₦airaland Forum

obaaderemi:
They are not trapped.awolowo fought 4 a referendum and the ilorin yorubas still voted to be part of north.It has become their problem.like i said earlier,it isn't an issue 4 this thread.

I am not aware of any referendum Awo organized for Ilorin people. Pls help me with a verified link to see it.

Let me agree it's true. What about the people of Kabba province? They have always been independent of Ilorin. Did they also participate in the referendum?
What about present day Kwara south people? Did they also participate? I can't believe that present day Kwara south and Kogi west people will vote to join the north. Ilorin (Kwara central) is quite believable though, due to how mixed they have become with Hausa-fulanis.

forgiveness:
How would you know all these things without the social media which was introduced and made available at an affordable price by Obasanjo?

Ghana, Togo, Benin etc were already using what we now call GSM 5 years before Obasanjo brought it.

North Korea never allowed such even till now and even our government then never wanted, to keep us in the dark like North Korea is doing to her citizens.

Banking system in Nigeria was nothing to write home about before Obasanjo brought Soludo to reform the banking sector.

Nigeria banks wasn't bankable and trustable.

We should commend him for those achievement.

Do you think Yaradua and Jonathan renovated the railway system?

I still remembered when I saw the Chinese fixing the railway tracks at Ibadan during the reign of Obasanjo.

Obasanjo laid the foundation Jonathan built on. Buhari is still using Obasanjo railway template.

American situation and Nigeria situation is different. No comparison.

Obasanjo did well to pay debts or get dept forgiveness.

So, banking sector and Telecommunication sector are not part of diversification of the economy?

Obasanjo encouraged the development of local weapons and war ships.

We know Obasanjo believed in democracy.

At least, he tried in some cases.

Same reply for u

Nowenuse:
Good analysis.
However, i never said that OBJ did absolutely nothing. My point is that GEJ achieved more than him (OBJ).

The reason why many of you see OBJ as a hero or a president worth commending is simply because Nigeria was practically dead (due to military rule) when it was handed over to OBJ. So all OBJ did was to join along the moving train of governance as was obtainnable in other democratic settings with simple steps like bringing in the telecommunication and banking industries. Of course, there was hardly a way these private investors would have been encouraged to invest in Nigeria with an unstable military led govt system.
So from a rational point of view, i can say that all OBJ did was to catch up with the developing world trend (in the telecomunication industry), and as for the banking industry, lets say ok, he enacted a policy which made the banking industry very stable and more efficient.
As for the economic buoyancy you are talking of, it's not as if OBJ made Nigeria the largest economy in Africa or he made our income per capital very high. It was not as if he took our exchange rate to dollar from where he met it to #50 per dollar.

Ask yourself, are these very meagre achievements really worth commendation for a presidency tenure of 8 years? To the extent that some of you are claiming that OBJ was Nigeria's best president? Jeeez!

Maduawuchukwu:
OBJ really tried but I understand where you are coming from bro. After OBJ's reign people tried to analyse his government and it was difficult because OBJ functioned like a bi-polar patient. He really tried in some areas and failed woefully in others but at the end of the day one can say he left Nigeria better than he met it.
You must understand that before Obj Nigeria was practically dead. We were not connected to the world either economically or even in other areas. Heck, we were still depending on letter writing to send messages. Something could happen today and you would here it in the next 3 days. There was no way investment could come into Nigeria that way.OBJ changed that.
Nigeria's banking industry was mere corporate Yahoo Yahoo. People would just set up banks with low capital base which would fail in the space of no time and people would lose their money. OBJ came and revolutionised the sector and made it Africa's largest. the thing don give Job tire.
Also the general economy was buoyant in OBJ's time.Inflation was down, Forex was stable and the middle class was created.
Also OBJ was a detribalized Nigerian in all his affairs.
OBJ's failures were in how he rigged elections blatantly without conscience, human life meant nothing to him as far as State honour was concerned eg Zaki Biam and Odi massacres, he was very corrupt and self-righteous and he did poorly In Infrastructure
At the end of the day OBJ can only be judged on the basis of his achievement and failures but he left behind a better Nigeria

Good analysis.
However, i never said that OBJ did absolutely nothing. My point is that GEJ achieved more than him (OBJ).

The reason why many of you see OBJ as a hero or a president worth commending is simply because Nigeria was practically dead (due to military rule) when it was handed over to OBJ. So all OBJ did was to join along the moving train of governance as was obtainnable in other democratic settings with simple steps like bringing in the telecommunication and banking industries. Of course, there was hardly a way these private investors would have been encouraged to invest in Nigeria with an unstable military led govt system.
So from a rational point of view, i can say that all OBJ did was to catch up with the developing world trend (in the telecomunication industry), and as for the banking industry, lets say ok, he enacted a policy which made the banking industry very stable and more efficient.
As for the economic buoyancy you are talking of, it's not as if OBJ made Nigeria the largest economy in Africa or he made our income per capital very high. It was not as if he took our exchange rate to dollar from where he met it to #50 per dollar.

Ask yourself, are these very meagre achievements really worth commendation for a presidency tenure of 8 years? To the extent that some of you are claiming that OBJ was Nigeria's best president? Jeeez!

Olu317:
Are you a realist or ideologist? How much was dollar equivalent to naira during OBJ in comparison to the two you mentioned? What did Yar'Adua do in his home state that has stood the test of time till today when he was a governor? And the youngest of them all, GEJ, did you know how much money he made during his tenure via corruption?


I would have posted a link on here to see how corrupt GEJ was but I wouldn't do such.

Let me not go further on this issue because it is digression from what this forum is meant to achieve.



Cheers

I am a realist. The huge difference in dollar exchange did not come with either GEJ or Yar'adua. It came with Buhari. Dollar exchange remained below #200 during GEj and Yar'adua's 8 yrs just like OBJ.

Just listen to yourself. Did Yar'adu become president in order to develop Katsina state?
OBJ sent the army to murder thousands of Nigerians in Odi, Bayelsa and Zaki Biam, Benue while Yar'adua did a lot to compensate and re-integrate the Niger delta militants. Electricity drastically improved during Yar'adua's time. All in just 2years.

GEJ was corrupt, was OBJ a saint?... Plzzzz

OBJ's achievement in 8 years cannot in any way compare GEJ's achievement in 6 years.

GEJ did all he could to fight illiteracy in Northern Nigeria through promotion of almajiri schools and girl child education.

GEJ ensured that every Nigerian state had a Federal university by establishing 9 new federal universities.

GEJ set up a national conference where all Nigerians could come out to discuss their grievances and proffer solutions to the way forward (what method of a united nation building could be more than this)?

GEJ completely revamped the railway sector from it's complete dillapidation since colonial era.

GEJ started the drastic diversification of the Nigerian economy through agriculture. During OBJ, everything was about crude oil and nothing else.

GEJ initiated and comissioned the building of a world class city (Centennary city) and world trade centre in Abuja.

GEJ supported the development of the Nigerian social and entertainment industry. Can you compare Nigerian entertainment industry during GEJ and OBJ's era??

How many more can i mention?

forgiveness:
Obasanjo achievements:
Telecommunications: this is one of the reasons you are using Internet, watching Manchester United, Chelsea and foreigner news, social media, Nairaland etc they too numerous.

Banking sector:
Gone are the days you put money under ya bed.
Gone are the days you carry bulk money from Onitsha to Lagos, Lagos to Onitsha, the reason for crimes along our Inter States roads.
Robbery has reduced on this roads. Thanks to the improved banking sector.

Railway infrastructures

Dept forgiveness

Allowed continuous democracy

Internet and Banking is something that was due. It developed almost synonymously almost all over Africa and other 3rd world nations at the same time.
So are we also going credit that achievement to the presidents of all 3rd world nations at the same time?
Are we also to thank OBJ or Buhari for bringing 4G network?... Plzzzz.

Allowed continous democracy? Are you for real? Was he supposed to take over power through military? You see the problem with we Africans. Things that are normal to other people, we count them as achievements. We celebrate mediocracy too much.

Abeg, which railway did OBJ develop? From which city to which city? Where were the trains? Not Until GEJ started developing and rebranding Nigerian railway system, everything we had about railway were the old trains and railways the colonial masters left for us.

A country being indebted is not the problem. USA owe large debts, but it is the world super power and still making progress.

Developmental achievements that make a country advance are things like
> Greater diversification of the economy
> Industrialization and Promotion of locally made goods and services
> Development of world class infrastructures
> Advanced improvement of the education, transportation and healthcare system e.t.c

Did OBJ do any of these?
I am so ashamed of we Nigerians for celebrating mediocracy as achievements. How can we progress with this kind of mindset for God's sake.

TayserMahiri:
Must be the reason.

Do you know that as of 2014, Kenya was just 25% urban according to a CIA factbook while Nigeria was 47% urban.
Both countries were urbanizing rapidly at a rate of 4% every year. What can you say about this?

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2212.html

fanficgirl:
Hahahaha abi, Nigerians don't know the meaning of aesthetics

Yes. We really do not. We are very average in that aspect.

TayserMahiri:
Trust me, most kenyans would mention Obasanjo if asked any Nigerian president.

Yes, that's because since we returned to democracy in 1999, he spent the longest time on seat (8 years).

Olu317:
Are you sure? A barrel of crude was struggling between 45$+ and 50$+ . Yet he paid all outstanding foreign debt. OBJ, may not have been loved by his kinsmen despite the fact that he met less 3billion$ when he was the President of Nigeria but he left the Federal Reserve of Nigeria with about 40billion$. Despite all the little anomaly and atrocity . He, even allowed telecommunications to reach a climax of liberalisation. Stop this hatred toward OBJ. I may not like the man but he helped southern Nigeria have access to becoming military personnel etc. There are too many to mention as his legacy.

OBJ wasted 8 years of our lives. Even GEJ 6 years was better than OBJ's 8 years.
OBJ did almost nothing on improving electricity, what did he do about diversifying our economy? Improving agriculture and industrialization? Allowing telecoms into Nigeria, is that an achievement?
Infact Yar'adua's 2 yrs of presidency was better than OBJ's 8 years. Someone that openly declared genocide on his people. Gosh!

MPSA:
Nigeria, nigeria How I view nigeria, Nigeria will always remain nigeria before my eyes No Giant, No nothing I don't even see brazil, china or india like other nairalanders , When I look at the picture of Nigeria Nigeria will always remain ''the Nigeria I know'', NOTHING ELSE

You're very silly

TayserMahiri:
Not to be mean but the overwhelming majority of countries would continue just fine in Africa. Look at chaotic Egypt and see things are just fine with the exception of Libya, whose problems have nothing to do with Egypt.

Of course it would affect many countries (west and central africa especially).
The population is very large. The economy of Africa will seriously shake. Nigeria is about one-quarter of the total economy (GDP) of Africa.

TayserMahiri:
Thanks mate, I am not a Naija expert and am glad to be here to learn, that guy just being mean! I thought the north was always backward, so when I hear they were handed power I couldn't help but smell foul play from the Britons. Good to know.

Exactly. We should be able to learn abt each other. These are what platforms like this are meant for.

I myself have learnt a lot about Kenya here. And seriously, i'd like to visit Kenya sometime in the future. I think Kenya has some fantastic tourism industry.
When it comes to tourism, quality of infrastructure and aesthetic appeal, Kenya is ahead of Nigeria.

fanficgirl:
Chai see bleach, but they are really pretty. The rich Northerners are the ones keeping the poor ones destitute and ignorant.

How did you know that they bleached? Their mother is a half caste. She is shuwa arab by tribe.

fanficgirl:
Chai see bleach, but they are really pretty. The rich Northerners are the ones keeping the poor ones destitute and ignorant.

Partially true. However the religious and traditional rulers are the main cause.
Southern elites never really begged southern masses to go to schools. Many southernerns just struggled to get educated on their own, cos they saw it as a way to a better life.
Many core-northernerns on the other hand think islamic schools should come first before western schools.

The colonial masters have a large part of the blame. Core-northernerns have been going to islamic schools and reading and writing arabic decades before the British came and this so much became entrenched and part of their culture.
The british used the indirect rule of govt during colonialism and never encouraged western education among northern masses. Infact the british promoted islamization and arabic learning and were ok as long as the northern leaders reported administratively in English.

These people (core northnerns) already had islamic education which was already part of their culture, the British never made them see the reason why they should drop islamic education and accept western education. So, be in their shoes, really, why should they?

Maduawuchukwu:
Lol. This na Indimi Children nah?

Hahaha. Are these Indimi's children too?

Educated core-northernerns would always be less religious and more westernized and many of them do not wear hijab.
A core northern woman has once been Miss Nigeria.

MtuMsuper:
A new surprise. And a big one too. Its almost like the way brazil excludes blacks and mulattos from the media, billboards and entertainment by trying to present it as a white country when the demographics​ show the exact opposite.

Very true. This annoys me a lot! Latin america is a place filled with beautiful black and brown people, but the media heavily isolates them, seeing them as too backwards and poorer.
This is why when you see the Brazillian football team and you see Brazilliam telemundos, you wonder if it is the same country. The black and brown people have managed to excel in sports and music only.
Well, i think the task lies in the hands of the black and brown brazillians. Black americans did not wait for the whites to drag them along into the media. They stood up for themselves.

Maduawuchukwu:
Yeah It's key. It is almost as if Northern Nigerian don't exist or are sub-humans to the Nigerian Media. This hardens up Northerners who otherwise would have been receptive. I live in the north and every time you meet a core-northerner he always goes over the top to show that he is just a normal everyday person. They always try to be over pleasant to negate the media's presentation of them as sub-humans and blood-thirsty. The North should be judged based on the parameter used for other Nigerian groups.

Exactly.
If you live with educated and rich core-northernerns, you will wonder if the ones you see as Boko haram are the same core-northernerns with these educated ones.
They are extremely kind, liberal and loving to a fault.

The media is centred in Lagos which is very far away from the north and dominated by southernerns. Even the few middlebelters who have managed to be famous in the media have to open up themselves to Southern attributes and styles before they succeed and are accepted.
Maybe as things centralize more in Abuja, there will be better integration.

Take a look at these women below, these are Kanuri muslim women from Maiduguri, the Borno (Boko haram state that you know). What is the difference btw them and the ones carrying bomb in their hijab??
EDUCATION AND WEALTH.

MrMaestro:
Well God bless you and I hope it happens sooner rather than later. Because the way things are going now, we won't make it to decades in the future

LoL. Of course we will make it.
This is why those of us who are educated, wealthy and tolerant need to canvass and promote education and poverty alleviation.
Those bad religious and political leaders who are always bent on dividing us with religion and ethnicity will not find poor and illiterate people to do their bidding if there are none.

Have you ever wondered why people in Maitama, Garki, Victoria island, Banana island e.t.c never have ethno-religious conflicts and clashes irrespective of how diverse those places are?
We must work hard to eradicate illiteracy and poverty together as a people.

fanficgirl:
What can we do to change this

There is nothing we can do about this than to keep on promoting education and socialization in Nigeria.

Yoruba and middlebelt muslims face heavy westernization threats almost as much as christians. As a younger and more united urban population emerges, these extremisms will gradually die down.

I also think we need to keep on including muslims in Nigerian media. The southern controlled media almost completely excludes muslims.

Maduawuchukwu:
Yeah, it is only a matter of time westernization will surely take over the Core-north. It has started already with Northerners taking part in Nollywood movies,shows listening to Naija music etc. In fact, by now the process should have been highly advanced but for Sani Yerima Shariah movement that slowed things down.

Exactly.
If not for that Sharia sweep. Core-north would have been one step ahead. Seriously, Zamfara state is really a problem to Nigeria, just see how the current governor is using religion to play with the minds of his people.

Many of their leaders who want to keep using islam to keep the masses in bondage are fully aware of the Westernization threat to their people and they are trying to fight it by all means.
Many of them are now ashamed because we keep on rubbing statistics to their face of how backward they are. Many northernerns are now migrating out of their states and their views of life is gradually changing.

fanficgirl:
True, Yorubas seem to side with core North the most

Many yoruba muslims and middlebelt muslims easily feel sympathetic towards Hausa-fulanis.
This is a problem which will always beset Southern/Middlebelt unity.

fanficgirl:
Ghana isn't one, a Twi is different from an Ashanti but they are less tribalistic than Nigerian

Ghanaians never practiced regionalism like us. Their cultural and linguistic differences are thinner compared to ours and these differences were never promoted by their founding fathers.

TayserMahiri:
These don't look like problems to be overcome soon mehn ! I am beginning to understand the scale of problems in your country now.

Well, we cannot be too pessimistic. Thank God for the social media which has faciliated better interraction.
Many educated core-northernerns are now beginning to see the reason why they must improve western education and alleviate poverty in their states. It is gradually growing.

What i think is happening is a cultural fusion. For instance, my own region of the north used to be very culturally different from the South too, but now the cultural gap is closing because the Southernerns who control the media and the economy are seriously influencing us, by the next generation and as urbanization increases, we would be almost culturally the same as the South. (Although this was probably easier because we have large christian populations and most of our muslims are moderate muslims compared to those in the core-north).
If you compare the adult literacy and youth literacy rates of core-northern Nigeria, you will see some improvement. Many northernerns are also migrating to the south and changing their views. The process will take decades, but it will surely happen.

Just30:
no the Asantes are not 50% . The Akans are about 60%

Are Asantes and Akan not same people?
Whatever the name is, i do know that an ethnic group in Ghana has an absolute majority population. This is non-existent in Nigeria.

obaaderemi:
@Nowenuse..was orkar's speech b4 the coup?No,sir.he gave that speech when he thought the coup was successful but they left a loophole which gen.razak took.thd rest is history.many yorubas supported that coup and about 7 yoruba officers were executed with him because everybody was tired of ibb.please don't tell me about orkar's coup.I didnt read about it online like many others.we got it fresh in 1990 and i have a feeling you did too.On gej,you said no southwest state gave him up to 1m votes.Well,he got 1.2m votes in lagos in2011 and won every yoruba state except osun despite the fact that they had ribadu as their own candidate.don't forget that was a time when most yoruba states voted out pdp.so,it wasn't about aligning with the north.the votes were against the pdp for its frivolity.But many middlebelters for many years had always considered themselves northerners,maybe you also do.I don't believe in the northcentral tag.i like 'middlebelt' better.There are things we shouldnt discuss on this thread,please.

Well, i agree with Olu317, let's leave bitter histories behind and limit the amount of things we discuss on this thread.

The bottomline is that the South needs to unite as one and tag the middlebelt along, if not the core-north will continue to mislead the country. Do you agree?

Just for the records, you said middlebelters identify as North, biko, were we the ones who colonized ourselves? Millions of yorubas in Kwara and Kogi also identify as North-central. We hate the name but what can we do about it? ....You yorubas are a majority group with so much influence and power, what are you guys doing about your people trapped in the North?
If majority groups cannot do anything about it, i wonder what minority groups will now do.

naijalander:
Please stick to Kenyan stuff cos your talking trash.

The British handed over to the Northerns cos they first met the North before the ever had dealings with the South, another reason is that the North at the time was considered more developed than the South because by the 18th Century most of the South was still largely unlettered whilst the North already had literary works from as early as 100 AD.

The North got the better end of post colonial deals because it had more man power in the defense industry. Do your readers h before you spew trash.

I think you were too harsh on TayserMahiri. He is not a Nigerian and does not know Nigerian history.

And truly yes, the North was more co-ordinated than the South when the British came. The northernerns were already reading and writing Arabic, travelling for Hajj in Saudia arabia and the Sokoto caliphate was conquering and islamizing many places under emirate rulership.

@Tayser Mahiri, i bet you don't know that probably if not for the colonial masters who came, many more parts of Nigeria and west/central africa would have been islamized by jihadists from Sokoto caliphate.
My own people (in the north-central) managed to resist islamization because we were on the mountains and had the upper advantage cos the jihadists who rode on horses could not climb the mountains with their horses.

I hope u can now grasp it all. Core-northern Nigerians are descendants of islamists and jihadists. And the demonic british people left them just like that because of ease of administrative convenience while they (british) looted us to Europe.

TayserMahiri:
I thought Obasanjo was the best leader Nigeria ever had?

LoL. I don't know what to reply u

Just30:
ethnicity is what is holding your country back and most of you are happy to indulge in it.
Ghana is not a country with only one majority group but we know what the national interest is and what is not?

But the Ashantis are 50% of Ghana. Is that not a majority? What is it called?

Prior to independence and even some years after independence, Nigeria practiced the regional system of govt where we never had a united parliament. Each region functioned almost 100% independently of each other and during this period, individual regions promoted their own ethnic and religious identities.
So what do you expect? Our country was founded on ethnic identity by the demonic colonialists.

Just30:
Ghana can decide not to accept refugees and you would be locked out.
You are talking as if it's not a matter of decision not accept

First of all, have you forgotten that ECOWAS is one? And there is a law that allows all West Africans all over the region in any country?

Apart from ECOWAS, no matter how tight your borders are, the population is too large for you to control.
Many of your own people would even be willing to smuggle Nigerians in for a bribe. You talk as if you are not a black man.
Many refugees may be armed too, terror groups would be flying all over. We don't pray for that, but your country is too small to withstand Nigeria's chaos.

Do you think Canada for instance can withstand USA's chaos?

Just30:
why don't you protest to put pressure on government, it get things done? In Ghana, there's this saying that politicians only listen when you protest.

fanficgirl:
The irony is my mum was just telling me about the firing squad in Ghana and how they cleared up their government. Nigerians can never do that we agreed.

Do you guys think Nigeria is like Ghana with only one majority group?
If such a thing is done in Nigeria it would instantly lead to a civil war. Infact something like that was what caused the Nigerian civil war of 1967.

For instance, now, a Hausa-fulani man is the president, if such a thing happens, the northernerns would instantly term it genocide against their people, and you don't need to be told the kind of ethno-religious war that will ensue. And as it stands, no sane Hausa-fulani man would want to do anything to destroy a Northern presidency when they finally got it after a long time.

Ethnic and religious sentiments will always make Nigerians never to come to a meeting point.

MtuMsuper:
Shame!!!
Okay, let me rephrase it this way : How can Nigeria claim to be one entity and yet operate different codes of law within the same polity?
So tell me now: if i am caught overspeeding on the highway , beat up a man , drink alcohol in my house, and play chinese music in my house , All in the same day ---- take me through who and what am likely to face to be punished for my misdemeanors and / or "crimes".

What are you talking about?

Don't you see how USA functions? Don't you know that Gay marriage is still illegal in some states in the US?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/13/us/states-same-sex-marriage-ban/

Different states have different laws in the USA.

Just30:
it won't cause any political or economic unrest in west Africa. Your country will just end up like Syria and west Africa will be faced with a migrant crisis like never before and most West African countries will not accept refugees. Just look around Nigeria, all the countries there are French speaking countries and we all know their kind. They would not accept even a 1000 Nigerian.

Your only hope will be Ghana and we all know Ghana has 5million Nigerians and won't be willing to accept even a million more.

My God. Are you so ignorant?

Do you know that as large as India is, they are terribly afraid for Pakistan to fail or go into chaos? India is almost 6 times the size of Pakistan but they know that a failed Pakistan would mean Chaos for them because they would not be able to cope with the human population disaster and terrorism that will criss the border.

How much more a tiny little Ghana with 6 times less the population of Nigeria. Nigeria's population is greater than all other countries in west africa put together.
If Nigeria fails, Ghana would not be able to withstand the population of refugees that will enter it. Your borders are not strong enough and no matter how you try to fortify them, the population pressure will just be too much and Nigerians will outnumber you in your own country.
Seems like you don't know what we are talking about here.