₦airaland Forum

^^ fair points BUT I wonder - ALL things being predetermined by God would be a licence to whatever we feel like since "its all settled whether I'm for heaven or condemnation".

Seems so "settled" to me

^^ You scared me there, 5solas. When I saw "epistles to the Romans", I wondered how I'd missed those words.

But these were Martin Luther's thoughts, bro and whist we all have respect for him and the role he played in getting the Bible into private hands, he still remains just man like us all.

It does sound nice and valuable and all that but I doubt it can be taken as Scripture. I'd still say lets keep our options open.

@biomes2001:

Do you remember Christ saying "The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath". Have you also sincerely considered the idea that Christ nailed the law to the cross? Whist it is true that the original sabbath was saturday, the fact that the Word says that Moses Law was a law of condemnation and was nailed to the cross should tell you something about Sabbath observation. I believe that under NT dispensation, EVERYDAY is a Sabbath to the Lord.

God rested on the seventh day (your sabbath) after creating Adam. Notice however that as long as Adam was sinless, there was no law (meaning no sabbath). The law of Moses came after sin came. It was a consequence of sin AND INCLUDED the Sabbath. Today, after Christ sacrifice, the idea is that we are restored to the Adamic status and so, day to day, night by night, we are Holy unto the Lord, not only saturdays.

If you wish we still hold on to Sabbaths, why just that? Why not also burnt offerings and women banished for days after monthly periods. Please re-consider your sabbath  issue and do not put yourself back under the curse of the law.

@Joagbaje/CE people:

Bros, I see your little altercation over what you call "WOFFER". Let me ask you this simply - being a WOFFER (as you say); do you think we take it to mean that everything you say is wrong? If your pastor (for example) says "God be Blessed", do you think we'll say he's wrong BECAUSE he's a WOFER. Please don't make a mountain of out nothing and stop behaving as though its a "us against them" thing. No one hates you. Its just that in some things, you guys go too far.

For Christians, you suprised me here - you're rejoicing that you found something over biomes2001. Not one single attempt to find/show truth from the Bible. Just a matter of "you abused my pastor" and now I have the chance to attack you too. Where is God in all of that? Abi chris"T" is THE ONE, not God?  This then is an example of what most complain about, not that they hate you.

^^^ Thanks Viaro. I hope Bishop Oyedepo Tudor ( )  too will sheathe his sword. Truth be said, Tudor has really shocked me these last few days with the depth and sincerity of his posts. Sincere concern for newbies in Christianity is quite rare and I could think of supposed MOGs even here on NL who should take example from Tudor.

Please, my Lord Bishop!

@Image123:

A simple question - Who is a better teacher? You (with your limited knowledge) or God Himself? Note that most teachers have proved themselves to be false and only self- serving. One last thing - why are you guys bothered about another's child. The New convert belongs to God; why not allow the Father expression to bring up His child as He wishes. The Holy Spirit is the teacher who brings into ALL truth. Wetin be una own?

@Toba:

Have you ever considered that some get 20 opportunities to "meet" God whist some seemingly never get even the one chance? I remember my bro-in-law telling me that Herbert Ogunde gave his life on his death bed and me wondering if that wasn't unfair due to some things I heard he'd done earlier in life especially as some victims went without such a "meet" with God?

Jesus said "those who the Father GAVE to Him". Would that not suggest some were not given and may not have the opportunity just for that reason (that they were not given)?

Everything our muslim and atheist friends here write that I am aware of I return to later and think through even when I quarrel over it - its the beauty of Christianity that we are not meant to find excuse for God but to test EVERY Spirit. Spirits include "understandings" - If then, we rethink such, is it wrong that we consider that maybe we are as the Bible says "a Chosen People" and then examine ALL possible meanings of that phrase?

Like Viaro says above, the issue is "are these things set in stone?" which would mean this is all just a replay and we're as pre-programmed robots. And 5solas brings even more controversy when he rightly points out that BOTH God's Will/Sovereignity and man's Responsibility are taught by scripture.

Which brings me again to priorities - are there varying priorities for issues whereby though we may never be certain of which is ours and which God's, we have a situation where some things are "rigidly" set in stone and others loosely so. the rigid would belong to God 100% and the loose man to an extent we cannot quantify.

^^^ My point exactly. His foreknowledge is certain. However, my question/query arises on the issue of priorities - does everything have the same priority level or are some things left to us with just an overview of say like, a final result without details being set in stone?

^^ I wonder the same and so used [1] confusing [2] our present part knowledge to acknowledge same.

The issue of salvation though is something I think I'd like to believe is off such paramount concern that I doubt God would leave it to "chance". Football results are another matter, I hope

time bound - priceless qualification and the misunderstanding of which is a source of a lot of confusion. And we all are confused

Being outside of time, I sincerely believe there's a lot of God's ways we can't know (for now)

^^^ I like your Jacob/Esau analogy. But it brings something to mind - Which came first, God's Word on who would be the greater or the "manifestation/answer"? Thats what I call pre-destined.

Another way you could answer this is - at creation, Inesqor, which came first [1] "Let there be Light" OR [2] Light?

God SPEAKS things into existence, Brother, not looks ahead to see which will win.

Tudór:
PS: this stands true for those genuine new converts who want to know and love god and not those like we have in majority today who want god to solve all their life problems. Those ones can do without personal relationship, they prefer it business like. we see every month, I pay my taxtithe, you bless me. end of deal.

This guy won't kill me today with laughter.  

And this should have come under the heretic thread as part of the effects on society and the disappointments caused by MOG "doctrines".

I think this is a true worry what with the bombardment from within and without the individual in his search for "God" especially when he's just getting on his feet. The self serving MOGs cause disaster with their amazing repertoire of "The Lord says" etc. But peace, Tudor, please! I believe you're not the first person to face such and you just might be suprised that now you think all hope of connection is lost is when God will approach you.

The primary basis of approaching God is simply prayer - communicating with someone usually means being with that person and I think God's case is not different. The closer/more extensive your visits to Him, the better! Such mind-rubbing (being in His presence) will usually pass some ideas of God to the individual - unfortunately, (in my experience) such ideas are usually NOT what our MOGs wish we have as these ideas tend to make individuals who are not easily swayed by excitement on the pulpit (you can't leave God's presence then be excited by man's presence). The bombardment (opposition to such) of society against the honest seeker of God usually has an impatient person becoming pressured, very irritable and wondering why God is allowing so much "persecution" just cos they want His truth. Most times, we walk away from God because the pressure gets to us.

I'm may be wrong but I suspect this happened to you, Tudor. It did to me too as reading you is akin to remembering how it was for me then. I got so mad I attempted cursing God, went into the Occult and even picked up habits I detested just so both God and His "dudes" would stay far from me. Anytime I saw my pastor approaching my place, I lit a cigarette and of course, they had ammunition to say I had derailed only BECAUSE I DIDN'T LISTEN TO THEM.  It took over a decade before a suprise occurence brought me back and since then, I have become an extremely individualistic believer. My posts here will show I can be abrasive and my wrath is mainly felt by these fake self serving criminals who use the name of God to pervert justice.

I think God uses such to strengthen us and is building an army that has experience of the battle from within, not just "gist".

Just as I posted the above, I saw your newer response

Truth is I believe in personal culpability, still, it was in the context we discussed that I said what i did. If you look at the "Heretic teachings and their effect etc" thread, you will see me sing a new song. People can be deceived BUT Christianity says its a personal responsibility that we learn truth. I will not blame a man who is duped totally but neither will I totally absolve him of guilt. Its like what you wrote above, bro - people want QUOTE "business like. we see every month, I pay my taxtithe, you bless me.end of deal" UNQUOTE. That opens them up to the scam. So whist they are not responsible for the scam, their greed brought it on. To illustrate Tudor, why don't you pay tithe considering the BS you too (like them) have heard?

@Inesqor:

Your post then suggests that it is God that determines destiny. Brazil practices, trains etc and is the best but Serbia wins because as you have rightly said, God intervenes (rightly as you've said: more often than we think or know).

I remember Proverbs "the lot is cast into the lap, but the whole disposing thereof is of the Lord" and the story of Pharaoh's sturbonness being attributed to God's intervention. How then does a man believe he is responsible for what obtains?

Conversely though, and this is (to me) confusing comes the idea that we have freewill. The way most intepret this is that man chooses to do wrong as the human "jesus" amongst us has just said, whist God chooses to do right. Yet God refuses to define Himself except as HIMSELF (not good or bad, fair or not, etc) Consider the idea that God foreordained some as sons etc which does not involve their will. Those not foreordained; can they become sons?

@Inesqor:

Some disagreement comes to mind instantly.

Races are usually won by the fastest. They are the ones who key into your laws of operation on earth. But sometimes they do not win.
Battle is usually also to the strong - would you normally expect Israel to have won the 6 day war?
Favor usually is to the learned who knows the "principles" to receiving favor and being self-serving, would utilize such.

I remember walking into a storeroom 2 years back in which there was a 7+ foot Spitting Cobra. It just lay there not reacting and I had to remind myself (2ce) that I would be very stupid to touch it since I was dazed that it didn't react. When (shaking like a leaf) I went back a few minutes later with 2 chaps weilding machetes, it changed into one of the most fearsome things I ever saw. That was not normal cos they're more aware than we are.

The reality of life shows often that very often, things happen "against" the grain and I suspect God does the "miracle" thing more often than we know. However He usually masks it and so we say luck.

^^ I think what Tudor is saying is that a "new" convert (having established a relationship) is flailing about helplessly not knowing what to do. My simple answer would be prayer and prayer and prayer but most of us don't even know how to pray. Biblical references for such "newbies" that will help create an understanding of prayer and SELF study is likely what Tudor wants provided.

BTW, Viaro, are you trying to force my prophecy of Prophet Pastor (Dr) Bishop (that most in support of his mentor Oyedepo) Tudor to come to pass sharpish? Cos you seem to be trying to force him to start teaching today?

Woli Tudor, oya, over to you

Since I believed, the following has stuck in my mind and when I saw Inesqor's statement "I do not believe in lcuk", it came back

Eccl 9:11 -"I have seen something else under the sun: The race is not to the swift or the battle to the strong. Nor does food come to the wise or wealth to the brilliant or favor to the learned; but time and chance happen to them all"

I believe most of us have had experiences that made us feel there was something out there controlling issues to our favor and atimes disfavor (which many later found out to again be favor). We said "we were lucky". I have heard prophecies that came to pass even though it seemed like the person(s) involved fught against the fulfillment.

Hoe does one explain the above in terms of "luck" and "destiny"?

Interestingly and this is not in a bid to "please" Tudor, I think what he has said here would likely be of paramount importance to a new believer FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF A MATURED BELIEVER WHO FEARS (CONSIDERING THE PRE-PONDERANCE OF FALSE TEACHINGS OUT THERE).

What I mean is that whist the new believer may not realise it, He it is that is at greatest risk since a bad foundation will likely not be easy to correct. Heliping him strengthen his relationship past where its easy to derail him may just be really helpful.

[size=4pt]This Tudor chap always suprises me - I wonder if he won't end up a pastor. Just that if you annoy him,  na die. Imagine a machine-gun mounted on a pulpit[/size]

But what matters is that this thread continues, I guess, with any and likely all of the points raised above

^^ Cat still got your tongue? Brain freeze?

Forgive me but who's the dude? I know I've seen him before but cannot for the life of me remember his name.

And you didn't answer my question - you fit drive? or you're not old enough to have a licence? Or you're hiding from police and efcc somewhere in the creeks of warri so can't do what I asked?

Chei, this guy is THE icing on NLs cake

@Tudor: please forgive all of us! Please

I got a friend to help buy a cheap truck in the US. I need to have it driven or trucked to New Jersey from California where shipping is too expensive. Do you know how to drive? If yes, what would you charge to drive it (2003 F150) to NJ port?

^^^ and we'll continue showing you up as the slowpoke retarded ignorant piece of anal material you are.

What you call big grammar, btw, is regular english for educated folks. Only yahoo boys like you find slang terminology to be apt for communication. It shows your lack of mental capability when you need a dictionary to read regular english.

baby idiots grow up to be adult idiots. Just don't make the mistake of procreation like your parents did (even though theirs was mistaken)

child, this is getting really boring. you show no sense or imagination and very little vocabulary. Your vituperations towards God are not a bother to me knowing you likely don't have respect for your father (do you even know your father or did even your mam?) and I'm not God so why should it pain me? My grouse was you insulting belief systems not the object believed.

Which gives you new work - find a means of insulting "belief systems". Too tough for your overworked brain, ehn? What you ought do is hang upside down 20 hours daily. The oxygen rush "may" enhance your brain capability.

Since you've bored me by not providing a mental challenge, I'm taking a break from you - but will be watching over your shoulder

You've run out of words and now seek pictures? Soon it'll be tears abi they're already dropping? God's Angels must be laughing at a dunce who can't face a chap (who's just playing) yet wants to face God.

Told you from the onset - what you need is a woman (sorry I forgot no one will have your 14 inch long nose hair and scaly face )

No work on sunday, abi? Sure you'll be able to afford lunch after spending all your cash in the cafe?

BTW, I like your e-thug picture. Reminds me of a warri wanna be called mudley313. soon though, guy'll be in tears in hunger and frustration

@Jenwitemi:

The issue of eternal torture is one that has always fascinated me. I too like you, wondered at the idea. But does the Bible speak of it as a place of eternal torture? I think NOT. I do not claim to "know" but am aware that scripture speaks of death in hell. How does that then translate into eternal torture which would require existence to continue?

I think our private interpretations have brought a lot of error into christendom. Whatever though, good ideas here.

How I finish your "works" is "bad" entertainers will be "retired" whist the better ones would be allowed to continue in a new dispensation

@Inesqor:

You know me, friend! I cannot handle a "travesty of existence" like this ignorant dodo throwing insults at his betters. The idea is fun - so he knows he lacks the mental capability to sustain a true insult match and that if you can dish it, you also needs must be able to take it. My selfish reason is that it makes me laugh. I've paid my dues most every way in life and caanot imagine what would make me whimper again. Has this cat?  

@Mad_Max:

Seems you're planning to learn the definition of self-righteousness first-hand. Arguing with "Dim-Degbu" is like trying to open a bank vault by beating one's head against the door. He highlights "watch your mouth" as an expletive! He even says typing the word "blaspheme" is an expletive. When I say "Where's the seniority in that aside your asinine grovelling for Naira's sake", he says that is an expletive. But He refuses to see Joagbaje calling himself and Chris Oyakilome "Christ" as an insult to God.

So they insult God and its fine but when I take them to task, I'm "expletive and he needs to support God them It tells you what he serves!

Those beautiful "good trees" that exalts themselves to be god and makes God to be their contemporary when they say "God uses faith and so all they need is the same faith". Their fruit are the fraudsters and the love-peddlers we see with the Kabbashers and the ROR reading jeri-curlers who support man against God's Word. But Man-Degbu wants the support of man (maybe they'll give him a portion of tithes) so he supports them.

So easily - show me once when I said Jesus lied or used foul language. Or you're the liar!

The "style" of Jesus is quite simple and obvious when you read the Bible not ROR etc. Everytime He spoke to the laity, He spoke with love, quietly, teaching, relaxed. HOWEVER, when it came to the so-called "teachers", He reserved harsh words for them and usually spoke impatiently knowing their motive was self-gain". That is what I wrote and that is what I mean. Where I said He lied or used expletives, PLEASE SHOW! But you won't cos you can't cos I NEVER DID! Which makes you a liar, thief and a pretender!

Don't add spoil-sport to your stupidity - of course, I'll reply. I'm bored and practising with a slowpoke comes with NO mental challenge. This is like shooting fish in a barrel. No, its like being somewhere near a barrel for ease . Its good therapy for letting off steam.

Its you that needs succour from me. All you need is to beg God to save you from me and I'll let you be

Don't shake too hard. Those meagre brains may fall out through an ear

^^ Actually, what I meant was that you could give scripture references for "Anger" much as you gave for "the prophecy pointing to Christs' showing". One like myself would likely see another side (and scriptural references to support my position). I would likely then start off a thread presenting my own perspective, not argue here. It would be on that thread that arguments/opinions would come in

Your thread, in effect, presents a motivation for discussions on multiple issues

@Tudor:   

Are you sure, Bro, that your anger is not coming from the days of Inesqor being male/female and your anger at not being answered then? 

Whist I would agree with you in ENTIRETY normally, this thread does something none else does - it refuses to intepret Scripture. All Inesqor does is say "read about the prophecy pointing to Jesus in Is 53" etc. He then allows the reader to make their personal conclusions. Thats not opinionated but factual. It is also fair to all concerned.

@Inesqor:

Child threads will surely arise as time goes on which WILL discuss personal feelings about issues here. My only suggestion would be to start off with more controversial issues so this thread does not become boring. Issues like Salvation and the 2 laws, tithes, holiness, anger in Christianity (me, I need 20 courses on THAT especially concerning reacting ) etc will bring out the best of us.

hahahahehehe. clap for yourself, US resident Some of s visit for recreation and are not engaged as illegals.

@Jenwitemi:

Lovely thoughts. Reading thru your posts, I would say you'd "behave" OR make things pretty much as exists right now. Have you been studying God and putting yoursel fin His shoes?

^^^ To you, NO! But then, you're a slovenly slobbering retard and deluded too, ain't it? So you don't count And your ancestry would give their souls to have links to my family, ebi olokada

@Mudley313:

I think Bastage was just humoring you, trying to save you from further ridicule and save us all from your moronic presence. Your pathetic attempt to reason back with him is like a worm-maggot calling out to a Man "notice me, please notice me".

You only want to catch fun so why do you get angry? Do WE seem angry when we jibe at you? Do we address others such-like with the consistence we do you? Seems funny when everyone ridicules just the one person, isn't it, especially when they are civil and mature with others? And your idea of fun is insulting the belief system of 2 Billion people each and every one of whom has more brains than you do and better communication skills? Even a baby's cries make more sense than your "speech"! But what do I expect from a chap who does 14 hours daily labouring in a biscuit making factory owned by Lebanese task-masters and then spends the next 8 hours at a cybercafe - you ought be angry but it wasn't God that made your life the misery it is.

All you had to have done was read, when in high school, rather than contracting the syphilis that has your brain mirroring Idi Amins today. Smoking pawpaw leaves with MJ, drinking cheap spirits and the love-peddlers you favoured has brought you to this point. Be angry at them.

Pray to God for help and He'll send a solution. In the meantime and as "Bastage" said - Neither atheist, agnostic or fundamentalist sees any sense in your posts

Every one of Muddy-boys posts contain the word 'poverty' and "destitute". Seems you have a fixture with lack. And for someone who comes around only in the middle of the night, you sure seem like one to haunt "cafes".

Your repeated attempts to bring "Christ" into the issue make me laugh. Use sensible ridicule, child and always always stand against your contemporaries, not your seniors. Now, before I believed, I was human and cannot remember where I am asked to stop being human because I believe. If this were a real life confrontation, it would have ended long ago - you'd be tied up by my boys and put inside the trunk of a car to re-consider your life for maybe 7 days without food or water. So when you keep saying christ-like, you don't know and how I wish you did. I am a human believer with human foibles (need a dictionary?) and the right to express anger with idiots. Jesus whipped people, if you forgot. And here, your bottom is being shown a koboko (though verbally) and we can see evidence of your wailing.

My writings to you are informed by the shallowness of your life and thoughts - you say I'm hypocritical, NOT Christ-like because I do not sit quietly allowing you insult God. Yet you defend your okada-rider rapist father. You say I "rant" when you combine multiple languages and bad grammar in spewing out "abuse" at all and sundry. Do you think your moronic conduct is the type the celebrated Atheists on this forum got known by? They read, studied and came up with information that sincerely, atimes shocks me. If then I have not agreement for their beliefs, I needs MUST respect minds that can bring out such powerful arguments. Compare them, to "Mudley313" - childish, insultive, idiotic, snot-nosed, incoherent, half-educated, intellectually lacking YET hoping for recognition! Maybe among your other yahoo confederates, boy, at the cybercafes you get to at 10pm and leave at 6am. And I know you sign in for an hour or so day-time to see if any mugu replied so you'll be quick to point out day time responses. But a look at your profile shows when you browse. Or well, maybe its after you're off work from the lebanese factory where you're a labourer and do 14 hours daily (6m - 8pm)

Its fun using such as you for target practise when I'm not busy, boy. Its a distraction from more serious matters. But you might just "overload" seeing as your days are now spent waiting and studying slangs to use to "attempt" riling me (a dream that won't materialize). It wouldn't do for you to blow a gasket and get fired by your lebanese master or to abuse your potential mugu thinking its "nuclearboy" you're writing to.

Salutee