₦airaland Forum

Sorry to butt in, NEAREST, but you did not read what he wrote. He FIRST entered a pentecostal church 30 years ago, NOT THAT he entered last 30 years ago.

There is ONE question you needs must answer first, DeepSight and I hope you realise it is only the deepest respect for you and your intellect that makes me address you thus! My posts will show I have no patience for vacuous minds and I am sincere when I say you are not one of such.

Do you come into this thread with your mind already made up and having nothing but the intellectual respect you needs must give us for writing "passable" english OR would you truly be willing to "listen" AND "consider"? You have put me on the spot before with "Nuclearboy dispels Deepsights misgivings" or something like that where the instant we commenced, you showed that you were in it for the fun of seeking ridicule. NL reveberates with the echoes of Viaro versus DeepSight and I know Inesqor suffered your "wrath" too only because he subscribes to our belief. 

Why then would you expect that any of us (Christian) speak honest with you expecting a tactic of attempted ridicule? I know Viaro (and myself) in our turn tried to ridicule you in return to show how it feels but lets leave all that aside. Are you willing to listen to another "adult's" beliefs and not try make such out to seem idiotic? Remember that such attempts usually turn out as "me too can call you names"

BTW, I do not think any person on this forum with brains in his head will despise your mind - such scorn is better left for such as , AND ,  AND ,  ,  AND . , AND ,  ,    AND  , 

@Gary:

Watch out for pro-tithing posts by posters with single or double digit posts to their credit. When they contain little more than just a yes yes, its to throw off the scent from the "known" identity of the posters. They are meant to portray varied and substantial support but usually mean the opposite - a clutching desperation based on dwindling revenue from fleecing the gullible

Have got a new notepad to start taking notes.

You say I don't get it when its you not getting it.

[1] 4 kings came against 5 kings and prevailed. Everything they took from the 5 kings including Lot and his possessions were "Spoils of War" for those 4 kings who won

[2] Abram went to war against those 4 kings and prevailed. EVERYTHING he won from them (whether those things originally belonged to them or belonged to the five kings or were Lot and his stuff) were his "spoils of war" OR "his winnings".

However, Abram did not go to war for conquest but just to rescue his cousin Lot. FOR THAT REASON, he had renounced the "spoils" even before going to war as he told the king of sodom. Legally, EVERYTHING he won belonged to him (including LOT and goods). To clarify tis for you, the Bible point blank tells you that the King of Sodom recognised this fact and begged Abram to please give him the people wist keeping the goods. That statement alone tells you that the belief was that Abram owned everything. I do not know what you are arguing here, friend, since all this is in the Bible and is very clear! Abram owned ALL, gave a tenth of ALL and renounced what was due to him as victor and owner of the Spoils of war.

Thats what the Bible says. Purpose of engagement does not negate the fact that the Bible says all belonged to Abram by rights or the fact that he rejected them returning them to the original owners less what they ate and the share of his companions

@Joagbaje:

What would nuclear and oshob need it for - have you forgotten its you that wants tithes and to be unquestioned (god of this world)?

Who no get leg dey play soccer?

Sad you didn't get my point about the patronage - its what made Kunle and Zikky come at you cos you sounded (not that you felt) superior. Me, I don't mind.

LOT and his goods under the rules of engagement were "Spoils of war" being won from the 4 kings. However, Abram didn't treat them as such

You are MAINLY right, DeepSight. Still, there is the issue of maturity, background, intelligence etc. I remember a young woman recounting a very funny story of how after being duped using the "You've won a Plasma TV from Glo" format, she went and sat at their office for hours waiting for the "head manager" to present her prize. She actually was convinced to wear Glo colors and bring her 2 sons (also Glo-ooooed up) for supposed ceremony only to learn she'd been hoodwinked.

True, I thought her a bit daft but later realised it was more of hopeful than daft. And this is RELIGION where you question with the fear of eternal damnation - just read the comments human beings pass here when the issue of men of God is concerned. "fear", "horror", "damnation", "fiery fire gnawing at your innermost parts" is the litany and these are people exposed to the Internet. What would you expect of the person who never saw a computer?

It is OBVIOUS to me and you that man must task himself but its easier said than done.

KunleOshob:
@poster
I am certain joeagbaje, olaadegbu, tonye-tithe and image123 would be contacting you shortly.

What if Joagbaje uses "asking without refusal" and one of his mugus uses "fortification against evil forces"? Which one will win?

@Image123:

Friend,

You are in error gramatically and otherwise.

1st, I never said Abram gave tithes of ALL. The Bible (Gen 14:20) SAID SO! So I'll take it you're saying God doesn't know what He is saying.

2nd, any dictionary will inform you what spoils of war means -

valuables taken by violence (especially in war); "to the victor belong the spoils of the enemy"
http://www.wordreference.com/definition/spoil
Synonyms are: boot, booty, loot, pillage, prize money, prize of war, scalp, trophy, trophy of war, war booty, war trophy.
Usually they call them "spoils of war" instead.

A looser definition would be "basically what (tangible objects usually) the winning side keeps from the losing side"

So when you say spoils are not recovered goods, I don't get what you are saying - LOT was captured and became a spoil of war for the 4 kings. He was captured back by Abram and was then a spoil of war for Abram BUT Abram refused to see him as such.

BTW, do not be patronizing in your speech. All this "you're coming up" sounds like you're talking to someone you feel is retarded

Oladegbu:

I humor you by responding to you. You ARE a liar else show where I said Jesus used "foul" language.

A liar steals. A thief kills. A killer is not headed for Joy. The Pharisees believed (just like you, their son) that they were defending God from Jesus.

Liar, show where I said Jesus told a lie or used foul language. Reprobate mind!

^^^ Lovely. Just lovely. Wish could see you and kiss you

@Mudley dear (oh, how you wish it was a broad writing that ehn ) :

Told you you're retarded. So when your mam got pregnant, your dad used a condom right? Haven't you now shown that you were the mistake I wondered at? And at the same time proved you're in heat and unable to do anything about it cos only a child would write what you did about conception.

Deprived Virgin baby, looking for a roll in the hay, angry at the world, flailing out at everyone! Its not God's fault, boy. Humble yourself, get educated, shave your back, descale your face, have your teeth cleaned and shave your nostrils - then maybe, just maybe, you'll find an old diseased who.re ready to take you on and calm your boiling blood. But we'll miss you O, cos she'll take your yearly allowance for cyber-cafes before allowing you which means bye bye to mud & company from NL

Mudley313:
you no-life-having online wanna-be pseudo-intellectual. incase your pea-sized brain dont know, this is an internet forum not a college thesis paper and thus i'd type however the hell i wanna. sorry i'm not like your sick pathetic self who indulges in back and forth banters with faceless people on the internet trying to proove how intellectually challenged your lame azz is. i guess you go out to brag to your friends how e-intellectual you are, that is if you have any real life friends. log-off, go out and do something productive, there's a lot going on offline. go watch the world cup or something. deluded douchbag. ewww. . .

shake my head @ this imb.ecile. u forgot to include your imaginary daily schedule to your post of how you need to catch a flight for your imaginary phd programme. and lmao @ cyber cafe. you think everyone is like your hungry azz browsing in cyber cafes. na really "they begin to say yes sir/yes ma". you're the type of broke irritating no do wells who solicit for pennies whenever one visits naija. olodo-rapata

More half-literate vituperation from a retarded cybercafe addict! My understanding is that one spermatozoa wins the race to fertilization; seeing as you were the fastest, that must have been some sick pedigree. Even at that, its a wonder how you didn't end a blood clot. What a mistake. I guess you were the one God allowed to come to show the rest of this generation how lucky we are. 2 left legged skunk!

Keep on with your asinine vocabulary which doesn't suprise me seeing as your greatest ambition is to watch the world cup. Thug, omo adedibu, insolent mongrel. I'm sure the hair that grows out of your nostrils connects to your beard. (see didinrin looking for a mirror to confirm ) Better go submit yourself to a laboratory for checks so they tell you what species you are. Then go look for work as a man friday (the height of your intellectual prowess)

Interesting conversation and I'm glad I didn't jump in as I wanted just after post#78. The beliefs of both of you will likely not have the following in focus. Its more peculiar to the "supposed" Christian and brings a new perspective. I hope the Christians amongst us will throw more light on the below and correct me where I'm wrong.

There have been two laws.
[1] That of Moses which entailed Works. The Bible establishes it as perfect. Rom 3:21-31.
[2] But no man can keep it honestly which would mean Moses law damns all “By the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight , ” Rom 3:20 and Gal 2:16. Paul infact further asserts it is evident that “no one is justified by the Law before God” Gal 3:11. That is why he calls the ministry that came through Moses (the Law) “the ministry of death” - even “the ministry of condemnation” 2 Cor 3:7,9.
[3] Paul also sees this Law as extremely valuable for the reason that “Through the Law comes the knowledge of sin” Rom 3:20. AND “I would not have come to know sin except through the Law” Rom 7:7.

If one has no concept of personal sin, one has no concept of a need to be saved from it!

This is a very important statement - worthy of deep, reflective thought. If a person lacks understanding of personal sin - and certain accountability before God - the message of the cross is foolishness. “Therefore, the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith” Gal 3:24. This is how the Law is used lawfully - it is a tutor to show us we are in trouble with God, and then points us to The Solution. While the Law does not have the ability to make us right with God, it is an invaluable tool in leading us to what (Who) can. The work Jesus performed on the cross is the only action that can pay for our violations of God - not some doomed attempt at Law keeping.

That brings us the the second law - the law of Grace under Christ Jesus.

But we are discussing tithes, not salvation and my point here is this - Paul wrote to the Galatians, “For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse: for it is written, ‘Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the Law to perform them’” Deut 27:26 and Gal 3:10. The tithe is clearly one of “the works of the Law.”

Once you put yourself under the law in one issue, you are under the law in all. “For whoever keeps the whole Law, and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all” (Ja 2:10). For He who said "do not kill" also said "do not lie" (in effect). "Tithing" then, as a duty, brings its proponent UNDER THE LAW being one of the works of the law.

This is a problem for a Christian "hoping" to live under Grace yet insisting on being under this one law. And it is why DeepSight is maybe absolutely right. Excuses cannot be given for the Christian who is told "My people die for lack of knowledge, but because you have rejected knowledge, I too will reject you". AND how do we get knowledge? "Seek ye out the book of the Lord, and read, and understand, for therein is life"

The Christian who spends their time reading commentaries on the Bible rather than the Bible itself is in search of condemnation. The word DeepSight used that got me was "CHAMPION". I believe this is what we are called to be as humans and especially as Christians: leaders of the pack, individualists creating waves, bending nature to our desires etc. But the average human today has a herd mentality and follows blindly. Such will likely suffer for his folly; how, no idea. I suspect though that the stories we hear of repeated falls may have something to do with this issue. The religious system however, does not care for its members. Theirs is a simple mantra "Just bring cash".

^^^ Olodo, what I said is above - Jesus called such as you HYPOCRITES! Where did you find me saying He used "fowl" language (BTW, the spelling is foul). Where's the lie against Jesus? I told you - what you do is try to say you are supporting God just as your fathers (Pharisee and Sadduccess) did and what are you doing here? PROVING ME RIGHT You're the one who's lying if you don't show my lie against Jesus and where I said Jesus used dirty language.

And then you attempt even more guile by turning the issue of tithe "emotional".

Anyway, please O - show where I said Jesus used "fowl" language. And "goat" and "rabbit" and "donkey" language too. Ode!

^^^ Yes, Toba, other Atheists have noticed his unparalleled stupidity and thats why they keep away from anything that has him involved - no one likes to associate with a loser and this mudley313 guy is the greatest loser this forum has come across. Imagine Bastage's post above - without bothering to deepl study Mudleys' rubbish, he found 3 mistakes. This is a human to consider? Atimes I wonder how 2 people can come together and actually bring forth something as idiotic as this - the dude should have been born a donkey. He has the mental capability of a dead flower.

SLOWPOKE.

Your vocabulary is limited to "slangs" found on the web and in childish high school gangs - "blow off", "fuc-king", "sh.t", etc

Dullard bullet ko, full metal jacket ni. Celebrated slowpoke!

@Bastage:

The dude has no life, no ambition and nothing to look forward to. He blames God and is looking (crying?) for attention. I compare him to a young male elephant on heat who can't find a partner. They're known to pull down trees then attempt to mount them. But it will pass and he'll be restored to his natural self without the anger - a slow retarded self-servicer who haunts cyber-cafes in search of what to do.

^^^ First time (to me): BRILLIANT ANSWER. You don start to read Bible O

^^^ I know you said so. But my meat is too tough for milk teeth ( ) like yours.

^^^ Are you sure his name was "James". I think it was likely "Joagbaje"

Roast moi? That'd be the day, dear boy! Such would require a focused mind, a brain and a communication skill you cannot fathom.

1st, my supposed "insanity" cannot be compared to the obvious frustrations in your life that have you going around showing your mental virginity, belligerence and nastiness in childish posts. Seems to me you're hoping the "heavy-weights" who know what they are saying when they attack religion, will come to your aid. Sad (for you) seeing as they've put you on the scales, found a single digit IQ and prefer to walk away. NL has seen some really intelligent Atheists and dude, they wouldn't be caught breathing the same air you do (if you actually use oxygen rather than the carbon-dioxide I suspect seeing you have the brain of an Iroko tree)

Go grow up (somplace inside a waste system) and read/reflect on the emptiness of your existence. That will put you in the position where even when you do not agree with another man's belief, you will avoid trying to ridicule such. You ARE a toy gun, dude, in a 4 year old's hands - totally without effect. Looking in a mirror will bring tears to your eyes.

Roast me! I laugh in morse code

^^^ Been awhile I found agreement with you, DeepSight. I remember those days when everything you said was like music and law to me before you turned devil's advocate and went AWOL. Well, I guess you need must practise law even here.

With your above, I agree 100%. However, it is for the initial audience that I used the word Christian else he'd see it a travesty. Knowing his beliefs, I'm sure you understand

@Image:

Abram went after them and brought back three "spoils". [1] What they captured from the five kings [2] What was their own (at the battlefront) [3] Lot and Lots' stuff.

He gave Melchizedek a tenth of ALL. Thats what the Bible says. He did not touch Lot and property i.e. they got everything they originally owned back. He then (in the narrative refuses to touch anything but the share of his companions) and returns the rest back to the original owners.

What you are saying is that the spoils were [2] above i.e. the property (from time) of the kings he fought with. I understand and agree he took what belonged to them. But what proportion was this and why is it not mentioned if weighty in the equation. Do you know any military chaps? Ask them what they take to war - arms and meagre supplies. The bulk (if not totality) of the spoils were those originally owned by LOT and the five kings that were conquered before Abram stepped in.

@mba emeka:

Yes, you have the life of God in you. And His Spirit quickens and strengthens you. Christians all do. But it doesn't make us "Gods"

^^^ Tell you what, the solution to all this "turenchi" is rather simple.

Pay a visit past deaths door and when you get out there, ask why God is so bothered about your particularly miserable existence that He keeps following you around pleading for your acknowledgement of him. Told you once, you remind of a rogue elephant in estress. Too much anger

Abi the real truth is you feel ignored by God, want a "daddy" and are subconsciously seeking a "daddy" on NL? Olabowale would have suited your intellect and twould have been really nice to see you do your ablutions then pray on Lagos-Ibadan

@ Olaadegbu:

Dim-D:

I follow the style of Jesus and call hypocrites hypocrites but resort to love when discussing with innocent people. Chaps here are mainly reasonable people though gullible. Did you ever notice how Jesus related with such? He loved them, fed them, taught them, healed them etc. They, He called His people.

With your type, (hypocrites who want the adulation of men and to be seen as leaders, who want the high places and go about screaming "I am a priest",) do you recall what names/terms Jesus used? -? hypocrites, white washed sepulchers (which means a grave cleaned on the outside but rotting and full of maggots inside), Self-righteous, saying they fight for God when their God is their tummies etc!

The Bible says todays priesthood is after the order of Melchizedek, not the levitical order. Who did Melchizedek pay tithes to if he's our example and why didn't Jesus EVER collect tithes?

@Maddock:

I apologize sincerely. My comment was based on the idea that truth is never afraid of being exposed since it is above board.

@Joagbaje:

how now? BTW, what I wrote above is a contribution. It just does not conform to your idolatry is why it offends you. God, not man, dude, is to be defended! Anyways, allow me leave by NOT referring to me in this thread again seeing as I'm still on NL and can read.

Enjoy your days

I never said "my Holy Spirit is better than yours". Its you guys that have the concept of "revelation knowledge" thats greater than what the Apostles of christ had, not me! For me, there is one Holy Spirit and NO idiotic revelation knowledge that contradicts Scripture.

Where your gaffe is proceeds from your repeated question of what church I attend - you are comparing knowledge and doctrine in Christ. I am a member of Christ's Body. Hand or toe, heart or gall bladder, finger or anal membrane, all have their function and it is idiotic to say one church is better when all HAVE the same Head.

But that does not mean I will see obvious error and applaud it so I "feel among" and want to "honor" a man. The statement I complained of is wrong, whether it came from your pastor OR from me OR from an angel!.

You ask what Spirit gave this utterance and that is sad - do you believe EVERYTHING a man says comes from the Holy Spirit. What of his own spirit? Is he dead? Thats is aside of the concept that Satan spoke through Peter to Christ - is your pastor greater than "Cephas"?

@vanitty:

Did you read anything I wrote at all?

Who are the unbelievers here you are talking about? The questions you REFUSE to answer are many and they show you to not be sure of what you are saying - [1] those "great servants" that Jesus Himself said He will say He does not know - are they Christian pastors or Imams? [2] Why will He say He never knew these"workers of iniquity" if they are and did right AND taught what was right? [3] Who was God talking to in Malachi (priests or regular israelis? [4] Have you ever noticed that fanatics (Jos and suicide bombers are examples) turn everything into a fight instead of bringing "true proof" and that it is because they have only lies to depend on so they "da si rough"? [5] Why are you turning this into a fight and insults if you have truth on your side? Why not just "show forth your strong reasons like Is 45 says?

Nobody tells you NOT to give but if you think you can bribe God for "blessing" or open the windows of Heaven through tithes,  

The berean Christians are praised in the Bible ONLY because whatever even Paul told them, they went back home and checked the scriptures to be sure he was telling the truth - are you a berean Christian or following sheepishly? There's no fight here. Just bring truth, facts, Bible verses backed by study not half baked rubbish that depends on insults to make oneself look good. No man can support God. Remember the Pharisees kept trying to say they were supporting God by fighting Jesus.

Bring your facts to the table

@vanitty:

Can you stand before God's Throne and Swear/state that YOU have studied the issue of tithing in the Bible OR is it that you trust you pastor cannot lie to you? At which time you need to answer this question - The Bible says "Let God be true and all men liars" but are you saying your own pastor is the exception and the Bible is wrong that he can lie?

Religion by its nature is dictatorial and does not support dissent or questioning. Which is why christianity is amazing - it is the only religion (belief system) that asks/orders its adherents to test all spirits. It is also the only religion that says MANY THAT YOU LOOK UP TO ARE LIARS when Jesus says He will reject them saying "I never knew you workers of iniquity". I ask you Friend, was he talking about Imams in Sudan? Or was He talking about people that were trusted ministers yet who were liars?

It is worth re-thinking these issues. No-one says DON'T give. All we are saying is this is just like the commercialisation of the Temple procedures that Jesus got angry over. Give willingly, not under the spirit of legalism or fear