₦airaland Forum

@yemmight:

What is a man of God? Please read Matthew 23:8.

Every believer is the SAME. There is no seniority (according to the Bible which forbids you calling anyone or being called by anyone TEACHER, RABBI, MASTER and FATHER).

Even in the old testament, this phrase you use "Touch not my anointed and do my prophet no harm" was said by Balaam concerning the WHOLE of Israel not just the prophets or priests. The Bible says the Spirit of prophecy is the spirit that says Jesus is the Christ so once you accept Him in truth, you are automatically Hid prophet.

Don't allow anyone lie to you and make himself to be special - it is one Holy Priesthood with everyone an equal member except for ONE high priest i.e. Jesus Himself

You think they can make that conversion? I would doubt it but if they do, their posts and position "today" are on record to remind everyone that they change plumage and "truths" faster than the Chameleon.

Fulfilling the law meant becoming its perfect sacrifice so it could be upheld as perfect yet with the problem it presented solved. And it was His decision to send the Holy Spirit (comforter and bringer of all truth).

Your Ahmad may be another comforter to you since you like the taste of blood and bombs. he is not what was promised, at least not by Jesus or anybody in the Bible!

^^^ Exactly. Thank you.

Now to pig-eater and abdulq:

I make a categorical statement: If I walk on my two feet, that is normal. If I refuse and decide to walk on my two hands, that is NOT normal. In the same way, IF Aisha was 16 when Mohammed slept with her, Mohammed was RIGHT. If she was 9 years old, then he was WRONG.

Is that true or not? YES/NO?

But pig-eater will come back with one long story that has no beginning or end now and abdulq will not answer. Why? Because you know the truth. Yerima was following your prophets example and was even kind to have waited till the child became 13. If he truly wanted to be like Mohammed, he would have "climbed" on her 4 years ago!

^^^ I'm sorry but let harakiri answer my question. Also, why is it miracles that we seek not knowledge of God? Thats why chalatans like chris oyakilome reign - they pander to the crowd. if 10 people out of 2000 believe them, they've gained 10 mugus. What did they start with? Zero! So 10 is a plus for them, isn't it?

When we seek knowledge, we meet God and calm, peace, power enters our life. Miracles are not an issue, God is. Do you know why? Anyone who has played with the occult has seen powerful magic (like miracles). Satan does "miracles". Is it then God that cannot?

^^^ You seem to think this is a fight! Here you are, Voltron, defender of the universe (MOGs) against "nuclearboy", blasphemer who forgets pastors are god! Abi? Sorry, your pastor is not god by any means whatsoever and the Bible is above him.

If you say love means success and prosperity which means having 3 Jeeps, 2 mansions and never falling sick, then you are wrong no matter who you are. The APOSTLES OF JESUS HIMSELF WERE ALL poor. The Bible says they suffered, were ill, had problems etc. Did they not have "love"? Thats the question - who is greater? The Apostles Peter and Paul who said Christians suffer OR your MOG who says you must drive the best cars, never fall sick and should rule the world? Does your pastor have more love than Jesus Himself who the Bible says "had no place to lay His Head"? Does he have more understanding about the word than Paul who wrote the word he is quoting from and who suffered ill health, poverty, beatings, stonings and was eventually beheaded? Please answer that!

Zikky brought up another issue - over and over on this forum, people keep saying "tithing" is what rebukes the devourer and makes you rich. But here, you chaps say it is love. So please tell us - which is it? And by the way, if you argue against my position, please remember you are arguing against the position of the person who wrote half the new testament.

This has turned sad. Really really sad. basically then, everyone judges God by what "pastors" do. And while I agree most of them are an abomination and are doing wrong, misinterpreting God's Word deliberately to their own financial advantage and turning wrong into right, my point remains - if a suffering man refuses to read the Bible himself to know what is right, is it the pastor's fault? And when a pastor uses that to advantage to enrich himself, is it God's fault. NO, it is the fault of the lazy suffering man and the greed of the pastor.

@harakiri:

Do we still continue? And actually, a few examples of true "miracles" come to mind! Problem is, will you take my word or do I turn back time and let you witness them yourself?

Then again, maybe I should ask one question of you - do you believe the "devil" exists?

where is your answer? yes or no

I get your point - abstract algebra

But what I want is more "real". I want to know what you wanted me to give "you" as proof as I wonder if such exists outside the realm of discussion/conversation. i.e. is there any physical evidence I can give?

Used to be very good. Very very good, sincerely VB, VC, Pascal. Age and money have made me lazy. I do other, more "money-based" things now. And I read.

Sincerely, what would you call proof?

Should I produce a certificate of authenticity signed by God with satan as His witness?

I can only speak, friend. Conviction comes from inside. Its called an "experience with God"

^^^ This post of yours shows the problem Christianity has today - people looking from outside see the truth more than those inside. But it is good that people are learning that most "mogs" as they like to be called are full of issues in the eyes of society. But its not all their fault for when the laity calls a human MAN OF GOD, what they are saying is that they themselves are either MEN OF THE DEVIL or ORDINARY MEN BELOW THE MEN OF GOD. What the Bible says however, is we are brothers with only one "Oga" or teacher, Christ Himself. No one should be called Master, teacher, Rabbi and definitely not Father.

I hope someone will pick something from your post.

^^^ Consider the example I just gave you. The comparision of Old testament to New testament - the direct parallels. Egypt was how many years ago, the wilderness etc. How come they so fit my parallels of today? You say God changes His mind - I say NO, He progresses into "the next step" which is a better place and all of it is laid out clearly.

Again, the prophecies of Daniel in Daniel 7 are a continual source of amazement to me. He lived under Darius when the Roman Empire had not begun and yet in his dreams saw and wrote of amazing things that have been found to happen exactly as he said hundreds and thousands of years after he died. Just google "prophecies of Daniel" or even prophecies of Revelations. I have a B.S in Computer Science but like to read and have come across stuff that sincerely amazes me off the internet. I do not believe because I was brought up by Christians but because I find Jesus in Ifa, in Islam, in the Bhavagad-Ghita, everywhere. There always is a link that points to truth. Please note that if I did not read and study about those religions, I would not know. Why Jesus? Why? Is there any other name that crosses ALL borders? Ifa is Yoruba/Brazil/Haiti. Islam is Arabia. The orientals own the Ghita and associated writings. Where did they all get this information from. Or would you tell me "ELA" (deliverer) in Ifa was brought into Ifa by white men?

Bro, we plenty small for this world O. And many people study to lengths you wouldn't believe because it would look insane to you. I'm just saying consider the "FACTS". God is not a pastor. He is not your typical person walking around looking for a score at any cost.

The way you write, one would easily surmise common sense dropped from you when you left the womb.

Do you know why Jesus came? You talk about things your eyes have been closed to and are smug about them. Wetin concern me if you live 100, 000 miles from planet earth? Way you write, its like you probably are from another planet where cocaine is what you have for breakfast and ogogoro is what you use for water.

So thank you, Mr nuclearbomb in my heart. But I have to go cos right now, I am conversing with someone who's in his right mind and who's not carrying a prayer keg filled with Sapele number 3

The issue of the authorship of the Bible is one that people will continue talking of for always. There was one brilliant thread here on NL where some of the best minds here discussed its authors and inerrancy.

Basically, MY own view is this - the Bible is not a textbook like physics or math. It is a guide, a summary, an idea. One brilliant person said take a statement and shake it till all the words fall off and then, you'll have the message. Israel were slaves, rescued by God, marched through the wilderness, finally got to the promised land. That is the words. The truth is you were lost to sin (slave in Egypt), you received Christ (rescued by God), had to go through a period of refinement (wilderness experience which can be typified by the life of the Apostles, not todays billionaire pastors), and finally get to heaven (the promised land).

Such stories fill the Bible and when you get the idea, you understand its beauty - simple and written by simple men yet guided by God to contain and pass across what He decided. Details abound as almost all situations are covered in the SAME WAY, not as a physics book which would discuss HEAT and get only one answer always. With this case, its different depending on the situation yet it tells the truth every single time.

So whether Igbo, Igbira, chinese or Arabian author, what matters is the Hand behind it all - Gods' guiding its progress over thousands of years and ensuring it carries His message to us

harakiri:
The Isrealites are God's.Point taken.Who did the others belong to? Hmmm? Who do YOU belong to?Are you an Israelite?

Every choice is "right" or "wrong", "God" or "satan". You choose God means you reject satan. You reject God means you accept satan.

We addressed the "Israelite" issue before - are you reading my posts? All believers today are spiritually "Israelite" just as some call themselves "blue" cos they support a football club. Abi you don see color blue human before?

The issue you raised about food is interesting. Please do a search on google for Old testament food. You might be suprised to find the diet was the best suited to the wilderness and the type of life they lived in it. As time went by and people settled (especially with gentiles coming into christianity), there was a shift in priorities - food for warriors on the march differs from food in an urbane environment. Also, the gentiles had their own customs.

Your last question is about who goes to church for the love of God and who for money? Again its self explanatory -Christianity's reward is in heaven, not on earth. That is what the Apostles looked forward to, not to buying "private jets" and collecting tithes from poor people.

^^^ Let me put it like this - If (supposing) Aisha was 9 when Mohammed took her to bed, was he wrong or right?

One word answer, please, thank you

^^^ I just addressed this issue now, bro.

Most people do NOT know what they are doing! Here on NL, we call them WOFers, name and claim 101, etc. They come making noise expecting God to behave like personal bodyguards and at the same time an armed robber who gives them cash even when they don't have work. Its such people that are fooled.

But you cannot show me a counterfeit 5, 000 Naira note today BECAUSE there is no genuine. In effect, without a genuine, there is no counterfeit; which implies there are genuine. Pastor-worshippers are definitely fake. Pastors that allow themselves to be worshipped too are also fake.

@harakiri:

BTW, I see you are judging God based on what pastors are doing not what He does.

Too many of us prefer that pastors stand between us and God and such people are the ones who give opportunity for pastors to milk them dry. A Christian is supposed to [1] Achieve a prayerful strong relationship with God. Just talk and talk (not noise making; could even be mind not tongue based) [2] Read his Bible (I personally hate ALL commentaries on the Bible e.g ROR, daily guide etc because I believe God speaks to us best directly and not through anyone) [3] Test all spirits [4] allow a clear conscience (usually built from good character and humility) to direct him. Most of the time, you will find the conscience is interchangable (in my context) with a "Godly" spirit i.e. the Holy Spirit

Now, if your family man cannot read his Bible and study to show himself approved, is it the pastor's fault? And if the pastor takes advantage of such, is it God's fault? Nope, it is the man's fault AND the pastor's greed and God is looking for above sadly at two so-called "children" turning "belief" into a dance of shame.

harakiri:
If that isn't foul play, i don't know what else is.Same thing I've been hammering on. . .preferential treatment for the Israelites.The bible is all about them and only them and the only time the roman empire came into the bible was when the religion spread to Sparta/Athens/Greece/Macedonia thus the offshoot of Roman Catholicism as we know it today.

Foul play?  

Please answer this - Who would your father support in a table tennis match? YOU or ME! The Israelites are GOD's. The Bible is clear about that and just as I explained above, most all of us have a choice. At least you do right now to continue to question, consider sincerely and finally accept Jesus or to refuse. If you refuse, why would He support you against me in a fair contest? Where the problem comes is when I do wrong and you do right - of course He will support YOU at that time but the problem is most of us expect we can do anything then call on some idiotic emotion based argument for support.

Why would you have me quote from the time of Abraham? Prior to that, we are told Enoch walked with God, aren't we? And we are told the Noah's generation "totally" rejected God's ways, aren't we? Would you have me say they don't matter? Why?

Pharaoh's case is one that sincerely has always puzzled me. I too wondered about the idea of him softening and then God "hardening"his heart again. I do not speak for God or as an oracle but to my mind, that particular Pharaoh (and the Bible supports this) had been particularly cruel to Israel and its like any of us handed the molester of any of our relatives and allowed to do whatever we wanted. We'd most likely dream of amazing slow painful torture etc. God forgive me but my understanding is that I was created in His likeness. If I want revenge for such, who am I like?

Seems a travesty judging God to be like us but then, I have a mind ehn? And its just a hypotheses. I do not claim knowledge! I just think maybe God killed two birds with that stone. He created a reputation for the Israelites and at the same time had His/"and Israel's" vengeance on a particularly cruel king. NOTE that Pharaoh's people supported him or else his heavy hand would not have been felt so strongly by the slave Israelites. So they shared his punishment.

BTW, Pharoah's heart melting was not out of consideration for Israel but for his own people. That is not repentance from Evil. Just the thing that makes an armed robber flee when the Police arrive. He will still rob!

@Leopantro:
I wonder if you've read the conversation between me and harakiri. I'm trying to do what you said you expect.

@Obelisk:
Why do you think there is no logic in "belief". BTW, I can try to explain almost everything you list

Yes, God came to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He also came to others in the Bible who rejected Him. Many wanted only what they could get out of it. But just like the case of Davids' anointing, He looked on the inside and saw Jacob's inner motives (or choice of God). Egypt was Israels greatest ever enemy yet God told Israel to accept "any" who wanted to become one of them.

The nations Israel came across in the wilderness had ALL heard their reputation and knew what happened in and to Egypt. Some of their people's (like Rahab the Harlot) joined Israel. I have not seen where they were turned back. The others fought against them. People die in battle!

Today its the same - people reject joining what we call the "spiritual" Israel for varying reasons. Some because its not cool/funky. Some because they preferred the lure of money, sin, etc. Some because they prefer another religion. Whatever, its not God rejecting them. Its them rejecting Him just as those ancient people's rejected Him.

Please consider that. God never rejects. It is us who do so.

You want proof? My reponse is simple - what are the alternatives? When there are supposedly 2 (or more) proposed answers to any issue, the only way we can resolve truth is by elimination. So please produce your list of alternatives and lets go through them.

BTW, we've veered off your original questions with this. Not that I'm complaining but still, just to let you remember.

Israel originally was ONE man called Jacob. This is where I think most of us miss it. God decided to be this man's God and that by extension, meant being God to his descendants (who look/are like him). It is the concept that separates Christianity from other religions - it is "me AND God" OR "harakiri AND God" never "all of us AND God". A personal walk whose instancing most of us never considered. That is why no two experiences are the same (when you find true believers) though they could to the outsider look similar.

I believe the choice of Israel was a two way thing. He CHOSE God and God chose him. Same as today in Christianity where you can be born into a supposedly christian family yet never "know" God. Whatever it was, it remains a type for us today. YOU matter. I matter. It is an INDIVIDUAL THING and just as Jacob (Israel) became a Nation that God had a relationship with, so do we become a Nation of Believers today (a Spiritual Israel).

And of course, tithes again

^^ Chei, Alimat don die!

better stick to reciting and cramming arabian poetry. Unlike you, we Christians THINK

harakiri:
lol

Point taken. . .but you do know that the Noah story is quite bogus don't you?

As I said earlier, you have made up our mind. We're just going through motions here. All seems about laughter and feeling "cool" to you.

Anyway, and for Claritys sake, God created the heavens and the earth. Stop! His Spirit was moving upon the face of the waters. Stop. God started creating light etc. Stop

ok, how long did God take to create the heavens and the earth? then how long was His Spirit moving BEFORE HE STARTED CREATING LIGHT ETC? This is NOT aeronautics, is it?

Your post immediately above gives impression that your questions were meant to ridicule and not that you wanted answers. People sat down, saw what you saw, studied and came to understand. But here you are - trying to ridicule and screaming about fear. You seem the one afraid here - for who's talking Jihad with you? Or discussing innocent children being sacrificed? Or Crusaders?

This is a typical and very unfortunate response on NL! Apparently you're now angry people will read answers and say "oh ok, I see, but still etc" and you will have had your exit in their minds so you react thus. Sad.

On your 7 days issue, I suggest you wikipedia "YEC" or google "creationism". You might be suprised to find more people than you seem to expect have also voiced our concerns and studied the issue. What I wonder is if you truly wish to listen to anyone who attempts to show another point of view aside your own

@harakiri:
Read your Genesis 1:2 again. It states there was a time when the Spirit of God was "moving". Please tell me how long was His Spirit moving upon the face of the waters?

Your third question was

harakiri:
(3)In the same bible, the lord was angry with the world he created and was determined to destroy his creation (how ironic ).He instructed Noah to build an arc and put pairs of all living things in that ark.To the best of my knowledge, botanists spend their entire lives collecting and identifying species of a particular organism/animal/plant.Even if he lived 2,000 years on earth, there was no way he could have been able to achieve such a feat coz there were no airplanes,buses or ships to travel across the globe to get all pairs of organisms.Are we trying to say he came down to Africa to get the African elephant and then trekked back to India to get the Indian elephant? Think about it and you'll see how ridiculous it sounds.No roads.No buses.No planes.No ships.No rockets.No internet and yet. . .

ALL your questions are about thought processes. Your third question has been answered on this forum maybe 20 times - The question you need to ask is simply "what is the world" ?

Harakiri, imagine me and you are back in Noah's time - We live in Asia and ALL of mankind lives there with us. Then a flood covers Asia. Would we be wrong to tell our children that "the whole world" was flooded? I can see you telling Junior that "the tallest mountains in the (known) whole world were completely covered" and you would be right since that was the WHOLE (known) world. But now we are in 2010 and we know more. But they were right in their context and writing down. I believe God wants us to use our minds and the Bible is not a physics textbook but a guide. Using our minds completes the picture.

BTW, please do a bit of reading about the flood and you will find scientific theories point to the FACT that there was a flood but regional just as I have explained above.

Your second question was:

harakiri:
(2)In the book of Genesis, Cain killed Abel out of jealousy.He was exiled from Eden and he went to the land of Nod and married there.Can you explain who those people were coz from my recollection, at that time it was just Adam,Eve and two kids.So who are these people that were "omitted" in the story and who is this mysterious woman Cain married? Was it his sister? Or did he get married to animals?

Does your copy of the Bible tell you about any of the times that Moses went to the toilet? What we need to understand is that it is not every single occurence of days past (history) that the Bible mentions. My answer to you concerning your first question is summarized - why? Because it would be too verbose and I wouldn't want readers falling asleep. But STILL, my point is made in the summary. The Bible is a summary designed to show us a path. If it were complete, everything that ever happened to everyone (in the Bible) would be there. Cain and Abel were mentioned because they show us the first rift in mankind. Are you certain Adam and Eve had no other children? Or are you so young that you never had the chance to read about the Roman empire where kings married their sisters because they wanted to keep their blood lines "pure"? I propose a theory - So what if Cain later married a younger sister that came after Abel? Does the Bible say Adam and Eve had no other children or have you not seen incest practiced in the Bible?

Please think outside the box and see what is in front of you. Its clearer with a bit of thought and study of ancient cultures and mindsets. It also makes more sense than saying Baboons became you after 2 million years (why did only some become you and not all?) after becoming baboons from being snails who also became snails after 2 million years (why didn't all the snails become baboons - did they take a vote?) from being tse-tse flies etc etc etc

Your first question was

harakiri:
(1)According to the history of the bible (from Adam till the present day), the world is not older than 5000 years and yet, there are archaeological findings dating back to millions and even billions of years back.There is no mention of ancient civilizations, dinosaurs or prehistoric plant life.All that was mentioned are what we see around us today.Could you explain this discrepancy?

Your presumption (and mistake) is that the YEC theory is the only one in Christianity. Young Earth creationism (YEC) is a form of creationism that asserts the Heavens, Earth, and all life were created by direct acts of God during a relatively short period, sometime between 5,700 and 10,000 years ago. Its adherents are those Christians and Jews who believe that God created the Earth in six 24-hour days, taking a literal interpretation of the Genesis creation narrative as a basis for their beliefs.

However, there are other theories. these include the Gap theory, the progressive theory etc. To desist from writing a verbose theses here, let me summarize as best I know how quickly:

There is a gap between Genesis 1:1 (when God created the heavens and the earth) and Genesis 1:3 (when creation of the elements began). Nobody knows how long this period lasted for - a day, month, ten thousand years, a million years etc. During that time, all your fossils etc existed and formed. Now, the gap I mentioned is the point where the Bible says

"In the beginning ,  the earth was formless and void."

This is taken by Gap creationists to imply that the earth already existed, but had passed into decay during an earlier age of existence, and was now being "shaped anew". Note that this view is relatively consistent with mainstream science with respect to the age of the Earth.

That solves the puzzle of your first question yet remains Biblical except for those who insist the only theory is the YEC one. Should I proceed to question 2?

@harakiri:

Create a new thread and post your questions there! If only for those who also don't understand the issues you've raised, I will answer them.

As you have requested, the answers will be direct and straight to the point. I will NOT give ONE excuse for an answer. But you too will not then start looking for excuses

banom:
I was not duely consulted,

Great point. Take "Seun Osewa" to court and seek damages. Add "Jesoul" as a co-respondent. The average policeman should be able to help you find at least 20 charges for their insolence. BTW, don't forget I was the one who showed ou the way when judgement is awarded in "our" favor