₦airaland Forum

^^ Who is asleep if not the one who denies the Lordship of the Christ?

In answer to your question, the statue is not Jesus neither is it a true representation of Him. Where did you see Him or of what likeness is He. Blond hair, brown hair, black hair? Wide nose or the thin nose of the stereotyped white man? What was His complexion. Anyway, even if it were a good representation, it is written "thou shalt make NO graven images" so the people who made that statue were in error and not following Biblical standards or directives. So why should God protect their "Sin"?

@Abdulq:

Your posts makes sense but you have a problem - if you say the 13 year old was not old enough to agree, how could the 6 year old Aisha your prophet married have been old enough to agree to marry and lose her virginity at 9?

Do NOT forget - that is the justification Yerima uses. Was your prophet wrong? If you agree he was wrong, case closed- we agree with you!

^^ They "supposed" he was dead meant they THOUGHT WRONGLY that he was dead. Thats High School class 2 english and elementary.

anistemi

; to stand up (literally or figuratively, transitively or intransitively): - arise, lift up, (raise up (again), stand up(-right)

from Strong's Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries

"anistemi"'s meaning is above. Which would mean those who stoned Paul thought he was dead but after they left, he got up again

All this misinterpreting to turn Paul into another "Lord" is not good. Please stop it.

@pig-eater:

The beauty of Christianity is that it is about a man's walk with God. You, the individual and your relationship to God. We are allowed and in fact encouraged to ask questions and confirm everything we see, hear, read. We are also made to understand that we ALL know in part and see in part. Our arguments show the desire to rub minds and understand more.

You guys on the other hand follow a creed - recite, repeat and defend what does not make sense or have relevance. Abi how does someone discuss "allah has no messenger except mahmoud (GTH)"

How do we relate?

As I said earlier, there is nothing worthy of discussion or consideration in your section. Thats why you come here. There's a huge hint in that: when your Spirit thirsts to stay here rather than "home". Think - this may be the true "home" for your spirit.

@Inesqor:

Please note I used quotes around my assertion ["no relationship"]. I was trying to keep away from distracting fron the object at hand i.e. those who I really felt mattered who were the "believers".

The "no food for dogs" issue came to mind so it was for simplicity I said "no" relationship

Joagbaje:
@MOG2009

The point is , Death is a choice. Pastor Chris is not planning on death. neigher Im i planning to die. If you believe in the message , You will reign over death. Death is an enemy of God. The generation that believe this truth is the generation that will see the rapture.

John 11:26
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

If a man of God dies, It is based on what he believes. Death will rule over a man that believes in death. Enoch went by rapture, Elijah went by rapture .I go by rapture.

FANTASTIC! Peter did not believe. Paul did not believe. James (aka baby-teeth) did not believe. In effect, none of those who walked with Jesus and died for His Gospel believed.

ONLY Joagbaje and Chris Oyaks "believe". All hail the perfect believers.

^^^ obviously, you have naught to do

^^ Are you not the one they said was Olabowale? You miss road? or you see Hajia-Ninja or body-bombs here? I beg O. 

Anyway, could you please go away? We have heard this thing like 2 million times already on NL i.e. fully capable and no needing partner allah etc. I also know he has three daughters whose mention was abrogated out of the quran. Also, a goat ate some of the quran when allah went on holiday to jeddah. Also, the person who wrote the quran himself said he wasn't sure it was not a demon talking to him and became a very disturbed person. --> ergo, you have nothing new to say and since your islam section is dead (islam having nothing to discuss but the Bible), you visit here.

If you guys have a religion that can be discussed, go discuss it in your own space. Just visit https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/board-44.0.html

Thank you, Brothers. It was a result of a conversation between a friend in my little prayer group and I earlier today.

@Aletheia:

Please give us your understanding about those cases; where members of what I would seemingly have called the "Establishment" above fall into the group of "true disciples". How do we know them, their manner etc based on YOUR experience

@DGI-PLUS: Your further contributions even if to expand on my categories or comment on any, would be welcome

[size=5pt]this is where I wish Tudor would show up[/size]

Over and over on NL, you have seen me say I believe you are sincere. Sadly though Abuzola too is sincere - but you wil notice we all like him and God witness I have no problem with you. Being a Pastor is not easy (I know though I prefer you don't know me openly) but one hallmark of Christianity is honesty, openness to correction and a decided bent towards JESUS CHRIST ALONE.

When you respond to me, what you do is say I have "baby-teeth" and that I'm not a believer etc etc. Those are insults. When I consider the quality and depth of your posts, I wonder how you can say such - I'm not saying I am ahead of ANY Christian but you definitely do not know where I too am.

We ask you questions, you selectively avoid some and answer some. We make statements and back them from the Scripture but you say No, its not like that, those who wrote the Bible didn;t know enough (James for example). For many years, I believed like you that all Christians MUST speak in tongues. Studying without having any doctrine at the back of my mind got me to where I came to understand it is for an evangelical sign as the Word says. But you say NO and only offer spurious arguments for such. So what do you want me to do.

[1] I try to explain
[2] You insult me and say I have baby-teeth
[3] I have apologised many times on this forum when I found myself wrong. Show me one apology you gave anybody - its like you believe you're "perfect" and don't care how others see you
[4] The "rebuttals" you present are backed with random passages which show indoctrination not your mind
[5] Then you bring this army of 24 or less posts who appear as if by magic to support you without a single scriptural backing
[6] When its established CE members, its the same "indoctrination". No personal thoughts show!

So first, I feel like I'm talking to a robot and. I revert in type (insult) because my level of education and the reach of my mind is probably incomprehensible to many. And then you come back and say I'm not allowing you talk.

Address issues and never talk of baby teeth with anyone here. We're faceless but you might be suprised people you watch on TV are here. None of us is on a pulpit here where questions cannot be asked. We are supposed to sharpen each other if both "Iron". Show respect and you too will get respect.

But you cannot tell me I have an "unteachable" spirit and expect me not to find your weakness and bite you with it/them.

^^ I know what I am and am not planning to "pass as a christian" to YOU. Its you and company that seek the accolades of men (see matt 23). Maybe you should see what category you are in the thread https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-466758.0.html. That should set you straight when you consider Christ's reactions to the different "types". Jesus too never tried to pass the "establishment's test". I know this rings a bell somewhere in you. Don't avoid the "little voice" calling out

Cheers.

^^ Now why didn't I think of that? Brilliant observation there and I wonder how this will be defended. I'll wager it will be ignored

Here goes -

[1] Those outside of "Israel" - the physical Israel when Christ walked earth and the "spiritual" Israel today. These were all non-israelites then and today are all non-believers (better yet, all non-professing). Christ has "no" relationship with these.

[2] Those Christ chose as "His" - Disciples who listened to HIM alone and were taught directly by Him. They followed Him against the establishment and chose His Words and Spirit only against all the odds. Christ spoke lovingly but firmly with these

[3] The crowds - (nominal believers) These cheered when He entered Jerusalem but three days after, howled for His Head! These ones want only what they can get. When Christ spoke to these, He mainly used parables because they had no love for truth just a "lust" they wanted fulfilled (healing, money, health). Today, they prefer riddles and so refuse the source and prefer the "interpretations"

[4] The Pharisees and Sadducees - The Establishment! These were the religious leaders who knew the truth but preferred to tell lies. They are still out there today making themselves out as the "Voice" of God and would prefer men left all things religious to their interpretation. With these, Christ was ALWAYS harsh and used words like HYPOCRITES, WHITE WASHED SEPULCHERS etc.

And so history repeats itself and as the Word says 'there is nothing new under the sun'. Just as the 1st century had Pharisees who insisted they were the law and righteous, who gave their offerings before men, counted "tithing mint and cumin" higher than love, justice and mercy, so do we today have a new generation of such - They sit on thrones riding the best cars, take from the poor, pervert justice for self gain and call themselves MOGs.

So do we have the crowds who say they want Christ and make noise when all they want is the blessings they "hope" to get and so they claim "faith". However, when the pharisees decided to have Jesus killed, the crowds supported them. Today also, the crowds support MOGs against the Word of God and therefore Christ because the MOGs tell them what they want to hear. Same story, different actors. 

And there is the unbeliever (non-Israelite). Difference is today, we are exhorted to bring them in unlike then when they could not become Israelites.

The true believer still exists - He follows Christ ALONE and to the exclusion of ALL men, whether MOG or MOD or GO or whatever. He will sacrifice anything including his trust in a man for his trust in God's Word that says "NONE is clean, no, not one". He will go against the flow and whist he may today seem defeated at times by the "religious leaders" who have politicking and the crowd behind them, yet can he like Stephen say : "You stiff-necked people, with uncircucised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers. You always resist the Holy Spirit" Acts 7:51. He stays connected to the "Source" and that to the exclusion of all else.

I wonder which category each of us reading today falls into!

^^^ God forbid but if truly it were possible, who do you think it'll be on NL?

I guess success and prosperity are the words we need to define here. Taken in the context that you would be materially rich, drive 3 SUVS, never fall ill or have children that have measles, certainly the preaching was wrong.

If however, other (not mentioned above) portions of the message defined success as indwelling peace, joy in the face of adversity and prosperity as "contentment" etc, then he could be considered "right". However, the antecedents of the man in question betray a likelihood that I am deluding myself its the second case.

@Ogoamaka99:

Whats with "OYEDEPO PREACHED"? Do you know capitalizing words is "shouting". Why are you "shouting" Oyedepo? Do you know Jesus told His true followers NEVER to allow any man call them teacher, master, Rabbi or father? ANYBODY who allows men call him so is not a true follower or is definitely out of the will of the Jesus he claims to follow. I doubt Oyedepo will be happy you're practically calling him "Lord" here if he follows Christ.

BTW, when you read "petres007"'s post, what part suggested "ignorance"? Can you please exegise for us the meaning of those words so we know he was in error?

Then why are we saved by Grace if you believe we are still under Moses law? BTW, which are you keeping?

As long as you know the facts, it is then your choice what you do. AS LONG AS YOU KNOW. That is all we want - that people decide with knowledge of the facts

@Zikky:

Don't be unfair to D-Optimist. I think it is worth it answering his questions patiently - at times new information can be overwhelming and all the senses seem to scream out against anything that contradicts what you've believed or felt or been taught for so long

@D-Optimist:
Both Zikky and Aletheia are against "tithing"! Let me define that for you so it is clear. "Tithing" as we say it, is the "obligation" of paying a tenth of your income to your local church.

1stly, it is not Christian as it makes "giving" a compulsion AND ALSO forces a particular percentage.

2ndly, it is not even been taught the way it was in the Old Covenant (under the law of Moses) as then, even though there was money in use, it was only agricultural produce (crops and animals) that were tithed. Even at that, they were tithed only in every third year. e.g. you pay tithe in 2004 then you pay 2007 then you pay in 2010. Not every year.

3rdly, under the old covenant, tithes were given to 4 categories of people [1] the Widow [2] Strangers (people you don't know who needed help) [3] Fatherless [4] the Levites (because they had no inheritance in Israel and would starve otherwise.

Finally, friend, I did not say "pay your tithe but not as if you owe anyone". What I said was "continue giving. If God lays it on your mind this month to give 5%, give 5%. If next month, He lays it on you to give 60%, please give 60%. There is NO fixed percentage for Christians to give. What is important is to follow the leading of God's Spirit inside you and help both the church AND the poor/widow/stranger".

I hope you understand now.

@D-Optimist:

When God gave the law to Moses, a dispensation in which the Israelites were under the "LAW" as a nation began. When Jesus came, not only did He make Israelites (in the Spirit) of all who believe in Him, His death also brought about a better covenant based on Grace, not on the Law.

When He spoke and said "It Is Finished", we read that the Temple veil was torn from top to bottom. At that time, the "LAW" passed away and GRACE came into effect.

BUT UNTIL THAT MOMENT, it was the "LAW" that was still in effect - which means when Jesus spoke to the Pharisees, He was speaking under the LAW which said "pay your tithes".

Brother, please do not stop giving. But give it as "I have decided to give 1/10 of my earnings to church" not "I OWE MY TITHE". Do you get the difference? And remember the poor, widow, stranger, fatherless also. Jesus said whoever gives to them gives to Him

"Sons of Jacob"! Which in Israel was not a son of Jacob?

But WHICH could bring offerings INTO the Temple? BECAUSE it is that person that could bring that God spoke to saying "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse"

And does your "last say" not apply to you?  

^^ The following are the facts -whatever you want to make God's Word out to "mean", the fact is that Malachi from Chapter 1 verse 6 was a statement directed at specific people - the Priests! They pervert justice, they make people to err, only they could bring food into the Storehouse.

Another way to say this is - Could a member of the tribe of Dan or Judah offer anything in the Temple? Was it not only the Priests (not even the other levites could offer) that could bring these things? When it says "Bring ye all", could God be telling a member of the tribe of Benjamin to enter the Temple? If God could, please show us how? If not, he spoke only to the Priests, no?

Have you ever actually tried to read the Bible or are you just supporting simply because someone you respect so much (your "mentor" or "spiritual father" when Jesus Himself said none of His should be called father, rabbi, teacher etc) said so and you've decided to stand against truth in favor of that respect you have for him?

@D-Optimist:

Apologies but the truth is that Jesus lived under the Old dispensation (under the law). It was when He said "It Is Finished" on the Cross that His NEW dispensation started. That was when the Mosiac law (under which He Himself lived since He came to fulfill it and never sinned) ended.

In effect, when He said what you have written above, the "NEW TESTAMENT" had not begun.

Think about that, brother. And remember, its not giving that Kunle is complaining of - it is the misuse of scripture to coerce people to give that he's against.

If people were allowed to make the decision themselves with all the facts laid out in front of them and they decide to set aside 1/10 of their resources for their local church, nobody will complain. Giving is good

^^ Better go and read the Bible and throw out erROR.

You will report me for beating to "Papa God"?  name and claim ehn? You are obviously one of the deluded "mugus" in CE who have a surface "hearing" of "some" of Paul's teachings and no knowledge of God. Typical, just like your "high priest" who is waiting to ask the Apostle James in Heaven why he said a sinner is a sinner. Liars, thieves and cheats, bearing liars, thieves and cheats yet claiming to have intimacy with God.

Stop beating yourself about the mouth and exposing the emptiness of your understanding. If you want to know who is empty, ask Joagbaje to attempt answering Aletheia and the queries I raised rather than the way he stuck his tail between his bottom cheeks and fled

And when we say their knowledge is shallow, their doctrines are pitiful and their christianity is pretentious, people wonder.

so many words, so little said

^^^

I think e36991 is trying to get garyarnold to "explain totally" so there can be no doubt as to the scriptural position. His antecedents here show him as having too much knowledge to deliberately raise these "lemons" one after the other just so garyarnold can "cancel" them. As he said, he's keeping his cards close to his chest. Probably a joke.

BTW, did anyone notice the tithe noise-maker has nothing of value from scripture to contribute. Just asinine insults that only show the vapidness and shallowness of his mind and knowledge.

all in all, very interesting discourse with issues faced squarely.

Image123:
You can't argue that it addresses levites or is law, then come back to quote it. Are you desperate?

Yes, he can. It addresses anyone who perverts justice for his own purpose(s) and is in this case, particularly suited to "those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive aliens of justice"

What people are giving willingly will do God's Work because God takes care of His work and will lay it on the hearts He wishes to give as He wishes. If you don't believe God is capable of raising the finances for His work, you're a joker. Go and find honest work to do rather than scamming people out by making it obligatory to pay a tax that is not Godly. Giving is GOOD. Taxing people is NOT GOOD.

ok, 4 consecutive posts and no sense in any. so how do I deal with "nothing"

^^^

3 consective posts and not enough sense to fill one sentence. Is that the best you can do? You remind me of an elderly chap in the Islamic section. All talk, no truth or reasoning. You ask if God hates an uncheerful giver? Why are you asking me? Why not do us all a favor and visit God to ask Him? What I know is "God loves a cheerful giver" AND "as the Spirit lays it on your heart, give" not moronic questions about if God point blank comes out to say He hates uncheerful giving when the Bible says "God hates deceitful scales" which would suggest if deceitful, God is not "with" it. Why don't you let them know the truth and then accept whatever they bring "cheerfully"?

This post at least shows you know you are cajoling people to bring money as obligations when they are not.

Petres:

You are looking for trouble O! Have you forgotten "Touch not my anointed etc". And today's revelation knowledge is greater than what Jesus knew

There's a way out and the MOGs know it - they'll sin so much God will be so angry that He'll throw them past hell in anger. SOLVED!

@yommyuk:

God bless you! balanced, makes sense and true!

Not noise making intended for recreation or to "show". Evangelical BUT some have it as a gift and manifest as though normal to them.

BTW, I speak in tongues so its not like I'm complaining. Lets just know the truth not believe in this rubbish "kabbashing"

Uktomi:

You "KNOW"? Well, to tell you the truth, I "BELIEVE" HE IS NOT a freemason. But I do NOT "know". There is only one way you can know, brother, and that is if you are a freemason and are telling us he is not one of you.

What I "know" is this - A Freemason will not dare stand against the society publicly and call them evil. That informs my statement - just say "God forbid me, a servant of Jesus Christ and a believer in the Most High God, should join a cult such as the freemasons". That would make many keep quiet about him (at least on cultism claims).

Someone could argue "should he then swear to everything (tithes, fraud, holiness etc, etc, etc)"? Well, Paul practically ensured everyone knew where he stood in no uncertain terms and there's no reason why someone who particularly likes Paul and says such as the Apostle James has baby-teeth, should not follow Paul's example.

All of these things, bro, are based on morality. It might be legal but not morally expedient for a Christian leader to keep quiet (feigning ignorance) in the face of so many allegations of wrong.

Think about my post again and you'll see I'm supporting him on this. But I'd like his help with it

^^^ Basically then, this was just another "public relations" stunt! And I was just so happy and ready to believe the man was sincere, not hype seeking

The pronouncement I sought was simple - publicly (at least to re-assure those who doubt) say you're not a freemason or cultist of any type, address such fears and state publicly that all such groups are evil and satan-worshippers

My Questions? ah, whats the point - there's no desire for truth, just a yearning to be and feel applicable. The more "hits" (like a website), the greater the hype (Praise the Lord, 12 million people called in the first week alone. The church is marching on and based on that, we got 25, 000 new members. Isn't God just wonderful. Blow Him a kiss, everyone and clap for me too as you kiss the HS).

Public Relations! Christian marketing