₦airaland Forum

I'm telling you I didn't miss it.

The "spoils" belonged to LOT, SODOM etc. Then war and captivity made them belong to the Victors. Then Abram's war made them belong to Abram and his guys. But the Bible narrative shows he refused that tradition and renounced ownership of the "spoils" and returned what was due to him to the original owners i.e. LOT, SODOM etc.

To make it easy for a simpleton's mind to understand, the rules "basically" say "To the reprobate, I show Myself same". The chap who seeks reason to believe I do not exist (in effect), will find reasons to support his assertion. However, his very existence will be a travesty and ridicule of himself.

Those are issues worth considering. I remember thinking some on this forum were like this but good sense showed them mature true humans, not children trying to feel among by saying "I am a scientist and do not believe in God" yet not knowing jack about "reason". You, dude, should consider truth rather than this wallpaper like inaneness

@K2 again:

On the issue of Ananias and Sappira, those were also FREEWILL offerings which I discussed as fine. Or could you please show me the "curses" attached like your pastors do with tithes?

If you loan money and on the way to repay, are robbed at gunpoint and so it didn't work out and you are unable to pay, it is because you lack integrity, right?

I'm sorry bro, but I know God's Spirit has more depth of understanding than this

^^^ Didn't miss anything, friend! Yes, the spoils were much! Yes, it was out of these spoils that Abram gave a tenth to Melchizedek. Which is what we all have been saying.

Where there was an issue was the legalism of 90% returned to Sodoms king which I have explained. I used the "King of Sodom" to represent all the original owners of the goods (spoils) more or less in the same way that the Bible itself uses the same "King of Sodom" to represent the original owners. Just as the Bible did not start to list Mr A, slave of Mr ZC who has Ogbomosho tribal marks etc, I did not bother to list the individual owners. To make things simple, I just said - Abram gave a tenth to Melchizedek and returned the rest to the original owners. The ABSOLUTE of that is - Abram gave a tenth to Melchizedek, then apportioned the portion that belonged to his three companions to them and returned the rest back to their original owners.

BTW, Spoils of war in this case included human beings, gold etc and so spoils could be and were brought back

@K2:

You ask if Melchizedek was a Levite! No, he was not.

But here is where you have a problem. The Bible says "Abram GAVE a tithe/tenth to Melchizedek". It does not say Abram paid his tithe to Melchizedek! Do you get my point?

[1] Abram "dashed" him a tenth. It was a freewill offering and if you truly read my post, you would see I have nothing against even 90% of your income AS freewill.

[2] You will note another thing - Abram NEVER paid tithe/tenth again. If you believe he did, please show us where.
[3] YET another - It was a custom in those days to give a king 10%. Melchizedek welcomed and blessed him and its likely thats why he gave that tenth to him.
[4] YET another - Abram is not recorded as ever paying tithe out of his own properties and/or possessions.

Brother, when last did you go to war and bring back "spoils of war"? You ought have given a tenth at that time to emulate Abram. Using Abram's tradition based action to justify "tithing" is another travesty of God's Word for the reasons outlined above. Don't forget that Yoruba Tradition says an elder is right whether he says rubbish or not. That might not be a sin but do you agree with it? Remember the Bible is about life. Let us be dynamic!

Again I say, give 90% willingly to whoever you wish but don't believe you are buying God's favor OR rebuking a devourer as your MOGs like to say - where there's a sacrifice being made, there are 2 parties NOT 3. One makes the sacrifice and the other collects it. God is not there!

@Tosin/etc (Tosin especially since your posts show sincerity and not a desire for a fight):

Kunle and Ogajim ARE Christians. They only do not just follow without being certain. Tudor is a good chap who has been disappointed too often. He's vexing! 

Study of the Bible shows that tithes were meant for the poor, widow, stranger AND levite (because they did no work). In effect, levites got a "portion" of the tithe ONLY because they had no other income. Let me state quickly here that Jesus is the ULTIMATE LEVITE! But he worked and we know He was a carpenter! The Apostle Peter was a fisherman. The Apostle Paul made tents for a living and even used it to boast that he never made his welfare a problem for ANYONE but paid his own way through his own work. If these three worked as the Bible says, please justify why your pastor does not and has to get your tithe!

Secondly, even the "portion" of the tithe that got to the levites was not a weekly/monthly thing. Tithes came the 3rd year. Who were these levites by the way? They were the musicians, singers, cleaners etc of the Temple, not the priests. Do you give "portions" (say 1/4 each) to poor, widows, strangers and the last 1/4 to levites today? And of that last 1/4, how much do you give to your choristers and those who sweep your church etc? Because that is what the Bible says!

Finally AND MOST IMPORTANT, who was God talking to in Malachi? Please do not be blindfolded by any MOGs "stories". They that you call your PRIESTS are the ones God was talking to - Go back and start from Mal 1:6 and you will see God repeatedly says "you, O priests". It is them that God said "showed contempt for Him" Mal 1:6. It is them who place defiled food on His altar (1:7), who bring injured or diseased animals (1:13), who God says He will curse because they have not set their hearts to honor Him (2:1,2), whose lips SHOULD preserve knowledge but who have turned from the way and whose teaching causes many to stumble (2: 8 ). God says "they" flood His altar with tears (2:13). Please TELL ME who could get to God' altar in the OT apart from the Priests? And so it is them He says have wearied Him with their words (2:17). It is LEVITES He will purify and refine (3:3) so that HE will have men who will bring offerings in Righteousness (since it was them who brought sacrifices).

So when God says, "Yet you rob me", why does your MOG suddenly say "yes O, He has been talking ONLY to priests but NOW, it is no longer priests but the rest of Israel i.e. you, that are the thieves"? To counter truth, they say "but God said "the whole Nation of you". True but today, most of my readers are of the Nation of believers, not so? Are you all Ibo or Yoruba or Hausa or even Nigerian? In the same manner, there was a Nation of Levites. It was them God spoke to.

PROOF?
A very great test for anyone who wants to know the truth is to ask himself "Who amongst Israel used to (or could) bring food into the Storehouse"? then search the Old Testament for the answer to that question. Could a member of the tribe of Dan bring food into the storehouse? So how come it was him (from that tribe or another aside levites) that God suddenly changed direction and started talking to (when money became concerned) stopping to talk to the levites/priests He had been angry at all along? Then you will know why men like Kunleoshob and Ogajim say what they say - they studied!

My position is this - if you wish to give a ministry 90% of your income, please go ahead. BUT if you do it because you feel you are otherwise robbing God, you have made a gaffe and are wrong. Every single time we see giving in the New Testament, it is a freewill based offering, never legalistic and never under the hammer of fear. Give freely, willingly and out of a sincere heart, not because of the hammer of condemnation

^^^ Agreed to that! Whats your point, bro?

@Noetic:

Been awhile bro. How how? Meanwhile, the question you ought have asked is when God came down to complain to OP for his refusal to recognise/worship/acknowledge Him.

One would think OP (being miffed at this vaingloriousness) ought totally avoid any mention or discussion of "mr yahweh" - on the contrary, he goes around hyperventilating at the thought that "vaingloriousness" hasn't seen him fit enough to count him worthy of ANY mention/regard/consideration whatsoever and so throws insults in hopes of being acknowledged.

How "edifying" to be ignored by your greatest antagonist  We should considdr this thread title being changed to "I am bothered God does not seem to know I exist and it pains me, body, soul and spirit"

Meanwhile,

Ogajim says above that "the devil remains the god of this world". Do you realise you are claiming Joagbaje and Oyakilome's title for satan seeing as "they are god" ?

Or maybe what the truth is, is that they actually ARE satan!

^^^ Your interwoven "sixes" makes me re-consider my position.

Acts 7:34 is an even worse indictment and I was totally unaware of that. Your argument is superior and convincing and my only "rebuttal" is even if it is 99% likely these men are doing these deliberately as cultists, the 1% possibility of coincidence may be worth considering.

Sincerely though, I'm moved to agree with you with all the evidence

Brother:

I get your point but you're not looking at mine. I said Jews, not Judaists. Jews include ALL Israelis regardless of location, religion or political affiliations. In all my readings, the star of David has featured NOT as Judaist but as an Israeli symbol. That is why it is on the Flag of Israel not the Wailing walls or Judaist sites.

I do not say Oyedepo is innocent for using the symbol but only that he can claim what I claim above as his reason. Having NO clear cut proof, we should give him benefit of the doubt. For claritys sake, I believe he has a laundry list of issues which are probably more serious IMO than even cultism. The misuse of God's Word, Holy Oil/kerchiefs, the concept behind Covenant University itself, the flamboyance of style and the taught delusions are only but a symptom of deeper seated issues so I am not excusing him/them.

But you, Aletheia, Enigma, MyJoe etc are people that I believe many see as holding on to truth regardless its painfulness or discomfort. Would we then be found guilty of "assumptions" based on "likelihood"? Thats my point, my bro. Lets stay balanced or find "conclusives"! If they are proved innocent, you discredit yourself for assuming wrongly and many may take your next TRUTH with a pich of salt. If guilt is proved, ou are ridiculed with "clap for yourselves, shebi thats what you hoped for, accusers". The side of caution brings a maturity that will make people come in to read YOUR VIEW alone and hear the real gospel.

An example of such gaffs is Joagbaje's penchant for leaping before looking. I would see such as a joke, and even an embarrassment to his cause. A Pastor who doesn't know or care the difference between Pentagram and Hexagram yet dives in to use them interchangably. Hope you get my point?

Actually, I know the six sided star also is an occultic symbol. However (and again in the interest of fairness), the last two centuries have seen the Jews accept it as a symbol of themselves and[b] it could be argued that its use at CU is symbolic of Israel rather than satanism[/b] whist there can NOT be any doubt where the pentagram is concerned. My understanding is buttressed by your links which describe it as symbolic of the Jews.

Many obviously like to claim links to israel as "children of the NEW nation of such" and Oyedepo cannot know all things. This would inform the possibility of him using it in hopes of being seen as "person of God".

I think where there exists the possibility of "another interpretation" or where "conclusive evidence" is not presented as to motives, we ought give benefit of the doubt. If it were Pentagrams though, no excuses could be given.

^^^

@Image123:

I remain ever amenable to learning and you know I have respect for your thoughts. I would be pleased to read/learn more from you  One thing though which became a problem for me was my assumption that my readers understood my motives and thus MY DELIBERATE refusal to make a legalistic "file" of my thoughts -

[1] 90% (as I stated then) was simplistic  and only intended to keep issues simple.
[2] the King of Sodom referred to "ALL" those who owned the spoils
[3] The portion that went to Abram's companions came out of this same 90%.
[4] etc etc etc

Please do not use the letter of the law (i.e. arguments based on such as above) against me. It is what I fight against most as we are in a dispensation of grace, not law. It smacks of hypocrisy to use the meaning of words when you understand they are allegorical against the source

^^^ Brother,

What you have described above is common on the crime and investigation channel. So many of these guys have been shown for what they are.

The question we need to ask is "IS GOD FAIR and AWARE OF THESE THINGS"? WHAT will He do about it?

I believe He is aware and will recompense everyone according to their acts. There are situations where families destroy their finances (and never recover) because their love and pain at the problem of a child or member, compelled them to "put all" into seeking out a faith healer. I doubt God will forget the use of His name for such falsity. The worst of it all is that whist they ADVERTISE and GUIARANTEE healing as part of the program, the program proper sees a marked departure and suddenly - its YOUR faith thats the problem. If you feel better, its their glorification. If not, its YOUR fault. Meanwhile, fill the envelop with your life savings. This part does not "show" your faith but is compulsory. Its like people forget faith is directed towards God not man when man expects you show it by doing something for his OWN ministry.

I believe they will face far greater shame and condemnation than all others in Heaven. I can imagine them locked in a fiery chamber with followers who will in addition to the flames attack them and use nails, teeth, fist, and their curses till judgement is complete. The word is Torment!

^^^ Wondering here why you bother with these "feel among" people. They are looking for a prophets rewards when prophets rewards have become extinct.

But this Kenneth Copeland thingy is an amazement to me. I have NEVER counted any man as special and so refuse to read commentaries on the Word of God (e.g ROR, Daily guide). I believe that even if sincere, the view they portray is what God's Spirit showed "THEM" for their peculiar situation. Since God is Supreme, He can show me "MY" understanding so I read the Bible alone. That probably informs my shallow knowledge of these so called MOGs.

Can anyone point me to where I can find more info on Copeland and his supposed "opposition" to God? Please note I am not looking for confirmation BUT information. I know the people I trust here

@Jesoul:

Do you believe the Pope who said "So profitable has this fable of Jesus Christ been to us" and Chris Oyakilome are blind guides? I think NOT!

I mainly agree with MyJoe and very little with DeepSight. Like my razor-sharp guybabe Tudor (just joking: swords have been sheathed ) once told me, not everyone can read or has brains. Religious participation also by its nature does not ask questions and so most people become (as the Bible says) "sheep". I am certain the Bible deliberately uses that "dumbest" of animals to describe most christians. Without a shepherd (or conversely with a bad one), what you have is that most people mill around without focus and are readily pushed in whatever direction the shepherd or predator decides.

Personal responsibility will likely be handled by a just Father God on the basis of exposure, initiative and environment and I think with that, we have solution to Jesoul's submission that both deceiver and deceived are guilty. It would be relative guilt, not absolute.

[size=4pt]can't help but feel good I invited MyJoe's participation here. Now if I could only find that fantasist Krayola so I get 2 great minds opposing the 1 mistake I made[/size]

Joagbaje:
forgive jare, 5 sided star 6 sided star. My mistake. But if you read my post well , Even if it's five sided star. I believe in the ministry of David Oyedepo as a man of God. Whatever design it was is to the glory of God. Using Jewish symbol. I thought the pentagram is 5 sided anyway.

Joagbaje:
kí ló n se this school BOY? always looking for trouble

Your posts above show your shallowness. Whether it is true or not, is not your problem. Also, whether it edifies or not, is not your problem. As long as you choose to believe, that is all - just like you believe you are God. And just as you thought the star of David has five sides, you are as usual wrong!

Pentagrams ARE five sided (with all we wrote above, you still didn't decipher that? ) And whether Hexa or Penta, they are not Jewish symbols. Hex means 6 and pent means 5.

I'm not looking for trouble, uncle "agbaya" - just wondering how an old man who is supposed to be educated cannot read 5 and know it means "five"

Thank you SleekyMag. I was scared (and disappointed at Oyedepo) when Joagbaje said he used Pentagrams on his campus.

Obviously another rush to show his "extraordinary" kingdom revelation has ended with his foot entering inside his mouth (as usual).

Pentagram ko, Pentacle ni!

@Joagbaje:

You just spoiled everything and confirmed biomes2001 as knowing what he is saying. I never would have believed a MOG would use a pentagram in ANYWAY on his campus whether decorative or not. Now its obvious something is definitely wrong with this oyedepo cat.

[size=13pt]First your assertion of the pentagram being the Star of David. Thats is a LIE! The Pentagram is a five sided star whist the star of David is a six sided (Hexagram) star.[/size]

Whist the Star of David is todays symbol of Judaism and has become a badge of honor for Israelis through the world, the Pentagram is the wiccan symbol. BTW, wiccans are the society of witchcraft.

See below references

Pentagrams were used symbolically in ancient Greece and Babylonia, and are used today as a symbol of faith by many Wiccans
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagram

Pentagram - Symbol used in Witchcraft. Represents the elements, earth, wind, fire and water with the spirit surrounding them.
www.exposingsatanism.org/signsymbols.htm

The Pentagram and Pentacle are commonly the most famous symbols of Witchcraft, and are symbolic of the power of Spirit as the overriding power
www.controverscial.com/Pentagram%20-%20Pentacle.htm

It is usually attached to a Ram's head. I hope Joagbaje knows the symbolism of a Ram's head in the Bible!

Star of David

In Kabbalah, the Star of David symbolizes the six directions of space plus the center, under the influence of the description of space
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_of_David

It is a Hexagram.

Star of David - Magen David
Star The Magen David (shield of David, or as it is more commonly known, the Star of David) is the symbol most commonly associated with Judaism today
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/star.html

Today the Star of David is a universally recognized symbol of Jews. It appears on the flag of the state of Israel
If truly, hostels and buildings in CU are five sided, there is definitely something wrong with Oyedepo and I do not need hand signals to know what he is into is worse than FreeMasonry.

I believe Mad_Max is referring to DeepSight with the above, right?

And its true - these people are programmed to believe only in the pastor's words. To help set them off on that path, commentaries are written on the Bible and sold to the congregation. These have multiple scripture verses sprinkled in them to give the impression that you are studying the Bible. However, a more fleshy interpretation is then interspersed within the scripture. That "diluting" is all thats neccessary to turn right into "error". I remember being told when I "manipulated" truth as a high school kid by my mum that I was acting like the devil. She said he takes 90% truth and adds just 10% error. The Bible supports this when it says "Dead flies spoil the perfumers ointment and a little folly destroys much wisdom"

Because people like to "feel among", the leaders then turn all into a "us VERSUS them" thing making themselves out to be victims of "ungodly" people. Well presented and planned, acolytes would fight to death against anything contrary to such views/doctrines. The most common manner of recognising these is the "leader" who is quiet and doesn't defend himself but with followers ready to support the most bizarre issues concerning such. Fanaticism then sets in as is required with error at which time, reprobacy is in view.

@DeepSight:

Way I see it, harm does not have to be physical or even physiological initially. There is the mental torture involved in "hoping" that a miracle will appear because you've been brain-washed into believing the more you give and are "faithful" with tithes, the closer you are to financial glorification. Rather than build wealth the old fashioned time tested way (hard work, perseverance and "luck", these people start to hope against reason and that is why we get the "Lawrence Agada's" of this world who would steal 39 Million yet not use a dime for themselves but rather take all to "church". He wanted something in return and it definitely was not the jail cell where he writes his memoirs today.

That man kept hoping, praying, claiming and probably expecting an angel would come down to "refund" his "labor of love" and "obedience". It is a peculiar delusion that many of us have also faced and so we know the "harm" it does. Consider that by the time many come out of it, they're either financially or emotionally wrecked. To a Christian, the worst part of it all is that Christianity turns into scam in the victims pysche and these cannot separate the wheat from the chaff so believe all are criminal. However, where there is no 400 Naira note, there cannot be a fake 400 Naira note.

It is harmful! The freedom of choice you believe exists shouldn't come from someone who has studied eastern religions - you know what a mantra does over a period of time, don't you? Just as ou didn't become a lawyer in a day, no-one becomes mugu in same. What they are fed gradually erode their ability to think for self and fight wrong teachings

@Ogajim:

Twould be really nice you let us know these symbols at CU. Denver airport has had a lot of controversy over the new "anubis" stature being set up there in addition to many others that had been there in the past. It would be nice to know what our people here are putting up. I for my part, have never visited Oyedepo's churches or school(s) so have no idea so I'd really love to know whats there.

Joagbaje;

In the interest of peace, truth and for the edification of the Children of God, your pastor should come out publicly and denounce FreeMasonry as evil, devilish and not appealing to him. That would -

[1] Shut up "Biomes2001
[2] Ensure that those here who are tempted to follow his line of reasoning repent of the "false accusation"
[3] Give credence to his status before Christ as at least, a non cultist

I still believe your chris is likely innocent of THIS charge. but he could settle it easily. Talk to him.

^^^ Brother:

Based on what you've said here on them saying of themselves "I AM THAT I AM", I know Joagbaje is not a FreeMason. If he was, he'd be saying he was his own god and not chris oyakilome.

What you've written above (to Inesqor) makes sense when you say our belief (or absense of it) changes not the reality. But it also applies to your belief if you are wrong. So please let me ask you - the only way I think you can prove these allegations is if yourself, you are/were one of them. Were you a freemason? What manner of proof aside these hand "gestures" do you have?

Please remember I am NOT saying you're wrong. But in courts of truth, men are innocent till proved guilty NO MATTER what the feeling of on-lookers is.

Twould be so nice Oyakilome condemned them publicly. But I'll wager a lot that he will never do so. Why, I wonder!

^^^ Welcome back! Where have you been?

@Joagbaje and Tonye-t:

Balance this -

The [1] lies against God [2] lies against man [3] manipulation of God's Word to control Men

versus

[1] Abuse of you [2] impatience with your vacuous postulations [3] refusal to conform to your fake gospel

The first is applicable to you and the second to me. Whist I concur that I could be more easy about it, you have taken licence to go haywire in your efforts yet wish me easy. In effect, whist you are uncontrollable, you would insist I be muzzled. Fie!

Joagbaje:

your anointing comes from your father rabbi master teacher "chris" and its purpose is that you become as adept in lying, stealing and manipulating as he is. God would use you but you refuse His Spirit expression in you and cry "wolf" when truth confronts you.

God's Blessings be upon you, Africankel. May His will come to pass in your life.

^^^ Gunnaz (my esteemed kisser ),

You guys don't get me! Joagbaje keeps on with "I am Christ" etc so I keep on with "Lawrence Agaba". Stop the self-righteousness posturing and I'll stop the "bringing you down to earth". Why would I state there's not enough proof (for ME) that your pastor is a cultist in "New Age, , " if I hated him or have agenda against him?

What you keep saying is that you are "God/Christ". Well, God does not steal and does not have such fruit. So consider this as a wake-up call. We are simply human and thus prone to "human failings". When you forget that, I remind you. BTW, my wife knows she's human. Joagbaje does not and he is making "regular" people believe same about themselves! That IMO, is a licence for them to do as they wish yet claim superiority over others. Very unbecoming.

biomes2001:
nuclearboy can u explain what u mean here?

Joagbaje is a pastor at Christ Embassy. I suppose then that he is relatively close to the "top" i.e. Chris Oyakilome of CE. I expect him or one of the others in his "close to the top" position, to alert Oyaks to all the embarrassment being caused the body of Christ by the things been bandied about them all over. Doing something to "correct" the situation would be tantamount to "support" for the Name of Christ. As it is (as they're quiet about it all), it shows a disrespect for whatever is said suggesting that they are "above" all others and so infallible and beyond correction!

story story, storie. Mr tortoise went to the market and bought a nuclear bomb in 1215 AD then took it to the US that was only discovered 500 years later and became the antichrist. - Joagbaje!

Joagbaje, answer Aletheia's query and supply SCRIPTURE to support different levels of anointing! Then deal with posts #14, #16, #18 and #25 which ou have selectively ignored as usual

^^^ I wonder why you are displaying teeth. Even on the web, your breath stinks, your teeth are brownish and stained with the blood you suck from your mugus.

All over NL, multiple posts from multiple posters have spoken of the intimacy caliber of your members! You want to tell me you've not read them? In my own capacity, I have a staff who attends your church - whist not a professional peddler, her conduct is scary. Imagine a young woman being picked up from work (and/or visited) by over 20 cars weekly. She's always declaring fast food joint surpluses for the young guys. I watched her closely in the past cos I feared she might have learnt the "lawrence Agaba" gambit so I know. When her fellow "choir" members visit, I fear for my "guys" safety. The conversation is "deadly!

Want to hear more?