₦airaland Forum

DeepSight:

Moses ministered to people who had a slave mentality after being treated like animals for 400 years. I'm sure you can find allegories to that in the present day. Wild, cruel and unreasoning, such usually believe in taking whatever they wish with the use of violence. You're like advocating for serial killers in todays world to be slapped on the wrist and told to go and sin no more. The laws he gave them would have[b] forced[/b] some sort of order. Remember that the same source of your information also details how often these same people rebelled even after seeing some things many of us would give our front teeth to have experienced.

I believe you treat malaria, typhoid and Cancer with different medication. Those guys Moses dealt with had an as yet undefined HIV virus in their psyche

@DeepSight:

Do you agree the books of Isaiah, the Psalms and others that pointed to the future Messiah are factual? My answer is mainly based on these so I need to know your mindset on these issues. I apologize if I seem defensive but you are coming at me using the word "myth" which suggests you already made up your mind.

And yes, History has represented many great figures (not just spiritual e.g. Alexander and the Caesars) as self-deified. Jesus on the other hand, was followed but not really deified until (as accounts put it), a sequence of events made disciples who were afraid when He was in their midst, become bold even unto death. I also wondered and would have you tell me - for how many hundreds/thousands of years were any of these you mentioned deified? That is actually an aside. Lets talk Isaiah and books from the OT

Yisraylite:

And I'm onto you like white on rice. Go figure!

Now, substitute Yeshua (Jesus) for YAHAWAH in every one of your torah quotes! The idea is that Yeshua/YAHAWAH chooses how He manifests. Have you done that? Lets see you now prove the names are not interchangable. John 1:1 says they are. Satan's only problem with anything is Jesus and a valid means of salvation. Argue your daddy's case!

I answered your question, boy! If you suddenly find English tough, would that be because you've nothing to say? My answer was that both accounts complement each other and speak of the same entity. We await your "proof" that this assertion is wrong.

Prove that Is 43:11, Is 45:21, Titus 3:6 and Titus 2:13 do not speak of the same entity. In effect, prove that Jesus is not Jehovah from those scriptures. You used them to support a position. Now PROVE (spelt P R O V E) from these what you claim so we move from theories to FACTS. Don't ask me where the name Jesus is in the OT except if you can first show me the exact word Jehovah in Titus 2:13.

My thought process is not on trial here. Use your own judgment on yourself and answer the above. The answer you sought from me is above AGAIN.

You wrote
QUOTE
That would be like saying You were born before your Father who existed before you. doesn't make a lick of sense
UNQUOTE

Dude, show me Jehovah in John 6:54 and I'll show you Jesus in the OT! Or are you finally accepting Jesus and Jehovah are the same?

Whose pants are on fire now? Better go back to the beanstalk and ask your daddy jack for help with halftruths

Before you leave this page, start your "persecution" thus

No more smileys. No more sarcasm. No more insults. Lets now use your TRUTH if indeed it is truth and doesn't require crutches to make you feel good

Prove that your last quote - Mal 2:2 "If you will not hear, And if you will not take it to heart, To give glory to My Name," Says YAHAWAH of hosts, "I will send a curse upon you, And I will curse your blessings. Yes, I have cursed them already, because you do not take it to heart." does not refer to Jesus.

The one thing I expect is for you to ask where the name Jesus Christ appears in the OT or in that quote. Don't try that except if you can show me YAHAWAH in Jhn 6:54. Lets see you apply your rules to yourself

As you are wont to say,

Salamah

Yisraylite:
@ nuclearboy

Yeap that pretty much sums it up my point of view? wow! you really dissapoint me, everything I have quoted is in your Bible, The NAME of THE CREATOR may have been replaced with Lord God, but the writtings are the same, Open your eyes Bro and quit being stiffnecked!

There can be only one right account so which one do you believe?

You want me to stand up for what I believe in, right?

Prove that Is 43:11, Is 45:21, Titus 3:6 and Titus 2:13 do not speak of the same entity. In effect, prove that Jesus is not Jehovah from those scriptures. You used them to support a position. Now PROVE (spelt P R O V E) from these what you claim so we move from theories to FACTS. Don't ask me where the name Jesus is in the OT except if you can first show me the exact word Jehovah in Titus 2:13.

No more saving face. No more daft smileys to cover the holes and pass across an impression of success. Use what you expect of me on yourself. I await

@yisraylite:

Okay, so now I am your life.

To help, you'll find me at AUTOS, RELIGION and BUSINESS.

Comeback? Curse God? People classification? Sunday?! Respect for RCC? Seems throwing everything plus your obvious physical disabilites and the waste your mind so readily conjures up makes you feel manly and believe you've reached an imaginary audience! Was a time I felt there was more to you but you are trying very hard and succeeding in showing your emptiness.

You give the impression that you're content with the belief system you have. Why then show so much vituperation at everyone? Your past posts show not much more than an immature probably impotent guy reduced to getting his kicks from being a nuisance. You'd probably fit the profile of a serial rapist. Not one single post in your infamous past here provides any link to more than a sick desire to annoy, infuriate and get under the skin of others. Since I now am target, you support Chukwudi44. Yet, the same guy was a target for you prior to now.

You stand for nothing and like nothing, you get nowhere. In sincerity though, your nuisance level here has been commendable. Better get on your knees and ask your impotence be cured! With renewed manliness will come a smile and zest for life

That was rather obvious from the onset.

A Christian wouldn't deny Christ, would he? That was why I sounded you out by calling you "Jew" or your memory doesn't serve you that far back? Whatever you call yourself, Christian cannot be applied to you.

Also, Chukwudi44 isn't a Christian. He's a Catholic, a son of that church. Which is why I said you'd join forces.

Isn't it instructive that its Christ that is always the problem. Maybe cos you all have the same father, the original liar!

[s]Funny you speak of busting, fraud and lies. That is the trademark of your guiding spirit.[/s]

You flatter and celebrate me!

So now you go around seeking my posts? You call Jesus fake, claim the NT is a fake and then when I suggest the impetus is cheap brandy, you follow me around and claim redress for insults real and imagined!

I wonder what in my posts is so important that you leave your empty life to follow me around seeking that I continue to converse with you. Anyways, welcome to this thread. Now the one claiming his "form" of Christianity created the Bible, named the books therein and is Divine is in touch with the one that claims all of those books and the system behind them are a lie.

But I wager none of you will notice the other who ought be your natural enemy. Its true apostolic belief that will come under attack. So join forces and prove that Christianity's greatest enemies wear the robe and answer the name whist denying the essence.

Let the barking begin

When God allowed Satan to test Job, He had a purpose. Same with when Jesus was nailed to the cross. Yet in your blind devotion, you do not see God's hand behind the putting together of the Bible and claim it belongs to the RCC. You are very wise! Same for the naming of the "gospels". What you do not realize is that just as satan did not become "godly" when he "arranged Job's trials and the crucifixion of Jesus, the RCC does not have claim to divinity or godliness because it put together the books in today's Bibles. Or we could put it thus: The RCC is as godly for putting together the Bible as Satan is for killing Jesus and bringing the purpose of God into reality.

Satan has always been a tool in God's hands. Its after the fact that he usually realizes he's been outwitted yet again and then he goes berserk yelling insults, killing people and making noise. That is why I will not bother to call you names. Its obvious you're carrying multiple demons which have taken over the faculties in you that would otherwise have made you realize you've played so well into this threads purpose and shown everyone what drives you is power, lust and anger. You show no maturity, manners or upbringing. Rather, your demeanor is that of a demon whipped by Angels and who, needing to express its anger, bites itself in the arm to show its manliness.

Now I command you, bark some more

Its regrettable people see truth as hatred. You don't even deny your atrocities (obviously you can't) but rather justify them by pointing out the faults of others. Were I to call you a fool now, could I justify that before the Lord who said that was tantamount to murder by saying you did it 2ce? But then, you are of your father, Satan the Pope, so you needs must be murderous and hope your hatred will kill me and mine.

My generation is of those who serve God not human institutions who try to change the laws, seasons and purposes of God. When we exist no more, the moon, sun and stars will no longer give their light

You've served your purpose here. Go play elsewhere.

Basically, you revile Jesus, believe the NT fake and its message false. Your quotes can be divided into two - those relating to the gentiles living inside Israel and those relating to everyone on Earth after God had split the curtain and stopped separating. The quotes you claim support your point of view and that you see as relating to the entirety of earth, Christians believe became available through Christ. You deny this! What then is the basis of our conversation? We believe in different things and neither of us will shift his ground.

Enjoy yourself looking for ways to sit in your comfort zone.

Do you know why all the quotes that defend your "form" are so readily available to you? Because rather than the Word of God, you have fed on the Word of your form of "christianity"? Every argument that tries (yet fails) to portray the RCC in a perfumed light as in your arsenal. Why can't you use the Word of God to defend yourself except Matt 27 for Matt 13? You speak of my quote as though your "Canon choosers" had a spirit that could discern the truth? When was the Bible put together? When did reality make it obvious a prophecy had been fulfilled? Why can't you do the math?

And now you present wikipedia and wikipedia and again wikipedia as the Holy Infallible scriptures to defend the lies you were fed and brought up on and then confirm the murderous pedigree of your "form" by not only calling a dissenting voice a fool but then judging that you are right. Since you claim your "form" is divine, I guess you also stand in the place of God.

Better wake up and face God rather than man. and leave the stories aside. Only point here worth both your while is if your "form" is following Jesus Christ's teachings of fulfilling the laws and seasons and times AND NOT adding to them?

Time to move ahead with this thread. You've served admirably well in passing the point across as to how Christianity has misrepresented by seekers of wealth, power and earthly power.

@Chairman Viaro:

Don't know what happened o. I wonder if the "carbonated drinks" I've been taking all day have not intoxicated me

@OP:

My apologies for the mix-up concerning your sex if I got it wrong. Viaro breathed carbonated life into me

Dude, I named one old muslim chap here Voltron for his comic attempts to defend the indefensible. You, I re-christen "Daftron". I started out actually irritated at you. Your last post has me bent in half with laughter. I will not go down the path of verbose responses with you but I wonder

[1] Who were the people YAHAWAH was speaking to in your "ONLY" true testament?
[2] Did the promises YAHAWAH make therein include others outside His "then" called out people; Israel?
[3] I remember you stating your being not a Jew. If so, what concerns your pagan YAHAWAH "cursed" a*se with the covenant and promises YAHAWAH gave His people, the Jews in the OT?
[4] The "fake" testament opened His promises to all of creation. Since it is fake, that invitation to us (you included) is fake so why are you not on your knees worshiping baal or nimrod or living in sodom and gomorrah?
[5] How dare you consider Him as God? You were rejected thousands of years ago by Him if the NT is fake and your father is satan.

OP has been disappointed by her "tutors" and has decided to refuse to believe, at least in what was "forced" down her. However, something inside her still believes there's some sort of "God" which she finds difficult to define or understand.

This would suggest she's neither Atheist nor Agnostic since she cares - her presence here and desire to search further removes her from those two camps. What she is, is searching for her own reality. As WIRINET says

QUOTE
Every individuals assembles his universe like a jig-saw puzzle using different pieces from his background, exposure, personality, education, and interests, that is why no two people can have identical sets of beliefs
UNQUOTE

Lets allow her search rather than complicate it further

The beauty of this conversation is that our readers can see why there are many "christianities". As I have earlier said and still maintain, God is not the problem. Neither is Christianity. However, some people would sit on thrones at any cost. Enter the combination of state and power. Why do you not provide us another example in history where any system held such claim of state and divinity yet emanated from God. Nebuchadnezzar? Alexander? The Caesars? Attila the Hun? You can't Bro, but you are showing us your "form".

The only problem I still see is your newly broadcast claim of the divine nature of the RCC. I'm surprised an educated person would suggest that longevity translates to Divinity. Take a look at Satan, Chukwudi44 and consider he has been around at least 6,000 years. Is He too Divine/of God?

Let me use the bible to explain your RCC. "One of the heads seemed to have a fatal wound, but the fatal wound was healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast. Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked 'Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him'" Rev 13:3 & 4. After Bertier the French General pulled the pope off his throne in the 18th century and had him quartered, the idea was that the RCC was dead. Enter the early 20th century and it was resuscitated. All that simply brings to fulfillment a prophecy. Your only claim to divinity is that it lasted 2000 years. Doesn't the above explain it away? I'd rather be mortal and truly affiliated to God than an infernal damned immortal "mortal". At least the Apostles were mortal and never claimed the divinity you now ascribe to your "form".

@all:

I had half hoped the specific last three posters wouldn't notice this little altercation. One thing that gets under my skin is men worshiping other men and human institutions.

I find myself guilty of as it were, helping derail this thread somewhat though again, our "fight" may have informed a few people out there about the realities of our history and that its not Christianity that has issues but its "supposed" adherents creating their forms of it.

@Viaro:

You must be the 9th wonder of the known world - never heard of carbonated "booze" drink intoxicating anyone 

You ask which came 1st between the "ORIGINAL" testament and the "FAKE NEW" testament. My answer is that there are two testaments in the Scriptures and the OLD testament precedes the NEW testament. My refusal to answer was based on the words you used. Except you can prove the "fakeness" of either one of these, something is wrong with your question.

As to precedence between Scriptures, I'd like to see you date the two. The fact that the Redeemer spoke to Cyrus does not provide a dating. He could have said this at the beginning of creation and made it known to Isaiah in his day. John 1:1 has the same explanation IMO. Again here, what matters is that both are contained in the Scriptures. The language form does not allow precedence.

Thanks for the appellation "Genius". To my own mind, that word is not applicable to you in any form.

Your attempts at humor would be laughable were they not ridiculous. As earlier stated, its obvious you've nothing to say outside Sunday! And I do not follow the creed your myopic mind dictates to you. Ever heard of such as the Seventh Day Adventist? Not that I attend that church but so do I not have any denomination or worship day. To humor you, Jew, tell me -

what are the issues you believe you've raised?

Funny that as you typed your drivel, another Catholic "image" of yourself was also attacking me. See my response at https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-369280.64.html#msg5184780. Where you've missed it is I'm a believer rather than member of any denomination.

I notice you are not giving kudos to your partner "the_seeker" now. That clown pointed out that the original greek called Jesus "A God" rather than "God". Yet after calling Him divine thus, he follows a religion that says Jesus is a slave.

I wonder what you will do if your donkey or dog falls into a ditch on a Saturday. Leave it there, I suppose since it is a Holy day?

Both OT and NT in this case serve my purpose. Take your pick and defend the hole in your head

@Chukwudi44:
Strange that your defense is of man and not God. But I forget the Pope is the representative of God on earth. The Vicar of the Son of God. You sit self-righteous claiming no-one stood against your "form" of christianity for 15 hundred years forgetting that those who history documents as doing so died at the stake, or were used for arrow target practice or boiled alive or had stones tied around their necks and drowned. Ever heard of the Dark ages and the inquisition?

I still maintain this thread is meant to show that there remains a true Christianity practiced by the Apostles and early Christians which didn't involve swords or the combination of Religious and Political Power as your Mother church exhibited.

Why are you so fraudulent about those who were with Jesus, I quoted Matt 13 and you now tell us who was with Jesus in Matt 27. Where do you find Mark 15 in my post? Or Luke 24? Or John 19? Is it possible you use the bible to show me that it was the wife of cleopas in Matt 13. Hey, I just remembered. It was a number of Pigs that were with Jesus when the Gadarene Demoniac was cured. Maybe their leaders were the ones nailed to the left and right of Jesus. Those pigs were thieves too, you know, as they stole the man's demons and ran off clapping with them! Maybe it was the leader of the pigs called "chuks4ever" that was crucified on the left of Jesus just as the wife of Cleopas is suddenly transubtutated (?) to Matt 13! One can never trust the Bible to tell the truth about the real people with Jesus, you know! Only the RCC can interpret.

And unlike the Popes, I know no-one who lived in the 1st 4 centuries. These "successors" to His Holiness, Pope Simon Peter the Immaculate disciple of Jesus knew those who lived then and boiled them all alive destroying all their testimony so mainly only the writings the Holy Killers allowed to remain stayed. They are your church fathers including such as the celibate Borgia Pope who fathered such as Lucrezia.

Finally yes, Paul was not among the 12. Judas Iscariot was the 12th and his name is written in your Rev 21:14. Hopefully and IJN, you'll be under Judas wing and share his room in the hereafter as his PA, abi?

@the_seeker:

You ran away and now claim you "proved". Your desire to push lies as truth has you going about repeating the same lies over and over that you won arguments whist what you did in that thread was "make" a plea to my "conscience" and gradually slink back into shadows! And in what writings did your "pholisopher" Philo write John 1:1? Give us references rather than your story-telling.

The message of the Bible is Love. For God and then your fellow man. These two settle everything. Your message is the Sword which is why Islam is called in Arabic "The religion of the sword" and why your saudi flag carries a sword under the words relating your allah's sovereignty and his choice of Muhammad. Every Biblical injunction points to you being in the face of your fellow man. do you know what it means to be in another person's face? Wild donkeys kick, fight, go on rampages. That was the prophecy made of Ishmael and why God rejected him. God does not like the Sword. He always chose Shepherds and farmers over fighters and hunters. That is why love/truth/peace are anathema to you and why your screen name is a sham. Get out of my face!

@Yisraylite:

We know Saturday was the Sabbath. However, like every other day, it was made for us rather than the other way around and every day, the Lord is worthy of worship. Your repeated vituperation over this singular issue suggests your scholarship starts and ends on this note.

Where did you see anyone say Emmanuel means Jesus and why does the order in which I placed the 2 quotes matter? Does your perch on the order not make it obvious you had nothing to say? Isn't it rather obvious that "Emmanuel" is more of a Title that the prophecy referred to a "personality" that would be God in our midst? You are (I hope) a human being. Does human being mean Yisraylite? See why you ought to think and drop your snifter of cheap brandy before you sit before a keyboard? At least your ally is waiting to get to al janaah before he starts his boozing! I asked you to share your understanding and your understanding is slinging insults about critical thinking. Ah well, bullies have no other recourse but to shout and keep doing so in the hope that raised voices will make their victims cower in fear.

You and your ally might carry swords but my staff will crack those empty heads

@Chukwudi44:

I thought you said Mary was the mama of the Lord God Almighty. How is that possible if Yaradua's mummy is not the mama of Nigeria? Mary gave birth to the Human "fleshed" Jesus who refused worship till he rose again; as Mavenbox would call it, the actor Jesus, a mirror image (lateral inversion, if you like) not the Spirit and Power of Creation.

Your official list of Popes is interesting. However, the Bible says that Paul was Apostle to the Gentiles. Considering that every single "pope" has been a gentile, Paul ought to be the first pope. But you wanted a claim to the keys of the kingdom of heaven so Peter it had to be!

Did you notice your comment about the RCC "form" of Christianity? Thats the problem here. There are no forms of Christianity. This thread said the RCC created its own form. You rejected that assertion. Yet now and in even stronger words, you state it yourself. And you mention the Nicolaitans, Marcionites, etc. Some historical literature state that the Bishops of Rome had not only their leaderships and manifestations wiped out but even 3 of the ten tribes of Europe as well. You guys had military power that you utilized and now you say they disappeared because they were not of God. But they did cos they were not of the RCC "form"

I would like to keep this thread on track. However, if you would like to see a true attack on your RCC, I will oblige you. Again I say, it is not right we allow atheists and Muslim ridicule the God we serve because of our own pride. Accept that you formed your own particular style and felt naming Peter as your founder/first pope gave you a feeling of legitimacy or do not even accept. But please allow us show there is only one way that Christ showed and it is not found in ANY denomination or "form". It is an individual Spiritual worship of God "for such does the Lord seek".

Let me return to the issue of Mary's Children: Mark 6:3 says "Isn't this the Carpenter?Isn't this Mary's son and the brother of James and Joseph? Aren't his sisters here with us? And they took offense at him".
Take a look at Matt 13: 55- 56.
Then at Luke 8: 19 -20.
Then at John 2:12.

Twould be nice to see what the Vulgate has to say about this?

@OP: I don't want to sound critical but you should have grabbed and brought back at least a Kg of Gold. Twould have prevented the hunger that sent you there before time

Yisraylite:
@ KunleOshob

I see the finger prints of the Vatican all over those scripts Bro

NO WHERE IN THE ORIGINAL TESTAMENT DOES IT SAY THAT JESUS CHRIST CREATED ANYTHING!

Isa 44:24 Thus says YAHAWAH, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: "I AM YAHAWAH, Who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself

Did you get that! So much for Christianity's Jesus Christ whom they claim to be a co-creator with their God. AYAH says HE Spread abroad the earth BY HIMSELF!!

Isa 45:18 For thus says YAHAWAH, Who created the heavens, Who is The Creator, Who formed the earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did not create it in vain, Who formed it to be inhabited: "I am YAHAWAH, and there is no other. 

That's right, there is no other creator, co- creator, or otherwise for AYAH is ONE- Deu 6:4- "Hear, O Yisrayl: YAHAWAH is our FATHER, YAHAWAH is One!

NOT THREE IN ONE!!!!

THE CREATOR DID IT ALL BY HMSELF BRO!
NO US IN THESE SCRIPTS!! WORD TO THE WISE!

In light of your post above, explain John 1:1. Then jusmp to Isaiah calling Emmanuel the Prince of Peace, The Mighty God etc and explain that too. Finally David said "The Lord said to my Lord, sit down at my right hand etc". Please share your understanding of these words in the Scriptures.

Whatever you wish to say abot KunleOshob, do not accuse him of being a Trinitarian.

viaro:
Let's no turn this thread into another 'us versus Catholics' saga - there are several threads already where such wrestlings have been staged ('staged' - perhaps for the entertainment of bemused onlookers who wonder how the 'children of God' could drop all grace and trade fists on one another's faces). Instead, we might share on the subjects you had highlighted about relationships. What do you say?

Oga mi: I concur

Mavenbox: We're waiting on you. And whist yes, you've not specified consummation within the scope of your notes on relationship, I think you've at least shown one area that we can accept as "settled" i.e. premarital sex.

So yes, let's progress the thread

Viaro:

I get your point and accept much of your correction

However, why do we have people defending church doctrines rather than Christ? Seems to me the height of insincerity. I agree the RCC made its own contributions and today, they remain the greatest "helper" ministry on earth providing livelihood, scholarship etc to a myriad of young people. And there was the assertion that I was lying - Is it possible yesternight was Judgment day and Chukwudi44 was Jehovah Almighty?

Still, it needs be said that it was under their "reign" that most of the other movements started and that mainly to protest so many issues. This thread was meant to show that whist we all seem to have our own "Christianities" today, the beginning was united and the Word of God is one.

Chukwudi44:

The above clarifies my desire for this thread. I will answer only one of the defenses you've just put forward now. Mary the Mother of God issue - True, Yaradua's mum is mother to the President but she is not the mother of Nigeria. Do you see the difference? Sweeping statements like the Mother of God issue are making Christianity a subject of scorn. Remember that Mary gave birth to other Children. I can just imagine Tudor showing up here and saying Joseph cuckolded God. That is the result of such statements

Let me show you the difference.

My background INSISTS and influences that I test ALL spirits to know if they are from God. My God asks me to check to be sure that whatever I see/hear/feel is not a mirage. When I see truth, I hold on to it.

Your background INSISTS you DO NOT ask any questions that if answered about your religion , would cause you problems. When you see something that makes sense, still you needs must deny it

That is the difference. As per showing you, read this thread from the beginning. That will show you how people can see the truth and still deny. One particularly funny portion relates to the Egyptians coloration

@Vortex:

Hello! It seems as if you missed my point. I was trying to point out the absoluteness of God with what I wrote earlier. A lot of people will read the Bible and say God allowed killing and even requested it. I believe that God is Supreme, Loving and Just. However, it is the same God that specifies He created Good and Evil and that if evil gets to a place, He knows about it. I didn't say He does Evil.

I was trying to say that for the sake of interpretation, maybe it is better that we realize God is answerable to no-one. Saying God is good or God is bad is passing a judgment (as it were). God transcends those words simply because whatever He does or allows is not left to us to assess! I hope you understand now.

Please click on my username and use the appropriate link to read my previous posts so you know where I stand. Jesus is my Lord and Source!

@the_seeker:

My responses made sense even to you. Your background doesn't allow you acknowledge that openly.

I didn't say anything about Allah and your prophet that were not accepted by your peers earlier in this same thread. Except for my own deductions concerning the "usefulness" of a promise which would make people welcome and in fact seek death.