₦airaland Forum

@Abuzola:

You still haven't responded to my query. Following the Koran as we have done above, which would you determine would rule your kingdom? Son or Servant (and which here is the son and which the servant)?

Strange that I don't even need the Bible in these issues! The Koran is truly my friend and illuminating

@Poster:

Suppose you contacted HIV and then get married and have children. I'm not a medic but believe the "innocent" baby will also have HIV. When Adam sinned (got HIV), he had not had any children and in effect, the "disease was in his and Eve's loins when they bore children who thus automatically had the Disease by reason of heredity.

You could wonder why HIV or HBP or Diabetes, race or skin color is transferred from generation to generation but its not likely you can change the fact that they are, indeed, hereditary and therefore part of the child itself!

Or maybe you know a white couple who gave birth to a black child. , ,

@My dear Abuzola:

I would have said there were two of them i.e. Adam and Jesus. However, Adam lost his right to sonship when he was banished from God's presence (as it were, disowned) because of his sin and so yes, I say Jesus is the only begotten son.

There are deliberate mischievious misrepresentations pointing towards David etc because of verses deliberately misused for trouble mongering . However, all reasonable people accept and remember that David et al had earthly fathers and so the statements attributed to them were prophecies pointing towards a son who would have no earthly father, as such would start off "CLEAN" i.e. free from sin and most of all would end off "CLEAN". Let me use the Koran and Islamic literature again here:

Koran 3:55b: Here Allah says "I will make those who follow you (Jesus) superior to those who disbelieve till the day of resurrection"

Hadith Mishkat (Vol IV page 80): this says "when Jesus comes back, he will establish the Kingdom of God on earth in which there will remain no mutual Hatred, jealousy, enmity and rancour"

Given your (Muslims) belief that Muhammad was the last and "greatest" prophet, why does YOUR OWN literature specify Allah (God) choosing our dear carpenter (as you like to call him) over all of mankind (including Muhammad) to rule God's Kingdom? Which brings me to a logical conclusive question:: > Which would you choose to rule your kingdom? Your Son or your Servant?

So tell me Brother, who's the son here (as expressed by the Holy Koran)?

@ABUZOLA

Only Begotten Son:

As I noted earlier in this same thread, where Jesus is concerned, we have a serious issue. Both Koran and Bible agree that He did not have an earthly father. As I asked then, who was the father of this person?

[1] A man (which means both Koran and Bible lied)
[2] an angel or satan (which also means both Koran and Bible lied)
[3] God (which you disagreed with)
     or
[4] the guy is a magician/amazing character who just appeared separate from God and man? which would mean He is at least equal to God who couldn't stop him.

Burden of proof is on me that it can be only [3] since you've declared it cannot be any of the other alternatives. Lets go ,  ,


Background: Adam was closest to being regarded as Son of God since He too did not have a father on earth but was breathed on by God Himself.

According to the Koran, Allah favored Mary and spoke to her (Mary) and it was so! A child was born!!!

Let me now use an allegory that you might understand better:

Abuzola, please touch yourself where-ever you are right now reading this piece. If I am right, you touched your Head or something on your face or neck or breast or d**k or whatever!

That was what you touched (your head or nose or whatever) and not Abuzola.

I want you to touch the totality (specificness) of what is "Abuzola". You will notice that this cannot be done as whatever you touch will be only one part of your body (or 2 if you use two hands just to disagree). Now, get anybody to call your name and answer them. You, the real "ABUZOLA" answered that person who called your name.

Your word is YOU!

When you die (hopefully in another 180 years time), the only thing that will leave is that word. The head or face or d**k or whatever you touched will stay and start to rot. It is just clothing for your spirit which is your word: the real YOU!

So again I ask, who answered inside the Body (cloth) of this "person" we call Jesus? Was it the genes of a man or the Word of God (or word of Allah who said in the "unequalled" koran that it was His word that became a child inside Mary)? If it was the Word of God then, please tell me using simple analogy who Jesus then was/is!

I want you to remember that when Adam was created and before His fall due to Sin, He and God stood face to face and spoke as family. It was sin that brought the division. Now if the Koran tells you (a muslim) that Mary was favored and that those who follow her Son would be higher than those who do not (in addition to saying Allah's Word became this Carpenter), what do you think?

The above is my simple belief of Jesus being the "only begotten son". He remains the Word of God (or Allah as you prefer to call Him). If you're about to say that I am wrong, please remember I used the Koran to answer you and have not even started on the Bible which afterall is even more vocal on this issue. In that case, you are DIRECTLY saying the Koran "missed" it or is telling a lie!

On christianity (as they call it today): If you look at human interpretations of Christianity (I mean the different churches, Bible types etc etc), you'll miss it. God has allowed us to tell all the lies we wish to tell but has embedded in every culture, religion and mindset, pointers to the truth. I have only one Pastor I trust. He was a bank manager in Ibadan who left his job and said God asked him to go to a village where NEPA doesn't even get to, to preach. He lives a poor but fulfilled life and I tell you, friend, you do not hate these "business" pastors as much as I do. They are the reason why Mohandas K. Gandhi said "if christians behaved the way Jesus did, all mankind would be righteous and follow Him".

Any other questions

Nairaland must be the most amazing site on earth and many visitors must see us as comedians.

1. Explain the Koranic message and truth to me and your response is "its too vast and encompasses so much that (as it were), I can't grasp". I may be a simpleton but not to that extent.

2. What is this Biblical error you speak of (not all the deluge people throw around thinking that the more questions they ask vociferously, the more opportunity to confuse and confound and then claim victory [children playing "ten ten"]) and you ask me to save my breath because I will be ashamed.

I can't be ashamed, Brother! Worst case is, I do not get to explain adequately to you because I don't know everything (I accept that unlike most people here who believe they are at par with God in knowledge because they believe something and therefore it is right). Me and you share that same burden as your answer to most questions here has been that the Quran is the answer to itself and needs no support from history or science. Thats the problem with Faith. It is personal conviction. Only problem is, I sincerely wish it is honest conviction and not just sturbbonness borne out of a desire to "win" a perceived battle or not look like someone "won". Daft, asinine, stupid idea. If we knew what we ought, why'd we go to school and continue to learn till death.

If you truly want to hear and consider another point of view, tell. Else, we're finished here cos like one of my earlier references said, you too are saying "Do not confuse me with the FACTS as I already made up my mind". That statement is heavy O and the ball is in your court

Abuzola:

You still haven't given me that perfect explanation you attribute to the Koran. BTW, is it Koran or Quran?

Anyway, what is the Biblical error and may I try to explain this "error"?

Abuzola wrote :

@nuclearboy- Agree to the above remarks but would want to make a correction:

it is not faith, the Quran had given us the perfect explanation.

On Prophecy that you said even satan can do, i disagree with you, much of Nostradamus prophecy failed unlike that of the Quran and hadith, what about the bible ? The bible says if your faith is equal to a mustard you can move a mountain over 2,000 years now no one had done it does it mean that all of you are destined to hell ? Haha

What is that perfect explanation?

Abuzola wrote:

You have a dull brain, i don't blame u its your jesu, Is Egypt not an arab state. What a deluded son of the dead crucified jewish carpental gay

I'm disappointed that you go to this extent. I have gone out of my way to show respect for your Prophet and religion and you use this language for my own?

Nobody seems to be trying to let the other explain his beliefs. We're just slinging insults left, right etc.

To the guy who said "people are afraid of what they don't know", I come back with an earlier statement "Fools and fanatics are always so sure of themselves but wise people are wary". And this is not the World wrestling association so I have no opponent here and did not come here to defeat or win. I had the opportunity to get a copy of the Koran once but doubt if I even read one page before I dropped it. So I do not understand it and here I am asking questions SO I CAN GET IT yet your response is that scientists could not understand the complexities plus the Arabic is "luminous". What a statement. Luminous?!!! If you have nothing to say, please go pray a little and allow Abuzola!

No matter what anyone on either "side" of this asinine "fight" you're all having says, at least I now know this guy is reasonable and knows "belief in God" is mainly based on faith and not on science. If you want to disprove me, then prove that I have never been to Heaven and seen Jesus and God. If you cannot, please let us learn by answering questions not looking for "ways" to win wars that exist only in your mind.

@Abuzola:

You said upbringing was a large part of what informed your faith but that your study has endeared you to Islam. Before we continue, lets make consensus:

[1] The message in the Koran for dealings with "MEN" is one of love for which Muslims expect reward. This is the same as the Biblical injunction by Jesus.
[2] Allah shares the same name with a prior pagan demon god, albeit because of the arabic language
[3] They also share the same holy place, and Allah allows (even commands) the same worship and pilgrimage mode!
[4] The only difference between the is that the Prophet says this is a different "Allah" from the previous one.
[5] We cannot prove the Prophet is right using Science or history or facts on the Ground. Even if there were prophecies that have come to pass, we both know that Babalawo's can tell their clients some truths at times. In short, even Satan can give prophecy and only childish people follow miracles and prophecy.

All I'm saying is that seperating the original from the counterfeit in Islam now seems to me to require more than proof; it requires a whole lot of Faith. Faith, specifically, that the Koran is the Truth, the whole truth and nothing but the Truth and that there was no mistake and no interference from satan. Thats a lot of trust in someone who got his revelations in the absense of everyone. If it is not the total absolute undiluted truth, everything crumbles since the faith it stood on has collapsed. Your own specific faith depends on your study of the Koran till date.

Do you agree with the above? Where you do not, please explain

And now please explain your own "PERSONAL" study and CONVICTION to me. I have related to you as Abuzola and not as a muslim so its your own beliefs that matter to me now that I know you are straight forward. I need you to explain what it is about Islam that carries the day for you.

Una no go kill me for Nairaland!

@Focused123: Do you remember we are supposed to be at peace with ALL MEN? BTW, I like many of your posts (the non-aggressive ones)!

@Kola.Oloye: Abuzola should not annoy you today If he does, shey you will use e-cane on his bottom, class prefect? Chill, Bro.

@Abuzola:

Thanks for your honest answer about the Ka'abah! Now it is definite that you're a honorable person. Which now leads me to a postulation that your belief in Islam is based on Faith (since history can say crazy things and does so in this case) and not on Science/History/etc. Is that right?

If it is right, are you willing to go as far as saying this is no longer about facts but opinions based on upbringing/exposure etc?

Abuzola,

You have not answered the following:

[1] Where was the house of that "fake" Allah where it was worshipped? OR
[1] What was the name of that house where it was worshipped?

[3.b.] Where and how does Allah rebuke these "fakes" and seperate them from Himself so people are not confused. As an example, the Book of Isaiah tells us differences and there is the COMMAND to TEST ALL SPIRITS in the Bible (The Biblical God asks we test Him Himself to be sure it is HIM) incase the devil tries to fake as Him.


This all is confusing to me. I read a lot and know some people will now start shouting "cut and paste" which is partly true as I earlier said I came across some information which I have not seen disproved. Some of the most reasonable people I know are muslims but when the following kind of allegations exist and are mainly ignored or turned into avenue for "fighting" or diversion without answers proffered, people like me wonder.

Arab pagans practised the Pilgrimage of Kabah once a year – they had a Fast, ran around the Kabah seven times, kissed the black stone, shaved their heads, sacrificed animals, ran up and down two hills, threw stones at a symbol they called the devil, snorted water in and out the nose, prayed several times a day facing toward Mecca, had special Friday prayers, etc. These are well documented as practices followed by the pagans before Islam and they are still strictly followed by Muslims today. Nobody can deny the fact that, all the above rituals of Muslim’s hajj today—existed well before the arrival of Islam. So I ask, how do you separate the two "religions"?

The central shrine at Mekka (as called then) was the Pagan’s Kaaba (also called the House of Allah), a cube like stone structure which still stands today though many times rebuilt. Imbedded in one corner is the black stone, probably a meteorite, the kissing of which is now an essential part of the Muslim’s pilgrimage.

It is a historical fact that the Ka’aba, the sacred shrine which contains the Black Stone, in Mecca was used for pagan idol worship before Islam and even called the House of Allah at that time. The name of the God whom the Arabs worshipped was the god of pantheon—Ali-ilah the god, the supreme, the predeterminer of everybody’s life or destiny—the chief God “Allah”. This was a "god" that determined destiny and you had no input into your own life's successes or failures.

They even had a BLACK STONE which was very sacred (povitra) to all various tribes of Quraish. When one day this sacred stone was needed to transfer from one place to another, there was a quarrel amongst the various tribes, as to who will carry that sacred stone? Then most intelligent and righteous young boy Muhammad (was not a prophet then) invented the solution of this serious problem. He (Muhammad) put this sacred stone over a Chaddor (piece of cloth) and asked one representative from each tribe to hold the Chaddor and carry the stone. This story is narrated briefly to prove that the black stone did exist before Islam's advent.

References for the above come from:

1. A History of the Arab peoples, by Albert Hourani, the Belknap press of Harvard University press, Cambridge, Massachusetts, 1991

2. Dr. Robert Morey, 1996 Research and Education Foundation.

3. Gilchrist, The Temple, The Ka’aba, and the Christ (Benoni, South Africa, 1980), p. 16.

4. G. J. O. Moshay, Who Is This Allah?, (Dorchester House, Bucks, UK, 1994), pg. 138

5. Ibn Warraq, Why I Am Not A Muslim, (Prometheus, Amherst, 1995) p. 42.

6. Encyclopedia of Islam, eds. Lewis, Menage, Pellat, Schacht (Leiden: E. J. Brill, 1971, II:1093.)

7. Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics (ed. Hastings), I:326.

8.The Ultimate Encyclopedia of Mythology, Arthur Cotterell and Rachel Storm, Lorenz Books, New York 10011, Anness Publishing Limited 1999

9. Roots of the Western Tradition, (a short history of the ancient world) by C.Warren Hollister, Library of congress cataloging-in-publication data, 6th edition.

Not a fight, just a set of questions! I hope they are not insultive as they are not meant to be.

@Abuzola:

My question was very clear! I said Olufemi is a name but Olufemi is a man like any other man. So we can use "Man" as a generic term for him but "Olufemi" is his real name. It was in that context that I asked my question about the "SPECIFIC DELIBERATE NAME "Allah". If you still do not understand, look at it like this. Christians say Jehovah is God's personal name. Have you ever heard anyone called "Jehovahfemi" or "Jehovahisstrong"? Anyone can be called "god", even demons and men. e.g. any maladjusted bingo can say he is god like "guru maharaji". Is Allah then a generic name or is it specific?

Then the other questions which you totally neglected.

[1] Where was the house of that "fake" Allah where it was worshipped?
[2] Why does "Allah" inside the Koran swear by things He supposedly create when all of reality swears by greater things
[3] Whats the difference between the 2 "Allahs" from the Quran? Obviously, the "Allah" of the Koran must have known there were these "false gods" as you call them who were bearing His own name. Where and how does He rebuke them and seperate them from Himself so people are not confused. As an example, the Book of Isaiah tells us differences and there is the COMMAND to TEST ALL SPIRITS in the Bible (The Biblical God asks we test Him Himself to be sure it is HIM) incase the devil tries to fake as Him.

Voltron:

I spent the last couple of hours reading your responses in various threads. Everytime anyone asks questions about Islam or makes a comment about religion in any way, you bring this asinine issue of """Jesus, Ghost and Yahweh""" up. Are you not tired of this ruse to confuse, derail and scatter? Bertrand Russell said, “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people are so full of doubts.”

If you want me to consider you for response, behave like Abuzola and Niyi53. ME, MYSELF, I AGREED THAT NIYI53 GAVE ME A GOOD ANSWER EARLIER. I COMMUNICATE WITH ABUZOLA AS AN INTELLIGENT PERSON. Was it your violent thread-derailing noise that made me agree these are gentleman and that Niyi gave the right answer? You keep calling yourself Ijebu and call everyone "aburo" which means you think you are elderly. Why not show your age and stop behaving like someone who's being gang-banged in the butt by 15 members of the KKK whist his feet are on fire? This is how a child should be behaving with your elderly arse correcting him

And as I have invited earlier, show us new vocabulary for insults and mindlessness in your answer cos that seems to be all you do. Divert, insult, lie and give Islam the look of violence and show your true mental age rather than the number of years you have spent on earth.

@ Abuzola and Niyi53:

Gentlemen, thanks for your answers. My question about this name issue is concerning the history before the advent of Islam.

[1] If Allah is the specific name of God as expressed to Muhammad, who was the Allah that was considered the Moon-god and chief of all pagan deities before Muhammad got his revelations?
[2] What difference exists between the 2 "Allahs".
[3] Muhammad's own father's name was "Abdullah" which means "Slave of allah". Which allah since obviously the man was named before he had Muhammad?
[4] Where was the pagan allah worshipped and what was called the "house" of that pagan allah?
[5] Then again, there are many instances where "Allah" swears by the Moon, Stars, Night etc. It is normal to swear by something greater than you but nowhere and never have I heard even an idiot swearing by a Goat or his wrist watch etc. Please explain this.

I keep reminding that this is not meant to insult but to learn and that many wondering "intelligent" people are reading. Lets please keep to the point and not start stories or insult my intelligence and that of other readers. You guys have been great. Please continue now and let the noise-makers not have any reason to insult any of us. If later, you want to ask questions about my beliefs, let it be later and lets have order. Straight forward honest questions, Brothers.

Abuzola:

Do you agree that "Allah" is the specific name of God as revealed to the Prophet or is it just a generic name just as man can be used for me or you?

Go for the simpler vehicle. The technology and know-how to fix more complicated cars is more expensive. Year for year, the pathfinder will be cheaper both to purchase and to maintain than the Infiniti. However, if you prefer "effects", grab the infiniti.

Was out of town so I apologize for not responding earlier

@Abuzola:

NIYI53's answer was way superior to your own. He included other peoples/races in his quotes. You are saying Muslims are brothers to themselves alone which is contrary to what I asked. Lets accept Niyi's answer as accepting the Koran says me, a Christian, should be treated the same way by you, as you would treat another Muslim. If you disagree with this and believe we are second class, let me know please.

And I apologize for the person who insulted you. Different types of people, you know.

@Everyone, please let Abuzola respond to this before we go ahead. God is not an author of confusion so we should not chase many rats at the same time. But if you want us to continue anyway, no wahala.

@Rukkayat: are you Muslim or Christian? Thanks anyway, for telling the truth about the "circle" of the Earth as expressed by the Bible.

No wahala but I notice you still "fight" on other threads. Leave them to that rubbish and remain the gentleman you've been displaying here. Enjoy your night

Niyi53:

I'm not amuslim so cannot know the teachings of Islam. 4:36 and 2:178 answer my question so thank you.

We say Jehovah is God Almighty. Christians believe that Jehovah is His real name and then you see such as Jehovah Jireh, Jehovah Sabaoth etc. But Jehovah is his name just as someone called "Olufemi". "Olufemi" is a man just like the rest of us but his particular name is Olufemi. You say Allah is God Almighty too. Is "Allah" His real name as revealed to the Prophet or is the word "Allah" just a title for God just like man is a title for Olufemi?

@Abuzola: welcome back. Noticed you were busy on other threads.

@Niyi53:

I like your offer. Very polite, very mature, very responsible. Pride to Islam. So no problem, Sir (as long as we're not fighting or insulting each other).

To start with, please answer the questions I asked above about Koranic injunctions to show love to people of different religions and race and inclination.

I would like you to note that the story I quoted was a parable and not a real story. It is the morale behind it (that Jesus said show love to people of other persuasions) that I asked about. Provide me Koranic statements that do the same. And please don't go the "violence distraction" way by starting long treatises on the meaning of the Biblical quote. Just show direct answers. we're trying to determine if its the same "God", not because any "book" says so but because its the same message.

BTW, all your postulations about the veracity of Luke, Matthew etc are not fair. Its like the people who say Muhammad and Allah are the same. Would you like anyone to say so? Don't insult my beliefs with your 350 years idea (you were not there) and no eye witness issue when the Roman conquerors have records (not another avenue for distraction please) that stand till today

@Abuzola:

Na wah O. So you don't want us to share in your Ram and you're waiting till you finish it before you reply. No wahala, enjoy the break,  ,  ,

@Voltron,

Your rabid long-winded writings amuse me. Not once have I seen you respond to any question without resorting to name-calling, veiled (veiled) insults and absolute manipulation of truth and lies. How can someone tell lies about lies? What kind of mindset cannot communicate without going on a journey of fabrication and violence even online. And you expect me to join issues with you? Go sleep and dream again.

I'd love to see your keypad (it must look like a war zone). Who's fighting you aside your imagination? Do you have any wish to learn and do you realize you are presenting more of a case for Christianity than any Christian here simply by making Islam look like a violent, mindless, non-communicative and intolerant religion. You're embarrassing Muslims just by being you. Na wa O!

Please ignore me. It is what I've been praying for and is why I chose a gentleman over you. Abuzola obviously loves His religion and is bothered by what he doesn't understand in Christianity.

Now please oblige me by proving all that I wrote above and let the vitriol that seems to build to over-flowing in you every 15 seconds explode. The world is watching and we will learn some more "abusive words" and see the spirit you are trying to say belongs Islam by reading your response to this. Pele Dear

@ "self appointed defenders of ?? "

Who asked for help or all this "ajo Gbona"??

I asked a simple question of someone who I find very much respectful of what he believes in and who feels insulted that others are insulting his beliefs 

I will wait for his response.

@Abuzola:

I notice some of your past posts in response to my questions are being deleted. Do they represent a problem to you or why are you doing this?

If I did it, would you not feel I'm regretting what I wrote. You've been a gentleman thus far. Please remain so and answer the questions posed.

If you don't have answers to what I've asked, fine! Can I ask another set of questions? That doesn't mean you've lost (we're not competing) but just that you don't know ALL the Koran and Bible which is acceptable to any reasonable person.

We'll just conclude then that we've not been able to agree the Biblical God is the same as the Quranic God. Thats me and you O!

I await your pleasure and wish you a very happy Sallah. Enjoy your ram suya , , ,

Abuzola:

Here's hoping you're having a nice evening. Still waiting on you

NellyChari:

Abeg now! Why do we say Muslims are intolerant when you call someone you've never met "Boko Haram"? I think most Muslims feel insulted by the concept of people saying God is three people and they react to that. But it is because they don't see it our way or understand our reasoning. Why not show them that way rather than insulting someone who may be your friend in real life but who's anonymous because of Nairaland?

Abuzola:

Still waiting for a reference to where the "same" God said the same thing in the Koran about love for people of different religions and persuasion!

Excuse me?

I'm talking love that "TRANSCENDS" especially religion, not a vague concept of if you do well, if you ity for yourself that is not directed at any particular person, creed, race or religion. For all the good your quote brings, it may mean doing good to your junior brother.

Avoid vagueness whist accusing me of non-matching statements and please remember, Muslims, Christians, Atheists and unsure people are watching us both. Be specific and show me where the Koran asks love for people of a different religion.

Waiting for your quote that compels love transcending "RACE" and "RELIGION"!!!!

@Mazaje: Na wa O! you attack the system of beliefs of hundreds of millions of people like this? Would you then say you're the most intelligent person on the face of the earth and all muslims ever in history are not as intelligent as you? O ga O!

@Abuzola:

A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him and departed, leaving him half dead.     And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.    And likewise a levite when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.   But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was, and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,   And went to him and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn and took care of him,   and on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee. Which now of these three thinkest thou, was neighbor unto him that fell among the thieves?     And he said he that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him , Go and do likewise  (Luke 10: 30 - 37)

Red is used for the words of Jesus above.

Samaritans were avoided by the Jews and were considered anathema. They were a different peoples and followed a different religious set of beliefs so this man crossed "disgust", "race" and "religion" to do what he did and thus was called a true neighbor and worthy of emulation.

Jesus told a story about what constitutes a neighbor. I know you know the story so I won't insult your intelligence. Bottom line is that the Good Samaritan was a man who crossed the lines of Race and Religion and Culture to help (show love) to another person.

Would you say this Biblical love theme is the same Message passed by the Koran and can you give examples from the Koran where muslims are enjoined to show love to others regardless of race and religion and situation? If you cannot, are the themes and therefore God(s) of the Bible and the Koran the same?

Please note that love is the central theme of the Gospel brought by Jesus. Nobody in his right senses will say christians changed the entire Bible for selfish reasons (to require we CARE ABOUT AND LOVE everyone regardless of religion) so you cannot use "change of Bible" here to answer my question.

Yes I read. All of us do including you but how do I just start throwing questions? I assume you can't know everything so help me off by presenting a case that can stimulate me to use the knowledge I gleaned to ask questions that you can answer hopefully dispelling many amazing things I read and would like to hope are not true or are misrepresented

@Abuzola:

You "know" my game? I want to argue? Strange cos I accepted your past explanations though saying they were not the direct answers which I was looking for. Let me tell you the truth. Someone discussed a site called www.faithfreedom.org with me awhile back. When I visited the site, it was filled with vitriol against Islam and it seems no-one (Muslim) was able to answer their postulations.

However, the site is very angry/insulting/derogatory etc toward your religion so I felt maybe Muslims left cos there was too much anger/friction. Here at Nairaland,  I thought I'd find someone (you seemed best) to clear the questions the site brought to my mind about Islam.

But if your only rebuttal is a Quranic quote ,   ,  ,  (without even knowing what my questions are), no wahala. But it would have been nice to tell what the message of Islam is and buttress it with examples from the Koran and the life of the Prophet!

I do not argue. I learn. Thanks for your time. Our readers will deduce whatever they will from our conversation and I will seek my answers elsewhere.

Abuzola,

I was expecting you to explain the message of Islam to me so I think its you that will start. Lets say we met someplace and you want me NOT to go to Hellfire because you liked me after interacting with me awhile.

Preach Islam to me:, its message, the reason why you believe and why you think I should believe and what it offers my mind, body and spirit. Support your assertions with History & Koranic extracts. My questions will rise from that and I assure you will not insult you. They come from a mind that is puzzled about many things I see people believing in

Abuzola,

Over the past years and increasingly in the past few months, I've come across all sorts of comments, claims and counter-claims concerning religion and beliefs. Unfortunately, most of them are a bit too harshly stated for my sensitivity. Why the fighting? God made White men and Black men, He made the cat family and you'll find Lions, Tigers, the Cheetah and the domestic cat all sharing the same family yet few would keep a tiger at home. And a cheetah will not go near a lion. If God wanted all of us to be Christians or monkeys or all be called "Abuzola99999", he'd have done it easy. The Bible says some will be condemned and so does the Koran. Why not everyone saved or marked to be destroyed?

I understand Christianity and chose it over other religions because it made sense (to me). You prefer Islam. Fine! If I think mine is better, I ought to be able to present it without a fight and defend it the same way even when uncomfortable with some of the questions. But when I hear morons saying Jesus is a cry-baby or Muhammad is a demon, I wonder at their state of mind.

You ask why I do not believe in Allah? Fine, I do not understand Islam, its tenets, history and have so many questions that may raise quarrels. I'm not asinine like some here who think the more they shout, the better so I will not insult you by saying things I have read and wondered the way they were said. So the question is can you defend without taking offense? That is a loaded question cos what I'll ask may be very painful. I on my own side will answer any question without rancor (ACCORDING TO MY OWN UNDERSTANDING) if we both accept we're coming with an open clean friendly mind.

But this forum?? We both know at least one xtian and one muslim who are already sharpening their knives before we start so , ,

Give me reasons to accept but remember what I wrote earlier - I do not argue to WIN BUT TO LEARN! No hiding and distractions.

Anyway, one thing I know is many people are coming and reading and making their own conclusions. Many privately decide simply because of the maturity, truth, fairness and directness of the writer. I know what I've learnt reading DEEP SIGHT and MAVENBOX so its in your court to present a case that will positively affect people towards or against your cause. The World is watching!

Are you up to it and will you promise that if I ask a terrible question (respectfully), it will not cause trouble? Its in your court

Myjoe: Your earlier write-up now makes perfect sense to me. I think where I missed it was the word "religion". As a word, its probably been the most misused ever and yes, you're right. If most people lose their "religion", they will become unmanageable and absolutely amoral. Indeed, even with the cloak of "religiosity", most of us are little better than animals when left alone. Most people would say "if there's no-one there, a tree falling in a forest makes no noise" and thus what they do in the absence of audience is ok since no one knew.