the_seeker:


I leave you to ponder with these few verses of the bible and let your conscience be the judge

The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
 

@the seeker
You know what, u got ur cusor wrong on this one.
What u shud actually type in bold is not the "OUR" but the "ONE"
Jesus here was quotin' the old testament Deut. 6:4-"Hear, O Israel, [Yahweh] our God, Yahweh is one!"
We find that ONE(echad) is applied to God. He is "one" in the sense of compound oneness.
This is so central to the Old Testament concept of God.
ONE in this text u quoted refers to a compound oneness in which a number of things together are described as "one"
And other examples of such usage is found in different pages of the scripture. But im sure this is the part where u fall back on the cliche response-the bible is corrupted, right?
oNe

@the_seeker:

The respect I have had for you drops more than a notch when you say a particular earlier "response" was adequate and has your support/respect. You were joking, right? Cos its obvious reading what you've written in your worst posts that you have more than that upstairs. I refuse to dignify such with a response and can only smile thinking you had nothing to say and so decided solidarity was in order.

But I wonder if solidarity with idiocy befits such as you with the intelligence you had earlier portrayed. Anyway, we understand you needed a means of not replying yet staying applicable.

For clarity, Alexander the Great was never revered by any man except as a great general and tactician. He said he was god but all knew that was hog-crap. With a sword to theit throats though, they said what he wanted to hear. The Pharaohs (and Ceasars) were men who knew that the divinity claim afforded them higher "powers". Their families supported them because such provided their own selves more comfort. People follow the teachings of Buddha and do not call him god. His is a way of discipleship. Sallesie had 2 lions that were so well trained they obeyed his every command. They brought him immense respect and created fear in his favor. His total aloofness to morality and ruthlessness also helped. It would be nice if you read more about him. He used the throne and history of his country as a claim that he too, was sitting on the throne of the king of kings. But he never said he was king of kings.

Why are you quoting things out of context? Again I ask, why use fallacy/lies/half-truths/etc to support your claim when all you have is a restriction of God in your mind that says "He cannot humble Himself"? Thats all you have! And its only a product of limiting God and putting Him in a box of your own making (of your own size). 

You started with Trinity. Now you no longer use the "triune" argument? Same with the "Word of God" argument. Then the OOO issue! It seems you are just throwing straws hoping one will seem rigid enough to push me down. Then it became my conscience and "Eli" which means "Ascent" not God. Now it is Alexander and heathen notions. What next?

Whatever it is, truth will prevail and I thank God many others are reading and reasoning.

NOTE: When you say your prophet would have been the greatest man-god, I wonder - what attributes of his would we be seeking to emulate? Please enumerate 5 things you (or better still, someone from another religious background) would like to do as he did then tell me 5 things Jesus did that you hate about His character. In effect, try compare

The Jewish Torah pointed to a day when a Messiah would come and deliver the Jews. The preferred interpretation given to this by the religious leaders was that this messiah would come as a military force that would conquer the world (particularly the cruel Romans) and place Israel in a position of supremacy on the world stage. Till today, some Jews are still expecting that messiah. And that messiah was to be called "the Mighty God, the Prince of Peace, etc", not a prophet of God.

It was in light of Jesus not being a soldier messiah, that the Jews preferred to reject Him. Have you ever noticed that the NT quote about them wanting His life because "He maketh Himself God yet being man"? Also that they feared his growing followership as it negated their own power?

So when you say Jesus didn't say He was God, you are not being truthful else why the above quote? Please do not start with "corrupted Bible" since it was this same Bible you quoted earlier to, (you thought) support yourself.

By the way, the "religious guys" of those days interpreted things "THEIR PREFERRED WAY", rather than God's way. But they were wrong. Seems familiar and distinctly resembling what obtains today.

Blessed be God. Thank you, Nuclearboy for sharing the truth you know, with us. I am a fan of yours! Lol

nuclearboy:

@the_seeker:

The respect I have had for you drops more than a notch when you say a particular earlier "response" was adequate and has your support/respect. You were joking, right? Cos its obvious reading what you've written in your worst posts that you have more than that upstairs. I refuse to dignify such with a response and can only smile thinking you had nothing to say and so decided solidarity was in order.

But I wonder if solidarity with idiocy befits such as you with the intelligence you had earlier portrayed. Anyway, we understand you needed a means of not replying yet staying applicable.

Like i said earlier, Bro. Olabowale's response did enough justice to your post, notwithstanding that i might have attacked from a different angle.
Unless you insist that we keep this dialogue between just me and you

nuclearboy:

For clarity, Alexander the Great was never revered by any man except as a great general and tactician. He said he was god but all knew that was hog-crap. With a sword to theit throats though, they said what he wanted to hear. The Pharaohs (and Ceasars) were men who knew that the divinity claim afforded them higher "powers". Their families supported them because such provided their own selves more comfort. People follow the teachings of Buddha and do not call him god. His is a way of discipleship. Sallesie had 2 lions that were so well trained they obeyed his every command. They brought him immense respect and created fear in his favor. His total aloofness to morality and ruthlessness also helped. It would be nice if you read more about him. He used the throne and history of his country as a claim that he too, was sitting on the throne of the king of kings. But he never said he was king of kings.

I likened jesus to these men not because i wanted to validate their divinity but to prove to you the inclination of man to accept his fellow man as God. Worship of your Hero jesus is no different.

nuclearboy:

Why are you quoting things out of context? Again I ask, why use fallacy/lies/half-truths/etc to support your claim when all you have is a restriction of God in your mind that says "He cannot humble Himself"? Thats all you have! And its only a product of limiting God and putting Him in a box of your own making (of your own size). 

If you were referring to the verses i posted to disprove the divinty of christ, i beseech you  to post them in context and let’s see if it means otherwise. You are the one posting out of context. Like i said ealier the prophecy of ‘a virgin young woman shall give birth to a child and he shall be called Emmanuel’ has nothing to do with Christ. Now let me give you the context.

7:1 And it came to pass in the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, king of Judah, that Rezin the king of Syria, and Pekah the son of Remaliah, king of Israel, went up toward Jerusalem to war against it, but could not prevail against it.
7:2 And it was told the house of David, saying, Syria is confederate with Ephraim. And his heart was moved, and the heart of his people, as the trees of the wood are moved with the wind.
7:3 Then said the LORD unto Isaiah, Go forth now to meet Ahaz, thou, and Shearjashub thy son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool in the highway of the fuller's field;
7:4 And say unto him, Take heed, and be quiet; fear not, neither be fainthearted for the two tails of these smoking firebrands, for the fierce anger of Rezin with Syria, and of the son of Remaliah.
7:5 Because Syria, Ephraim, and the son of Remaliah, have taken evil counsel against thee, saying,
7:6 Let us go up against Judah, and vex it, and let us make a breach therein for us, and set a king in the midst of it, even the son of Tabeal:
7:7 Thus saith the Lord GOD, It shall not stand, neither shall it come to pass.
7:8 For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin; and within threescore and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people.
7:9 And the head of Ephraim is Samaria, and the head of Samaria is Remaliah's son. If ye will not believe, surely ye shall not be established.
7:10 Moreover the LORD spake again unto Ahaz, saying,
7:11 Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.
7:12 But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the LORD.
7:13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?
7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin young woman shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
7:15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
7:16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.
7:17 The LORD shall bring upon thee, and upon thy people, and upon thy father's house, days that have not come, from the day that Ephraim departed from Judah; even the king of Assyria.
7:18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall hiss for the fly that is in the uttermost part of the rivers of Egypt, and for the bee that is in the land of Assyria.
7:19 And they shall come, and shall rest all of them in the desolate valleys, and in the holes of the rocks, and upon all thorns, and upon all bushes.
7:20 In the same day shall the Lord shave with a razor that is hired, namely, by them beyond the river, by the king of Assyria, the head, and the hair of the feet: and it shall also consume the beard.
7:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a man shall nourish a young cow, and two sheep;
7:22 And it shall come to pass, for the abundance of milk that they shall give he shall eat butter: for butter and honey shall every one eat that is left in the land.
7:23 And it shall come to pass in that day, that every place shall be, where there were a thousand vines at a thousand silverlings, it shall even be for briers and thorns.
7:24 With arrows and with bows shall men come thither; because all the land shall become briers and thorns.
7:25 And on all hills that shall be digged wit the mattock, there shall not come thither the fear of briers and thorns: but it shall be for the sending forth of oxen, and for the treading of lesser cattle.

Isaiah's prophecy was that the child Immanuel was to have been born in 742 BCE, the first year of King Ahaz's reign. Ahaz, the king of Judah, faced the combined armies of Syria and Israel. Isaiah explained to Ahaz that he should not form an alliance with Assyria. In support of this advice, God would provide a sign: a young woman would conceive and bear a child who would be named Immanuel.

The sign would have only have been effective if it happened almost immediately. It would not have given a lot of support to Isaiah's prophecy if more than seven centuries passed before it was fulfilled, over 700 years after King Ahaz' death.

Isaih was clearly not referring to some event that would occur centuries later. When he referred to the far future, as in Chapter 11, he typically used a phrase such as "In that day."

The translatiun of the Hebrew name Emmanuel, (Greek Emmanouel) as "God with us" in Matthew 1:23 implies that the name-holder is divine. The name really means "God is with us," meaning that God will support us. The name makes perfect sense if the child's name was to indicate to King Ahaz that God is on their side.

nuclearboy:

You started with Trinity. Now you no longer use the "triune" argument? Same with the "Word of God" argument. Then the OOO issue! It seems you are just throwing straws hoping one will seem rigid enough to push me down. Then it became my conscience and "Eli" which means "Ascent" not God. Now it is Alexander and heathen notions. What next?

My entire argument is woven around the divinity of Christ. I never used "Word of God" argument. I don’t know where you got that one from.
I cant believe you are telling me Eli means "Ascent" and not God

Eli (אלי), a variant on the name of God as spoken in Hebrew and Aramaic. (The "i" suffix indicates first person singular possession, i.e., "my El" or "my God”
This is reminiscent of what our dear Christ cried out when dying on the cross “Eli Eli lama sabachthani”

nuclearboy:

Whatever it is, truth will prevail and I thank God many others are reading and reasoning.

NOTE: When you say your prophet would have been the greatest man-god, I wonder - what attributes of his would we be seeking to emulate? Please enumerate 5 things you (or better still, someone from another religious background) would like to do as he did then tell me 5 things Jesus did that you hate about His character. In effect, try compare

I feel so insignificant attempting to Qualify this man Muhammad. Allow me to borrow the words of these great non muslim thinkers

PHILOSOPHER, ORATOR, APOSTLE, LEGISLATOR, WARRIOR, CONQUEROR OF IDEAS, RESTORER OF RATIONAL BELIEFS, OF A CULT WITHOUT IMAGES: THE FOUNDER OF TWENTY TERRESTRIAL EMPIRES AND OF ONE SPIRITUAL EMPIRE, THAT IS MUHUMMED. AS REGARDS ALL STANDARDS BY WHICH HUMAN GREATNESS MAY BE MEASURED, WE MAY WELL ASK, IS THERE ANY MAN GREATER THEN HE? Lamartine, "Historie de la Turquie," Paris 1854

THE MOST SUCCESSFUL OF ALL RELIGIOUS PERSONALITIES.
Encyclopedia Britannica

"MY CHOICE OF MUHAMMAD TO LEAD THE LIST OF THE WORLD'S MOST INFLUENTIAL PERSONS MAY SURPRISE SOME READERS AND MAY BE QUESTIONED BY OTHERS, BUT HE WAS THE ONLY MAN IN HISTORY WHO WAS SUPREMELY SUCCESSFUL ON BOTH THE RELIGIOUS AND SECULAR LEVEL." Michael H. Hart "The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History", New York: Hart Publishing Company, Inc., 1978, p.33.

I have nothing against Christ, in fact i love and adore him with all my heart. There is nothing i hate about his nature. In fact he is sinless (like all prophets of God). All am saying is the guy is not God

@Nuclearboy: « #418 on: Yesterday at 12:14:53 PM »

The Jewish Torah pointed to a day when a Messiah would come and deliver the Jews. The preferred interpretation given to this by the religious leaders was that this messiah would come as a military force that would conquer the world (particularly the cruel Romans) and place Israel in a position of supremacy on the world stage. Till today, some Jews are still expecting that messiah. And that messiah was to be called "the Mighty God, the Prince of Peace, etc", not a prophet of God.

Apatrt from the fact that you of your own simple understanding cant understand the history or story of the Jews as to what they expect of their savior as much or even more than they understand. Or is that possible, since there is nothing from Jesus to say that jesus was this expected person, and if there is please show me, if there is not, then how do you arrive at jesus, being "The Mighty God" when he has an Everliving God, Who is his God One Lord, or the Prince of peace when they were expecting a warrior, since Moses was a warrior and was able to save them from Pharaoh, while the gentle big brother Aaron could not have been able to do it, etc and not a prophet when he Jesus said that he was a prophet and nothing more?

It was in light of Jesus not being a soldier messiah, that the Jews preferred to reject Him. Have you ever noticed that the NT quote about them wanting His life because "He maketh Himself God yet being man"? Also that they feared his growing followership as it negated their own power?

Is there no limit to your lies? If they rejected him because he was not a soldier massiah, since it was the soldier Massiah that they were expecting, how is it that just making himself God yet being man playing in the rejection equation of not being soldier massiah? How is a powerless man who is not a soldier massiah threatening their own "power" just by mere increase in followership, but yet not a soldier Massiah for a people lie the children of Israel know that mere population without fighting spirit can do nothing to a smaller population with tremendous military might!? Your argument are fighting against itself.

So when you say Jesus didn't say He was God, you are not being truthful else why the above quote? Please do not start with "corrupted Bible" since it was this same Bible you quoted earlier to, (you thought) support yourself.

Could you quote direct verses where Jesus said he is God Almighty Creator of all things, Uncreated by the Only Creator? I hope you can be sincere, a thing of high feat? Maybe impossible, I dont know.

By the way, the "religious guys" of those days interpreted things "THEIR PREFERRED WAY", rather than God's way. But they were wrong. Seems familiar and distinctly resembling what obtains today.

Plese nuclearboy show us, side by side the interpretations of the religious guys of those days, then the religious guys of your day/the one you subscribe to, and where is the "God's way", so that we know where there is truth and what is the truth. I wanna know where the God's way was cropped from; today's Bible or the Bible of those olden days; which Bible production, version, edition, etc contains "God's way" and which one are you using to shoot down the Old time "religious guys"?

I asked a very simple question on Google: Why did the Jews flock to Madina before Muhammad (AS) arrived in thaat city? Below is a web reult, etc.

www.islamanswers.net/Prophet/jews.htm - Cached


Did the Jews and Christians of that time recognize prophet Muhammad and expect his coming?

All the Jews and Christians of that time recognized God’s Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings. As stated in the Qur’an, They recognize him as they recognize their sons (al-Baqara, 2.146). After his conversion, ‘Umar asked ‘Adbullah ibn Salam if he had recognized God’s Messen-ger. ‘I recognized him’, Ibn Salam answered and added, ‘I may doubt my children – my wife might have deceived me; but I have no doubt about God’s Messenger being the Last Prophet.’1

Especially the Jews in Madina were awaiting the coming of a Prophet and expected that he would appear in Madina. Whenever a conflict appeared between them and the Arab people of Madina – the Aws and Hajrac tribes – they threatened them that they would destroy them when the Prophet appeared. However, although they recognized the Prophet Muhammad as they recognized their sons, they rejected him only because he did not belong to their tribe:

When there comes to them a Book from the presence of God, confirming that with them – though before that they were expecting a triumph over those who unbelieve – and when there came to them what they recognized, they unbelieved in him. The curse of God is on unbelievers. (2:89)

Most of the Jews and Christians recognized him, most were envious of him and, because of their prejudice and envy, were left deprived of belief.

When there came to them a Book from God confirming what was with them – and they aforetime prayed for victory over the unbelievers – when there came to them what they recognized, they unbelieved in it; and the curse of God is on the unbelievers. (al-Baqara, 2.89)

After his conversion, ‘Adbullah ibn Salam said to God’s Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings: ‘O Messenger of God, hide me in a corner and then summon all the Jewish scholars in Madina to ask about me and my father. Their assessment will certainly be positive. Then let me come out to declare my conversion.’, (read more on your own).


The conversion of Salman al-Farisi

The Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings, was one who had been sought for centuries. Salman al-Farisi was one of those seekers. Originally he was a Magian, a fire worshipper. However, he was inwardly burning to find the eternal truth, and left home. Before embracing Islam, he had worked for several Christian monks, the last of whom advised Salman on his deathbed:, *read more on your own).




Once, after one of his Companions passed away, I attended the funeral, and I came close to God’s Messenger in the cemetery. After greeting him, I stood behind him in the hope of seeing the seal of Prophethood. His shoulders were bare. The seal was just as the monk had de-scribed it. I couldn’t help kissing it in tears and I told him my story. He was very pleased and wanted also his Companions to hear my story.3

1. Mukhtasar Tafsir Ibn al-Kathir, 1.140.

2. Bukhari, al-Anbiya’, Bab Khalq Adam, 2.

3. Ibn Hisham, Sira, 1.228–34

@Mavenbox:

I really would like you write and allow me access to some of the info you have amazed me with here. If we were to create a thread so I get that, I suspect it would be derailed.

@Voltron:

Respect for myself includes me having respect for others. But you make it so really terribly difficult. How can you say nothing in so many words? This gift you have would be really appreciated by the demons/liars/apostates that you will now claim are on my own side. What is sad is that my beliefs require I somewhat acknowledge your being a creation of God. I assure you my inclinations do not.

@the_seeker:

Have you ever considered that my wife and children will say more of me than this? Or that you didn't even answer my question which was that YOU tell me the exact attributes YOU OR ME should wish to copy from that life? Give me words like wisdom, honesty, fairness, peacefulness, friendliness, truthfulness etc. Back them with life examples not quotations from books attributed to himself or his followers. You went to one extreme. When choosing your references, why didn't you make it fair and quote the authors who gave him a different interpretation which the thought of, would have you stick your head in the sand as you're doing now? Would that not be fair?

Have you not noticed I repeatedly call Jesus the "Crying Carpenter Son the Son"? I do that because its so funny even me has to share in that laugh. And I believe a True Loving Honest God (a true father) would Himself find such funny. It means nothing that a tortured soul and body would cry out so I proclaim it proudly. And the guy had a job - Carpenter! Construction! Honest hard humble work! Proclaim your own lets see

In short, use the same criteria against yourself, Bros! Leave insignificance out - if you were, why does your religion want you? Your own aspirations are what I asked for.

When you wonder if I would rather we keep this between me and you, I ask - did this start between me and you? But I insist there is sense, reason, some (even if faked) sincerity and definite intelligence in posts that ask for a response. Abuzola my friend, Niyi53 and now you have come my way and I have no issues with you except the desire I see to trap with words. Not so with our resident "defender". Its tough reading any of that "persons" responses to the end as I invariably forget what the point was before I get halfway. It would have been easier where he 11, or say, 9 years old. And your point of attacking from a different point makes sense. You know and acknowledge all he spewed was drivel but you can't say so openly so you point out that you'd have done differently. Brilliant! See why I respect you? But Aluta Continua, , ,

Goggle "Eli" then tell us all what it means. Its fun reading from people who say they know their "arabic" better than us THEN also say they know our own more than us too!

742BCE? I would give a lot to see how an arrival at that date makes sense!

@posters

Please who is voltron . . .i am confused.

I am not suprised that this topic is talking complete bollocks . . . considering that I have encountered  a muslim on this forum who said that:

Arabs have been in Egypt since 5000BC  . ,   yes i was also suprised when I heard the obviouisly false statement.

@no2Atheism:

You must have been away for long. We have a jester/offpoint-man/long-winded-storyteller here that we renamed "voltron" since he decided he's the right person to defend the universe from what is indefensible. He prefers to call himself "olabowale".

@the_seeker:

By the way, I notice you crossing out the word "Virgin" and replacing with "young woman". Are you now saying not only is the Bible lying but the Koran also is lying? What this Jesus Guy is causing na wa O cos now, you're not even submitting to the Koran again because of Him. And Islam is submission, right?

Mohammed won Great battles, won great minds, extended his understanding of and mode of beliefs and conquered half the known world. So I see him as someone who achieved a lot and do not think it is me that should insult him. I have elders in my family and do not insult them except they ask for it. But if you ask we dig deep into his life, remember it was you that asked. He achieved more than most men ever dreamt or even wish to achieve.

Lets leave it at that! He truly was your Allahs messenger. I accept that. But I also know Jesus is Lord! and if you cannot allow me my space, think - why should I allow you yours?

@nuclearboy.
Earlier i posted some verses that negates your spuroius claim of christ divinity but you claimed they were quoted out of context. I begged you to provide the context but you stylishly dodged. Now i am begging challenging again you to prove that these verse do not mean what i said they mean.
I am giving you a second chance

John 20:17 - "I ascend to My Father and to your Father, My God and to your God."
John 17:3 - "And this is eternal life, that they know You are the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."
Joh n 14:28 - Jesus says, "The Father is greater than I."
The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone.No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father" 

On the other hand when i accused you of quoting out of context, i provided the context with irrefutable argument that the prophecy of 'virgin' birth in Isiah has nothing to do with christ. I assume your non repsponse implies consent. The fact that you however took exception to my use of 'young woman' in place of 'virgin' shows you are not well in researched in the bible as i though you were. The word used in the original hebrew text is ALMAH (young woman) not BETHULAH (virgin). Somehow, in the usual desperate attempt to fit OT prophecis to christ, 'young woman' was replaced with 'virgin'. Let give you a classical example of  a similar case of forced prohecies perpetuated by gospel writers.

Zech 9:9 states:
Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

Now mathew declared
Matt 21:1-7
And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Jesus two disciples,
Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me.
And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them.
All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,
Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.
And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them,
And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon.

How can jesus ride an Ass and a Colt at the same time. Was he a circus performer? It is obvious that it in a desperate attempt to make christ fulfill the prophecy, mathew had to make him ride two donkeys at the same time


Sincerly, i am dissapointed that you find "Crying Carpenter Son the Son" funny and  that you think God should share the laughter. Now i am loosing respect for you. i cant continue to argue with you about and idealogy that you yourself have apparantly admitted does not make any logical. sense.

One quote that never leaves me is this "Come now and let us reason together; declare your case that you may be justified"

Ok, the_seeker, lets reason together since you've said the Bible is corrupt and thus I can't use it to prove anything. But you too should please refrain from using the Koran to prove anything as I do not believe it:

John 20:17 - "I ascend to My Father and to your Father, My God and to your God."

[Me]: I used to play tennis at university. I remember that when we made mistakes, one could go "Oh Nuclearboy Nuclearboy, why are you playing rubbish"! *** -Substitute "Nuclearboy" for my real name. Does the above now make sense OR was I talking to someone else?

John 17:3 - "And this is eternal life, that they know You are the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."

[Me]: I'm on the phone with you so you're hearing just my voice. Then you make 2 comments: 1st that my voice is hoarse and also that I should send some money. Then I say "Oh, so Nuclearboy, you need to spend some cash here on yourself and change this your funny voice". All of us have said and done many things like this. Who says its impossible for God to talk like this. Keep it in mind that Christianity asks you work out salvation through faith! If He came, destroyed the Romans, sat on a throne that floated and had angels guarding him and breaking the bones of every murmurer around, would there be the need for the faith and belief we're supposed to have?

Joh n 14:28 - Jesus says, "The Father is greater than I."

[Me]: Yes O, Where He stood, wearing flesh, the full representation would even to me seem greater. Very simply, what you are reading right now is not me in totality. I still have a voice, flesh, soul, spirit and much greater vocabulary than you're being exposed to right now. You are seeing just words that answer a particular issue. Jesus "in the flesh" and at that time was answering a particular issue. Use the allegory above OR would you say all there is to "Nuclearboy" is what you're reading? What of my other posts in say, the Auto section? Or Jokes? or my life outside of NL etc?

'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

[Me]: What you call most important is the simplest. Again [1] you're reading from me. Am I just Paper or in this case, your screen? Am I even ANY of those? Yet thats what you're looking at, abi? [2] I could call you and you could then also be holding a print-out of this post. At that time, you're listening to me and reading me. Am I that paper and the voice together? Yep, cause they are expressions of me. Yet not all [3] I could visit you where you'd see me, hear me and also be able to read the paper. Yet even with me standing in front of you, tell me, would you see all there is to me? Would looking at me involve you automatically knowing my intellect, background, desires, lifestyle etc? Look at either of [1] or [2] as the Jesus the Israelites saw. A Word representation!

The problem with us as humans is that we are visual . We experience 4 dimensions and agree God exceeds this. Even when you get to Heaven, do you believe you can see God and instantly know Him in totality? Why then would you just assume His Character (please do not quote a Koran I don't believe in to buttress anything) and place Him in a box, chain it locked and sit on it?

I have gone through your posts and wonder what you mean by irrefutable. Please specify what you felt was irrefutable. I hope its not what I refuted above using english that both yourself and I have used many times. Your argument against Zech 9:9 is again the kind of thing I complained about earlier - your intention is to win! Anyway, my belief, not the belief of all the people you've argued against before now is what is at stake here and this is the truth - I have never noticed the Matthew story which states "They brought the donkey and the Colt, placed their cloaks on them and Jesus sat on them". Remember that in Christianity, we do not cram and recite. Rather than be dishonest and say things like 1st He sat on one, then the other, I'll say this -

I don't know what happened there. Thats honest but doesn't mean the Bible was wrong. It is me that just cannot explain every word. In the same way, I do not know everything about Computers though I have a university degree in that Science. If I could explain all things, I'd be God!

Sense/Nonsense are illusions that we use as we wish usually to make a case for ourselves. Let me illustrate:,

Does it make sense that [1] the Arabic word for God is ILLAH yet you insist its Allah [2] That there was a allah who was a demon known as the moon-god (the moon is used for deciding some things in Islam till date), who lived inside the same Ka'abah, who had the same mode of worship (running up and down hills, wearing white and shaving heads during the pilgrimage which that demon requested from its worshippers) etc YET you today say its a different entity simply because the prophet said so? [3] that the destruction of the other 360 gods did not mean the destruction of that allah but just the substituting of one for many and that it does not mean that one is the right God? [4] that the same prophet went around telling people a demon was disturbing him yet you believe it wasn't a demon that spoke to him simply because the spirit told him it was an angel of god and knew many true things? Did you ever consider that demons are angels expelled from heaven and can do impressive things to convince their audience they are whatever they claim to be? [5] that the blessing for being a good "muslim" would be to go to heaven and have 72 wives and that there seems to be no reward for women [6] that the promise in [5] seems made to order for soldiers who feared for their lives in the many battles your prophet fought who wondered what their profit would be if they died on the battlefield. I mean, if they were going to enjoy heaven more than earth, why not quickly go and start the enjoyment. [7] that the same promise is why the suffering masses of the north and the arabic world quickly jump at jihads. I notice that no Sultan/Emir or General has blown himself up. Its only the poor guys they bring on board, spoil with unaccustomed pleasures during training/indoctrination, then explain how much more "heaven" offers and finally send off to explode. Made to order to get soldiers, wouldn't you say?

The fact that its Jesus everyone is fighting against yet try to water down tells Volumes! Why try to water down rubbish? Why not ignore it? Why hatred for anything Jesus? Consider carefully if you've never felt there was something extra joining in your rigidity about Jesus and then rationalized it off. Its me that is disappointed in you cos your not insignificant intellect should have brought up those questions prior to now. But then, you are ordered to question others but not yourself. Ask yourself why? I, on the other hand, am ordered to question EVERYTHING starting with Christianity because "if we're doing the wrong thing, na double suffer be that". The "corrupt" Bible orders that of me!

Finally, "crying Carpenter son the son": I would be ashamed to serve a God that cannot understand my limitations, sense of humor or who is bothered by inanities. Anyway, such a god would have killed most of us on NL religious section where he truly GOD!

The above reminds me of a question that keeps slipping in and out of my mind - Do good muslim women go to heaven? what do these good muslim women get in heaven? 72 "heavy duty" guys + a river of booze/fruit juice ? What?

@uplawal & co:

Better get on the streets and start practicing. You are in for some deep action in heaven. You go hear weeennnnnn!

nuclearboy:

The above reminds me of a question that keeps slipping in and out of my mind - Do good muslim women go to heaven? what do these good muslim women get in heaven muslim paradise ? 72 "heavy duty" guys + a river of booze/fruit juice ? What?

@nuclearboy, I have gotten you to the point i intended. That point where a smart guy makes a fool of his intellect just beacuse he has to believe. Read your responses again and ask yourself if it makes any logical sense. At least you have responded to my challenge by answering my questions. Like i said ealier, arguments are never won. the only judge we have are our consciences. I rest my case.

As for the things you said about Allah and His noble Prophet, please provide your evidence if you are truthful

Well it seems the discussion has been narrowed doen to a debate btw Just t[b]he seeker and nuclearboy[/b]
i will still add my own humble imput.
Let he who have ear listen.
Some of the questions i'v already answered but for knowledge sake i'll post it again:
One essential u must understand when dealin with Jesus Issues is to understand the nature of Jesus christ.
He's 100% God but he's also 100% Man! This is what later was refered to as Hypostatic union.

So sometimes his divinity is revealed while he speaks and sometimes his humanity.
With these anyone with any iota of grey matter btw his ears will properly comprehend wat seems nutty.

'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

You know what, u got your cusor wrong on this one.
What u shud actually type in bold is not the "OUR" but the "ONE"
Jesus here was quotin' the old testament Deut. 6:4-"Hear, O Israel, [Yahweh] our God, Yahweh is one!"
We find that ONE(echad) is applied to God. He is "one" in the sense of compound oneness.
This is so central to the Old Testament concept of God.
ONE in this text u quoted refers to a compound oneness in which a number of things together are described as "one"
And other examples of such usage is found in different pages of the scripture. But im sure this is the part where u fall back on the cliche response-the bible is corrupted, right?

John 20:17 - "I ascend to My Father and to your Father, My God and to your God."

Jesus is both God and man. Here he speaks in reference to His human nature. As a man the Father is His God - just as He is ours. He calls the Father His God because He is God whom he worships, prays to and need in His life just as we do."

John 17:3 - "And this is eternal life, that they know You are the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."
Joh n 14:28 - Jesus says, "The Father is greater than I."

Infact understanding that Deity and Humanity is what Jesus is basically unravel the confussion anyone has about the above quotes. Put in perfect perspective, and not under-estimatin the dexterity and the workings of the power of the omniscient God,
it's not hard to see, and believe the diety of Jesus.
as it is evidently all over the pages of the scripture that Jesus is God.

In Revelation 21:16 God is called the "Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end,
But Jesus is called the "Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end" in Revelation 22:13.
How can Jesus and God be both the "Alpha and the Omega."

John 1:1-3 - "In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God, All things were made by Him: and without Him was made nothing that was made."
Gen : 1; In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Could go on quotin and quotin' but it will be meaningless when there's a bias already that the scripture is corrupt.(As if there are no hundreds of contradictions in the quoran)
oNe

@the_seeker:

My responses made sense even to you. Your background doesn't allow you acknowledge that openly.

I didn't say anything about Allah and your prophet that were not accepted by your peers earlier in this same thread. Except for my own deductions concerning the "usefulness" of a promise which would make people welcome and in fact seek death.

My responses made sense even to you. Your background doesn't allow you acknowledge that openly

@nuclearboy,

How illogical you sound above?

Who are you then to think yours, i.e. background, doesn't influence you there? There is nothing "sensible" in everything you have been saying. If you think there is show me.

Let me show you the difference.

My background INSISTS and influences that I test ALL spirits to know if they are from God. My God asks me to check to be sure that whatever I see/hear/feel is not a mirage. When I see truth, I hold on to it.

Your background INSISTS you DO NOT ask any questions that if answered about your religion , would cause you problems. When you see something that makes sense, still you needs must deny it

That is the difference. As per showing you, read this thread from the beginning. That will show you how people can see the truth and still deny. One particularly funny portion relates to the Egyptians coloration

abuzola pls read (isaiah 40:22)it is He that sit upon the circles of the earth. that is all

Go read N2A OP.

muhsin:

Go read N2A OP.

Lol. . and?

Disappointed!Misguided and misplaced religious passion has led humans to a place,i call, abyss.Your religious masters, who i call ,charlatans have made many of you stupid rather intelligent.Belief rather religion is the death of intelligence.The awakening of some consciousness in you will reveal the idiocy iof the word 'is'.Establish a relationship not religion with God not some rituals which by all means bores God.Religion has never done anything good to me.Think if only you will have to do it once.

Akindolu:

Religion has never done anything good to me.

Mr 3 posts, welcome. First rule of engagement is not to trash the convictions of your audience, but to reason with them. I see your religious hiccups have done you no good at all, so well done.

muhsin:

Go read N2A OP.

Am confused . . . . . . . what are u trying to say cus your statement seems to be kinda confusing . . .to say the least.

Don't call me a pagan,i just don't believe religion is godliness.Ask Copernicus,Newton,Galileo.They will tell 'catholic church ' did no good to the development of science.Terrorism,wars and now extortion has been the case.Be it whatever,i take no side.Seek God not an human master.They have failed mankind.

sammie256:

abuzola pls read (isaiah 40:22)it is He that sit upon the circles of the earth. that is all

Is the eartha a circles?

nuclearboy, come lets finish it, wey youuuuuuuuuuuuuuu, how many sons of God do we have ?

This thread should be closed.

The conclusion is that: The Bible not the Quran denotes that the earth is spherical. The idea of a Spherical Earth is not found anywhere in Quran. Whereas Bible says The Earth is hanging upon nothing, and equally refer to 'circle of Earth' . @viaro as finished the argument let us go to another thread. The Bible has won again and again.

It is certain that people will continue to fight against the Bible and his people but they have this assurance: "And they will be certain to fight against you, but they will not prevail against you" - Jeremiah 1:19

All of you that know truth but are trying to turn it read this:

"And just as they did not approve of holding God in accurate knowledge, God gave them up to a disapproved mental state, to do the things not fitting,  filled as they were with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, badness, being full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malicious disposition, being whisperers,  backbiters, haters of God, insolent, haughty, self-assuming, inventors of injurious things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, false to agreements, having no natural affection, merciless.  Although these know full well the righteous decree of God, that those practicing such things are deserving of death, they not only keep on doing them but also consent with those practicing them." Romans 1:28-32

@Abu Zola

nuclearboy, come lets finish it, wey youuuuuuuuuuuuuuu, how many sons of God do we have ?

I say you should close the thread you a calling nuclearboy. keep quite. phem.

Hope the nut in ur head is not loose, be silent if you have nothing tangible to say