₦airaland Forum

Nlmediator seems to be the only one getting the same vibes as I am - this is so disheartening

Post #183 finally passed Gary's message to me. Still, there were too many words here and nothing was gained

Abram gave a "tithe" voluntarily!

Solomon gave a "gift" voluntarily

Bottom line - both WERE voluntary, not compulsory!

But today, few preach either as voluntary

Because "wordtalk" does, I want to believe he is fine and will give him benefit of the doubt! At least I know that if he later says voluntary means compulsory, all of us here will witness it and remind him of his words here!

This becomes disheartening

@Gary: voluntary "tithing" means (to ME) giving a tenth to whoever as you decide to do so


Voluntary "giving" includes voluntary tithing but is NOT restricted to it - I can voluntarily give 1% or 7% or 16% as well as 10%

And I do know that even today in Israel, tithe IS ON CROPS and is not paid by soldiers or carpenters! Wikipedia will clarify that! So as I said, I get your point but if we do not start somewhere, we cannot get anywhere

@Gary:

I do see your point yet would NOT say the Mosaic law understanding comes from man made dictionaries.

NIV says in Deut 14:22 to "be sure to set aside a tenth of all your fields produce"! Verse 25 advises to convert that tithe to silver (cash).

Note this is a tenth of ALL your fields produce and not a tenth of what is in your pocket at any given time!

I believe this law has been superceded by the law of "love" in the NT however!

Thought Nuke was the rude one! Today I am stymied (at least the goats have kept away).

What's so difficult about these questions that you guys refuse to answer them? A tithe is a tenth is a tithe! And Deut does say it belongs to fatherless, poor, stranger\widow and levite! Whist I do NOT agree pastors are levites, for the purposes of this thread, I accept their claim!

Which means giving one tenth to any combination of the above can be seen as paying tithe!

@Gary: you have given a tithe of what was on you but NOT YOUR tithe!

@Eni:
I settled your query above bu again, YES, that is a tithe!

Gary,

If the 10 dollars is your income, then 1 dollar is your tithe!

Enigma:

Yes, if we are following the tithe "law" as expressed in Deuteronomy!

Now could someone else answer it\them?

Enigma??

Can we answer the question then ourselves?

That way, readers can follow us!

What's the question as you guys want it answered?

WE ARE GETTING NOWHERE AS IS!

Can someone please post the question directly to me? Then let's answer. - me, Enigma, Gary and wordtalk (in that order). Please!!

This has gone madly crazy

I'm totally lost now!

You guys want a yes or no and he refuses, ehn?

@wordtalk:

Is the question so hard?

Or is there something I am missing here with you 3?

@wordtalk:

Apologies but what Enigma is saying is obvious to many of us!

Its easy (as it were) to say you believe in "church" tithing! Its a totally differentything to say Deut 14 splits tithes amongst "fatherless", "widows", "stranger" AND "levite"! One "insists" its church ONLY whist the other says it could go to others! The church only advocates say church should do the giving to others (as church sees fit) whist the supposed anti-tithers say "we can give ourselves as led".

For saying so, such people are seen to be in rebellion to God's Word!

What Enigma is asking you is thus simple - do you believe tithes can only be paid to church (and thus that its only church that can disburse) or do yoy stand with those who say God can lead a man to give directly to a cause outside of church?

@Enigma:

Highlighting the words he did shows he has answered the questions and confirmed the veracity "according" to the person engaged in such activity!

I think he is saying eitherside has their merits. What I see as your own thrust is that he mentions what he calls anti-tithers and NOT tithe-mongers in a "seemingly" derogatory manner!

A little more time will clarify. But for now, the compulsory tithe mongers have gone to sleep

AS TO YOUR QUESTION ->

My personal belief system does NOT hold unto percentages! Very VERY recently, a stranger walked into my place with a problem nobody could deny - it showed on her! She probably thought I'd give her a "mite" as people usually do but I wiped out the entire bill! Such is what I personally believe is required of the Believer - to listen and give 1%
OR 100% as the Spirit decides! And I am honest - there are cases when I suddenly feel REVULSION when asked - why, I do not know! Cases also abound where I wish to give more than is on me and do so!

I sincerely honestly find 10% ridiculous BUT there are times I give zero and times when its like I do all.

Your question is thus better suited to wordtalk than me - I might actually be considered crazy with some I did and stingy with others! But the decision came from "inside"

@Enigma:

Would be surprised if that is true as it negates the "voluntary" part and totally gives credibility to Adeboye's position of 30% returns giving to normal people, 60 if you give to pastors and 100 if you give to "high priests"!

Since wordtalk has said he disagrees with this, it can't be that he'll agree with the "lemon's" submission

@wordtalk:

Please! I am honest in saying that (to me) the level of intellect displayed by current participants (aside a lemon) is such that we can do without friction!

What the others are trying to do is get you to have a "defined" position! if you knew the history of this issue here, you'd totally understand. Please let's keep this civil - the thread destroyers will soon be here - let's learn before they arrive.

PLEASE!

I have an idea of your theory (history); but we champion truth and thus can't allow emotions and\or suspicion sway our thinking!

Wordtalk has in his defence one crucial issue and I'll not make that mistake twice. I read his post askance and asked questions based on my understanding. So maybe "garyarnold" did same but rather than confirm, he went ahead on the premise as he saw it and "wordtalk" balked at that!

Let's leave it at that!

@Enigma:

I see your point now! Lawyers desire for absolute clarity negating the fine print!

I think "wordtalk" covered these when he used the word Voluntary!

That word gives the "tither" full and TOTAL right to disburse as he decides - as cash, groundnuts, goats or a computer! It also allows his right in deciding where he "GIVES" his tithe!

"wordtalk" will soon become very unpopular on this site for daring to have his on mind and disagreeing with the MoG championers

@Enigma:

"wordtalk" has expressed his own convictions - the fact that he disagrees with the RCCG position speaks volumes about his mindset - he "reasons" and what he is saying is same as what we say - "IF" it is voluntary and based on full disclosure, then it is fine! This more so when its not done for gain or as an investment but for worship as he stated. Let's cross the blindside bridge IF we get there.

My only fear was those parasites who hung on to his words as support for their own avaricious practise. Now that he has clarified his position, we both know that to these, he has become an anti-tither since he shares our position.

^
^

I sincerely do not see how any reasoning person can disagree with what you have just stated and I am clapping for you here!

I have been considered an anti-tither whist NOT actually being so. I think I speak for a few others here that its not so much the tithe but the "compulsion", threats and suchlike that accompany the issue when being taught from "MANY" pulpits that many of us stand against. I too know Pastor Bakare's views and if that was what was preached, I wager there would be few dissenting voices here. What we are used to hearing is very different and then we get called unbelievers, demons (even dogs) for daring to refuse to agree with what some call men of God.

Now that YOU (their last bastion of reason for tithing) has clarified, I wait to see what those who have hands but prefer the sweat of others will call you - one is online with us!

And I will watch out for your posts as the little I've read shows a "reasoning mind" that does its own findings - the Berean Mind - that being an ingredient missing in most Christians!

I try to avoid discussions on tithe as its obvious its a painful subject to those who "gain" from it. And the best (who can articulate themselves clearly) have themselves concluded it is a voluntary act which has nothing to do with the official "primary" thrust of the Christian walk which is Salvation!

But reading this thread, I find wordtalk stating something. Before going further, I think I should say his position seems tenable enough - it is a "voluntary gift", "non-compulsory" and "laudable" to support ministries. To his words -

even from[b] within Nigeria I don't think that there's not even a single pastor that does not preach tithes on voluntray basis[/b] - so the highlighted part in your comment is inaccurate

@wordtalk:

IF YOU ARE SHOWN specific incontrovertible example of respected "men" of God insisting that tithes are compulsory for Christians, and a requirement for salvation, will you take back the above statement?

Do you believe payment or non-payment "tithes" determines a human's success in life and that non-tithers are cursed?

As stated, this is not an argument I wish to wade into ! "yes" and "no" are simple honest answers I will appreciate and thank you for

I think the thing is - the "examples" worked! They had jobs, businesses and other concerns. They were true in the sense that the Gospel was a portion that they chose to do "pro bono" yet make more important than secular activities (we believe)!

The lazybones today does nothing else and to justify his sorry existence, has to be seen to be busy! How better than to make church the start and end; the be-all of his laity's existence? He has nothing else to do since he is slovenly, lax and jobless so he needs the congregation to vcome in 2ce daily (if possible) so he can function.

The real joke is the witless bozo who believes 18 church attendances weekly is his "godly" service

Numbskull!

A mentally deficient brain cannot place a space between "character" AND "and" or know that Michael Jackson is not more anointed than Billy Graham simply because he pulls larger crowds

Dimwit!

@sweetnecta:

You promised to obey me if I showed you that all Muslims will go to hell. After I showed you, you said "everybody" will go and that to you was a defense!

Why should Aletheia or me or anyone take a liar serious?

Or can you deny that you did not say so or that I did not show you?

Go suckle on a Camels bits - you are a lying animal

@Zikky, Aletheia and Enigma:

Why bother? Ogoamaka99 proved himself long ago to be a boastful yet empty, proud, lazy and mentally deficient characterand we all know Jo supports only what supports his belly.

Its obvious makamaka edited his post after Zikky had quoted it and its equally obvious Jo has now realised but doesn't have the honor to apologise for his wrong "JUDGEMENT"!

Wha amazes me is the idea mooted by the former numbskull that it is only certain people like Revd King, late Akinola (lion of judah) and our odulele that have "activated" Abraham's blessings

Uncle "only MOGs"

Another of your gods was just found dead of a likely drug overdose just like MOG Revd King was found killing people, MOG "lion of judah Akinade" was found to have 4 other wives and multiple children after he died, MOG "rccg pastor" was found to have embezzled 7 BILLION (not million) a few years back. MOG odulele is still in jail for homosexual + statutory rape right now!

I can go on and on and on!

The point is that ONLY God is true and good and God touches us directly - we do NOT need a special MOG connection because ALL REAL Christians are Men of God! We know you are trying to sell yourself but the comedy is over and I prophesy destruction will come upon you this year if you do not stop misrepresenting God's Word deliberately for personal gain.

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride!

Anyway, I thought the general consensus was that Yookos had "overtaken" FaceBook! It should be even easier to register JoLand and "overtake" NairaLand plus in that situation, Moderator will be a small thing too meager for a god who owns the world.

Just please close the door behind you as you go

But we all know that the lesser IS blessed by the greater?

And our "MOG"s here have told us that Christians are superior to Abraham, Isaac, David, and ALL other OT people who are even now learning from us!

So why do our MOGs want inferior blessings?

Or is this a confession that they were only manipulating scripture for their own purposes before?

Rccg = mount zion
Lion of judah = mount zion
Chris embassy = mount zion
Pastor odulele = mount zion
Revd king = mount zion
Olumba olumba Obu = mount zion

Faith does not come by the Word of God anymore but from pastors.
The Holy Spirit cannot teach anybody again apart from pastors

Dude, you should be in a cage!

The life of Christ Himself! The life of HiS Apostles - they show lack, deprivation, pain etc. And Christ asks us "if the servant can be greater than the master"!

Why do we not have a single Apostle who lived a life of wealth? Why do we not have a single one who found his succour in the sweat of others? Why did these people walk in power but that "spiritually"? Some people here are quite wealthy BUT have come to understand that you cannot take from the poor for the rich - that is a travesty of reasoning. And that is what most have against Jo!

Mazaje has said Jo backs up his tricks with biblical quotes. PLEASE humor me and study satan tempting Christ on Olives - did he quote from the Koran? Or perharps you believe his understanding came from the 256 oracle in Ifa? Dude had something to gain FOR HIMSELF! Truth temains that there is only ONE way to divide truth - motive!

What does Jo stand to gain from tithes, first-fruits, prophet offerings, offer 7 etc AS a pastor? A great deal of cash ehn?

What do I stand to gain from saying the Christian life is about freewill giving and not taxes and lies geared towards enriching a few? You want to know? Ok, read the next few comments about me and this post.

Then answer - which sounds like satan on mount olives?

Remove the log in your self-righteous eyes first! Prove that those you have been going around calling "sons of belial" and "sons of perdition" are what you called them.

Jesus said there are people who did great things in HIS Name that He will deny saying "I NEVER knew you" - is it Muslims that do great things in HIS Name? Is it Shango worshippers? Is it witches that do great things in Jesus Name?

Or is it people who call themselves Christian Men of God but who are liars simply using God's Name for self-gain AS the Bible says?

R was Jesus lying that some would pretend? Was the scripture confused when it said false prophets and Christs wouldf arise and lead many astray?

Wake up

Please, let us see further than the surface - Jo is simply using the "stand up for long" as an example.

Until he confirms that as something that is truly done rather than an illustration, allow him his day.

I do agree with nlmediator it is silly but Jo has not said he does not literally - give him benefit of the doubt

@dare2think:

According to above post, Charity is "bus-stops" AND "bridges". So wetin be your wahala?

SCRIPTURALLY, God has ALWAYS associated with poor, helpless and downtrodden so giving "these" is as close to giving God as possible.

The missionaries exemplified this by bringing drugs, food, education to the "poor".

Offer - what? Please Sir, thank you but no, NO offerings. Wouldn't want the curse associated with lying for self-gain to convince me I'd look better with jerry-curls.

Sad though, that this thread is losing the promise it initially showed

LOL

@mazaje:

Me Sef don become prophet "Daniel" on this thread with my prophecy of the "NL Spirit" manifesting on this thread.

You should accept the Supernatural now O