₦airaland Forum

You are harping on a word. Why? LUCK does NOT mean mistaken-happenings if you consider the context I used it in. I have said here over and over that God decides what happens to men. "The lot is cast into the lap, but the whole disposing is of the Lord". So, a man God decides to give wealth may be considered luckier than one who is not so blessed (lucky) by an onlooker. When you replace the words as I have used them here, you will understand me.

If however, your desire is to "win" an argument, good for you! Right now, you have your moment of glory. Enjoy it! There, was that ok? Is the glow still on? Do you feel better now? take another deep breath then consider - what did you hear? Clapping or emptiness? You now know the truth - You people are living a life of "us versus them" and so will support yourselves through truth and fallacy!

On health, why have so many faith healers had health problems when all they needed was the "new birth" and "name and claim"?

@Vescucci:

If it will help you further, let me state here that arguing based on the written word in the Bible alone cannot prove either sides case. As has often been bandied about, anyone with a mind to it can read anything they wish to into the Bible. It has that singular distinction of supporting every concept, whether noble or nefarious.

Truth however cannot be hidden when you truly want it.

^^^

Revelations

18:1 After these things, I saw another angel coming down out of the sky, having great authority. The earth was illuminated with his glory.
18:2 He cried with a mighty voice, saying, "Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, and she has become a habitation of demons, a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird!
18:3 For all the nations have drunk of the wine of her impure passion, the kings of the earth committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth grew rich from the abundance of her luxury."
18:4 I heard another voice from heaven, saying, "Come out of her, my people, that you have no participation in her sins, and that you don't receive of her plagues,
18:5 for her sins have reached to the sky, and God has remembered her iniquities.
18:6 Return to her just as she returned, and repay her double as she did, and according to her works. In the cup which she mixed, mix to her double.
18:7 However much she glorified herself, and grew wanton, so much give her of torment and mourning. For she says in her heart, 'I sit a queen, and am no widow, and will in no way see mourning.'
18:8 Therefore in one day her plagues will come: death, mourning, and famine; and she will be utterly burned with fire; for the Lord God who has judged her is strong.
18:9 The kings of the earth, who committed sexual immorality and lived wantonly with her, will weep and wail over her, when they look at the smoke of her burning,
18:10 standing far away for the fear of her torment, saying, 'Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city! For your judgment has come in one hour.'
18:11 The merchants of the earth weep and mourn over her, for no one buys their merchandise any more;
18:12 merchandise of gold, silver, precious stones, pearls, fine linen, purple, silk, scarlet, all expensive wood, every vessel of ivory, every vessel made of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble;
18:13 and cinnamon, incense, perfume, frankincense, wine, olive oil, fine flour, wheat, sheep, horses, chariots, bodies, and people's souls.
18:14 The fruits which your soul lusted after have been lost to you, and all things that were dainty and sumptuous have perished from you, and you will find them no more at all.
18:15 The merchants of these things, who were made rich by her, will stand far away for the fear of her torment, weeping and mourning;
18:16 saying, 'Woe, woe, the great city, she who was dressed in fine linen, purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls!
18:17 For in an hour such great riches are made desolate.' Every shipmaster, and everyone who sails anywhere, and mariners, and as many as gain their living by sea, stood far away,
18:18 and cried out as they looked at the smoke of her burning, saying, 'What is like the great city?'
18:19 They cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and mourning, saying, 'Woe, woe, the great city, in which all who had their ships in the sea were made rich by reason of her great wealth!' For in one hour is she made desolate.
18:20 Rejoice over her, O heaven, you saints, apostles, and prophets; for God has judged your judgment on her."
18:21 A mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and cast it into the sea, saying, "Thus with violence will Babylon, the great city, be thrown down, and will be found no more at all.
18:22 The voice of harpists, minstrels, flute players, and trumpeters will be heard no more at all in you. No craftsman, of whatever craft, will be found any more at all in you. The sound of a mill will be heard no more at all in you.
18:23 The light of a lamp will shine no more at all in you. The voice of the bridegroom and of the bride will be heard no more at all in you; for your merchants were the princes of the earth; for with your sorcery all the nations were deceived.
18:24 In her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all who have been slain on the earth."

Obviously Babylon is the false church which becomes the order of the day. Why does the Word ask that we come out of it, not "forgive others and move on"?

^^^ According to your last post, this was about what the Bible says. Very legal! But according to all we'd said, it was obvious we were going into the realm of experience to "understand" that same Bible.

I feel I received a sucker punch! No offense meant, none taken - just wish I'd known earlier!

^^ Now you are talking. This thread was legalistic and aimed at proving a point, not geared towards finding truth.

Well, let me state something I deliberately kept back during your thread "Inerrancy of the Bible" - The Bible as we know it became available 1, 500 years ago and only in the last 200 years has it been truly available to society at large. Yet Christians/Believers lived all those years. Seth, Noah, Enoch, David, etc. All those years! Yet you would have us believe that answers to all questions are to be found only in it? No, brother, God is inerrant and His witness is true and when there is doubt as exists now, God (or funnily enough, the Holy Spirit, according to Jesus, is the final arbiter). Where you wish to know the position of truth, you'll find it is not doctored to suit any human and usually might even be uncomfortable. What do we gain from saying God is one yet three? Whats the purpose of saying the HS is a personality? You feel its just an act to mystify, to sound different, important? Or an attempt at self-immolation, a desire to be mocked? Which of us here sounds insecure except the one who would assuage his own (self-perceived) inadequacies by trying to ridicule others?

I just saw another thread I've been alternately laughing and shaking my head to, for a few minutes. Please take a look, MyJoe, then tell me what you think of the mindset behind this thread after reading it. Or check almost any thread started by same poster and see what its about or ends up about. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-342153.32.html

Anyway, thanks for confirming twas but another attempt by DS to again bring his favorite hammer to bear on his favorite victim - the idea of "trinity". Now we know any slowpoke is "great" as long as he has issues with "Trinity" and even hitherto revered atheists become "disappointments" when they refuse to kowtow.

^^^ Insults would be wasted on you - you're totally gone so all I do is tell the truth about you! Because it is truth and BITTER, you see them as insults. Meanwhile, what you do is call on sentiment, noise, fanfare and merriment. Sadly, you find neophytes easily since thats what people want - enjoyment. What ends up happening is that most of them end up turning away eventually as evidenced by your fruit. Theft, fraud, scams, immorality etc. How you believe that profits God, I wonder, especially as most are so traumatized, they won't hear the word "believer" again without anger!

You say you give. I agree - you give false hope, fantasies, delusions

And yes, THEN it becomes their personal problem after you and chris embassy have sucked them dry. When they are stealing and bringing to you, they are your holy brothers. When the game is up, they're on their own with the police! But what does that say of you?

Seriously speaking, you believe that having money is a sign of being blessed by God. So you search for it, pray for it, live for it and worship it. I believe that having God is my blessing. So whist the money is there, its of relatively little consequence to me and is a tool I utilize in making my society better and expressing love.

The most amazing part of your post is that you believe Solomon was responsible for what I wrote and that I was quoting a failure - you're an amazement, jo-boy and whats more, an insult to Christianity. I quoted the Word of God - "all scripture is given by inspiration of God", remember? So tell me again - whose Word was I quoting? No wonder you don't read God's Word but only erROR by chris yaks.

You ask me to read the word of a true failure - a dandy, fake phonetics speaker with an inferiority complex. Or what is it that makes a man following "one who had nothing in His appearance that we should desire Him" to fry his hair, use makeup and pamper himself like a LovePeddler if not vanity?

Let me end with another quote from your "failure" (the Word of God) - Vanity upon vanity, All is vanity!

^^ What they'll reply to that is that they are the true followers of the "True" Gospel which allah promised to protect. Sadly, they do not have a copy of this Gospel which just shows they themselves believe Allah failed.

If I were Allah, I would cancel all of them for making me become a liar. Anyway, maybe thats why the fire is being made ready for them as promised them by Allah

^^ One would have thought any reasoning human would understand that "the lions mouth" signifies the "jaws of death" which BTW, is another allegory of danger. When people say "jaws of death", do you see teeth shining in the face of death? When last did you see death? What manner of human looks for holes so much he starts to look stupid all by himself even without any help?

In the day I cry and also at night <---> from the beginning of my tribulations even to the end. How difficult was that to reason?

And of course, David was CLEARLY speaking of Himself? Okaaaaaay, and it was muhammad that entered the "lion's mouth" and brought him out, abi? So now its David, where's the lion? And David was nailed to a cross? and surrounded by those who cast lots for his cloths?

This is just talk for the sake of talk and makes no sense.

@uncle ignorant-donkey:

I will cry as much as I wish and what will you do about it?

Nobody knows islam. islam knows everyone. Yet your OWN koran says go to those (US/ME/Moi) who you say know nothing when you want knowledge cos you are a truth rejecting jackass!

So who is lying? you or the Koran? Please let us know!

^^^ To be sincere, after reading MyJoe's posts above, I was coming here to state that this is to me, a waste of time. Enigma's post above though, will likely bring this discussion back to life. On the other thread about the Holy Spirit, I wrote earlier that I'd have to pass exams to become a lawyer. Whether or not I read wider than all the QCs in the UK, this would still be the case. Maybe thats what this boils down to but I took an exam with the infilling of the Spirit. It was a personal experience and I relate to what I received as a personality that speaks, guides, reasons; not an impersonal force.

I do get MyJoe's points and respect them. If I didn't know what I've experienced, maybe you could convince me but I assure you, thats all just a lot of english and interpretation. Call it delusion or whatever, my reality is different from what you've eisegised. And I use that word deliberately. As it is said "the difference between truth and fiction is that fiction has to make sense".

Thanks for the wishes for the weekend, MyJoe. I wish everyone the same.

And Chukwudi44's input does tip the scale somewhat, doesn't it?

@newmi:

Seems you read my post without considering the conversation that came prior to it. I suggest you do that. My post was in answer to the idea that Christians should be rich on earth if they know what they are doing. I say wealth just like children, good health etc are of God. Yet the Bible documents Christians who did not have these things and God does not have a problem with it.

Joagbaje proposes a Gospel that rewards people on earth - say it and its yours, come to Christ for the money, Victory is your right! That is wrong any which way you want to look at it. Battles are not always to the Strongest as we saw with David and Goliath. And wealth is not always to children of God as we see in the New Testament - the people the Apostles took collections for were poor people. Were they not Christians? Why didn't Peter, Paul etc tell them "rise and claim it"? Why did they accept it as normal and ask that the church take weekly offerings as each person felt led by the Spirit?

The word "weekly" shows it was normal. That they took offering for them shows they were "needy", not rich like pastor jo says must be. That they didn't condemn it show they accepted it as NOT a problem with God. That we're arguing about it shows what about us? One person believes, like the Apostles of Christ. The other? make your claim!

Trials and Persecutions are NOT treated in my post because Joagbaje turned the entire issue into a money based issue!

@Zikky my Bro:

Long time. How now?

@Joagbaje:

"Morever, when God gives any man wealth and possessions, and enables him to enjoy them, to accept his lot and be happy in his work -this is a gift of God" Eccl 5:19

It is a gift not a right! Does everyone get the same gifts? Before you answer, think!

"I have seen something else under the sun: the race is not to the swift, or the battle to the strong, nor does food come to the wise, or wealth to the brilliant, or favor to the learned; but time and chance happen to them all" Eccl 9:11

Time and Chance (luck) not "name and claim"

"There is a time for everything and a season for every activity under heaven" a time to be born and a time to die, a , , , . ., a time to weep and a time to laugh, , " Eccl 3:1

"Moreover, no man knows when his time will come" Eccl 9:12(a)

Combine Eccl 3:1 and Eccl 9:12 together and what do you get? There is apparently also a time to be rich and a time to be poor (since all things have a time) AND no man knows his OWN time. Confess and claim all you want - its rubbish. Time and chance are determined by God, not by you and the combination of time and chance are what is called "luck".

"sufferhead" as you call it is what Christians better than you faced that made the Apostles of Christ gather offerings for them. If you feel they were wrong, fine. The Apostles obviously didn't know as much as you, to your thinking, which is why they didn't shout at them to claim and become rich. And why do you have poor people in your church anyway since all are called into wealth? why are your members stealing society blind so chris embassy can pay for satellite coverage and chris can fry his hair? Or is he broiling it now? Why did the bank staff take 60 million? Was it because they were so rich they had NO money?

I am rich Joagbaje. SPIRITUALLY. In the flesh, I can give you what chris gives you but won't knowing I would only be supporting the laziness and sloth that made you his lackey in the first place. But I am not rich physically. All I have is held in trust for Christ and while I drive a nice vehicle, it belongs to me because He gave it to me. Thus it is not me that is rich but HIM in me. That is the wealth the Scripture talks of - what is truly available for God not what you siphon off innocent people in the name of God and use for yourself. Think - if you had a life, would you need the trappings of wealth, position and power to make yourself look good? No, because you would know you have real life. But because you're empty, decaying, stinking, you need to cover up with protestations and allusions to "blessings". A white-washed sepulchre, Christ called you!

But resembling who, slowpoke? Moses, the wealthy "god" of his people? Enoch who walked with God? Elijah, the fiery prophet? Isaiah, who saw visions that scared him? Jonah, who lived in a fish? David, who wanted to give all to God and was TOLD not to? Malachi, who rebuked the priests? Jesus HIMSELF, who had no place to lay His Head? Peter, the poor fisherman? Stephen, stoned to death for his testimony? Paul, who boasted in his infirmity and poverty? James, who said its not just mouth (as you do) but actions (which you run from)? John, banished to solitude on an island because of Christ yet gave a WEALTH (do you see what wealth can mean now?) of prophecy because of that?

OR

the Pharisees, the Sanhedrin, who had the high places, the adulation of men and "togetherness" against the truth as long as it brought them money, position, fame and the ears of Pilate thought they were slaves?

Dude, thats all you are - a slave to chris! Do you dare to say he's wrong about anything? ANYTHING? Hunger will kill you if you do cos you sold yourself out! Or you wish to say he's perfect? You're just so easy to upturn. Empty brain, mighty tummy. Worshipper of food and a lackey!

Meanwhile, knowing you're a certified idiot and not wanting to insult you further, let me only briefly remind you that I never begged for anything from ogoamaka99. He offered in the same spirit of pride with which you postulate then cannot defend. My whole point in accepting his "fake" offer was to prove he was lying and it was achieved. The dude has tried to come back a couple of times but he had been exposed so he is always ignored or shown the hole in his head. I won't be suprised if he has a new id now on NL. At least, he has shame unlike you and for that, I give him credit. You are too far gone, it seems.  Keep sucking chris and lets see where you'll be in just three years time.

Christianity has nothing to do with suffering and/or poverty. The payment Christ made was for Heaven not earth. Christians can truly be wealthy but that is not bound to the belief system. Rather it is dependant on luck, hardwork and God's particular purpose for the individual. Thats why we have such as Solomon yet such as collections were taken for. Also Jesus said - the poor will always be amongst you- and He was not speaking to those who hated Him but people who believed Him.

Joagbaje:
God didnt  call us into "suffer head" There is difference between suffering persecution and trials and suffering poverty and sickness. If a man is experiencing suffer head, it is due to his ignorance because Jesus has paid the price for such .

Sad that the Apostle Paul (whom you follow) suffered a thorn in his flesh. I imagine that if he'd waited till now to come to earth, you'd have taught him how to avoid that thorn. Baby-teeth Apostle Paul who didn't know such a thorn was rubbish that he could have cancelled as easy as saying "I claim it in Jesus Name". Yet the funny Paul thought he was a servant of God even though he was poor and sick.

Sad also that Jesus didn't have a place to lay His Head and promised same to His followers. If God had just remembered to create "Joagbaje" just prior to that time, you'd have taught the Lord that all He had to do was name and claim mansions for everybody - all He had to do was sell miracles and collect tithes, wasn't it? And imagine all those needy Christians whom the Apostles took offerings for - they were just greedy people who had all they wanted yet insisted Christ's Men should make them millionaires - I hear they really liked eating free food.

Anyway, all the above were passing persecutions and trials, not poverty and sickness - normally, Jesus lived in a mansion and was served breakfast, lunch and dinner in bed by any of His 200 Servants. And of course, Paul the Apostle used to play football, basketball and hockey for Israel - thats how strong he was physically.

Hogwash

Anne Rice is walking away on the basis of perversion of terms. The church has mainly become the LovePeddler of Revelations, following the god of the world. Seeing as that LovePeddler is what has been renamed Christianity, leaving it is not tantamount to leaving Christ. Indeed, the true church are referred to as "Ecclesia" or the called-out ones and Jesus Himself said a time would come when true believers would worship in Spirit and in Truth. That presupposes there would also be worshipping in the "flesh and in error", does it not?

Anne Rice is then leaving fake organised worldly "churchism" which has been renamed to mean Christianity and saying, "Hey thats what I'm dropping NOT the teachings, mold and truth of Jesus". It is another matter whether she is sincere about it.

The difference between your allegory and what we have here is that yes, there are "illegals" in Nigeria but these are few relative to true Nigerians. In Christianity, it is  the "real" ones that are few and are being choked by the majority "fakes". Since true believers are not bothered about titles, adulation or terminologies, its like saying "take the name whist we hold the truth"

PrinceEmek:

Kind words - thank you. However I cannot for the life for me find any allusion (by self) to having DeepSight by the gonads. Please show me.

I stated that DeepSight is not a Christian and thus I believe him unqualified to explain something which he has NOT experienced. An example is me saying all lawyers are criminals because I met one who was. Until I know ALL of them or conversely, the thoughts (entirety of) behind "lawyering", I am a neophyte in the field. I would have anyone accept I can go to libraries, read up on law and be accepted as a QC without passing exams just because I insist I have read enough. You too have not passed our exam process here and thus are not qualified.

As to the Holy Spirit '

He speaks
He teaches
He can be Grieved
People are baptised in His Name which means He has a Name of His Own

I can provide dozens more. Do "energies" or "powers" speak? teach? get grieved? I can just imagine baptising your last consciousness or grieving your "voice"!

The thing here is, the Christian understands where you are coming from since he went past that. But he kept going and experienced a personal meeting/revelation which informs his view. You and DeepSight, on the other hand, seem to believe that since you have not experienced that, it is untrue. Says a lot what you actually think of our mental capabilities, does it not, whist doing the clap for our intellects in the same writeup? Friend, you are in the wrong seeing as you don't have what we have - a personal encounter which will make you see not just the words but the person behind them!

Personally anyway, I still maintain that my true belief is "Hear O Israel, the Lord your God is One God". His manifestations however, may be myriad.

Welcome, Anne Rice, to the gathering of those that worship God in Spirit and in Truth

and the above comes from one who would insist he has understanding of other belief systems and thus can query them. Basically then, you believe you can understand other belief systems but no one can make sense of yours except you. Quite a manner about you there. Dude, if you can't take it, don't dish it

@Jesoul - great to see you back here though my hopes had been, to hear you visited the stork to pick up a wife for enigmalet. Soon, ehn?

^^ Ajoguegbe:

Why does it bother you at all? Have you forgotten that truth is bitter? Thats the reason why any thread that says the truth will be locked up. On the other side of the divide, error always sounds ridiculous and errormongers end up shooting themselves in the foot.

Please forget about your locked thread and discuss serious issues. Even when you don't say it, conscience, good sense, history and truth testify to the reality and the longest most obnoxious posts cannot change truth. What they do is show there is pain in some people. Finally, whenever you start to feel angry about what seems like unfairness to you, remember that a "prophet" once called you " a man given to learning and not proud" whist he called his own people "donkeys, ignorant men who resist truth"

What more do you need to remember to make you smile?

^^ Friend, seems to me its you that the banter is eating here . Don't mind TV01 abeg - he's just pulling your legs. However, and in the Spirit of truth, looking under the words he used to glean the meaning he passed across will serve you well.

Grace leaves you under no obligation except gratitude which is what you'd like to say informs your desire to give, right? But that is you and you cannot decide for another whether it is service to the poor or helping a widow fetch water or teaching orphans for free that is the manner in which they show their gratitude. Have you ever considered that the only one that matters to the men on the pulpits is the cash that comes into their coffers? Is that their own gratitude?

@DeepSight & MyJoe:

Please show us the figures of speech used in John 14:26 and Acts 10:19

@Enigma:

Yes I did. Seems very selective yet made to seem all encompassing.

@MyJoe:

Most Deists do not believe God can do all things. Its one thing to say "God is able" and another not to take the alternative path to Truth if it is offered. Maybe its me but where I see a man that chooses wrong over right because he sees (what he believes to be) "gain" in it, I believe such person to have decided God doesn't have the capability to fulfill such persons hence the choice of wrong. Mouthing it is NOT living it!

Another way to look at this is in our primary beliefs - some here insist light is equal to darkness i.e. God is the good side = Satan which is the bad side. That in another way, is a limit being placed on God! Same is the issue of God being impersonal.

BTW, your Acts 28:25 & 26 quote that you have translated to Is 6:9 does something you seem not to have considered - it PROVES that the authors of Acts believe God the Father and the Spirit to be one and the same Person. 1 God manifesting in three ways, remember?

So yes, you are right - when the Spirit is talking, it is God that is talking. Is God then not a personal sentient being? Yet even without that, we have the following

Eph. 4:30, "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."

Rom. 8:26, "And in the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words"

Acts 10:19, "And while Peter was reflecting on the vision, the Spirit said to him, "Behold, three men are looking for you."

1 Cor. 2:11, "For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man, which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God."

Acts 5:32, "And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."

John 14:26, "These things I have spoken to you, while abiding with you. "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

DeepSight asked how Christ could say "not mine but yours" yet we say they are the same!

Enigma has done justice to the issue but let me add this - The sacrifice of Jesus would have been a farce (insincere, unfair, unworthy) if He was not a man! That said, He would not have been able to achieve Sinlessless were He not God. The fact is though tempted, He could not sin - it was not His nature. It is this duality that has caused a stumbling block to so many. Yet it remains the truth. And that duality explains two personalities fighting. Maybe its not apt to use this as example, but has not science proved the existence of the human that is like Jekyll and Hyde? A split personality? Take it to wherever you wish to but you get my point here.

The human had a will and we see it expressed here. Consider that its being included seems a weakness - would DS argue his opponents case? Why then is it there if it is not just the truth?

@MyJoe:

I'll answer your question with one of mine - could you please list 10 things you believe God cannot do?

This thread was opened for the purpose of ridicule. It has progressed to desperation, a rabid attempt to stand ground ( ) and to pass across the desired smattering of insult. In the rush to acheive purpose, OP has shown a marked lack of intelligence. I cannot but remember idiots anytime I read the stuff posted here in an attempt to seem applicable.

FYI, calling Christ names will not reduce Him a jot just as calling muhammad a prophet will not make him one - inside you, there is a nagging voice that sees the contradiction, the real truth and keeps trying to manifest. Kill it a million times, it will resurrect and again state truth. That is evidenced by the desperation, the anger, the tendency to violence and the desire for ignorance. It is fear that all your past years were a waste.

Well, OP dude, they were! What will you do about it - waste the ones up ahead as well?

^^^

Jesus said: "I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE. NO ONE COMETH TO THE FATHER BUT BY ME"

Allah said : "Vedaxcool is an ignorant truth rejecting illiterate and should go to nuclearboy if he wants truth and to have understanding"

Nuclearboy says: "Understanding will come only by listening, not having pre-conceived notions based on lies"

Vedaxcool says: "I must keep lying. My nature is lying. I will not feel ok except I lie. Lies forever - insha-allah"

Until you clear up the above, talking to you is just talking to a donkey that loves lies. Your OWN GOD has called everything you are saying the lies of an ignorant truth hating donkey. So when I say Allah gave you a foundation of donkey brains and an aversion for truth, please blame and curse Al-ilah, not me - he said so and I only just read it in your HOLY koran. Or is the koran lying? Or is it not there?

The above is according to ALLAH and MUHAMMAD, not me! Go sit on that until you stop being a donkey (which means accepting truth)

nopuqeater:
I have plenty to make you know that you are an idolater, you worshiper of a servant of God.

With the above, when God is not the Author of confusion, we know it will not be the "Bible" that represents the truth of God.

An illiterate truth rejecting donkey (according to his own god) calls a person who worships the true God (according to the donkey's god) who the donkey's god says should be his teacher when he is confused, an idolater.

Does it make sense that your own god would ask you to consult an adolater for truth about worship, truth and God?

So yes, the true God is not the Author of confusion - it is the spirit that says you should consult "adolaters" that is confused. Which brings me to my question - Is that that same spirit that said you should consult "followers of the book who are learned, knowledgable and not proud" or is it your donkey brain that has changed truth into a lie? Think about it and choose whether you are following the one who said "go to the people of the book for enlightenment" or another one.

[size=4pt] - comes in, sees a pastor is here to answer the question, turns to leave; suddenly realises: sheat, its chris' pastor NOT Christ's Pastor. Ah well, lets fix this then -[/size]

Deutoronomy explains that if the Israelites were with God, He too would be with them. If however, they turned away, He'd in His turn, also turn away. One of the things they were guaranteed of was that when He was with them, they would have victory over their enemies. Conversely, His absence would ensure they were conquered, enslaved, separated and taken away.

So yes, the Babylonians, Assyrians etc won Israel, plundered them and entered the holy of Holies. BUT that was when the presence of God had left them evidenced simply by them losing the battles prior to the plunder.

That is the Biblical view. Whether anyone believes it or prefers to see it as an excuse is immaterial. What is of note is that the condition was present before any of these battles and study of Israel before these wars show their defeats followed a period of turning away from God.

Great thoughts there, Vescucci, and I'm sincere in saying you don't portray the regular NL poster - a dude with an agenda and a mousetrap. Rather, you're fast joining my hall of fame here.

However, you missed my point which was - did the falling of the tree produce noise? Look at it this way. 2 days back, we both walked past it and it was standing. Today, we again walked past and it was down. so that is not in contention. We KNOW it fell. Question is, did it make noise when it fell? Thats what is at stake.

Concerning Jesus and the HS, I find it rather funny that its Jesus you find existing because of us. Did you ever see God "the Father" to know He existed outside us? Truth is that brother, Jesus is the only manifestation of God we ever saw. The OT God could have existed only in the minds of worshippers. Jesus was "real". But I start to "stretch" issues.

As to God having power over all, yes. I would think commiting suicide is possible (if only in an understanding based manner) too - it would just mean stopping all things and none of us would ever know, ehn? Cos we too would "stop". So let me ask - when you great grand father died, how could you prove to him that God had not just committed suicide?

Turning in too. BTW, replied your mail.

Great night, guys

^^ Glad you agree God can do whatever He wishes to do.

Your question about manifesting if there were no us reminds me of another - if a tree were to fall in a forest and there was nobody there to see/hear it, would it make a sound when falling? I hope you get my point. Jesus is God, simple, whether there were people to manifest to or not. I used the idea of a bird precisely because of Jesus. And I notice you separated God from the bird whist I said "Could He have decided to go as the Bird Himself?" We both agree He COULD but you wonder if He WOULD. Neither of us can answer that.

However, the possibility that He could ratifies the concept and also ratifies Christ.

I do not ratify Trinity. For want of a better means of describing the GodHead, people have decided to use the word - it works and so it has come to stay. However, when clarity is sought, such as this discussion comes up. What I say is that there is one God and He has shown Himself to "different" men in a myriad of ways. However, to ALL men, He has shown Himself in three basic ways [1] A Spirit (fearful, totalitarian, awesome and unfathomable). [2] A Body (which dwelt amongst men and shed His "Glory" [3] An indwelling presence (which leads, guides, convicts, empowers and comforts).

Because these 3 are what is common to the generality, they are what are considered to make up the GodHead. However, they are the same personage and in real terms, God is One God.

Your question to Enigma - my 2 cents - Equality is relative and based on function - do your part and you're part of the team, so to say. Clothed in flesh, Jesus limited Himself but still remained the fullness since God is a Spirit. And they have the same wills. But where a Spirit has no restraints, a body has and if totally suppressed when Jesus walked the earth, His experience/life/sacrifice would have been a farce. Thus, the body was allowed its full complement in decision making.

There is NOTHING God cannot do.

Thats why He is God - no limitations, no laws, nothing. Whether it looks "funny", "crazy", "wrong" or "beneath Him" to us, He, seeing all, knows why He does it

Any god that has limitations and cannot do something is not the true God