₦airaland Forum

@Ogoamaka99:

Its quite interesting that you find my first post interesting! I find that interesting - reminds me of the number of times traps were set for Christ by seemingly "sincere" Pharisees.

Anyways, what the Word of God (not a commentary designed to suit a man's agenda) says is "My sheep know my Voice". If you are one of His sheep, ask your Shepherd and He will take you to where He wants you to be, not where tickles your ears and makes you feel good most. As for me, I will not take the place of God - they are many that will offer you that service.

Such churches exist for those who want truth. The hints I can give you concerning them are these -

Such places do not advertise or do jamborees.
They are not ambitious "financially".
They do not believe that membership numbers or cash inflow or big cars/planes mean success.
They are not looking at this world and they force you to continually look inwards.

Be Blessed, brother, whether you like me or not!

^^^ Bros:

I meant no offence. NONE whatsoever. I just brought a mirror into the discourse and mirrors can be "funny" when you look at your reflection!

But it remained in the spirit of light humor, at least to me! And thats the honest truth! And as for vescucci - he definitely knows I was laughing with him.

@Toluxa1:

Bros, you're operating under a wonderful "anointing" O. If nuclearboy had tried to post the above, the armed forces, civil defence, OPC and Niger-Delta militants would be braying for my blood by now. Even "winches & winzads" would be angry now!

I remain grateful for people who speak truth and refute error.

@newmi:

I'm a work in progress.

On criteria, lets use just one - Nobody likes to be told "your mouth is smelling". Now if it actually is smelling, the person we will hate most is the one who tells us so. Meanwhile, others have kept quiet laughing behind your back OR feeling sorry for you OR not concerned cos they feel its not their business. But we hate the person who says it to our faces! YET this is the person who is helping you because him telling you SHOULD MAKE YOU GO CLEAN YOUR MOUTH. That is the right thing to do, not abuse him. If you abuse him and call the guy who laughed behind your back, that one will say "of course, its not smelling", then go laugh some more. If you call the one who felt twas not his business, he will tell you he's busy and will come later. But one guy will look you in the face and say, "friend, your mouth smells". This guy, you hate! WHY?

Where most of you have a problem is message delivery. But you forget we all have our own characters. His character may make him say it in a way that is kindly, OR like a joke OR insultive OR insensitive etc. BUT he told the truth.

My initial posts on NL were always friendly but it was not long before some showed as deliberate liars and others as listeners. Many people here do not agree with me yet I do not speak harsh words to them. Why? But some, I cannot be bothered to try to reason with because its obvious they have decided to hold on to lies no matter what they see to the contrary.

In Yoruba mythology, Satan is described as the best friend, the supporter who while the victim cries tears, cries blood, thereby supporting continued apathy rather than healing. Whist he does that, his own agenda is being fulfilled.

Jesus is the one who you hears words like "Hypocrite", "Generation of Vipers", "White washed sepulchres" from. The pharisees had loving soothing words. Peter was the one before whom Ananias and Sapphira fell. The Pharisees would reason it out and show you their good works. Jesus, these Apostles AND ALL the prophets in the OT are the lone rangers, the upstarts, the ones who were considered "rude", "unflinching", unyeilding","not understanding". History has shown us the truth.

But now you will say I compare myself to Christ or Apostles when there are people here whom you love who say "they are God", "rule the World" etc.

I found an article on the web that I liked very much which deals with Satan's ways and the insidiousness of evil into the Church. If it will mean anything to you, take a look at www.thepathoftruth.com/falsehoodexposed/essenceofsatan.htm.

You may be suprised to find Satan is your best friend whist God is the one who always makes you feel bad cos He tells the truth.

But me, I'm a work in progress. Only thing I know is that I've got to the point where I TELL THE TRUTH!

^^

@Vescucci:

If you were a lawyer, I just know you'd be Satan's advocate.

@Bros Prince:

No wahala - Anything you say. All this "turenchi" is still on this desire to burst my boyish bubble? I'm here clapping for you and singing "winner e e E, winner, winner e e EEEE, winner, Prince, you don win O, winner, patapata you go win for NL, winner".

And I admire your desire to flaunt your divinely commanded exposures of my "pride". But your vocab - I fear!

One question - please, is this a helping of your everyday vocabulary or was all this just in honor of my insolence? Cos if this is how you express yourself normally, mehn, maybe its time to leave NL (especially seeing I'm nobody's opponent and plan not to look over my shoulder).

Enjoy your days, Expounder!

Driving so will reply in depth later. Consider though, that a perfect lie is couched mainly in truth. As the Bible says 'dead flies spoil the perfumer's ointment - so also does a little folly destroy much wisdom'

@Pastor Agbaje:

[1] You say "parental authority" is not "spiritual - what is it and from whom does it come?
[2] What happens when the father is also a "Pastor" but the child attends another ministry probably due to working outside town? who has the "spiritual" authority in such case?
[3] You say marriage is a "spiritual" institution and only in church does the anointing to "bless" exists? What of those marriages that took place in a registry? Is God absent from such or have such lost God's Blessings? What church did the Apostle Peter marry in?
[4] This pastoral "spiritual" authority - what happens to it where the pastor falls by the wayside? Is it transferred or kept "in holding" till another submission to another pastor. Like in the case of such as Jimmy Swarggart, perharps?

Please! Let us learn from you

^^^

And I thought DeepSight was the legal one! And why is everyone throwing all these grammar at me. Wetin I do una, abeg?

"Idiomatically expressed, my banter was fashioned to mildly needle your implied superlative scriptural understanding, which your anemic modesty lets seep through. "

All this just to tell me your desire was to show me my "prideful arrogance" over my assumed scholarship of the Bible showed through? Wow!

Tell you what, friend - you need to take a closer less "serious" look at me! Vescucci just today said "he wouldn't take much of what I say too seriously". That doesn't mean he doesn't get my point - it just means he understands I have a humorous manner of passing my points across. DeepSight is likely not offended by my manner. Likely he gets it that the stuff I wrote/write is not based on this thread alone but on NL history - my history with DeepSight who will tell you himself that I have a great deal of respect for his brain but wonder at his repeated "attacks" on this one issue. And I am human in doing that. This is not a court where we deal as though nothing else exists outside the current issue.

So it does seem somewhat "Voltron-like" for you to come to his aid. That dude can take care of himself, I assure you. All he has to do is go into the "ineluctables", the "incontestables", etc and everyone on NL takes cover.

BTW, it makes not a jot of sense to me to inquire as to what you believe, and to condemn or applaud it. To each his own - I know that and wonder who else does As for me, its the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Whosoever doesn't agree can follow whatever they choose. And I mean no offence by that.

@DeepSight:

Based on your command, I'm here. Seeing as there's no need reinventing the wheel, please take a look at the following sites. I'd really love you to give a few minutes thought to them and let me know what you think

http://www.letusreason.org/wf25.htm
http://www.gotquestions.org/Word-Faith.html
http://www.intotruth.org/wof/tract3.html

Sincerely, I believe 1st order proponents of these (What I'll call group A) to be mostly criminal and 2nd order proponents (group B) to be members of the crowds who welcomed Jesus into Jerusalem - one day they hailed Him and 3 days later howled for His blood i.e they are in it only for what they can get. Group A on the other hand, sees this and seizing on that, offers a "way", a formula - confession, excitement, togetherness (cult like), enjoyment etc whist getting paid by group B.

But as you will have seen from the sites above, when group A members temporarily fall into group B, there comes no "healing" or "miracles" or "blessing". Best case of a scam I ever saw with the prey most vociferously defending their predators

Meanwhile, wetin you do Tudor?

@Tudor, if you dey here, I'm prostrating O!

8pm ehn? I'll be here to see that explanation

If you prove the Holy Spirit is but the "force" or "energy" of God as you would have us believe, the concept of 1 as 3 collapses to 1 as 2 (following which of course, your next target would be what you call the carpenter). Forgive me but it seems somewhat daft that a few Billion of us waited this long for you to come let us know that "fact".

If that is not an attack, please tell me what you'd consider such?

I am a Christian, DeepSight, and I would rather model my life on that of Christ and His Apostles rather than that of the joagbajes of this world. What is reprehensible about them is what separates them from what they claim to follow. One easy hint - show where the Apostles of Christ took "food" from hungry sheep rather than fed them

^^^ Here's my take, DS! This thread is about the Holy Spirit which is the third member of the Trinity. Any discussion that attempts to separate the Holy Spirit from the Godhead is discussing the Trinity.

Lets suppose for an evil instant, that you were able to "prove" your assertion against the Holy Spirit - what would that impact on aside the concept, understanding and belief in the Trinity?

EVERY post on this thread except our last few "jokes" were about the Trinity, brother!

@vescucci:

I keep using my favorite hammer on that chap just in case someone would sit up, consider what I say and understand that is not representative of what Christ's disciples preached. As you may well imagine, its a joke based on a fact. Apparently, my humor is lost here.

Oga:

Please have mercy. This is straight forward - My understanding of God is three manifestations - a Father (Creator Judge), a Son (Creator Bridge) and a Holy Spirit (Creator "friend" - my support system).

You on the other hand, have the following "gods": <<<------- "-4", "-3", "-2", "-1","0","1", "2", "3", "4", "5", "6" ------->>

Fine by me. Please note I have not come after your "gods" or your understanding of them. My God says "I AM THAT I AM". whether that means He's female, looks like a wrist-watch or has two noses - HE IS THAT HE IS. Thats what I believe.

Stick to your convictions of YOUR god. Btw, apologies - I forgot the other number systems in yours - "1/8", "1/4" etc. My bad!

My Oyibo Oga:

Allow me. I actually had a few other and I think, more apt descriptive terms for the dude but I wager NL servers would likely collapse under the weight of such. Sincerity is not a word in their language. Its all about the moolah and the adulation of men. I wager you'd have a different view of Christians if you could bring yourself to mentally remove such people.

As I keep saying, the prophet of Islam must be very happy the dude is not a muslim. Imagine the good he has done for that religion just by not being one of them.

Joagbaje:
Stop counselling people with errors! You are not in the right position.
1.You've not been an example of a true Christian with the kinds of venom you vomit on NL.
2.You don't have a church.

These disqualify you to talk about what church to belong and the character of a Christian . Stop poisoning people with your ignorance and start reading rhapsody.

The above from someone who
[1] says God cut Eve out of Adam
[2] Doesn't know what happened to Moses whether he died or not
[3] asks whether "magic" exists or not when the Bible says it does
[4] worships another man because of "food"
[5] believes "confession" is all that makes you a christian
[6] believes only pastor chris can understand the Bible and so believes others should read the book of er[b]ROR[/b]s

Meanwhile this rhapsody of ridiculous postulations is what all the criminals we keep hearing about read, ehn? No wonder you too think like you do.

FYI dude, whether you say so or not, Christ knows His Sheep and I am one of them. I do not report to you but to Christ - allow me do so and please go and report to "chris" since thats where your sustenance comes from.

And Christ forbid I leave the Word of God and replace it with the word of chris!

^^ Chei:

See English - all for me alone? And I thought I was literate. Wow!

Anyway, you seem to be deliberately taking this a bit too far. DeepSight started this thread, not you. I accused him, not you. My "unhappiness" (if anything on NL can actually make anyone truly unhappy) came from him and the idea that you seemed to understand what I had not - that it was based on legalism. If indeed I made you out a villain in your understanding, I apologise - I intended that DeepSight alone, my favorite villain on NL (i.e., aside the crook Joagbaje).

Mehhhhhnn! This your english lesson reminds me of a teacher who eventually felt he had to show me he was better than especially me at vocabulary. That was high school 30 years back. I wonder if the dude is still alive. I intend to go report you to him - maybe he'll come damage you with some of those words he used on me without mercy then.

Take awhile before replying please. I intend to spend the next 2 weeks in libraries finding out what your words mean then another week discovering if Odu---- still is alive to come defend my honor. Cos now, I feel ra.ped!

@DeepSight:

Let me put it like this - God is God! infinite, eternal, judicious etc are words we use to quantify our understanding of Him.

Call it whatever you want. The Bible was written by many different people who wrote "their own words" under inspiration. I have heard of people who believed Minna is the biggest city on earth. Thats is their "world" view and it is right based on the information available to them! In 2000 years time (assuming existence still exists as we know it), it is likely man would have colonies on other planets. And they would have a right to say we (in 2010) must have been morons to say earth is the only planet habitable by man. Reality is relative!

Inerrancy is not the point here. And anyway, the Bible as we know it, became "commonly" available less than 500 years ago. Before then, people worshipped God as well as we do today. So the Bible is not the only source of knowledge about God. It is a guide-book, not a master's theses in rocket science that requires/uses precise linear and abstract algebra computations!

Your mouth - your right to use it. I do not have recourse to defending God or limiting Him with descriptive terms. But without your flowery self-serving grammatically correct style, He defined Himself point blank - "I AM THAT I AM". Make of that what you will.

yommyuk:
The Holy spirit revealed to me that in the church today, there are 4 kind of ways in which the Word of God is recieved. These were revealed by our Lord Jesus Christ in the parables of the sower.

3. There are also others who hear God's word, but all too quickly the message is crowded out by the worries of this life, the lure of wealth and the desire for other things, so no fruit is produced. These are those who come to the church with other motives in mind. They are indirectly satan's agents. They are in church for what they can get from it. They are those who want to harvest where they did not sow.

Ecclesiastes 9:11-12
I have observed something else under the sun. The fastest runner doesn't always win the race, and the strongest warrior does not always win the battle. The wise sometimes goes hungry, and the skillful are not necessarily wealthy. And those who are educated don't always lead successful lives. IT IS ALL DECIDED BY CHANCE. BY BEING IN RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME. People can never predict when hard times might come. Like fish in a net or birds in a trap, people are caught by sudden tragedy. Why?
The answer lies in Ecclesiastes 7:13-14
Accepts the way God does things, for who can straighten what he has made crooked? Enjoy prosperity while you can, but when hard times strike, realise that they both come from God. Remember that nothing is certain in this life.(Food for thought hey!)

That is why Apostle Paul wrote in the Book of pHILIPPIANS 4:11-13 THAT "Not that I was ever in need, for I have learned how to be content with whatever I have. I know how to live on almost NOTHING or with EVERYTHING. I have learned the secret of living in every situation, whether it is with a full stomach or empty, with plenty or little. For I can do all things through CHRIST who gives me strength.(Amen)

Where are Joagbaje and his gang that welcomed Jesus into Jerusalem? They never show up when truth is displayed? Number 3 describes that "human" so well its like Christ and yommyuk were thinking about him!

^^^ Okay, Bro.

Enjoy the coming week

@Ajo:

Hi Bro! Sorry but you made a mistake here. Truly there was a flood but it was not global - it was localised.

What you may want to consider is that mankind was not spread over all the continents at the beginning. In effect, all were in "Mesopotamia" which therefore, was the entire KNOWN "world". Any flood covering that would have been considered by a writer, to cover the whole world since there was no other known world/lands. In that then, you were right (it was the world they KNEW) but in absolute terms, you were wrong. Today, we know better. Also, only animals local to that portion of earth would have been required to be in the ark. I do not know if lions are found there but if they were not, they were probably safe in Africa. Same with all others. Don't be suprised to find there were probably relatively few of such.

What you are trying to say will be understood by a Christian but you've used wrong (not enough) information to pass across your point. Also, Titanic was a major disaster and it seems (to me) wrong to compare it for it makes God to look proud, uncaring or vengeful.

^^^ Yeah, yeah, since it is Nuclearboy, you have to disagree - its in keeping with your prefering to hold things against people rather than follow truth.

So we should cancel doing charitable work by ourselves and only give to churches like your own so that they (being God) can distribute to their own charities after buying personal jets and SUVs for all members of their families ehn? And when they do so, they of course take news crews along so everyone knows they are giving to charity. And I never did see a motherless baby that wanted a car. Did they give you one is why you support them at all cost?

Dude, I have nothing against you except that kind of thinking. Maybe you should read yourself again - very arrogant tone like you know best and the sun shines only when you give it permission.

PS: I do NOT hate any church - I only hate "some actions"

@Rhino:

I'm not certain I get your "turn the other cheek" issue. And yes, mostly Christianity the "true" way is easier said than done. But people exist who do it, not just say it. The issue of tithes has been dealt with too many times on this forum and nobody has a monopoly on knowledge. My personal take is that christians are meant to build society. Call it gift, tithes, offering, whatever, just give. But I prefer to give myself rather than to another man to disburse as he sees fit. Most of the converts you see in the Bible believed because they saw love (they were healed, catered for, saw others helped, witnessed miracles etc) not because they received promises of "trillions" on earth if they brought money to the Apostles. The love they saw taught them to also give to others and so the love spread.

On selective approaches, I'm sure you know we're not all at the same stage in our understanding of God. And we're not all sincere about our woership too. If it walks, quacks, swims and looks like a duck, its likely a duck - is the decision aimed at self gain (no matter how beautifully justified) or based on an untainted conscience (and likely to cost the person)? You get my point.

@Rhino:

That horn you pushed into my back get as e be O. What I said was quite simple

[1] We find the boundary you asked about AT the point when Jesus completed His mission. The veil covering the Holy of Holies was torn at that time Matt 27:51 - That curtain was the demarcation between what was inside (God's Presence) and what was outside (humanity). In effect, God was no longer hidden or isolated from mankind and all mankind had direct access to Him. That presupposes that they actually decide to "get/be in touch" with Him.

[2] The Bible considers the old testament laws to be perfect BUT condemnatory. In effect, while they were perfect, they cannot be fulfilled by man. Therefore God provided a means whereby we still can receive justification - Jesus and the Grace He brought. Belief in His sacrifice cleanses and following His life pattern ensures we have Him, as it were, on our side pleading for us when we do wrong! That is why the Bible condemns those who believe it is just by making noise (mouth) that they have believed and thus can do whatever they wish.

Unfortunately, most supposed "christians" fall into this category and have changed the look of the "belief system" to more of "delusion, excitement, and self based". But where there are no originals, there cannot be counterfeits

I hope this is clearer.

Bro:

Aside your foregoing, another question comes to mind - did "trinitarians" or the "RCC" write the Scriptures? where do we place the torah which speaks of the Godhead as one yet shown not as one? Or was that written by the RCC too?

The boundary was the completion of the work of the Christ. At that time, the veil in the temple was rent signifying that even if all men could not go behind the holy of holies, ths presence in that place had come out. There was no longer a need for a priest or arbiter - everyone had access

The laws of the old testament are true. However, "legalistically" speaking, that are unattainable and thus can only lead to condemnation. The NT provided grace to cover the legalism of the "perfect law" since motives will likely now be the criteria.Thus whist the NT "grace" covering does not cancel the law, it helps us. In this manner, they overlap yet without cancelling either and both remain applicable - "do we believe and then do anything we feel like? No, because faith without works is dead!"

We are not meant to continue in sin but where we fall having the limitations of flesh, we have an advocate who recognises our weaknesses and can plead (as it were) on our behalf.

The above explains the scriptural point of view.

@vescucci:

You're not been fair. On His side, you need to add "mathematical infinity" and "win by fire, by force"

On my side, you need to add "Pastor_AIO", "Viaro", Chrisbenogor", "Inesqor", "Davidylan", Noetic" and all the others whose worst nightmare is their words becoming "uncontestable, ineluctable, moot" PROOF that they are saying the opposite of what they said.

@Aletheia:

nuclearboy:
"Hey thats what I'm dropping NOT the teachings, mold and truth of Jesus". It is another matter whether she is sincere about it.

Did you notice the bolded? I do understand your point is why I posted that Caveat.

And madmax is right, true love is not selective and does not say "my friend is right just because he is my friend". Christian love is based on truth and regards all men, whether an Osama bin Laden or a David Oyedepo as a creature of God. Who does wrong will be the wrong party before God regardless of belief - How He deals with it is His business

True Christians exists -

[1] Such are not in Christianity because it offers to solve their problems but because they believe the way of Christ is the right way. The way of Christ is to do good, to fulfill Isa 61. If you are His, that is what you'll do and then you will get it.
[2] If you see a MOG who leaves his village to Ilorin, then to Lagos then to London, Paris and New York AND you then see another who is working in a bank and says God called him to go become a missionary in the bush where there is no light and he does it faithfully, which would you call "a man of God"?
[3] Churches exist where it is not about noise, excitement but truth, depth and honesty. There are churches where you leave every sunday bouncing, laughing and excited. There are also churches where you feel convicted of sin - where the pastor does not mind you leaving his church; all he does is preach the bitter truth knowing that is God's message. Which do you think God wants you to attend? Remember it is a narrow way not meant for everyone and that many have itching ears and so are led astray!
[4] There are churches who give you names of charity homes OR encourage you to find such and give to them yourself. I know one where you can decide to "adopt" a child (he/she will not go home with you) and pay for the child's upkeep. You might be amazed to know that 5, 000 a month will make this child light up and scream "daddy" anytime you appear. It brings tears to the eyes to take a pack of sweets and see children who never tasted a sweet. Some people are sponsoring 5 children and when they get to school age, sponsor their education too. Whether they are muslim, atheist, christian is beside the point. They are God's creation and He will be your reward.

Truth is, Friend, when you get among the truly poor and needy in society, you start to despise the giant cathedrals, SUVs, monuments to self etc that are been built in the name of God. Start off by helping that poor widow who can't pay her rent and as you get to know such people, you will almost hate the current crop of MOGs who believe having billions and jets is what makes them favored.

I know I'm likely the last person you wish to read from but the above tells you how some of us see it. Remember Isa 58: 6 & 7. I pray God gives you the grace to see how bad it is for some people and that you can become a tool that helps His creation.

@DS:

Please I said -

MAY!

MAY!

[size=15pt]MAY! [/size]

[size=18pt]MAY! [/size]

[size=24pt]MAY BE MYRIAD![/size]

NOT are myriad - I do not limit God. And that doesn't mean He is "infinity". Remember that before the words ineluctable, deductible, moot, indefensible etc come up in your posts in describing what I said!

Just as I keep saying you're not sincere about any threads you start. You have set your mind to your desired "end" and so all you do is just work towards that. Else, how would you reconcile the fact that you are the only one everyone says same concerning - Chris went so far as to call you double faced and double sided in the other thread for this reason. Another phrase for that description would be "win at any cost against this issue".

And so we see David, Chris, Viaro, Inesqor and who else now avoiding you cos its like givng advise to a piece of granite.

Issues will be addressed yes, but so will personalities, especially when it becomes obvious there's a scam going on!

I'll be waiting for your next Trinity thread (in fact look forward to it seeing I too now know where to come from) and wager twill be here soon and will likely solve the problem once and for all.