₦airaland Forum

Uncle Vedaxcool:

Its all over the Bible, this script you're asking about. It is the main message in the OT. I am sure you didn't take physics at WASC level after opening a page of Nelkon and Parker and reading two sentences or did you? so why do you think you can read one verse from the Bible in isolation and make up your mind based on that and ignorance alone. How intelligent is that?

Meanwhile, you are making me start to really like your Koran. The more you write, the clearer one great truth in it shows to me. Remembering that truth always makes me smile. I can't tell you sha cos you may beat me since I am a small whining boy!

Enjoy your day

^^ Bro:

us babies consider any/every/all to be ONE! The one at which's peak we're currently serving (or is it being served?) is the ONLY one. Even if it is 700 at home and 300 outside like the "holy" prophet sulaiman.

Been awhile I saw modamo online? Wharanppa (as Abuz would say)? ? 

@MyJoe:

I see and now get where DeepSight was coming from. I had earlier wondered. Your above somewhat makes sense. However, I (and guess most Christians too) tend to think of the HS more as a "in existence" personage with attributes such as intellect and desire. Note that this description of a personality is not negated by any attribute/description above.

Its like say, you accept my will over a matter. We both know I'm not a force but that I can exert influence. So it is with the HS. Someone who conforms very closely to the Christians ideals as espoused by Christ would be seen as being of higher infilling of the HS than say, your average church goer. I believe that brief summary simplifies and clears up the above

Noetic would be better placed to answer you. DeepSight is not a Christian and does not believe in the Holy Spirit.

Last time you asked, I answered this question you are NOW asking.

But what was your response. Repetition! Is this rocket science?  Isn't it obvious that in reading Psalm 22 as a final acceptance of the prophecy that He was fulfilling, He knew He was fulfilling a prophecy therefore - knew about it aforehand!

Now tell me - how hard was that to deduce?

And of course, you had to throw in an insult there, didn't you? Whining NucBOY! But, Vedaxcool, saying I am whining is fyi NOT an insult. Don't you know I am a BOY (with baby-teeth [ ] too according to your "christian" equivalent Joagbaje). That gives me a right to whine, doesn't it? Are you jealous that a small WHINING boy is able to understand a simple thing that you can't? Don't be angry or jealous, it is that same Holy Ghost that is renewing my mind and sharpening my wits. Thats why those without it are reprobate!  AND babies like me are never frustrated - a helping from one pair of brea.sts (not 72), a burp (not ogogoro in a prayer keg), plenty of sleep, change of diapers and we're ready to go again.

Enjoy your day - my "whining" is finished FOR NOW. Hope to whine some more soon when jealous Uncle Vedaxcool (I will report you to my daddy) repeats the question in another way. 

^^
Friend:

I waited so long to see your response. Apparently, you had made up your mind. What you fail to realise is that everyone has a right to their beliefs. If God truly wanted all of us to be Christian or Muslim or Atheist, do you think anyone could stop Him? The witness of time and the spirit informs us that what binds species together is not religion but the togetherness of being that - the same species. Lions will hunt together. Antelopes will run together. It is only men that prefer to fight themselves even when boundaries are not overlapped. When you pray facing Mecca, it does not disturb me. When I call "Jesus", it ought not disturb you. If God doesn't like either, He can handle it Himself.

I would expect that you explain your position about your religion clearly and ask questions sincerely, not with the intent to ridicule. As I wrote to you earlier, Muslims find it more painful when insults are thrown and I just find it sad that we always come to mud throwing here rather than learning why others believe what they do. If your argument is that some "christians" also do it, you're right! But you think them to be idiots, abi? So if you now do like them, what does that make you?

Here for example, look at the post before your own and then come back and look at you saying christians are stuffing verses down you. That single post alone is almost more than this entire thread. Yet your tone is condenscending and attritive - like spoiling for a fight. Why? Why can't we just get along? Discuss your religion with your people and learn more of it or do you know all of Islam? Why bother with our own? Please!

PS: I'm not fighting O - I have nothing against you - only the fire brigade will soon come and its shameful we start these things. Now if it is me you have something against, not my religion, please insult me as I will insult you if I think you did something wrong. But facing belief systems is childish - my daddy's farm is bigger than your daddy's own OR my mummy is finer than your own, clap for me.

[1] Petres_James-Bond
[2] Noetic (takes no nonsense)
[3] nuclear (the NL BOY)

@DeepSight:

Waiting for your theses

^^ Okay, try follow this

[1] Your friend is a pastor
[2] That means he is doing God's work (if he was called by God)
[3] He has a problem concerning ministry work which is therefore, God's work
[4] What he should do is go to God for help NOT ask ANY HUMAN BEING for advice.

I hope you understand now. Peace!

Considering its not his "business" but God's work, I think he ought seek God's Guidance rather than advice from men (any or all men). If truly called of God, he definitely has a connection that will ensure he "hears" God's counsel. Thats if God's mind isn't already clear from the Word of God!

@Ogoamaka99:

Dude (abi na GIRL your friend image123 call you sef), you still have the nerve to come out again to further expose the ignorance in your life? Please tell me more about the "glory" of MOG (I take it that means the pastors you decided are MEN OF GOD).

I really need to know about this "glory" of men - could you please draw up a table or chart showing God's Glory on one side and then the glory of men on the other side so we baby-teeth understand this new kingdom you and oyedepo are building?

BTW, when did you become a dispenser of leprosy and worms? I cry for your emptiness

^^ I think you forget there is a difference between God and our "understanding" of Him. What you're trying to do is make sense of the difference between these two positions - likely a fruitless pursuit. My personal experience is of a Creator who is so close you cannot see Him and yet so far you can feel Him. You on the other hand would have Him "removed" and impersonal.

As to legalism, would you say I was legalist if I were to say nope, all animals are not men were you to say men are animals and thus vice-versa? Which is the point - the "precise terms" come from translation rather than reality.

DeepSight, from the beginning of time, we all know you will one day die. Are you dead? Again, you would have things intepreted as it suits you and I find that disconcerting and not in tandem with the mind I am reading. I believe you understand the idea that once sin entered, the plan of atonement came into being and it was as good as settled. Compare it to Abram being told he was a father of nations. Well, wasn't He when unveiled? These are almost childish level understandings, I'm sorry to say. Anytime you pick the bible, read it as a naija man knowing words are open-ended. The Lamb was indeed slain at the beginning - intent as good as reality.

Your expectation of God is at odds with what you presume the OT describes. Your presumption is wrong as it negates God Himself giving kudos to the understanding of men. Let me give you another view - that of God Himself. Once, He described Himself to Moses. He said he was "I AM THAT I AM". Not good, vengeful, poor, terrible, kind, whatever you may like to consider Him as BUT ENCOMPASSING ALL THESE AS WELL AS ALL THINGS/DESCRIPTIONS WITHIN AND OUTSIDE EXISTENCE. Wouldn't you say that is a better description since it comes from personage Himself? Why restrict yourself to what a "flawed" man put down and which was allowed since he was writing for "flawed" men like himself?

I think its all about personality and the fact that rules have been made which give God to have "human-like" characteristics (to our thinking). Used to be confusing in the past.

I hope these questions will not surface again over and over whenever your lawyerliness decides they will strengthen his case. I will endeavor to settle them though I suspect it to be a pointless exercise.

Internal inconsistence (?) 1 - The issue of sons of God.

Maybe its high-time you downloaded e-sword. The translations therein will explain the problem you have in this. E-sword describes your "sons" to include and are NOT limited to - a son (as a builder of the family name), in the widest sense (of literal and figurative relationship, including grandson, subject, nation, quality or condition, etc., (like H1, H251, etc.): - + afflicted, age, [Ahoh-] [Ammon-] [Hachmon-] [Lev-]ite, [anoint-]ed one, appointed to, (+) arrow, [Assyr-] [Babylon-] [Egypt-] [Grec-]ian, one born, bough, branch, breed, + (young) bullock, + (young) calf, X came up in, child, colt, X common, X corn, daughter, X of first, + firstborn, foal, + very fruitful, + postage, X in, + kid, + lamb, (+) man, meet, + mighty, + nephew, old, (+) people, + rebel, + robber, X servant born, X soldier, son, + spark, + steward, + stranger, X surely, them of, + tumultuous one, + valiant[-est], whelp, worthy, young (one), youth.

So DeepSight, considering the word also refers to foals, arrows, boughs etc, what say you of the term "foals of God" or "rebel of God" or "robber of God"? We both know the english language is one of the most limited languages - acultural, bland and lacking imagination. Thus we find that the word translated as "sons" in the phrase "sons of God" is used only in the widest sense.

On the other hand, the word "Son" as used in describing Christ from the same source translates thus - a primary word; a “son” (sometimes of animals), used very widely of immediate, remote or figurative kinship: - child, foal, son.

Your argument is legalistic and is similar to saying "men are animals" means "animals are men".

Capishe?

Internal inconsistence (?) 2 - The issue of not always striving with man

Your question is a rehash of many in the past and again basically requires that I again go into the issue of a bridge being required between God and mankind. Allow us both preserve respect for each other rather than waste time on this. At the time (Gen 6) written/inview, the time for the bridge/peace/reconciliation was not yet, so strife it was that continued. The expected end (which came to pass on the cross) was that peace should come again between God and man.

Internal inconsistency (?) 3 Repentance of God

The word repent is translated thus - properly to sigh, that is, breathe strongly; by implication to be sorry, that is, (in a favorable sense) to pity, console or (reflexively) rue; or (unfavorably) to avenge (oneself): - comfort (self), ease [one’s self], repent (-er, -ing, self).

To the above, I add "to shake head at". I think you'll understand that easily because I know your thought processes make you to "wonder" at us just as we "shake head at you". A man given choices who chooses the worst possible which is readily transparent to you would likely make you wonder. Exchange "A man" with "humankind" and "you" with "God" and you'll get my point. I think the problem is something in you rues the idea that there is an Almighty seeing whatever things you think are so "funny" you've done so you'd prefer a "distracted" or more "impersonal" God. I doubt you're alone in this though and in fact make bold to claim that the day you come across any professing Christian who hasn't gone past that position, tell him this chap says he's not a true christian. Sh.it happened to us all and we were ashamed to see the man in the mirror.

One last thing - Omnisience and omnipotence are inconsistent terms which cannot be justified. An all-knowing God and all-powerful God must be so powerful that He can do anything. That would include asking a question He himself cannot answer. That kills the all-knower. The all-knower would know things then that He cannot do also killing the all-powerful. The Bible is open for anyone to see - God gives Himself rules and does not go against His own Word. Once He says something, He is bound by it. That kills your omnisience argument. BTW, where do you get such arrant rubbish as Christian belief?

I expect the ferris-wheel upstairs to be going faster than light now, spinning to bring up attempts at rebutal of the last. Slow down though and think through that last paragraph again. There's something hidden there thats easy to miss if over-speeding.

@KunleOshob:

Don't blame all for the insanity of some. I'm certain you know some (individuals) are true Christians

^^^ Inter-wrestling? Twould be like Mighty Igor fighting a 4 day old baby. Joagbaje is a baby in these things.

@Jo-boy:

[1] Satan will truly be terrified that we've found out you're his number 2 agent on NL (behind ogaga-whatever)
[2] Me and SirJohn never met and owe ourselves nothing except truth. Sychophancy is what you do with mr oyaks, not when I agree with someone who has found truth and rejected your evil ways
[3] The Bible defines faith clearly and its not what you say it is. You know naught aside Er[b]ROR[/b] which is mutually exclusive of the Bible?
[4] God's Religion takes care of the poor, the widow, the "needy" and favors truth above all men. THAT is the Bible. Your religion subjugates truth and God for chris-yaks and takes from the poor for your pockets.

BTW, were you on suspension from CE? You disappeared for awhile and I was hoping chris yaks had gotten tired of your empty defence of CE shallowness and fired you? The shock would have been God's greatest gift to you as then you'd have seen life from the point of view of those paying rather than those collecting and learnt what love is and the effect your insanity has on innocent people

@MyJoe:

Maybe the following will explain the believers' point of view

[1] Angels lived in Heaven
[2] They sinned and were cast out onto earth.
[3] They took on bodily forms
[4] The bodies they now "owned" allowed them to be able to lust after the women

Noetic simply says -> Spirit beings which is what they were IN heaven do not have such desires. It was only when they inhabited BODIES that such became an issue. Thus, a heaven in which there will exist only "spirit" beings is not a location for conjugal relations.

Consider that these "angels" are not stated to have deloped their lust (at least for women) in heaven but rather were on the earth and saw how tantalizing and bodacious beautiful the women were

Comprehende?

joagbaje: twould have been nice if your statement above were true. Sadly though, when satan looks at you, what he sees is his mirror image. Consider firstly, that you don't even know what faith is as proven in your conversation with Sirjohn. The Bible defines faith as trust, belief, obedience etc in God whist you and deluded chris (actually, he likely knows truth but prefers cold cash) say it is making noise and claiming whats not yours to command. How then would anyone in their right mind say its me that that follows God's Word that is anti-faith and you, high on sapele number 5, is of faith? Better wake up

^^ Thought you took orders from pastor chris! How then, does that translate to you ruling the world for surely, it ought be him ruling and then he too has mentors so they rule etc etc etc. All these just suggests confusion in you and yours!

Unfortunately, Pastor_AIO's humor is lost on his audience here. I think the idea is that just as OP turned facts (obvious to Pastor but not to OP) on their head, Pastor decided to throw into the mix, another "crazy" concept having about as much veracity. As stated, God was asking if Job knew enough to or could command times, seasons, etc. He was definitely not requiring him to command creation.

Pastor simply said  - If you decide to command what is not yours to command, please continue by doing the IFA thing. But maybe I'm wrong!

@Aletheia:

A study on the web will show that "ttalks" is right about this issue. Strongs' is based on the KJV so it carries the error. Take a look at http://www.crivoice.org/lucifer.html or whist a "funny" site, http://www.lds-mormon.com/lucifer.shtml. Knowing that "And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." (2 Cor 11:14), you'll find it quite easy to understand the transition as our "Essence of Satan" discusses; of satan wishing that he substitutes roles with Christ in the sublimnal thoughts of men if not openly.

EDITED: This issue like many others shows the extent corruption we have in Christianity. Things are turned on their heads. You come across many screaming "God must give them 20 Million daily and heal all sicknesses in real time" since God has requested us to command Him concerning His children (Isa 45:11 - another mistranslation in the KJV). And so with this particular issue, we would revile the Morning Star since we have him as "satan" rather than as Christ Himself.

What worries me most is the deluded sincerity of many "christians" who come swinging sword and spear, striking out at people simply because their errors are being questioned and truth being shown in its place. Kevin Ewing almost definitely wrote the OP post in good faith yet is misinformed and is spreading errors.

^^^ You turned everything upside down. Firstly, Matt 26:39 comes before Matt 27: 46

In Matt 26:39, Jesus looked ahead, saw the coming 24 hours or so and the "human body" was afraid. Liken this to the beatings your father gave you as a child. When the cane was being gotten, you were afraid knowing what was coming - were you wrong? Then we move along to Matt 27:46 which has been addressed above. Using Imhotep's words, Jesus "knew exactly" what He was saying. That was the beginnning of the recitation which was a confirmation of the process He was going through.

On being forsaken, yes God turned His back (as it were) for He will not behold iniquity and at that moment, Jesus was carrying all the sin of the world. Forsaken then is not betrayal but turning His back. The two terms differ!

^^
I'm not into tarot readers etc. However, I know you cannot show me a "fake" 2, 000 Naira note. Why? The original doesn't exist.

BTW, in the past, Nigerians did use friends and associates to launder money. Whether they used email to solicit for such or not is out of the realm of this discussion.

@Tonye:

Show me where I said Jesus apologised to unbelievers! Show me where I said He ever made a mistake that He would need to apologise for it! Does it mean so much to you to reply that when you have no rebuttal, you turn to twisting what people said so brazenly in public? What does this serve if not to give fuel to unbelievers that christians like to lie (like you did here with your reply)?

Yet once you lay your foundation of folly (since I didn't say what you are accusing me of), you quickly go ahead to build a home of error on it.

Try show us all the correlation between my post and your reply

@Dolemite:

Sorry to burst your bubble but there do not exist "fakes" where there does not exist "originals".

Whether you find only 2 in every million, what matters and is true is that there are some (few though they are) that are true Christians.

The Hinns, Whites, etc all represent the money-based side of Christianity and you will see people like the OP on theis thread who are Christians yet do not support these "criminals in the pulpits".

Your assertion is like saying "because there are very many love-peddlers on earth, all women "on earth" are love peddlers - would you state this? This is not a "us versus them" thing where we support Christians because we are christians (I personally am ashamed of much of what I read here about so called Christians) but just the truth

@Dolemite:

Sorry to burst your bubble but there do not exist "fakes" where there does not exist "originals".

Whether you find only 2 in every million, what matters and is true is that there are some (few though they are) that are true Christians.

The Hinns, Whites, etc all represent the money-based side of Christianity and you will see people like the OP on theis thread who are Christians yet do not support these "criminals in the pulpits".

Your assertion is like saying "because there are very many love-peddlers on earth, all women "on earth" are love peddlers - would you state this? This is not a "us versus them" thing where we support Christians because we are christians (I personally am ashamed of much of what I read here about so called Christians) but just the truth

^^ Tonye:

Most times I really don't get what you people think I am. I can be really gruff but I do not see Christ or His apostles rubbing people's backs in the Bible. If you want, I can put together a list of curses and "cursing annoyance times" in the Bible and you know as well as I do that God started it in Eden. Whist satan was Eve's friend, God was her worst nightmare. However, that was "in mouth" and we know the true friend "in reality". Its still the same today!

I'm sorry but I have no apologies if I see someone turning God's Word and I lay a pipe on their backside.

Its easier to apologise to an un-bel because they do not know and have not what we claim to have. What excuse should I give a christian? Do you forget judgment starts "here"? Do you forget "our" judgement will be harsher? I am a friend BECAUSE I tell the truth, not because I want you to feel good.

^^ The reply you seek is actually simple. Jesus Christ came to fulfill the law. A psalm (number 22) is what He was reading. If you read that psalm, I think it likely you'd be suprised at the parallelness of the psalm and the experience of Jesus on the cross. It discusses the Father turning His back on the Son because of the weight of sin and then in detail, shows the prophecy being fulfilled

[1] scorned by men and despised by the people
[2] hurling insults at Him - if you can, come down etc
[3] they have pierced my hands and feet
[4] they divide my garments
[5] this is the suffering of the "afflicted" one i.e. He that carries the affliction of all
[6] Posterity will be told about Him as indeed it is today and He will be celebrated forever

Many un-believers and indeed many ignorant Christians have made a lot of noise about the cry on the cross because they have no understanding of the matter.

Truth is that Jesus was acting out a script which He was fully aware of. Whist that didn't stop or reduce the pain of beating, humiliation, cruxificion, stabbing on the Cross etc, HE STILL RETAINED ENOUGH PRESENCE OF MIND THROUGH ALL THE PAIN in the body, to recite the exact prophecy made over a thousand years earlier that He was going through right there on the cross. And He went through with it all the way to the end of it. Note that the death (final event of the experience) was His Victory and is the reason why He is celebrated today.

Seeing as you have now gotten your "response that have sense" as you requested, I hope you will drop your aggression. I thought it was another "my religion is better than yours issue". You've said no and thus I here apologise for thinking you to be another of those morons that come looking for a fight all the time when they can't handle punches. Again, apologies!

What manner of human believes these kind of people? Where's the capability to reason, to understand, to be "human"?

And God and Angels are watching this? makes me kind of ashamed.

@OP:

What puzzles me here is the bait thrown knowing people will pick it up and sling back insults at your Mohammed. Sadly enough (for you), most Christians can live with Jesus being insulted and their belief system being criticised. Even worse (again for you) is that you on the other hand, cannot bear for your prophet or allah to be maligned.

Why start something that can only end in pain for you? Call Jesus a gay if you want - any real Christian will laugh at you knowing the truth. Say Jesus cried on the cross - fine, real men cry! However, if someone calls Mohammed any name now in retaliation, you will foam in the mouth, start to sweat and hyperventilate - why do you like punishment? OR are you trying to start a war so you too can have justification to blow yourself up in the delusion that virgins await you someplace? OR is there a need to feel a martyr in you? If so, why not just take a pot of boiling water and soak your eggs in it?

Its like you are always looking for warfare yet you'll have us believe your belief system is "peace"! Re-examine yourself - this forum ought be for mature conversations designed for learning rather than nonsense ESPECIALLY when you know you're not good at dishing it and also are deficient in taking it.

^^

@paris10:

Bro, take "tithes" away from your current audience and they have nothing. That opportunity to say "I love God so much I am giving Him something" is one they cannot afford to miss seeing as they live empty lives. That is why they'll show "love" by killing you over tithes.

To these, "Loving" God means "I paid a tithe and am expecting refund". As it was then, so it is now - Pharisees make the loudest noise telling Christ and followers that "the law says so & so"

When I get angry with you, I'm in the flesh;
when you get angry with me, it's righteous indignation.
If I don't get angry with you, it's because I don't care;
if you don't get angry with me, it's because you understand.

If I rebuke you, I'm judging;
if you rebuke me, you're reproving the works of darkness.
If I don't rebuke you, it is the favor of God on you preventing me;
If you don't rebuke me, my sin has not yet come to the full.

When I'm grieved by what you do to me, it's self-pity;
when you're grieved by what I do to you, it's godly sorrow.
When I'm not grieved by what you do to me, it's because I'm hard as nails;
when you're not grieved by what I do to you, it's the fruit of longsuffering.

If I won't listen to you, I'm stubborn and proud;
if you won't listen to me, your senses are exercised to discern between good and evil.
If I listen to you, I'm a man-pleaser;
if you listen to me, you're swift to hear and slow to speak.

If I criticize anyone, I am judging after the outward appearance;
if you do, faithful are the wounds of a friend.
If I don't criticize anyone, I'm wishy-washy;
if you don't, you're meek, lowly and Christ-like.
If I criticize, I'm a fault-finding generation;
if you criticize, it's constructive and you tell it like it is.

If I let out a curse, I'm a foul-mouthed hypocrite;
if you do it, you're only being real.
If I don't curse, I'm not being real;
if you don't, you're keeping your body under.

When I make a mistake, I'm wrong and better confess it;
when you make a mistake, nobody's perfect.
When I don’t make a mistake, it’s on account of my legalistic anal retentiveness;
When you don’t make a mistake, it's the leading of the Spirit.

So tell me Tonye-T/Image123/Fyneguy, who are you fooling? God, Me or YOURSELVES?

^^

Abuzola, Olabowale, Vedaxcool, all muslims must be ecstatic and thanking Mo for this dude. Image123 is one amazingly redundant character who has done so much for Islam just by not being a muslim. Haunting the walls of the religious forum of NL 24/7 only shows your life is a pitiful matter and the only presence you have is behind a keyboard.

Just imagine a scenario where everyone is praying that people accept Christ and here we have this one dude that if we knew, we'd have omitted. How more unique could a man be?

@Akobaje:

Nice words there and they bring me back to the regretable footing on which we started out over which I'd like to say something. I personally believe all men have choices and members of any club, sect, fraternity etc have right to exercise that choice.

In the case of FreeMasons, I believe same is true and hold no brief either for them or against them - I'm not a member, know next to naught of them and thus cannot judge. The Chris Oyaks membership thing I commented on was not based on judgment of either right or wrong - ness of Masonry but of Paul's words in the Bible vis - "All is legal but all is not expedient" and "I ought not be a stumbling block to another". Oyaks claims a commission which will suffer from disclosure of membership in any group(s) outside of christianity. Masonry is not a part of the Church and thus, his membershio would as a matter of fact, be judged wrong (BECAUSE OF HIS VOCATION).

I apologise for rising to the bait.

^^ Or better still, since you, Tudor, are here with quite a number of people on NL, should we then automatically say you have the same intellect?

Sad that such is found in Church BUT Pastor Adeboye is not responsible for every thing that happens there. I daresay he likely doesn't know most of the pastors at RCCG.