₦airaland Forum

gregyboy:
Yoruba were never united under any ooni shit


Oduduwa was an idol that never existed


Samuel johson brought the idea of yorubas coming from Oduduwa it was never so in history
Many times in history ife waa ransacked by war

Ogun lo ma e ti ran ti ran eyi ti mo so egba orun ti gba

lawani:
Ooni's superiority is spiritual not physical. All obas have their people and domain where they are superior exclusively. If you want to count people then oyo is superior and not Ife. As a monarch, the ooni oversees Ife alone and that is not even up to Ijesa where the owa obokun is supreme.

yes you are right but Oni is more powerful than Alafin alafin power was through military strength that diminishes with time .

TAO11:
Always have the following at the back of your mind whenever your defence mechanism kicks in:

(1) Your earlier admission of incompetence (which is perfectly fine).

(2) Your earlier promise to alway align yourself with scientific conclusions, while leaving the experts to do their job which you admittedly know nothing about.

Havings said that, I'm giving you the benefit of doubt that you're been genuine. So, I'd ask that you clarify what specifically your comment here relates to:

(a) You need more light to grasp the discourse of my comment there, or (b) You already fully understand the points I made, but you just don't agree.

If (b) is thw case, then enumarete neatly and briefly, my specific points which you disagree with, and state the reasons why you disagree with each enumerated point.

Please try to make this as orderly as you possibly can.



Yes, you're correct. And that's precisely why I continue to read.

Also, that's precisely why "my" conclusions here have been those of scholars, rather than mine.

What about you?

always use your rational mind while reading ....are you yoruba ? i mean real yoruba person not indomie yoruba person ooo that have been genetically modified by white man's vaccine

TAO11:
(1) Can you please name me one Yoruba ìṣẹ̀ṣe which uniquely maps Yorubas one-to-one with Hebrews? Just one!

While you search almost endlessly for such ìṣẹ̀ṣe (and the so-called "expert" from whom you got the information), consider my second question below:

(2) Can you please name me one ancient Yoruba traditional account which indicates that the Yorubas are aboriginals (rather than some foreign immigrants) to roughly the same area of our present region?

Notice how easy it was for you to quickly come up with answers to the second question.

Wake up, bro, and be liberated. Yes, you can!

you know nothing

TAO11:
Lol!

Nobody said "Niger-Benue confluence" introduced the "concept of monarchy", in case that was what your got.

Read, my brother, and become liberated.

Liberate me please
Rather, it is understood to mean that a group of Kingdom-founding Ile-Ife prince and his followers have common upon an aboriginal Yoruba subgroup (who also like the Ifes originally emerged from some region around Niger-Benue confluence) in order to introduce the concept of monarchy, thus founding a Kingdom in their midst.. Where in Niger benue confluence . i bet the ile-ife prince met some people in the bush and rule of over them..laughing. Aba lo ma di ilu.. ile-ife land of expansion as population of ile-ife is expanding new settlement were springing up don't bring some Niger benue confluence ..Niger benue confluence people are still there , are they related to Yoruba

I hope I have clarified how the migration from Ile-Ife is understood in academia, as well as what the originof the Yorubas is both from an oral-traditional Yoruba perspective and from an academic and scientific perspective. you haven't clarified nothing

TAO11:
(1) I am not trying to unravel what is already out there. That would be pointless.

As it stands today, I am not aware of any scientific conclusion on the origin of the Yorubas which disagrees with the fact that the Yorubas as a distinct ethnic and linguistic group of people first emerged some 6,000 years ago from a region roughly around the Niger-Benue confluence from where they continued to slowly drift southwards and westwards over thousands of years.

As I have shown in a comment above, this scientufic conclusion is in reasonable agreement with the historical gist inherent in the Yorubas' account of their own origin.

(2) The scientific point about this present day Ile-Ife (which is even agreed in the corpus of odu-Ifa to be a latter-day Ife) is not about it been the location from where "Yorubas" fist emerged as a distinct ethnic and linguistic group of people.

No, the point about this location is that it is the Yoruba settlement which first evolved a very high level of economic, political, religious, and social complexity.

Ile-Ife thus grew to emerge as a power in the West Africa forest, and from there Kingdom-founding migrations began to other parts of Yorubaland (and beyond).

The idea was to bring illumination and civilization (e.g. the concept of kingship institution, sculptural art tradition, etc.) to other Yoruba (and non-Yoruba) subgroups inhabiting other parts of the region.

So, the widespread statement among different Yoruba Kingdoms along the lines: "we're from Ile-Ife", is not understood in academia to mean that such region was necessarily desolate prior to the Kingdom-founding migration from Ife.

Rather, it is understood to mean that a group of Kingdom-founding Ile-Ife prince and his followers have common upon an aboriginal Yoruba subgroup (who also like the Ifes originally emerged from some region around Niger-Benue confluence) in order to introduce the concept of monarchy, thus founding a Kingdom in their midst.

I hope I have clarified how the migration from Ile-Ife is understood in academia, as well as what the originof the Yorubas is both from an oral-traditional Yoruba perspective and from an academic and scientific perspective.

Niger benue confluence ..lol introduce concept of monarchy.. Who are the people in Niger benue

people referred to as Yoruba might be aboriginal people of ife-ile the epicenter of creation of modern human before the arrival of bantus from south Africa forest or Yoruba are product of Sudan /Egypt migration towards due to desertification or war. There is no record of us at any point in history we were naked people even our deities are clothed trying merge us with cannibals and naked people is what is giving me concern.. The closest people to yorubas are the nupes ,igala bariba all claim Egypt migration .. even far away mande .soninke and bambaras ,Dogon Senegal claim Egypt

TAO11:
(1) See Encyclopaedia Britannica at the link below to read up on the technical difference (if any at all) between the two:

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Hebrew

One is simply a descendant of the other. No more, no less!

But guess what! The point I made in that comment you're replying here is not uniquely directed at Hebrew/Jew -- notice that my precise words there said "Arabo or Jew".

In other words, the point there is about any Middle Eastern in general.

(2) If you noticed, my point about the oriki is actually a question asked.

Don't you think then that what I would appreciate is an answer to my question, and not a question to my question?

But to answer you, consider the attached image below:

Take this image to any Yoruba village you can reach, and interview the locals as much as you can -- asking them if this is an okunrin dudu or okunrin pupa.

Yes, you can already imagine the extremely consistent replies you will get.

And this is because, even those who are not in any way remotely close to this man in lightness are regarded by our people as eyan pupa.

The Yorubas can not possibly -- by any stretch of the imagination -- describe a Middle-Eastern's grand-son as "okunrin dudu".

And this point here is not even my central argument on this thread.

hey!! who is the white beast ...

OmoOlofin:
I know it may appear weird that I keep replying you. But trust me that it is in good faith.

(1) Your "argument" so far in relation to your first point here is as follows:

(a) I, Obalufon, am not an expert on this subject, so I will be taking my views from the contamporary unanimous conclusions of experts.

(b) But if these experts are some Europeans whose conclusions doesn't align with what I wish for, then I will blatantly ignore their conclusions.

(c) I will also blatantly ignore the conclusions of any indigenous scholars whose conclusions wouldn't align with what I wish for.

In sum, it then appears clearly that what you seek is a conclusion which aligns with your wish, regardless of who reached this conclusion, and regardless of how it was reached.

Not only is your attitude here expressive of the logical fallacy well known as the confirmation bias fallacy, it can also be shown that same attitude is expressive of the double standard fallacy.

For example, I am quite certain you will have no confidence-issues allowing a so-called "westernized" Nigerian surgeon perform some procedure on you or a family member (if you or them needed one). In fact, I am quite certain you wouldn't still mind if the surpgeon was a European.

Despite the fact of your committing these logical fallacies, can you please point out which of the studies on linguistic classification schemes, by any of the indigenous scholars I listed, had to be taken to Europe for certification?

(2) What do you mean by "ethno-linguistic agenda"? Please enlighten me.

However, my eventual refutation of the Wadai hypothesis is not what should bother you much, rather what you should focus on is how the conclusion was reached.

In case you missed it earlier, the hypothesis of Ijebu migration from some "East" was first published in 1956.

This hypothesis was later given much vigour, popularity, and colour by the reigning King himself with his "Wadai" pronouncement.

Now tell me why any rational mind will abandon the extant traditional accounts of IjebuOde -- which clearly claims Ife as its roots -- for an alternative modern account which surfaced only a couple of years ago, and with absolutely no basis in any traditional account of IjebuOde.

It doesn't take a genius to see what's going on here to be an obvious attempt by some to fit in IjebuOde (a Yoruba city) into the broader Johnsonian hypothesis which asserts that the Yorubas have their roots in the Middle East.

But have you taken your time to pause and ask yourself where S. Johnson (the first person to initiate this foreign origin hypothesis) got this particular account from?

In case you haven't asked yourself before, he did not get it from Ife, neither did he get it from Oyo, nor did he get it from any Yoruba subgroup.

"Fom where then" you may ask. He, in fact, got this particular account (about Yoruba origin) from a Fulani man -- Yes, a Fulani man (through the records of Captain Clapperton) -- Sultan Bello who was the successor to Sultan Uthman Dan-Fodio.

[Refer to my exceptionally long comment somewhere above for details on this].

In fact, the extant traditional account which says that IjebuOde was founded by three waves of migration from Ife was published into writting, by the indigenous historian Epega, two years before S. Johnson's work was published.

In other words, you can be sure that the publication of the traditional account on Ife origin of IjebuOde is not some kind of reaction to Johnson's general hypothesis.

As it is to be expected then, the traditional accounts of all other Ijebu Kingdoms -- such as Iwopin, Ijebu-Ife, Ode-Omi, Remo, Ikorodu, etc. -- also corroborate the extant traditional accounts of IjebuOde by admitting that the Ijebus have their roots/origin in Ife.

Let's be guided!

(3) Talking about Leo Frobenius, you obviously have a misconstrued understanding of what Frobenius' conclusion was, as well as the factors that led to his conclusion. Let's take a look:

* Frobenius admitted quite clearly that the Ife artworks were made right in this same environment. In other words, he admitted that they weren't simply brought down here from elsewhere.

* However, the aesthetic appeal and technical sophistication of the Ife artworks struck Frobenius so hard that he couldn't help but voice his stereotypes against those he called "the negro". He remarked:

"Eloquent of a symmetry, a vitality, a delicacy of form directly reminiscent of Ancient Greece, and a proof that, once upon a time, a race far superior in strain to the negro, had settled here."

L. Frobenius, The Voice of Africa, 1913, pp.88-89.

In other words, Frobenius is on one hand admitting that these works were created right in this environment, but on the other hand he is expressing the European prejudices of the time -- that negros are supposed to be dummies.

There is no other known reason (at least from his publication) for this conlusion other than the fact that he personally couldn't believe how negros could possibly rival Europeans.

But how true is his hasty and laughable conclusion that some "aboriginal whites" had first settled here before the so-called "negroes" later came in? -- A kind of opposite to what you guys are rooting for. Lol.

Archaeological finds from around Yorubaland have come to show that "negroids" have occupied Yorubaland even in as early as c.8000 BC.

Moreover, the Ife artworks themselves (which are clearly aimed at naturalism) do not show the slightest doubt that the human sculptures represent sub-Saharan Africans, considering their obvious facial phenotypes.

In fact, the facial parallel striations on many of the human sculptures are clearly reminiscent of the same facial striation of certain group somewhere in today's Nothern Nigeria among whom the practice have survived till modern times.

[Refer to ... for details on this.]

In sum, the Ife artworks were made on the soil of sub-Saharan Africa (even according to your authority here: L. Frobenius), and by sub-Saharan Africans (considering the foregoing argument).

[If interested, refer to this link ... for a more detailed comment where I laid out the argument showing that the Ife artworks were made in Ife by the Ifes].


(3) Lol. These productions and feats are not unique to the Yorubas (among Africans) or the Middle Easterns (among non-Africans).

You've only chosen to ignore other ancient societies (apart from Yorubaland and Middle East) where same feats flowered.

Will your conclusion remain the same even if you find, for example, that some other ancient West African societies also mined corals?

Will your conclusion remain the same even if you find, for example, that the Mali Empire was the primary source of raw copper importation into Ife in the 1300s?

yoruba is different brother don't merge us with bunch of animals that our forefather detest with passion if you do so our ancestors would be raining curses in their graves . middle east or no middle east don't lump us up with bunch of half monkey half human

Eledumare you sabi book ooo!!.. Who are the expert on Yoruba history ? the westernize historian we have in Nigeria that have to take their thesis to Europe to be certified. you openly refute ijebu wadai claim to suit your larger enthno-linguistic agenda laugh .. Yorubas are different people my brother . you think frobenius was crazy when he said is impossible for the indigenous people to have created this type of civilization is because the environment we are doesn't support or comprehend what he was seeing imagine people having knowledge about sea at its under water treasures ...class beads making, melting and blowing of glass powder into intricate ornaments the same technique used in the mideast ,.. making of 99percent copper and high knowledge on metallurgy ..knowledge of trinity

OmoOlofin:
In that case, you ought to be willing to accept the conclusions of historians.

And the conclusion reached by historians (from linguistic and other evidence) is that the ethno-linguistic group of people known today by the name Yoruba first appeared in the region known today by the name Nigeria.

Will you then be willing to submit to the conclusions of historical scholarship even if you dislike what the conclusion says??

European grouping who group you people ,your slave masters , they group you like grouping animals ,you are trying to group us with animals i won't accept it , till 1980s they are still discovering naked people in north of Nigeria covering their butt with leaves 1940 to 50s 95 percent of ibos are naked we called them "oni hoho "naked people those are the people you want to group us with ...Are you verse in yoruba science ?

OmoOlofin:
May God forgive Afican/Yoruba historical scholarship for disagreeing with the wish of a Nairalander and "scholar", namely -- Obalufon.

prove me wrong ..i'm not historian

OmoOlofin:
May God forgive Afican/Yoruba historical scholarship for disagreeing with the wish of a Nairalander and "scholar", namely -- Obalufon.

we need time machine

Yoruba civilization didn't emerge here ..Our knowledge and civilization is beyond what our environment can support ,our verse knowledge of things that can not be sourced in our present locate is astounding ,whether we were influenced or we migrated here from somewhere....

read book by anta diop on connection of yoruba and Egypt..i would rather go with african scholars than white people or stick to my Yoruba history ife as the centre of creation

kayfra:
You are still on this scam or we should look else where for what actually afflicts you? Any doctor in the house? This simply can't be normal

open up your brain

German racist and supremacist group your people and you are boldly talking about it ...I'm yoruba man nothing like kwa group ,,,To hell with Diedrich Westermann in his grave with his Kwa group

*

macof:
1 & 3
lmao
/
this guy can lie so shamelessly. so desperate for your hebrew masters sha

so you can claim Prof. Akintoye never claims African origin of Yoruba?
(see screenshot below from Chapter 1, pages 8- 9 of Prof. Akintoye's "A history of the Yoruba people" IF you didn't know, now you know , you can't lie here

2.
lmao you are just a clown. So I have given diverse opinions on who the Ooni is...really ? Where, when? who did i say the ooni was? And i talked about Pharaohs origin of Yoruba Oonis and East Africa origin of Yoruba people ...lmao
Abeg o, don't carrry your nonsense imagination to claim i said what i did not say.
Ask your silent confused one time supporter Rossikk about Ooni being of Pharaonic origin

KWA kwa people lumpup group of people old school anthropology ....we need to write our own history

gregyboy:
You better remove oba from your name copy copy people


We go soon sue una for using the title oba

kill yourself you are not even from royal house they dont even know you exist ..i don't even know where your hatred for yoruba came from .. i know you are ibo man or you are half ibo ...

only record i know is ekiti and oyo skirmishes . Oyo could not extend its authority on ekiti due to their rocky terrain nothing to do with Benin

davidnazee:
No record or you don’t believe they went to war??
There are records of the wars between Benin and Oyo. It is also on record that Oyo expansion eastward was cut by the powerful Benin expansion and conquest westward deep into Yorubalands.

give time i want to know

gregyboy:
Mad man, like the palace doesnt know we have no relationship with ife.... Oba eweka said he came from ife just to include edo under a Yoruba political homogeneity little did he know it wouldn't favour him



Benin had clashed with oyo invading force over yoruba territories under benin empire and tge benins succeedly in wadding them off....

We also supplied guns to yorubas to use to kill themselves in the past.....

you are nothing you are not of royal blood nack your head for ground ..Benin is different go near the oba palace secretly curse oni of ife all the deities in the oba palace will follow you home to destroy you and your generation till eternity fool

gregyboy:
Mad man, like the palace doesnt know we have no relationship with ife.... Oba eweka said he came from ife just to include edo under a Yoruba political homogeneity little did he know it wouldn't favour him



Benin had clashed with oyo invading force over yoruba territories under benin empire and tge benins succeedly in wadding them off....

We also supplied guns to yorubas to use to kill themselves in the past.....

useless thug no record of OYO going to war with benin it can't be they are brothers

Mr monkey OYO and BENIN never go to war ..No superiority contest .. go to oba Benin palace abuse oni of ife and OYO oba .say derogatory things you normally say online about them .i bet they will behead you instantly ..likewise in yoruba land Oba benin stool is highly revered

gregyboy:
I came across a lady then while in the uni
She was an igbo lady brought up in benin she argued the benin history with me that benins came from yorubas i was so pained in my bones hearing it from an igbo lady who even lived and was brought up inbenin i gave her ekaladeran book to read after reading she was like wow, she has all aling been fooledshe onced spent most of her years in lagos were she learnt all this before her parents came to Benin

Only if i could go back in time and collect that book and rather explain to her all of it was a myth


I have spent some good number of my life arguing this Oduduwa myth and i have not one day questioned it untill this year.......
As times goes by i will fully understand entailing the myth and there will be a need to write on them

we are not talking about benin here so shut the Bleep up
!

[quote author=gregyboy post=89326517][/quote]what is your stress with yoruba issue. Mr man. you seems to be obsessed with yoruba or just sheer hatred or jealousy only a bastard yoruba will not see intention of your post

what is your stress with yoruba issue. Mr man. you seems to be obsessed with yoruba or just sheer hatred or jealousy only a bastard yoruba will not see intention of your...

macof:
Lmao
A religion is not an ethnic group. Those are converted into Judaism making up nonsense history like converted Muslims did 200 years ago

what year was the first mosque built in yoruba land.

macof:
Will you keep your dumb self shut. What Yoruba indigenous knowledge do you learn Yoruba history from?
When indigenous records say Ife is the origin of yoruba, you say its a lie.
When indigenous records say oduduwa is from Òkè-Ọ̀rà you lot say no he's from the middle East

What Yoruba tradition told you that Yoruba are Hebrews? Where is the record of yoruba migration from the middle East? Where are the mentions of the places settled between the middle East and west africa?
Why did yoruba lose the culture and traditions of the middle East but clearly posses a west African culture and tradition?

Your source is the bible, you read the bible looking for Yoruba in a book that the Yoruba don't exist in.
You have no traditional source so keep quiet

Oke-Ora..?

S400:
every time you're cornered with source and evidence you jump and invent new thing . there is a lot of serious DNA studies of maghreb populations that was done and they are easy to find on google , i dont have have the patience to continue playing around , There are none so blind as those who will not see .

so last post for me in this thread , for this yoruba origin thread here a source from a serious DNA study from national geographic Geno 2.0 project , : https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations-next-gen/


you can see that for youruba, they have only 3% DNA from north african berbers but are mostly western central africans 89%

have a nice day.

Rest to your imagination i don't expect less from you You are North African.

lol .. you will a great scholar only if you will purge your mind off the white man's ideology or mind programming

RamessesIV:
What it white that wrote the history i don't get ��������,so any history that doesn't favor you don't like ���,when Arabs wrote records of mansa musa it wasn't a lie,when they wrote records of Ghana it wasn't a lie ����,Arab writings of north africa shows they didn't meet black people there,am sorry I deal with credible evidence,I have research all these claims for years

lol you are tough nail Mr man italian ,syrian jordan greece before Arabs ,,. the people there now are not all white the extremely white are the most mixed arabs