₦airaland Forum

TenQ:
Alright,
I challenge you to translate this Arabic into English language to prove who is write or wrong.

I am waiting!


ٱتَّخَذُوا۟ زُعَمَاءَهُمْ وَمُعَلِّمِيهِمْ أَرْبَـٰبًا مِّن دُونِ ٱلْعَدَنِ وَٱلْمَلِكُ بْنُ فَاطِمَةَ

You ignored my more serious question to further display ignorance?

The sentence is grammatically deficient, semantically ambiguous, and missing the essential concluding subject or object required to construct a coherent statement in the style of the Quran.

So there you have another failure of yours to write anything like the Quran

TenQ:
The difference between us is that you keep repeating things you have heard from your scholars old and new.
BUT
I show you what Allah and your prophet said with their IMPLICATIONS which you don't like because they are the exact Truths Allah doesn't want you to know lest you leave Islam.

Can you see your lie? Kindly explain with irrefutable proof why you reject this as a saying of the prophet.

O people, I had permitted you to contract temporary marriage with women, but Allah has forbidden it (now) until the Day of Resurrection. So he who has any (woman with this type of marriage contract), he should let her off, and do not take back anything you have given to them (as dower)

TenQ:
Another lie you willingly chose to believe. Obviously, Quran 9:31 is a mistake.

Despite your customary diversion from thread subjects this might be the only thing mistakenly associated to the thread.

The conjunction "wa" (وَ) in this context serves as a coordinating particle, linking Jesus to the enumeration of figures erroneously venerated, such as rabbis, monks, and Jesus himself.

Notably, the term "Al-Masih" appears in the accusative case (mansub) الْمَسِيحَ rather than the nominative (marfu), indicating its role as part of the object rather than the subject. This grammatical nuance underscores that Jesus is counted among those mistakenly elevated as lords, not omitted.

Arabic syntax leaves no ambiguity. Jesus is grouped with the falsely worshipped, not aligned with Allah as a rightful recipient of devotion. The conjunction "wa" (and) associates Jesus with the misattributed lords, not with Allah as a co-equal deity.

If you have no superior Arabic explanation against the above stop displaying illogical arrogance. Accept the error in over veneration of Jesus and the Holy spirit along side the one and only ultimate God

TenQ:
The hadith actually show that you Muslims have a wrong descriptive concept of Allah!
Why?
Was it Allah who came in the first instance or not?
If it is Allah, then, you don't know Allah!
Do you know how the shin of Iblis look like?
What is special with the shin of Allah?

How can you be sure it was NOT Iblis who forgot his supposed shape and first came to you in another form till you Muslims rejected him: such that he corrected himself to show you what you will believe?


It is not a test o!

If God is indeed the Almighty, it is IMPOSSIBLE to not know that you are in his presence!
Do you agree with this?

You can wish that Allah is not limited by space nor does he enter into his creation BUT your hadiths say otherwise. If Allah's looks is a perception, then he is not real: and whatever you are seeing as Allah is an Illusion!


Of course you rate the words of your scholars higher than that or Allah or even Mohammed.
Evidence abound!

Is Allah perfect and Eloquent in speech or not?
Is Mohammed deficient in placement of words or not?

If they are not, why then don't you follow EXACTLY what they have said rather than follow the CONSENSUS of ordinary fallible men who call themselves scholars.

Do you disagree with the fact that a consensus opinion does not connote the TRUTH!?



Allah is greater than Mohammed, isn't he?
Allah gave the command of Mutah in his Eternal Quran!
Then only Allah can abrogate the Mutah in his Quran!

We know that it was Umar that eventually stopped the Mutah because Mohammed Allowed it , then cancelled it, then allowed it then cancelled it and it was in effect among you muslims until Umar cancelled it


Of course there is no bridge of Sirat: it is a fabrication!
You will all enter hell fire for some time!

My concern is WHY?
Why must anyone first enter the fire before he can finally be released?

This explains why Christians and Jews would be your ransom from the Fire!
Does this make logical sense to you that Christians and Jews would be your ransom from the fire!?
It seems someone doesn't want you to know the Truth!


Every evidence show that the Quran was not perfectly preserved. Seven Ahruf, 10 Qiraat and we cannot lay our hands on just one perfect one. The Goat eat some pages but it's still perfectly preserved!?


Another lie you willingly chose to believe. Obviously, Quran 9:31 is a mistake.
If your Quran is perfect in style, structure and literary depth, tell me; Who spoke the Al-Fathia?
Was it Mohammed, Allah or Jibril?


i. The author of the Quran seem not to know the difference between the Roman Empire AND the Byzantine Empire
ii. The word سِنِينَ ۗ refers to between 3 to 9 years (a short time indeed)
iii. Surah Ar-rum was written in Mecca (the 30th Surah of the Quran). If you know a little history, 86 chapters were written in this Mecca and the rest in Medina. Mohammed lived the last ten years of his life in Medina.
iv. So, tell me how (even if we assume that the Byzantines were the Romans) that سِنِينَ ۗ 3 to 9 years was correct.

Your scholars can tell lies for the Universe.


Like having unnatural relationship with prepubescent girls!?
And Doing Mutah!?


Bombing Churches and Mosques in the name of Allah
Suicide Bombing in the name of Allah
Taqqiyya in the name of Allah
Calling fellow human being as the worst of Creatures
Collecting Jizya from Christians and Jews when you have political power


The Israelites had evidences and proofs of God only that they wanted a God who will give them freedom to do as they wish like the gods of the other nations. Unfortunately, YHWH is not like that!

The Sea parted for them and they walked on dry land
God fed them for 40 years in the desert
They saw miracles from several prophets God sent to them

The Israelites can NEVER ever say their God is Hearsay or Theoretical.

You have only given excuses sir,
What is the EVIDENCE for Allah?
Talk is cheap!

It is worth noting that Aisha (RA) was married at a young age, a practice that was, in fact, commonplace across the globe, including in Europe, during that era. However, it's crucial to understand that Islam mandates both physical puberty and mental maturity before the consummation of marriage, as stipulated by the condition of maturity in the Qur'an 4:6.

Furthermore, Islam categorically prohibits harm, abuse, and coercion, and child marriage is not only illegal but also not practiced in the majority of Muslim countries today.

On a separate note, the concept of suicide bombing or terrorism is a gross distortion of Islamic teachings, as suicide is explicitly forbidden in the Qur'an 4:29, which states, 'Do not kill yourselves. Indeed, Allah is Merciful to you.' Additionally, killing innocent people is considered a major sin, as emphasized in the Qur'an 5:32, 'Whoever kills a soul… it is as if he had slain mankind entirely.'

It's also important to address the misconception surrounding Taqiyya, which, in Shi'a jurisprudence, refers to concealing one's faith under duress, and not as a license to lie.

In Sunni Islam, lying is only permissible in situations where it can save a life, and not for the purpose of deception or manipulation.

The Jizya Tax, often misunderstood, was actually a small tax imposed on non-Muslim citizens under Islamic rule in exchange for military protection and exemption from war duty, and it's worth noting that Muslims themselves paid Zakat, which was often more. When it comes to evidence for the existence of Allah, Islam presents multiple layers of evidence, including rational arguments such as the fine-tuning of the universe, the origin of life, and the universal moral instinct, all of which point to the existence of a Wise Creator.

The Qur'an itself appeals to reason, as seen in the verse, 'Were they created by nothing, or were they themselves the creators?' (Qur'an 52:35). Moreover, the revelation of the Qur'an, with its unmatched linguistic style, preservation, fulfilled prophecies, and influence, remains unparalleled, and the challenge still stands, 'If you are in doubt… produce a surah like it' (Qur'an 2:23), a challenge that has yet to be met.


The realm of spiritual experience is one where millions of individuals have reported finding peace, transformation, and guidance through the practices of prayer and engagement with the Qur'an.

It's worth noting that not all forms of evidence are tangible or measurable by conventional means, much like the intangible yet undeniable realities of love, consciousness, and morality yet these are experiences that, while not necessarily quantifiable through laboratory tools, are nonetheless profoundly real.

Throughout history, various groups, including the Israelites and Muslims, have witnessed miracles, yet the observation of such phenomena has never been a guarantee of faith. As the Qur'an so eloquently states, even if one were to be granted a celestial gateway and ascend through it, they might still remain skeptical, saying, 'Our eyes have been dazzled...' (Qur'an 15:14-15).


Islam, rather than demanding blind faith, encourages a path of reason, reflection, and subsequent submission of the heart. For those who genuinely seek truth, unencumbered by the desire for argumentation, the promise is that Allah will illuminate their heart, as expressed in the Hadith - Musnad Ahmad, 'Whoever seeks the truth sincerely, Allah will guide them.'
Lastly, the spiritual experience of millions of people, who have found peace and transformation through their faith, serves as a testament to the power and truth of Islam.

TenQ:
The hadith actually show that you Muslims have a wrong descriptive concept of Allah!
Why?
Was it Allah who came in the first instance or not?
If it is Allah, then, you don't know Allah!
Do you know how the shin of Iblis look like?
What is special with the shin of Allah?

How can you be sure it was NOT Iblis who forgot his supposed shape and first came to you in another form till you Muslims rejected him: such that he corrected himself to show you what you will believe?


It is not a test o!

If God is indeed the Almighty, it is IMPOSSIBLE to not know that you are in his presence!
Do you agree with this?

You can wish that Allah is not limited by space nor does he enter into his creation BUT your hadiths say otherwise. If Allah's looks is a perception, then he is not real: and whatever you are seeing as Allah is an Illusion!


Of course you rate the words of your scholars higher than that or Allah or even Mohammed.
Evidence abound!

Is Allah perfect and Eloquent in speech or not?
Is Mohammed deficient in placement of words or not?

If they are not, why then don't you follow EXACTLY what they have said rather than follow the CONSENSUS of ordinary fallible men who call themselves scholars.

Do you disagree with the fact that a consensus opinion does not connote the TRUTH!?



Allah is greater than Mohammed, isn't he?
Allah gave the command of Mutah in his Eternal Quran!
Then only Allah can abrogate the Mutah in his Quran!

We know that it was Umar that eventually stopped the Mutah because Mohammed Allowed it , then cancelled it, then allowed it then cancelled it and it was in effect among you muslims until Umar cancelled it


Of course there is no bridge of Sirat: it is a fabrication!
You will all enter hell fire for some time!

My concern is WHY?
Why must anyone first enter the fire before he can finally be released?

This explains why Christians and Jews would be your ransom from the Fire!
Does this make logical sense to you that Christians and Jews would be your ransom from the fire!?
It seems someone doesn't want you to know the Truth!


Every evidence show that the Quran was not perfectly preserved. Seven Ahruf, 10 Qiraat and we cannot lay our hands on just one perfect one. The Goat eat some pages but it's still perfectly preserved!?


Another lie you willingly chose to believe. Obviously, Quran 9:31 is a mistake.
If your Quran is perfect in style, structure and literary depth, tell me; Who spoke the Al-Fathia?
Was it Mohammed, Allah or Jibril?


i. The author of the Quran seem not to know the difference between the Roman Empire AND the Byzantine Empire
ii. The word سِنِينَ ۗ refers to between 3 to 9 years (a short time indeed)
iii. Surah Ar-rum was written in Mecca (the 30th Surah of the Quran). If you know a little history, 86 chapters were written in this Mecca and the rest in Medina. Mohammed lived the last ten years of his life in Medina.
iv. So, tell me how (even if we assume that the Byzantines were the Romans) that سِنِينَ ۗ 3 to 9 years was correct.

Your scholars can tell lies for the Universe.


Like having unnatural relationship with prepubescent girls!?
And Doing Mutah!?


Bombing Churches and Mosques in the name of Allah
Suicide Bombing in the name of Allah
Taqqiyya in the name of Allah
Calling fellow human being as the worst of Creatures
Collecting Jizya from Christians and Jews when you have political power


The Israelites had evidences and proofs of God only that they wanted a God who will give them freedom to do as they wish like the gods of the other nations. Unfortunately, YHWH is not like that!

The Sea parted for them and they walked on dry land
God fed them for 40 years in the desert
They saw miracles from several prophets God sent to them

The Israelites can NEVER ever say their God is Hearsay or Theoretical.

You have only given excuses sir,
What is the EVIDENCE for Allah?
Talk is cheap!

As for Surah Al-Fatiha, it is essentially a divine supplication imparted to us by Allah, wherein the Qur'an encompasses not only direct speech from Allah, but also commanded speech, such as Dua, which was taught to us - for instance, when Allah says, 'Say: He is Allah, the One...' (Qur'an 112:1). Although the Prophet is reciting it, it is, in fact, Allah's Word and instruction. Similarly, Al-Fatiha is comprised of Allah's words, which were taught to us for the purpose of prayer, and there is no contradiction here; it is, indeed, Divine speech from Allah, formatted as a supplication for worshippers.

Regarding the Romans vs Byzantines and the Prediction in Surah Ar-Rum, Surah Ar-Rum (30:2-4) states that the Romans have been defeated, but they will overcome within a few years. The term 'Romans' (الْرُّوم) in Arabic refers to the Eastern Roman Empire, which is now known as the Byzantines. The Arabs of the 7th century used the term 'Rome' to refer to Byzantium, and this was also reflected in their coins and communications - this is not a historical error, but rather a linguistic convention of the time. The term 'sineen' (سِنِينَ) in Arabic is the plural form of 'sanah' (year), which is commonly interpreted to mean 3 to 9 years. The Battle of Antioch (602 CE) and the Byzantine victory at Nineveh (627 CE) occurred within 7 years, exactly within the prophesied time. This was, therefore, an accurate prophecy, revealed in Mecca before the actual victory occurred, and it came true, as acknowledged by both Muslim and non-Muslim historians.

Furthermore, scholars have, on occasion, been known to lie or misrepresent facts, and the issue of Mut'ah (Temporary Marriage) is a case in point. It was initially permitted in early Islam during wartime hardship, just as some Jewish traditions had temporary or concubine relationships. However, the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) later forbade it permanently, as stated in authentic hadiths from Sahih Muslim (1406) and Bukhari.

Gabrielshow24:
You say he is formless but continue to represent him using forms/shapes😂. Make it make sense!

By the way, external critique has dismissed your hadiths as unreliable. If I were you, I will align with the shia view—using solely the Quran!

I wonder why you need so many scholars to explain Allah's words, words that are supposedly clear! 😂 You make him look like the worst communicator in history.

He says one thing, you guys say another.
He denotes one thing, you say he connotes another!
It's not sarcasm or censure, it's reality!

You stated that I claim He is formless yet depict Him through forms or shapes?

In Islamic theology, Allah is unequivocally beyond any physical form as we comprehend it. The Qur’an explicitly declares: "There is nothing comparable to Him, and He is the All-Hearing, the All-Seeing" (Surah Ash-Shura 42:11).

No reputable Muslim scholar asserts that Allah possesses a physical form akin to His creation. Any visual depictions of God you may encounter are not rooted in Islamic teachings but often stem from non-Islamic artistic traditions or polemical works, and they are universally rejected within mainstream Islam. The Muslim perspective unequivocally elevates Allah above any imperfections or resemblances to His creation.

Thus, the accusation is fundamentally misguided.

Whose standards are being applied here? Orientalists? Atheist academics? Contemporary skeptics?

The discipline of Hadith scholarship is arguably the most meticulous system of historical verification ever devised. It employs a rigorous methodology of isnad;chain of narration, biographical scrutiny, and contextual analysis to authenticate Prophetic traditions. Dismissing Hadith due to preconceived biases is not a critique but a rejection of the very tools that safeguard historical accuracy. An approach that borders on intellectual dishonesty.

Ironically, even within Shia Islam, Hadith are utilized, albeit through different compilations such as Al-Kafi, as opposed to Sahih al-Bukhari or Muslim.

Allah Himself acknowledges the multifaceted nature of His Book. He is the One who revealed the Book to you. Some of its verses are clear ... while others are ambiguous" (Quran 3:7).

Not every verse is immediately apparent to every reader. Some demand contextual understanding, linguistic expertise, historical insight, and jurisprudential methodology.

Scholars are not impediments; they serve as conduits between divine revelation and human comprehension.

Your stance verges perilously close to blasphemy.

Not everything is immediately apparent to every reader, and it's often necessary to delve into context, linguistic analysis, historical background, and legal methodology to gain a deeper understanding of certain verses.

Scholars, in this regard, serve as a bridge between the revelation and human comprehension, rather than obstacles to be overcome. To suggest otherwise would be, quite frankly, perilously close to blasphemy.

The issue at hand is not with Allah's communication, for He is, after all, The All-Wise and The Most Eloquent Communicator, but rather with the listener's arrogance or lack of understanding.

As the Quran so eloquently puts it, 'Do they not reflect upon the Qur’an, or are there locks upon their hearts?' (Quran 47:24).

Mockery and the use of emojis are not an effective means of disguising one's ignorance, and if a message is subtle, it doesn't necessarily mean it's unclear -rather, it requires a humble approach, unencumbered by ridicule.

It's essential to recognize that critiquing Islam is not akin to poking holes in straw men, ignoring context, and mocking things one doesn't understand. If the goal is indeed to uncover the truth, then questions should be asked sincerely, without the need for smug sarcasm.

Muslims, having studied their faith for over 1400 years, are unlikely to be swayed by such superficial criticisms, which often stem from a lack of understanding and a reliance on Twitter threads or YouTube skeptics.

Your usual criticism of Islam mixed with accusatory tone, sarcasm, and offensive content.

Allah isn't just a body or a being trapped within creation, even if He can be seen or heard.

Muslims don’t believe that Allah is merely a spirit, either. He exists beyond any physical form, spirit, or any category we can create.

Allah can show signs or forms that help us understand Him, similar to what we see in the Bible.

Hadith emphasize His transcendence rather than His physicality. While it’s said, “He is above the Throne,” it’s also clear that He isn’t limited by space.

Mut’ah was once permitted and seems to be mentioned in Qur’an 4:24.

Sunnis hold that the Prophet later prohibited it, with Umar enforcing that ban rather than introducing something new.

On the other hand, Shi’a Muslims argue that there’s no abrogation in the Qur’an, suggesting that Umar went against divine revelation.

The main difference between the two groups is about who holds the ultimate authority: Hadith/Sunnah for Sunnis or a literal interpretation of the Qur’an combined with Imamate for Shi’a

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You're right: no matter how many times something is repeated — whether by an imam, scholar, apologist, or critic — it must stand on real, revealed, and verifiable evidence. Otherwise, it's just noise.

TenQ:
1. So, as a Muslim, tell me how I can recognise Allah when I see him?
2. How come Muslims initially assumed Allah was Shaitan to the point of seeking refuge from him with Allah?
3. Was Allah the shape seen by you Muslims or Allah was inside the shape?




My problem with you Muslims is that
1. Allah or Mohammed will say something clear and direct
2. Your scholars will say different things by treating Allah and Mohammad as if they were toddlers who are imprecise with words.
AND
You Muslims will follow the consensus of your scholars! You call it EXPLANATION!

Except you show from the Qur'an when Allah abrogated the Mutah otherwise it was Mohammed who did the Abrogation. The same thing with daily prayers!


This had always being my point: that Muslims will be in the Fire of Hell temporarily.

The question is:
In the light of Eternity, how many Days or Weeks or Years or Decades or Centuries or Millennials will you spend in Hell Fire before you are eventually removed?


I asked for EVIDENCES supporting Allah!

Even though, the Qur'an has been found to contain lots of
Scientific Errors
Historical Errors
Mathematical Errors
Logical Errors
Grammatical Errors
But this is not my objective.

I asked for EVIDENCES that we can use from historical witnesses that Allah is God.

The Children of Israel are witnesses to several things YHWH have done in their lives and what they have witnessed.



Because you keep repeating what you want to believe rather than what Allah or Mohammed has spoken.
If I repeatedly told you that Donald Trump is the President of Nigeria one million times would never change the truth

How can I recognize Allah when I see Him?
So, here’s the thing: according to some authentic hadiths like the ones in Sahih al-Bukhari (7439),believers will actually recognize Allah in the Hereafter, but it won’t be about how He looks. Instead, it’s more about specific signs, you know? Things like the uncovering of the Shin or His speech and authority. It’s a recognition that Allah grants, not something we earn just by thinking about it in this world. Kind of like how Moses recognized God’s calling without actually seeing Him (Exodus 3). For Muslims, it’s really about divine revelation, not biology or physical appearances.

Why do Muslims not recognize Allah in the first shape?
You know, this is addressed in several hadiths too (like Bukhari 6573). When believers first encounter Allah in a form they don't expect, it’s not that they’re confused between Allah and Satan. It’s actually a test of sincerity and discernment. Allah says:
"Faces that Day will be radiant, looking at their Lord." (Qur’an 75:22-23)
So, Allah tests His servants by showing up in a way they don’t anticipate, and then He confirms His identity. This isn’t saying that Allah is a physical being; it’s about how His presence is shown differently for the purpose of judgment. The Prophet, peace be upon him, used this to illustrate Allah’s uniqueness and to gauge the sincerity of believers.
Was Allah the shape or was He inside it?
Now, this question sort of assumes Allah is limited by space like His creation, which Islam definitely denies. Allah isn’t confined to any form, nor does He “enter” His creation. When He appears in a certain form in the Hereafter, it’s more like a perception He chooses, rather than some kind of physical body. Really, there’s nothing like Him. (Qur’an 42:11)

Do Muslims follow scholars over Allah and Muhammad?

That’s a common misconception. Scholars aren’t infallible, and Muslims aren’t required to follow them blindly. The Prophet, peace be upon him, taught, and his companions preserved that knowledge. Scholars interpret based on the Qur’an and Sunnah.
Consensus is valued because the Prophet himself praised the majority and warned against introducing new things into the faith. True scholarship isn’t about rebelling against Allah or the Prophet; it’s about understanding and applying their teachings across generations.

Where in the Qur’an is Mutʿah abrogated?

Mutʿah, or temporary marriage, was actually abrogated during the Prophet's lifetime. Muslims acknowledge his authority based on the Qur’an:
"Whatever the Messenger gives you, take it, and whatever he forbids you, abstain from it." (Qur’an 59:7)
Plus, there were several companions—like Ali ibn Abi Talib and Ibn Umar—who narrated this abrogation, showing it was something the early Muslims were aware of.
What abrogated Mutʿah if not the Qur’an?
Well, it was the Prophet Muhammad himself who abrogated Mutʿah, and his command is considered binding under the Qur’anic mandate (59:7). There are several sahih hadith that confirm this:
Hadith Evidence:
In Sahih Muslim 1406a, he said: "O people, I had permitted you Mutʿah, but now Allah has forbidden it until the Day of Judgment," narrated by Ali ibn Abi Talib and others.
In Sahih al-Bukhari 5115, which comes from Sabra al-Juhani, it’s noted that "The Messenger of Allah permitted us to do Mutʿah during the conquest of Mecca, then he prohibited it forever."
And in Muslim 1405, it mentions that the Prophet prohibited Mutʿah at Khaybar.
Some narrations even suggest it was allowed early in Islam under specific hardships—like during war—but was eventually made permanently forbidden.
Scholarly Consensus (Ijmaʿ)
All four Sunni madhhabs; Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi’i, and Hanbali agree that Mutʿah is haram after the Prophet abrogated it.

The Twelver Shia, however, argue that it’s still allowed, claiming Umar’s ijtihad was the cause of the abrogation. But Sunni sources clearly show it was the Prophet who made that change, and Umar only enforced it during his caliphate.


Will Muslims be in Hell temporarily?

So, the Qur'an, specifically in 19:71–72, says something pretty profound: "And there is none of you except he will come to it. This is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed. Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees."

Most scholars interpret this to mean that people will pass over the Fire on the Sirat bridge rather than actually entering Hell.

Some do believe that sinful Muslims might end up in Hell for a bit, but the exact duration? Only Allah knows that.

What we do know is that those with genuine faith will eventually find salvation. It’s really about divine justice and mercy, isn’t it?

The crux of these verses? It’s all about the difference between the saved and those who are left behind.

Salvation is promised to those who have lived with taqwa, or God-consciousness, and who’ve made an effort to do good. This aligns with the broader Islamic teaching that our ultimate judgment hinges on our faith and actions.

Now, it’s worth noting that interpretations can differ quite a bit, and how these verses are understood can change depending on various theological views within Islam. But at the end of the day, the message is one of hope and mercy for those striving to live by Islamic principles.

Now, let’s talk about the evidence for Allah being God.

Islam doesn’t just lean on historical witnesses though the miracles of the Prophet play a part. Instead, the Qur'an offers both internal and external signs, like:

1. Preservation: We’re talking about a book that’s been memorized and recited the same way for over 1400 years.
2. Linguistic miracle: The style, structure, and literary depth? Unmatched.
3. Fulfilled prophecies: Like the victory of the Romans mentioned in the Qur'an (30) and the conquest of Mecca.
4. Consistency with natural law: It encourages us to observe, reflect, and really study the universe around us.
5. Spiritual transformation: The Qur'an has this incredible power to change hearts, unite tribes, and even reshape entire civilizations.
These aren’t just claims they’re experiences and evidence you can verify.

You might wonder, "The Israelites had eyewitness proof; where’s Islam’s?" Well, here’s the thing: Prophets of Israel faced rejection, too, despite their miracles. Think about it. Moses’ followers still worshipped the calf! The Qur'an is seen as a linguistic, prophetic, moral, and preservational miracle.
It’s public, global, and you can test it today, unlike those one-time miracles from ancient history. Even the Qur'an states, "This is insight from your Lord, a guidance and mercy..." (Qur'an 7:203).
The real test isn’t about whether you actually saw a miracle, but whether you’re open to engaging with it sincerely.

Demanding a miracle you can see assumes that God needs to act like His creation to be credible. But Islam teaches that Allah reveals Himself through revelation, not by showing up in human form. Faith is meant to engage both reason and trust not just what you can see.

And remember, “You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:32)

The Qur'an echoes this sentiment: “We will show them Our signs in the horizons and in themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth.” (Qur'an 41:53).

TenQ:
But you IGNORE the fact that your prophet explicitly states that Allah will come in A SHAPE which you wouldn't accept initially, then Allah will come again in his original SHAPE and say I am your Lord!

You see why I said:
The whole of Islam is following
1. Your Scholars as a first priority
2. Mohammed as a second priority
3. Allah as a third priority

#In the Qur'an, Allah say pray THREE times: how many times do you pray? FIVE!
#In the Quran, Allah say do Mutah: you say Mohammed abrogated Mutah so you do not do it!
#Allah and Mohammed believes in the Preservation of the Injeel and Torah: your Muslim scholars say NO, that they are corrupted!
#Allah accuses people of the book as taking their Rabbis and Monks as LORDS instead of Allah AND the Messiah. But your scholars rewrote it to exclude the Messiah as LORD!
#Allah say that ALL Muslims must enter Hell Fire at least for some time. Your Islamic scholars created the Bridge of Sirat


Are Angels finite or infinite in size?
And it take EIGHT angels to carry the throne of Allah: thus Allah is finite sir.

There is not going around it.




No one is speaking about the size of Allah's eyes or its colour: neither are we speaking about the looks of Allah's hands whether long or short, lean or stout: we are speaking of the function of hands as Allah has described them AND not how you wish Allah's hands to be.

Allah used his TWO hands to mould Adam from clay and we stand by that!

WHy do you like manufacturing Allah different from what he himself claims to be?




Who should I believe first
1. Allah and his prophet Mohammed
2. You and your Islamic scholars?

Are you saying that the shape of Allah doesn't exist?
If Allah doesn't have a shape, how is he sitting upon his throne?


The Quran is a claim NOT a proof!
A proof is based on verifiable EVIDENCES that show that other claims can be trusted!

When God Divided the Sea through Moses: were there Witnesses? Thus we can trust God by the claims of Moses!
WHen Jesus raised up the dead were there Witnesses? Then we can trust God by the claims of Jesus
When Elijah made prophecies in the name of YHWH and it came to pass, were there Witnesses? Then we can trust God by the claims of Elijah!

What is the proof that Allah is God other than claims in the Quran?





You are not answering my question nor reading my argument

Why would the knowledge of the TRUTH lead to loss of Faith?
Knowledge should increase faith!



Can't you acknowledge the truth for once?

You will NOT face Hell. You will BE IN IT: then Allah will remove the Believers and leave the unbelievers on their knees(in Hell).

If only you can truthfully answer these two questions below, the truth rather than sentiments will come to you:
Will the Unbelievers be on the bridge of Sirat?
Will the unbelievers be left on their knees on the bridge of sirat?

If the unbelievers wouldn't be left on the bridge then everyone including you Muslims will be INSIDE the Fire before Allah removes you Muslims and lees the unbelievers on their knees!

Qur'an 19:71-72
"And there is none of you except he will come to it (Hell). This is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed. Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees."

1. If the Truth is that you will certainly enter hell fire (even if it is temporarily), would it distress you?
2. Knowing that you will enter the fire even if it is temporary is certainly NOT Good because the time you will spend is undefined!
3. Wouldn't this knowledge help you to begin to seek for a way of avoiding this calamity?
4. What will you call anyone who says you will pass over the bridge of Sirat or you will fly over hell contrary to Qur'an 19:71-72: would such be a friend!?

Allah's shape and visibility have been subjects of discussion, with authentic hadiths suggesting that He will appear in a recognizable form to believers, albeit later becoming unrecognizable - a notion that Sunni orthodoxy affirms, while emphasizing that Allah can be seen without modality, meaning He doesn't resemble creation or possess a physical shape like created beings; in fact, the term 'shape' used here doesn't imply a body or limit, and isn't comparable to human form, as stated in Surah Ash-Shura 42:11, which says, 'There is nothing like unto Him.'

Furthermore, the concept of Allah's shape is often misunderstood, and it's essential to approach this topic with a deep understanding of Islamic theology. The two hands of Allah, as mentioned in the Qur'an, where it's stated that Allah created Adam with His two hands (Surah 38:75), are attributes that we affirm without likening them to human limbs, a position held by early scholars like Imam Malik and Ahmad ibn Hanbal, who said, 'The attribute is known, the how is unknown, belief in it is obligatory, and asking about it is an innovation.'

Additionally, the idea that Muslims prioritize scholars over Allah is a misconception. Muslim scholars are merely tools for understanding what Allah and His Prophet (peace be upon him) revealed, and when Muslims follow ijma' (scholarly consensus), it's because the Prophet commanded it, as stated in the Hadith, 'My Ummah will never agree upon error' (Sunan Tirmidhi, Hadith: 2167), and scholars don't overwrite revelation, but rather interpret it through the Quran and Sunnah.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) also explained the five daily prayers in authentic hadith, which the Qur'an alludes to but doesn't fully enumerate, and Mut'ah (temporary marriage) was initially permitted but later abrogated by the Prophet himself, a legislative act that Muslims accept as valid.

Lastly, regarding the verse in the Qur'an (19:71) that states everyone will enter Hell, it's essential to consider the next verse, which clarifies that 'Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it,' and early scholars interpreted this as crossing over Hell via the Sirat (bridge), not entering into it bodily, a matter of tafsir that isn't universally agreed upon, and therefore, not a contradiction.

Evidence Supporting the Validity of the Quran and Islam The Quran offers a combination of internal proofs such as its linguistic brilliance, moral guidance, and prophetic accuracy—alongside external validations, including historical consistency, scientific insights, and unparalleled preservation. It boldly invites skeptics to replicate even a single chapter of its caliber (Qur’an 2:23), a challenge that remains unmet. Beyond mere assertions, the Quran’s transformative impact on individuals, its role in shaping civilizations, and the fulfillment of its prophecies stand as undeniable testimonies to its divine origin. Unlike other religious texts, the Quran is a self-validating miracle, preserved in its original form without alteration.


Very well you have argued the same thing thereby having me repeat myself. Then you have digressed into other questions you have repeated for years yet the answers aren't different except for your fixation that the answers will somehow change yet you have no new proof to enable this. Welll good luck.

TenQ:
Good that you finally acknowledged that Allah can be seen.

I am sure that you will agree with me that the difference between our senses here and in paradise is that our senses would be heightened.
Colours would be brighter, Sights would be sharper and clearer, Hearing would be perfect, Pleasures would be heightened etc

Thus, you Muslims would be able the see your Allah as clearly as younger the sun or moon. Al-Jalalayn and Ibn Kathir explained that the exception for Qur'an 6:103 will be in paradise. The believers will see Him with their own eyes, effortlessly and without any difficulty.

Imam Abu Hanifah states:
"The people of Paradise shall truly see Allah without manner, resemblance, or direction. The believers shall see Him in Paradise with their own eyes, without any distance between Him and them."



Do you know that ANYTHING that can be seen is a subset of the extended Universe and thus FINITE?


My argument is NOT about the LOOKS of Allah but that he has a FORM or SHAPE!

Are you aware that ANYTHING that has a shape is BOUNDED in Form (has a limited dimension)?

Furthermore,
Allah seems to have at least TWO forms or shapes which I want to believe are both eternal as they are of his essence.

So, what happened to Allah's real/original body when he appeared to you Muslims with a strange shape? Did this body die? And what happened to the strange shape of Allah when he came back to you Muslims in the shape you know?




Unfortunately, what you do or do not do is immaterial in this case: why!?
Because Allah defined exactly what he used his hands to do.

Allah used his two hands to mold Adam.

Quran 15:26
"And We did certainly create man from sounding clay, from mud molded into shape."

Otherwise, define what a HAND is and compare the functionality with respect to moulding clay/mud.

DENYING the Truth doesn't make you right: it actually guarantees that you are wrong![quote author=TenQ post=136290259]These are not philosophical traps, they are pitfalls in your theology!

*Allah is ONE
*Allah cannot enter into his creation
Yet we see that Allah puts on a different form from his original

Then, we want to ask
What happened to Allah's real/original body when he appeared to you Muslims with a strange shape? Did this body die? And what happened to the strange shape of Allah when he came back to you Muslims in the shape you know?



Of course you do avoid deep reasoning.
You will note that most of my questions were answered with

We don't answer such questions because they are philosophical traps!
OR
We do not imagine size or dimensions or etc
OR
We do not speculate beyond the text

Yours is what is called BLIND faith my friend!

A blind faith is a trust based on no credible evidence such kinds of faith are based purely on emotions!



Who are those who asked questions and thus became disbelievers?

Why do you think Allah says that knowing the TRUTH could cause you distress ?

Quran 5:101
"O you who have believed, do not ask about things which, if they are shown to you, will distress you. But if you ask about them while the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you. Allah has pardoned that which is past; and Allah is Forgiving and Forbearing."


1. Shouldn't you want to know the TRUTH even if it would distress you?
2. Are you aware that the end of any Truth that will cause you distress is NEVER good?
3. Are you aware that when you know the Truths that could cause you distress, you have an opportunity to avoid the Harm coming to you?
4. Would you call anyone who withhold a Truth that would cause you distress if you know about it a friend or an enemy?

My brother, I beg you to THINK about this verse.

Qur'an 19:71-72
"And there is none of you except he will come to it (Hell). This is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed. Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees."
1. If the Truth is that you will certainly enter hell fire (even if it is temporarily), would it distress you?
2. Knowing that you will enter the fire even if it is temporary is certainly NOT Good because the time you will spend is undefined!
3. Wouldn't this knowledge help you to begin to seek for a way of avoiding this calamity?
4. What will you call anyone who says you will pass over the bridge of Sirat or you will fly over hell contrary to Qur'an 19:71-72: would such be a friend!?

[/quote]1 Yes, Believers Will See Allah in Heaven

You're right. Islam says that true followers will see Allah later, as told in many hadiths. Early wise ones like Ibn Kathir, al-Jalalayn, & Imam Abu Hanifa said so too.

But this does not mean that Allah has a set shape or is part of creation.

Why?
Because the rules of this world do not bind what comes later. Light, time, & space don't work the same there. That’s why.

"His eyes do not catch Him, but He catches all eyes." (Qur’an 6:103)
"There is nothing like Him." (Qur’an 42:11)

So yes, believers will see Allah, but not like we see things here. Allah stays great, beyond all, & free — even if He shows Himself in a way fit for His grandeur.

2 Is All That Can Be Seen Bound to End?

No, that's a deep thought, not a God-given truth.

If you think so, then angels, jinn, & even the soul would have to be real things. But we learn from God's words that their true form is beyond us or not known.

Just because you can see it does not mean it is made of bits or is part of the big space. The truth of Heaven & how Allah shows up there is not bound by our world's rules.

3 What About Allah's Hands & Making Adam?

You bring up: Qur’an 38:75 - Why did you not bow to what I made with My hands?

Muslims take this as it is, without making Allah seem like us.

We do not say Allah’s hands are like ours.

We do not make His hands seem less.

We do not take them as just a symbol.

We say they are real, fitting His grandeur, & we do not ask how.

This is not doubt; it’s just the way. We don't ask how Allah knows, sees, or hears yet we trust those are true.

4. What If Allah Takes a Form?

This asks if Allah is like things that do not change, & if He shows up as new, does the old go away?

That's the wrong view. Allah is not made of parts or shapes. He shows Himself by His wish, not by turning or leaving a shape.

When Allah shows a form we know, it is just a show, not a change in who He is. He stays The First, The Last, The Seen, & The Unseen — all at the same time. (Qur’an 57:3)

Your question, "What happened to Allah’s form when He took on a new shape?" thinks wrong that He has a set form. But:

Allah does not change. He is not a thing.

5 Is It Blind Trust to Not Guess?

No. Not to speak of what we don't know is not blind trust; it’s just wise.

"Do not go into what you do not know." (Qur’an 17:36)

Islam lets us ask, but not guess, boast, or cause mess & false beliefs.

The wise ones said:
Say it as Allah did — without asking how.

This does not mean we drop logic. It means we don't act like we can grasp all that is unseen fully.

Blind trust is to hold to things with no proof. Islam's faith is based on:

God's words (Qur’an & true Hadith), good thought, logical sense (no clashes in what God is), & knowing our limits.

6. Qur’an 5:101–102 — "Don't Ask" Words

These words warn of asks that lead to loss of faith, not real seeks:
"O you who trust, don't ask of things that, if shown to you, would hurt you." (Qur’an 5:101)

In the Prophet’s days, some asked things not needed or to mock, & faced what they asked.

It's like when Israelites asked Moses about the cow in Qur’an 2:68–71. The more they asked, the harder the rule got. Their want for small things led to their fall.

These words warn us not to play with faith or test God with nonstop asks.

7. Qur’an 19:71–72 — Will Every Muslim Face Hell?

Every one of you will face it [Hell]...
Then We will save those who feared Allah...
(Qur’an 19:71–72)

Facing it doesn't mean going in & burning. Wise ones were not all the same on this. Some said it's like crossing a bridge over Hell.
Others said it's seeing it up close.

But Allah says He will save the good from it.
This is not wrong. It’s a test & a sign. Those who fall in are just, & those saved are by God’s love.

TenQ:
We see with our EYES, don't we?
We see when Lights from an object trajects into our eyes!

When you Muslims see Allah, will it be with your eyes or nose?
When you speak to Allah will it be with your mouth or ears?

Then, stop deceiving yourself by closing your mind to reality: If Allah Allah can be seen by mere humans, then he has a shape and light can reflect from him to your eyes.

At resurrection, will you Muslims have a body or not?


My argument was not that Allah has a human form: he could as well be a transformer, I don't care.

The important thing is that Allah has a SHAPE!

Do you still contest this?


If Allah's shape is his essence, Will Allah take up a form that is Temporal?

You do not want to delve into it because your theology breaks down.

Let me help you: Allah is so great that it is beneath him to enter his creation: Is this a true statement?


For the thousand time: My objective is not to compare Allah's hands with human hands.

What is a hand?
A hand is an appendage used primarily for holding, grabbing or touching things rather than walking.

This is what Allah says he has: two hands with which he created Adam!
Show me with evidence either from Allah or Mohammed that Allah's hands are not literal?



Allah could be unique in the sense that
1. He is bigger , taller and stronger than us
2. He is older than us humans
3. He has a complexion that is different from human complexions
4. His two hands are right hands

All these are obvious differences between Allah and us.

The problem of Muslims is that they shut down their reasoning facilities in other to avoid the Truth!

It's like you asking me the Question
Question:
TenQ, is the addition of 4 oranges to 5 oranges equal to 9 oranges?

My Response:
You see, we don't ask ourselves these kinds of questions! Human knowledge cannot grasp these answer because we don't even have the oranges at home! We don't overstep our boundaries beyond the oranges we have are ripe or unripe? It is inappropriate to ask such questions as we don't even have ripe oranges with us?

If these look silly to you, then just imagine how it looks to me!

These are problem of Islam. Islam cannot withstand scrutiny: all your claims always break down with questions

This is probably why Allah says:


Quran 5:101
"O you who have believed, do not ask about things which, if they are shown to you, will distress you. But if you ask about them while the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you. Allah has pardoned that which is past; and Allah is Forgiving and Forbearing."

The next verse gives the reason
Qur'an 5:102
"A people asked such [questions] before you; then they became thereby disbelievers."

Who are these people of old who became disbelievers because they asked questions?

So, you swallow LIES hook, line and sinker because you wouldn't ask questions that will set you free!

Only the Truth you know and imbibe will set you free.

John 8:32:
"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.”"

Matt 7:7:
"Ask, and it shall be given to you. Seek, and you shall find. Knock, and it shall be opened to you."

God want you to ASK Questions sir!

1. Can Allah Be Seen, and Does That Require a Shape?

Yes, Muslims affirm based on authentic Hadith that believers will see Allah on the Day of Resurrection. For example, the Prophet pbuh said you will see your Lord just as you see the moon on a clear night.(Sahih al-Bukhari 7439)

However, this does not mean Allah must have a shape that conforms to the laws of light, eyes, and space. The Prophet pbuh compared the clarity of vision not the form of Allah to the clarity of the moon or sun.

Furthermore, vision in the Hereafter is not like vision in this world. Just as the nature of Paradise, its pleasures, and the bodies of the resurrected are unlike anything we know now, the act of seeing Allah is also unique. It does not require light, retinas, or reflection, as those are worldly mechanisms. Allah, being the Creator of light and vision, is not subject to them.

As the Qur’an declares:Vision cannot grasp Him, but He grasps all vision.
(Qur’an 6:103)

To insist otherwise is to impose created limitations on the Creator, which is both theologically and rationally flawed.

2. Does Allah Have a Shape or Form?

Certain Hadith mention that Allah will come in a form that believers do not recognize at first, then later in a form they will recognize. Critics often seize on this to claim that Allah must have a shape.

Islamic scholars from the earliest generations responded clearly and
we affirm what is revealed, including that Allah will come in a way believers recognize.

But we do not define this as a shape in the material sense.

We do not imagine dimensions, size, light, or shadow.

And we do not speculate beyond the text.


The term shape in this context is part of the unseen and is affirmed without likening it to any human or material reality.

To say that Allah must have a shape simply because He is seen is like saying the soul must have a skeleton because we believe it can feel. It is a false analogy based on worldly assumptions.

3. The Issue of Two Hands in Qur’an 38:75

One of the most cited verses by critics is What prevented you from prostrating to that which I created with My two hands? (Qur’an 38:75)

Muslims do not deny this verse. Instead, we affirm it in a manner befitting Allah without imagining, likening, or interpreting it through human experience.

The mistake critics make is assuming that because humans use hands to grasp, Allah’s hands must serve the same purpose and therefore imply a physical body. But Allah has attributes unique to Him, and nothing is like Him.
There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearing, All-Seeing.
(Qur’an 42:11)

So, while we affirm Allah has two hands as mentioned in revelation, we do not define or describe them. We do not say they are limbs, appendages, or tools, nor do we say they are metaphorical.They are real, as Allah intends, but not like ours in any way.

4. Is Allah’s Form Eternal or Temporal?

Another question often raised is if Allah’s form is temporary or eternal?

Allah’s essence is eternal, and He does not change. If He chooses to appear to His creation in a way they can recognize, it is by His will, and not because He has taken on a new shape or has been limited by time.

Islamic theology carefully avoids such philosophical traps. We affirm what Allah reveals about Himself without asking how.
Asking if His form is temporal assumes He has a physical body in the first place which Islam explicitly rejects.

5. Do Muslims Avoid Reasoning?

No. Islam encourages deep reasoning, but always within the boundaries of revelation. Islam makes a critical distinction between:

Sound reason that submits to revelation,

And speculative reasoning that imagines Allah based on creation?

The Qur’an itself refutes blind speculation:
And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge.
(Qur’an 17:36)

Faith in Islam is not blind. It is built upon reason, evidence, and a deep awareness that human logic has limits when dealing with the Divine. As Imam Mālik famously said Allah’s rising above the Throne is known, how is unknown, belief in it is obligatory, and asking about it is a bid'ah (blameworthy innovation).

6. The Meaning of Qur’an 5:101–102

Critics often quote:
Do not ask about things which, if made apparent to you, would distress you...” (Qur’an 5:101)

This is not a command to avoid all questions. It refers to harmful, speculative, or rebellious questioning, like what some people did to past prophets out of mockery or stubbornness.

Islam welcomes sincere, honest inquiry. In fact, the Qur’an commands believers to reflect, contemplate, and seek knowledge but within the scope of what Allah has revealed.

TenQ:
I didn't even repeat anything. I just showed you two similar Hadiths because you don't answer direct questions. The truth usually has to be forced out of you before you acknowledge it.


Good.
If Allah can be seen, he MUST necessarily have a SHAPE!

Note that my argument isn't about whether Allah hooks like us humans (even though this is true).
My goal is to help you admit that Allah has a shape...In don't care how Allah looks like.

Is Allah's shape (the one you will see on the daynof resurrection TEMPORAL or ETERNAL ?




Aren't you wilfully DENYING obvious TRUTHS by refusing to examine it?

It's like saying that President Tinubu is a White Caucasian Man in spite of the evidence with the excuse that in my household, we don't look at skin colour!




If Allah never mentioned that he created Adam with his two hands, you may be able to wriggle out but Allah's inclusion of the qualifier TWO fixed Allah's words as literal

Quran 38:75
"He said, ‘O Iblis! What prevented you from prostrating to that which I created with My two hands? Are you arrogant, or are you among the exalted?’

1. Does Seeing Require Allah to Have a Shape?
Absolutely not. In Islamic theology, the ability to see Allah doesn’t hinge on Him having a physical form or shape as we know it. The Prophet (pbuh) explicitly mentioned, "You will see your Lord..." but left the specifics of His appearance undefined. Think of it like this: the sun and moon analogy isn’t about form but clarity. Seeing something especially in the unseen, eternal realm doesn’t demand a spatial or tangible structure. Allah is beyond comparison, yet He can still be perceived. It’s not a contradiction; it’s the reality of the divine.

2. Does Allah Have a Shape?

Hadiths do reference Allah appearing in a form, but here’s the catch: it’s not a form bound by human concepts like size, material, or features. Muslims affirm that Allah will manifest in a recognizable way, but we don’t box it into terms like "physical shape" or "body." Why? Because the Qur’an (42:11) states, "There is nothing like unto Him." So yes, He can be seen, and yes, He’ll appear in a manner believers recognize—but we don’t dive into speculative details about that form.

3. Is Allah’s Form Temporal or Eternal?

Allah’s essence is timeless and unchanging, free from the constraints of time or space. Any form He takes when appearing to believers isn’t like ours, but we’re not told whether it’s an eternal attribute or a temporary manifestation. Bottom line? We stick to what the texts say and avoid overstepping.

4. About Quran 38:75 – “My Two Hands”

Mainstream Islam doesn’t shy away from affirming that Allah mentioned "two hands." But let’s be clear: these aren’t literal, physical limbs. It’s a majestic expression of His power and favor, like when He created Adam "with His two hands"—a truth that stands apart from human comparisons. We take it at face value without reducing it to human terms.

5. The question of whether Muslims are denying obvious truths is a matter of perspective, as the Islamic faith emphasizes the transcendent and incomparable nature of Allah. Unlike tangible entities, such as human beings, Allah’s essence is beyond physical representation or direct observation. The Qur’an and Hadith explicitly state that Allah is unique, with no likeness or equal, as evidenced by verses like Surah Ash-Shura (42:11) and Surah Al-Ikhlas (112:4). These texts also affirm that human knowledge cannot fully grasp His nature. When posed with queries like, "Does Allah have a shape?" the response is nuanced: while believers may recognize His manifestations, attributing physicality to Allah is inappropriate, as it imposes limitations on His infinite and unseen reality.

TenQ:
If Allah can be SEEN, then he has some form or shape! Do you contest this!?

The companions asked:
Would we see our Lord?
Mohammed compared the seeing of Allah like the seeing of the sun.
I am sure they were not asking the question
Would we know our Lord!?




Is it UNTRUE that:
Your prophet described Allah in form of SHAPES.
You Muslims will reject Allah because of his new SHAPE!
Then Allah will come to you in another SHAPE!

My argument is not that Allah is in human form but he is anyways
Sahih Muslim 2612 e
This hadith has been transmitted on the authority of Abu Huraira and in the hadith transmitted on the authority of Ibn Hatim Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) is reported to have said: When any one of you fights with his brother, he should avoid his face for Allah created Adam in His own image.
Allah looks at least facially like Adam.

We don't know his height, complexion. We know Allah has two right hands. We also know that you Muslims will recognise Allah by his shin

Sahih al-Bukhari 7439
[s]Narrated Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri: We said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Shall we see our Lord on the Day of Resurrection?" He said, "Do you have any difficulty in seeing the sun and the moon when the sky is clear?" We said, "No." He said, "So you will have no difficulty in seeing your Lord on that Day as you have no difficulty in seeing the sun and the moon (in a clear sky)........

They will reply, 'We used to worship Messiah, the son of Allah.' It will be said, 'You are liars, for Allah has neither a wife nor a son. What: do you want (now)?' They will say, 'We want You to provide us with water.' It will be said to them, 'Drink,' and they will fall down in Hell (instead). When there remain only those who used to worship Allah (Alone), both the obedient ones and the mischievous ones, it will be said to them, 'What keeps you here when all the people have gone?' They will say, 'We parted with them (in the world) when we were in greater need of them than we are today, we heard the call of one proclaiming, 'Let every nation follow what they used to worship,' and now we are waiting for our Lord.' Then the Almighty will come to them in a shape other than the one which they saw the first time, and He will say, 'I am your Lord,' and they will say, 'You are not our Lord.' And none will speak: to Him then but the Prophets, and then it will be said to them, 'Do you know any sign by which you can recognize Him?' They will say. 'The Shin,' and so Allah will then uncover His Shin whereupon every believer will prostrate before Him and there will remain those who used to prostrate before Him just for showing off and for gaining good reputation. These people will try to prostrate but their backs will be rigid like one piece of a wood (and they will not be able to prostrate). Then the bridge will be laid across Hell." We, the companions of the Prophet (ﷺ) said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! What is the bridge?'

when they see themselves safe........

the water of life.........
[/s]

So, you see that ALLAH has a shape and the shape has a Shin by which you Muslims will recognise him.




Is it untrue that Adam was created in the image of Allah?

If it is true, then Allah will look like us only that we may not be sure of his height, his size, his completion etc

Like I said:
Your prophet compared Allah to the Dajjal in pointing out differences. The Dajjal in many respects look like a human being!




I don't follow your Salad for knowledge of your religion. I follow what Allah says and what Mohammed said.

If you follow Mohammed, Allah has a shape, Allah is one, Allah cannot have a son because he doesn't have a consort, Allah sits upon his throne on the waters which is above the seven heavens, Allah has two right hands.
If you follow Allah, you will note that Allah created Adam with his TWO hands.

Your Salaf are reinventing the Religion of Mohammed because many of what he says are embarrassing.




Exactly!
I have accepted the Hadiths exactly as they are and the implications are haunting for Islam.




Truely, Muslims do not follow Allah or Mohammed:
You follow the consensus of your Scholars

You have a flair for having the same thing repeated isn't it?

So you're saying that if Allah can be seen, then maybe He has some form or shape. Muslims do believe that Allah will be seen on the Day of Resurrection, but that doesn’t mean He looks like His creation or has a body like ours.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) compared seeing Allah to the clarity and ease of spotting the sun and moon, not in terms of Allah’s appearance. Seeing doesn’t mean being physically similar. Allah Himself states in the Qur’an (42:11), "There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearing, All-Seeing."

You also mentioned those Hadiths where Allah appears in a way believers don’t recognize at first, and later in a form they do. And that believers will recognize Him by His Shin. These narrations are authentic and widely accepted. Scholars explain that the description of His form and His Shin are qualities of Allah that we affirm without trying to understand how. We accept these descriptions as truths but don’t interpret them to mean Allah has a body or limbs, or that He resembles creation.

Just like we acknowledge Allah’s ability to see and hear without needing eyes or ears like ours, we also accept these attributes without trying to picture them. Regarding the Hadith “Allah created Adam in His image,” scholars like Imam Nawawi and even Ibn Taymiyyah clarified that this refers to Adam being made with a complete human form (speech, intellect, dignity) not that Allah looks like Adam or vice versa. Claiming that Allah looks human goes against the core of Islamic belief, which stresses Allah’s absolute uniqueness and that He isn’t like anything in His creation.

You also mentioned that Allah has two right hands, a face, smiles, and that He’s described in contrast to the Dajjal. These descriptions come from authentic Hadith, and scholars from early Islam warned us not to interpret them in human terms. When the Prophet pbuh said “Your Lord is not one-eyed,” it was to show that Allah is perfect and has no defects not that He looks like the Dajjal. It’s about affirming Allah’s perfection, not making a comparison.

You say that Muslims follow scholars instead of Allah and His Messenger. But scholars didn’t make up these beliefs. They carefully studied the Qur’an and Hadith, staying true to what the Prophet’s companions understood. They taught us to affirm what Allah and His Messenger said, without likening Allah to anything, denying His attributes, or speculating about how they work. The reason Muslims don’t say Allah is a body or has a shape isn’t because we reject the Hadith, but because the Prophet pbuh and the Qur’an warned us never to compare Allah to creation.

Scholars have preserved that warning. When you say the Hadith are “haunting for Islam,” you’re assuming they mean Allah has a human-like form, but that’s not what the Prophet intended or what the earliest Muslims thought. So yes, Muslims believe that Allah will be seen.

TenQ:
Sorry!
All Mohammed needed to say was
"If you are confused about the Dajjal, your Lord is NOT physical"!

But what did Mohammed say!?
1. He describes the Dajjal in detail
2. He mentioned one serious flaw in the Dajjal: as the ONE eye
3. He says: if you are still confused note that Allah doesn't have one eye!


Is the Dajjal ALMOST perfect but with a flaw?
Then why compare him with Allah!?

Yes, we believe in Allah's attributes as mentioned in the Qur’an and Hadith. But we don't describe them in physical or human terms. We accept everything Allah and His Messenger have said, and we avoid comparing the Creator with His creation. That’s the core of Tawhid — complete oneness with God.

Saying that your Lord isn’t one-eyed doesn't mean Allah has two eyes like we do. It’s more about clarifying that He’s perfect and doesn’t have any flaws, so there’s no room for confusion about His nature.

TenQ:
I agree that these are the things you wish to believe about your Allah BUT

Your prophet disagrees with you as Allah has at least a shape.

Sahih al-Bukhari 6573
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Some people said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Shall we see our Lord on the Day of Resurrection?" He said, "Do you crowd and squeeze each other on looking at the sun when it is not hidden by clouds?" They replied, "No, Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)." He said, "Do you crowd and squeeze each other on looking at the moon when it is full and not hidden by clouds?" They replied, No, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)!" He said, "So you will see Him (your Lord) on the Day of Resurrection...


Do you deny that:
Whatever can be SEEN has a shape?
Your prophet says that you will SEE Allah!


Continuing with the same hadith

Sahih al-Bukhari 6573
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Some people said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Shall we see our Lord on the Day of Resurrection?"
.......
similarly Allah will gather all the people and say, 'Whoever used to worship anything should follow that thing. 'So, he who used to worship the sun, will follow it, and he who used to worship the moon will follow it, and he who used to worship false deities will follow them; and then only this nation (i.e., Muslims) will remain, including their hypocrites. Allah will come to them in a shape other than they know and will say, 'I am your Lord.' They will say, 'We seek refuge with Allah from you. This is our place; (we will not follow you) till our Lord comes to us, and when our Lord comes to us, we will recognize Him. Then Allah will come to then in a shape they know and will say, "I am your Lord.' They will say, '(No doubt) You are our Lord,' and they will follow Him. .....


Do you deny that your prophet said that Allah will come to you Muslims in SHAPES?

Two Eyes (as the Dajjal has only one eye
One shin
Two right hands
Even Allah will put his FOOT over hell fire and it would scream.. enough.. enough!


Sahih al-Bukhari 6573
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Some people said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Shall we see our Lord on the Day of Resurrection?" .....
.' Then Allah will turn his face away from the Fire. The man will say after that, 'O Lord, bring me near the gate of Paradise.' Allah will say (to him),....

Do you deny that Allah will turn his FACE away from the fire of Hell?

Because, Allah has a Face. His face is only different from our face.


Sahih al-Bukhari 6573
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Some people said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Shall we see our Lord on the Day of Resurrection?"....

O Lord! Do not make me the most wretched of Your creation,' and will keep on invoking Allah till Allah will smile and when Allah will smile because of him, then He will allow him to enter Paradise, and when he will enter Paradise, he will be addressed, 'Wish from so-and-so.' He will wish till all his wishes will be fulfilled, then Allah will say, All this (i.e. what you have wished for) and as much again therewith are for you.' " Abu Huraira added: That man will be the last of the people of Paradise to enter (Paradise).


Do you deny that Allah smiles?

Smiling is a human attribute isn't it? Let me know of any other creature in heaven and non earth that smiles other than humans and probably the Jinn.

From what I know, smiling is a FACIAL expression involving the physical mouth.

Your prophet who knows Allah better that any Muslim seems to know that Allah looks very much like the Dajjal EXCEPT that, Allah has TWO eyes while the Dajjal has only one eyes: he this warms you not to be confused about the Dajjal when you see him


Mishkat al-Masabih 5485
`Ubada b. as-Samit reported God's messenger as saying, "I have told you so much about the dajjal that I am afraid you may not understand. The antichrist is short, hen-toed[*], woolly-haired, one-eyed, an eye sightless and neither protruding nor deep-seated. If you are confused about him, know that your Lord is not one-eyed."
*It may also mean 'bandy-legged.


So, you see:
A wish and the Truth may be very different!
Allah has a shape and he is NOT a spirit.
Don't forget that the Jinn also has bodies and they are not spirits (according to Islam: they are made of smokeless fire)

1. Yes, Allah will be seen in the Hereafter. But don’t picture it like seeing a thing with your eyes. Think of it more like a clarity or a truth that becomes obvious, kind of like how the moon is clear in the night sky, not because of how it looks, but because you can see it well.

2. Allah will come so that people will recognize, but it’s not a human form; no body, no limbs, just a way people will understand His presence.

3. When we talk about attributes like His hand, face, shin, smile, or foot, we say them because they are true, but we don’t compare them to human features. They’re unlike anything in creation, real and unique.

4. Tawhid(the concept of the oneness of Allah) really emphasizes that imagining Allah as having a body or parts is totally off-limits. That idea is basically anthropomorphism, which the early scholars (Salaf) strongly oppose and is not part of true Islam.

5. So, all these sayings (hadith) should be accepted just how they are without twisting, denying, questioning how, or making comparisons to anything else.

TenQ:
You did NOT answer my question
Can Taoheed allow Allah to be simultaneously truely in two places at the same time? Does the Taoheed allow Allah to be Somewhere and Everywhere at the same time?

You said:



But Allah has a Body
Allah indeed has hands (even if his hands are not like our hands)
Allah indeed has eyes (even if they are not like ours)
Allah indeed has a shin( even if it is different from ours)
In summary:
1. Allah has a shape
2. Allah is NOT a Spirit

If there is anything FALSE about any only claims, let me know

This shape of Allah sits on one throne that eight created goat like angels carry.

If Allah sits on created throne which is carried by created angels AND Allah is looking like created beings then Allah's nature would at best be like the nature of Angels and Jinn!





I didn't ask if Allah can ACT on earth while in Heaven. I asked if it was possible that
Allah to be simultaneously truely in two places at the same time? Does the Taoheed allow Allah to be Somewhere and Everywhere at the same time?
You did NOT answer my question sir. You answered about acting remotely not direct presence!


Please, with evidence!

Allah has beautiful names and attributes, like hearing, sight, hand, and mercy. These are mentioned in the Qur’an and Sunnah, but none of them are like anything in creation. Allah is not a body, has no shape, and isn’t limited by space or time. He is above His Throne, so that suits His majesty (Qur’an 20:5). Still, His knowledge, power, will, and commands include everything, even though He isn’t physically inside creation (Qur’an 57:4). This balance shows we affirm His greatness without likening Him to anything human, and acknowledge His transcendence without denying His existence. Allah is above the Throne. The Qur’an describes how The Most Merciful rose over the Throne (Qur’an 20:5). He is exalted above creation, not part of it. Nothing is like Him. There is nothing comparable to Him, and He is all-hearing and all-seeing (Qur’an 42:11). His attributes are unique and do not resemble human body parts. And no matter where you are, He is with you (Qur’an 57:4). His knowledge and power are everywhere, but His essence isn’t limited to space. He knows everything – He is all-knowing (Qur’an 2:282). Knowledge surrounds all places, but His presence isn’t bodily. Some of His attributes like hand, eye, and shin are mentioned in the Qur’an (Qur’an 38:75, 20:39, 68:42). We affirm these without asking how, and without making them like human parts, or denying their reality. Imam Malik explained that when it comes to His rising (istiwa), we believe in it, accept that we don’t understand how, and avoid questioning it as an innovation. Belief is essential, and asking details about it is not correct.

Gabrielshow24:
😂 Probably, you should read your write-up again!
You unwittingly refuted yourself!😅

Let me exemplify a bit. First you admonish us not to downgrade the work of agents, in this case Angels for your own propaganda 🤨, but you commit the same in Isa. Secondly, you said we shouldn't limit God but the standard narratives limited God by asserting it was impossible for him to have a son without a wife.

I would have loved to go deeper and dissect your thesis and bring out more and more self-refutations but I think these two are sufficient for now. I will add others.

Also for the record, Allah didn't create Iphones! You can take it up with any intellectual. The same conclusion will be arrived upon.

There indeed is your problem. Wanting to give relevance to another not the one who enabled.

Did the IPhone manufacturer also produce the material from which the phone was produced?

Who created the human and bestowed intellect and intelligence?

Small wonder you have this misunderstanding.

TenQ:
It is good you answered your apparent initial confusion about who actually destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.

Now
Can Taoheed allow Allah to be simultaneously truely in two places at the same time? Does the Taoheed allow Allah to be Somewhere and Everywhere at the same time?

It is a Yes or No answer!
If your answer is Yes and knowing that Allah is NOT a Spirit, give explanation with EVIDENCES!

No need to as my answer is in my earlier response.

Ohyoudidnt:
Allah is the ultimate source of everything. He may create through various means, like how humans come up with inventions such as iPhones, but at the end of the day, He is the true Creator behind it all.

When the angels declared, We will destroy this place,they were acting as messengers on God’s behalf, not as independent forces; the destruction ultimately came from Yahweh. This aligns with the Qur'an, which teaches that while Jibril conveyed Allah’s words, he did not originate them.

In a similar vein, when Moses parted the sea by raising his hand, it was God who truly split the waters. There’s no contradiction here; it’s all about divine action through chosen agents.

Allah is fundamentally different from creation. He isn’t a physical body, isn’t limited by space, and isn’t bound by time. Yet, His knowledge, power, and will are present and effective everywhere. So yes, Allah can act on earth while being above the heavens, without being in two places like a creature, because nothing compares to Him (Qur'an 42:11).

Therefore, it’s misguided to mock the role of agents like angels in God’s plans or to impose human limitations on how the Creator operates. The consistent message in both the Bible and the Qur’an is clear: God commands, angels execute, but only God holds the true power.

Allah is fundamentally different from creation. He isn’t a physical body, isn’t limited by space, and isn’t bound by time. Yet, His knowledge, power, and will are present and effective everywhere.

Gabrielshow24:
😂The bolded refutes the standard narratives.

You unwittingly refuted yourself on several fronts. 😂

Most definitely not.

Glad to show you that the creator and sustainer has all power. You are wrong to asset powers or abilities to God's creation while forgetting the source.

TenQ:
Let me ask you a basic question to test your comprehension

Who parted the Red Sea for the Children of Israel
1. Was it Moses?
2. Was it God?
Is this contradictory?

Whose words is the Qur'an
1. Is it Jibril's?
2. Is it Allah?
Is this contradictory?

So, how is it confusing for you that two angels are sent as emissary to Sodom and Gomorrah for it's destruction BUT God was the Power behind the Destruction?

TenQ:
You desire a God that is LIKE objects in creation!

What is confusing with the Fact that God YHWH can be simultaneously independently in Heaven and Earth at the same time?

Is it confusing because NOTHING in creation can simultaneously be in two places at the same time?


I guess it was Paul that wrote this verse too!
LOL!!

Can Taoheed allow Allah to be simultaneously in two places at the same time? Does the Taoheed allow Allah to be Somewhere and Everywhere at the same time?
It's a simple question o!

Gabrielshow24:
Don't get it wrong, there were two angels. Hence it's imperative for them to say such.🤨

Now, answer my question. Did Allah create Iphones? 👀
The part you also failed to acknowledge was that they escorted Lot—Just as Abraham asked should be done. While God did the destruction. Their act of escorting lot, sentenced Sodom to its destruction. A signal for God to perform his bidding.

Allah is the ultimate source of everything. He may create through various means, like how humans come up with inventions such as iPhones, but at the end of the day, He is the true Creator behind it all.

When the angels declared, We will destroy this place,they were acting as messengers on God’s behalf, not as independent forces; the destruction ultimately came from Yahweh. This aligns with the Qur'an, which teaches that while Jibril conveyed Allah’s words, he did not originate them.

In a similar vein, when Moses parted the sea by raising his hand, it was God who truly split the waters. There’s no contradiction here; it’s all about divine action through chosen agents.

Allah is fundamentally different from creation. He isn’t a physical body, isn’t limited by space, and isn’t bound by time. Yet, His knowledge, power, and will are present and effective everywhere. So yes, Allah can act on earth while being above the heavens, without being in two places like a creature, because nothing compares to Him (Qur'an 42:11).

Therefore, it’s misguided to mock the role of agents like angels in God’s plans or to impose human limitations on how the Creator operates. The consistent message in both the Bible and the Qur’an is clear: God commands, angels execute, but only God holds the true power.

Gabrielshow24:
Actually, if you had gone earlier you would have seen that God when appearing to Abraham went there. He had given the green light for such destruction.

Angels were sent to rescue lot and likewise initiate the destruction of Sodom—The hebrew wording emphasizes that Yahweh rained fire out of Yahweh from heaven. Attributing the destruction of Sodom, ultimately to God! Not Angels which were solely agents of such a destruction. Hope this clear this up.

Abraham's request to God was that God won't destroy the righteous with the wicked, hence it's imperative that the righteous be escorted out of the city, which by the way was done by the angels, before the destruction commenced!

I have been quite engaged on other threads hence didn't see this mention. You still haven't provided a response to my question 👀.

You didn't quite answer my direct questions or concerns.

The angels declared, We will destroy this place, because they were acting as God's authorized representatives, speaking on His behalf with the authority He had given them. In biblical terms, these agents often communicate as if they are the ones taking action, even though all the power and deeds truly belong to God.

Which question didn't I answer?

Gabrielshow24:
It's not.

Well you should expantiate as Genesis 19:13 tells us that angels were the ones who destroyed Sodom, but then in 19:24, it says that the Lord Himself rained down fire.

What’s even more puzzling is the phrase that suggests the Lord rained from the Lord, which makes it sound like there are two Lords involved, leading to more confusion.

In verse 19:13, it mentions that the Lord sent the angels to destroy the city, while verse 19:24 states that the LORD rained brimstone and fire upon Sodom and Gomorrah from the LORD out of heaven.

These kinds of contradictions and vague wording can really lead to misunderstandings about who God is and what His role is in these events.

Steep:
The same Tertullian told you that the Son is of same essence with the father. You have ran away from theotes because you found out your lie could not stand.
If Jesus has the fulness of God hood then he is God.

A lot of Christians hold the belief that Jesus and God are one in essence but distinct in person. However, this idea seems to contradict itself.

If they truly share the same essence, how can they also be distinct?

If Jesus were truly equal to God, he would possess perfect knowledge and power. Yet, he stated, The Father is greater than I (John 14:28) and admitted he didn’t know the Hour (Mark 13:32).

A useful analogy is two Coke bottles from the same batch; while they contain the same ingredients, they remain two separate, limited entities not one. Similarly, claiming that Jesus and the Father are of one essence but distinct persons leads to the conclusion of two beings, rather than one indivisible God.

Jesus never taught the concept of the Trinity or referred to God as three-in-one, and you won’t find the word “Trinity” anywhere in the Bible. The early Christians didn’t preach this idea. The doctrine only emerged through Church councils, particularly Nicaea (325 CE) and Constantinople (381 CE). Even early theologians like Tertullian, who came up with the term Trinitas, acknowledged that it was a theological interpretation, not something that Jesus himself taught.

Gabrielshow24:
You have not dismissed the existence of trinity in Genesis, perhaps you missed the verse Gen19:24 "The Lord rained down sulfur and fire ... —from the Lord out of heaven".

Likewise was it Allah that appeared to Abraham 🤔? was it Allah that supposedly walked with Adam in the cool of the day?🤧—Definitely not! By definition, it can never be Allah👀.

Even with all your glib and maudlin statement, you failed to answer my question! I will repeat for the sake of emphasis, "Did Allah create Iphones?"

This also brings to the mind another pertinent issue thrashed out in some thread🤔 about the "Quranic fact that Allah was the one in the fire😂". Something that contradicts the standard narratives 🤧

Specifically with reference to your speak on Gen 19:24 can you explain if it is double speak or contradiction when you read Gen 19:13?

Claim: The Lord who dined with Abraham can't be Allah by any definition.

Islam firmly rejects the notion that Allah could become a man or partake in food, as this contradicts His essence of being entirely unlike His creation (Qur’an 42:11). In Genesis 18, it mentions that the LORD appeared, but many Christian scholars interpret this as a vision or an angelic representation rather than God Himself in a literal sense. To suggest that this was a pre-incarnate Jesus is more of a speculation than something explicitly stated in scripture.

Claim: Did Allah create iPhones?

Error in reasoning: This is a flawed analogy. Allah is the Creator of all fundamental materials, the intellects behind the invention of iPhones, and the physical laws that govern them. Humans can assemble things, but they don’t create from nothing. So, in truth, without Allah, iPhones wouldn’t exist. When Jesus formed a clay bird, he was working with existing materials, and life was granted only by Allah’s permission (Qur’an 5:110). Did Angel Gabriel create the life of Jesus as a baby growing in Mary’s womb?

Adam and Jesus aren’t comparable. One is made of clay, while the other is the Word and Spirit.

The Qur’an makes a clear comparison between them.

Indeed, the likeness of Jesus to Allah is akin to that of Adam. He created him from dust, then commanded him, “Be,” and he was (Qur’an 3:59). This illustrates that both were created without fathers, solely by divine command. Being the Word and Spirit from Allah doesn’t imply divinity; these are created words and spirits, not fragments of God.

Your prophet never performed a miracle. [s]The moon-splitting is not even in the Qur’an[/s].

That’s incorrect. The Qur’an explicitly mentions the splitting of the moon: “The Hour has drawn near, and the moon has split” (Qur’an 54:1). Additionally, authentic Hadiths in Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim confirm this event along with other miracles:

- Water flowing from his fingers
- Multiplying food
- Israʾ and Miʿraj (the night journey and ascension)

Claiming that he performed no miracles is simply not true, and dismissing all historical sources aside from the Qur’an isn’t consistent with Christian methodology either, which heavily relies on which relies heavily on extra-biblical church councils and traditions.

Gabrielshow24:
Ohyoudidnt, your response is above!
CreativeOrbit can also help you.

Gabrielshow24:
Trinity has been conceptually!...right from Genesis. There are instances of this in Genesis but I suppose that definitely the Lord that ate and dined with Abraham, can't be Allah👀—By definition!

Moving on😅, to other books such as the zabur we see other instances!—The spirit, the Son comes into play. We can continue going, book by book to see that such concept is well exemplified in the bible!

Now, with all your eloquence you failed to address the simple question, "Did Allah create Iphones?"🤦🏾‍♂️ I suppose such a question is very difficult for an intellectual such as yourself...is it? 👀

Adam didn't have a Father because he was molded from clay, Jesus didn't have a physical Father for he was the word and spirit from Allah! There are two different things—You can't draw similarities between the Sun and firewood with inference of equality!

Your prophet, even with the way you want to associate with him the miracle of the moon, wasn't presented that way by the Quran🤣! He was the only prophet that didn't perform a single miracle, he is basically just like one of us👀! He claimed the Quran was the miracle🤔, the same way I claim this post is the miracle that Allah sent me with😅!... Believe me, as the last prophet ✋... 🤣🤣🤣

There's no archeological, scientific and historical source to corroborate such a story! In some thread last year that dealt with this extensively, we concluded that Allah used Mangekyo sharingan 😉👁️! And no such thing occured! —Well, there goes your claim😅!

Jesus is the only prophet that is specifically assigned these attributes 🤔. Even the best of mankind was relegated to the sidelines, you had to create a creed to give him cognizance 😅. The fact remains that Allah took him to himself and he is the "supposed" word of Allah or from Allah👀—Any one you choose doesn't help your cause philosophically!

The concept of the Trinity isn't actually found in Genesis. While Genesis 1:1–2 does mention God and the Spirit hovering over the waters, it doesn't refer to three distinct persons or a Son. People often point to the phrase let Us make man in Our image (Genesis 1:26), but the plural language in Hebrew (Elohim) is used for majesty rather than indicating multiple beings .

Even Jewish scholars tend to reject a Trinitarian interpretation. Plus, the term “Trinity” itself never appears in the Bible, and the idea was only formally established centuries later at the Council of Nicea in 325 CE.

Couldn't reply steep at the time but he should consider 1 Corinthians 8:6 in Greek to see theos used for God and kyrios used for Jesus.

Paul refers to God as Theos and uses Kyrios for Jesus, which clearly sets them apart. This choice of words doesn’t support the idea of the Trinity; instead, it highlights Jesus' role as subordinate and a mediator, aligning with the Islamic perspective of him being a messenger rather than God.

While Kyrios can indeed be a divine title, it has also been used for kings, masters, and other respected individuals. For instance, even Abraham is referred to as lord (kyrios) in the Septuagint, the Greek version of the Old Testament.

TenQ:
Taoheed also doesn't exist anywhere in the Qur'an



Can you explain why it is not a mistake of Allah to infuse in Jesus Christ attributes not given to any man
1. Jesus is a co-creator of Life with Allah
2. Jesus is the only born human with no human father
3. Jesus is the only spirit from Allah who became human
4. Jesus is the only Word of Allah cast down from Allah to become human





Quran (22:73)
"O people, an example is presented, so listen to it. Indeed, those you invoke besides Allah will never create [as much as] a fly, even if they gathered together for that purpose. And if the fly should steal away a thing from them, they could not recover it from him. Weak are the pursuer and pursued."


Only God can create life according to Allah

1. You’re absolutely right that the term Tawhid doesn’t appear word-for-word in the Qur’an or Hadith, but its meaning is definitely emphasized, taught, and is a fundamental part of Islam.

2. Take Surah al-Ikhlas (112) for instance; it offers a complete definition of Tawhid. It states, “Say, He is Allah, One. Allah, the Self-Sufficient. He begets not, nor was He begotten, and none is like unto Him.”

3. The Prophet Muhammad consistently highlighted Allah’s oneness. He instructed that the first thing you should call people to is the testimony that no one has the right to be worshipped except Allah... (Bukhari, Muslim) — this really captures the essence of Tawhid.

4. So, while the term itself might not be explicitly mentioned, the doctrine of Tawhid is undeniably the central theme of the Qur’an. Scholars later coined the term to articulate this recurring truth.

But What About the Trinity?

5. Similarly, the term Trinity (Greek: Trías, Latin: Trinitas) isn’t found in the words of Jesus or anywhere in the Bible, whether in the Old or New Testament.

6. More crucially, the idea of three co-equal divine persons isn’t clearly laid out in the Bible either. In fact, Jesus states, “The Father is greater than I” (John 14:28) and “My God and your God” (John 20:17), which contradicts the notion of co-equality.

7. Even the verse most often cited to support the Trinity, Matthew 28:19, was quoted differently by early Christians like Eusebius, suggesting it may have been altered. Janosky has also shown that Tertullian didn’t support it either.

Tawhid isn’t just a term; it’s the core message that echoes throughout the Qur’an. In contrast, the Trinity isn’t clearly taught by name or concept in the Bible; it was developed later to address contradictions.



It's not a mistake for Allah to bestow upon Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) certain attributes that He hasn't given to other humans. In Islam, miracles and special signs are divine gifts meant for His chosen prophets, serving to affirm their prophethood rather than suggesting divinity.

Each prophet received something remarkable tailored to address the needs or doubts of their communities. For instance, Moses had his staff and the power to part the sea. Solomon was granted dominion over the jinn. Muhammad (pbuh) was given the Qur’an and the miracle of the moon splitting. Jesus was blessed with the ability to heal, shape figures from clay, and be born without a father, all by Allah’s will.

These extraordinary signs don’t elevate a prophet to divine status, just as Adam’s creation without parents didn’t make him divine either.

Trinity that isn't exactly expressed in the Bible?

You selectively read the verse in the Quran?

And on Judgment Day˺Allah will say, “O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour upon you and your mother: how I supported you with the holy spirit so you spoke to people in your infancy and adulthood. How I taught you writing, wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel. How you moulded a bird from clay by My Will and breathed into it and it became a real bird by My Will. How you healed the blind and the lepers by My Will. How you brought the dead to life by My Will. How I prevented the Children of Israel from harming you when you came to them with clear proofs and the disbelievers among them said, “This is nothing but pure magic.”


You vehemently disregarded by my will (Allah's will).

Jesus may perform the physical acts, but he isn't the one who created everything. The true source of all creation, in a divine sense, is Allah alone. He bestowed the miracle upon Jesus as a sign, not as a way to prove divinity.

Enough has been said.

Gabrielshow24:
There's no correlation between your predicament and "the real truth"!

A lot of people have faced this in other sections not too inclined to free speech 👀! By your logic those people can't handle the hard Truth😂!

Look above in response to your claim I failed to address your points

Ohyoudidnt:
Quite right. For some reason my further responses aren't allowed with a following ban. I see the real truth is too much for them to bare.

1. Dependence suggests a lack of unity. True unity is all about cooperation. When we look at Jesus needing permission (Qur’an 5:110), it highlights that he couldn't act on his own, unlike Allah, who is completely Self-Sufficient (Qur’an 112:2).

2. Not knowing the Hour indicates limited knowledge. Mark 13:32 tells us that even the Son doesn’t know the Hour. This isn’t just symbolic; it’s a straightforward acknowledgment of limitation. God, by His very nature, is all-knowing.

3. One will doesn’t equate to authority. Jesus stated, "The Father is greater than I" (John 14:28). When he prays and submits to another, it shows a hierarchy rather than co-equality.

4. Jesus follows rather than initiates. In John 5:19, he says, "The Son can do nothing of himself..." This shows dependence; he acts only after seeing the Father act, which contradicts the idea of equality in action.

5. Mutual glorification doesn’t imply divinity. Allah glorifies Muhammad (pbuh), yet no Muslim considers him divine. In John 17:3, Jesus refers to the Father as the only true God, clearly excluding himself.

6. "By Allah’s permission" is the crucial phrase. Qur’an 3:49 and 5:110 emphasize that Jesus’ miracles, including creating the bird, only happened with Allah’s leave. Jesus shaped the clay, but it was Allah who gave it life.

7. Jesus didn’t possess divine autonomy. He didn’t create the clay, life, or the laws of nature. Without Allah’s permission, the clay remains just that—clay.

8. The China analogy doesn’t hold up. China funds, authorizes, and controls its projects. Jesus didn’t command divine resources; he was more like an engineer working under direct orders, not the source of those resources.

9. Jesus himself affirms he’s not God. "I can do nothing on my own" (John 5:30). That’s the voice of a prophet, not the Creator.

Response to