₦airaland Forum

Gabrielshow24:
Allah or Muhammad?🤨

And how is this fundamentally a problem?

Gabrielshow24:
Ah, so now we’re getting somewhere, are we? It’s interesting that you acknowledge the astonishment in both cases, but let’s not gloss over the elephant in the room: the fact that one version has Allah expressing astonishment while the other has Muhammad doing the same. That’s not just a minor detail; it’s a fundamental shift in meaning!

You ask whether this was a journal entry or a revelation. Well, if it were a diary entry, it would certainly explain the inconsistencies! But if these are supposed to be divine revelations, then we have a serious problem. How can we trust the integrity of a text that presents such divergent accounts of the same event?

You mention the preservation of different recitations over 1400 years as evidence of authenticity. But isn’t it curious that these variations lead to such significant differences in meaning? If the Quran were truly preserved word for word, we wouldn’t be having this conversation about who is astonished—Allah or Muhammad.

So, while you encourage me to use my brain, I suggest you do the same. Instead of trying to reconcile these discrepancies, perhaps it’s time to acknowledge that they raise more questions than they answer. After all, if the message can change so drastically between recitations, how can we be sure of its original intent?

Let’s not settle for half-hearted explanations when the stakes are so high. The integrity of the text deserves a more thorough examination than mere assertions of preservation!🤨

Let's agree my brain cannot decipher can you show me the fundamental shift in meaning and it's effect?

Gabrielshow24:
Even this is a pathetic attempt 🤨 to reconcile logically the two differences!

A fool can see the theme is on "astonishment" but who is really "astonished" is the question you have completely ignored, one you know undermines your point🤨!

Irrespective of whatsoever logical maneuvers you employ to satisfy traditional Muslim narratives, you only buttress my point that your "Quran " is not preserved!

From the visible arc of Uthman's burning of Qurans👀, to the supposed 7 qiraats along with all the Qurans that stems from them🤨 screams man-made!!!

Some of these Qurans have contradictory 'english' meanings🤔; in one version It says 'a thing', in another a totally different 'thing'. although you can argue that the intended meaning are the same🤨 which is in stark contrast to a "revelation revealed to be clear, decisive and explains all things" 👀

Let me know who exactly is astonished? 🤨
If Allah was " astonished " consider the slippery slope that leads to🤨 and if Muhammad was the one astonished then the other version is 'false'!

Good that you are getting somewhere and realizing how you have no point of argument or observation.

You clearly see that there is surprise in both cases about how people persist in disbelief despite clear evidence otherwise. Whether Allah expresses disapproving astonishment or the prophet pbuh is astonished, it doesn't alter what the astonishment is about.

Can I ask if this was a journal entry like a diary of prophet Muhammad pbuh or words revealed to him?

Do you not see the different recitations being preserved over the time of thereabout 1400 years?

If it wasn't preserved will you see this difference in recitation?


Please you have a brain, use it.

Gabrielshow24:
I am not like your prophet!

Surah 37:12.
In the hafs, Mohammed is the one doing the wondering while in the warsh it's Allah!

There also plethora of other discrepancies!
This is beyond dialectics!

This comes from someone with zero understanding of arabic language be it classical or the various dialects.

What really does Surah 37:12 refer to in it's entirety? Is it not astonishment at the disbelief and ridicule shown by those who deny the resurrection and mock the message?

In the Hafs version the prophet Muhammad pbuh is astonished and the Warsh version has it as Allah being astonished isn't this what you refer to? The primary cause of this difference are the verbs عَجِبْتَ (‘ajibta) in Hafs and عَجِبْتُ (‘ajibtu) in Warsh. Now let me ask you if you are familiar with native languages of Nigeria? You will know that depending on how it's pronounced a group of letters can mean different things even when spelt the same way. Dialect?

Now your contention is you are surprised (the prophet) and I am surprised (Allah) however both cases refer to some astonishment. Though in the latter case it is rhetorical and a show of disapproval.

Both recitations really capture the sheer disbelief of the Quraysh, and the message stays the same: their refusal to accept the truth is truly mind-boggling (astonishing)

Repeatedly blabbing, do present the exact Quran verses or you hide under ambiguity?

Gabrielshow24:
You totally ignored my point to focus on irregularities.

What you cited up there, is an example of the contextual differences that can be found in different Quranic versions one that goes beyond just linguistic variations!!!

I didn't say literally that you will find meet the bank manager 🤨, maybe as usual you didn't grab the context!!!

Perhaps like your prophet you waiting for other linguistic variations 🤨.

Contrary to your first paragraph, I decided to reply quotes that I haven't replied to, yours being one of them!!!

Kindly tell us how one revealed message resulted in different Quranic versions. 🤨

How did 'one to many' occur🤔 if truly God(Allah in your case) preserved it word for word👀?

Gabrielshow24:
Linguistic diversity won't change entire meaning of verses.

What you are alluding to is wrong.
Linguistic variations should only change pronunciations and words not entire context.

If truly your prophet said this, then he is a liar!
If I come to you and tell you, "Oh you didn't " Go to the bank and meet the bank manager 🤨 then all of a sudden it's written down that I said "go to the bank and meet the cleaner🙄" while another version says "Go and meet the bank manager at the town square🤨".

Do you see where I am getting with this?
Even if, I allow your pathetic excuse of Arabic diversity it shouldn't change the meaning that abrasively!!!

Some versions are so far apart that they beg the question 🤨.

Imagine, in one version it's Allah that his doing the wondering while in another version it's Mohammed's 🙄.

It just goes to show how inexact and illiterate your prophet was!!!

Well, he is not the only one to be blamed but also his companions 🤨.

This is evidence that Allah didn't preserve your Quran word for word🤔.
It's your pathetic cover up statement that fails miserably when tested!!!

Odiegwu!

It took you all of three months to try to understand what I wrote and you still don't?

Perhaps you should first give Quran verses in Arabic that support your argument. Where do we see things equivalent to meet the manager, meet the cleaner or meet the manager at the town square?


What do you understand by the meaning of the word COHESIVE?

Ubenedictus:
there was Christianity before Nicaea

Christianity transformed from a mix of various beliefs into a more cohesive faith following the First Council of Nicaea.

This shift led to the establishment of orthodox theology through the formulation of creeds.

Additionally, the structures of church hierarchy and governance were formalized.


Worship practices also became more standardized across different regions.

Over time, the religion began to separate itself more distinctly from Judaism.

Kingsempires:
well!! Their are some Muslim Friends who have explained those verses, verses like in the Quran chapter 9 they say that that is a war verse so this is were the problem is; most Muslim don't understand the meaning of the chapter because if they understand the chapter their will be no Islam terrorist or you we not see people killing people for not practicing Islam.


So what is my point, this particular chapter (surah 9) needs to be treated well. it needs to be taught well in the mosques, social media etc. because many Muslim has been mislead by this chapter. But the worst thing is that nobody is talking about it so that is why the rate of Muslim terrorism is increasing everyday.

I have watched some videos of Boko Haram killing people and be shouting "allah 'akbar. This is really insane.😏 so Muslims needs to do something about this chapter or verse if they say is a war verse.

In reality the world has gone wrong in pairing Islam with terrorism. This is quite a misnomer. That someone proclaims in arabic the praise of Allah and commits injustice should not be the yard stick. You must have heard of some so called terrorist that can neither pray nor recite Surah Fatiha (the opening). As I say in my earlier response to you many are too gullible to be deceived into associating what is not related. Islam and terrorism are parallels that cannot meet.

Surah At-Tawbah, which is Chapter 9 of the Quran, is often misunderstood by majority especially Christians because of its tough stance on warfare and non-Muslim groups.

There are several reasons for this misunderstanding, including the historical context, cherry-picking of quotes, and interpretations of "Jihad" that emphasize acceptable forms of warfare. Additionally, verses about mercy and forgiveness, along with the difference between "People of the Book" and "idolaters", play a significant role. Taking a deeper look at Surah At-Tawbah can really help clarify its meaning and offer a more balanced perspective.

Perhaps you can seek specific clarity about what you don't understand

Kingsempires:
So Ohyoudidnt what's is your point on this topic. Because all your talk on this thread I haven't seen your point, I still don't understand you concerning this thread

I am surprised you don't get it so much so you ask.

Where is it explicitly said in the Quran that non muslims should be murdered or beheaded?

Mischievous people illogically tie societal abnormality and inappropriateness to religion and the gullible majority believe this blindly without using their given thought.

AntlisIaam:
You never mentioned any Christian terrorist group, I exposed your lies when you tagged anti balaka as Christians terrorist group

Short term memory = 0

Not so short term is double zero for you.
Or is it deliberate lying or a deliuded fantasy memory of choice after taking ukpumiri.

Ohyoudidnt:
I see you are too uncivil to have conversations without showing your irresponsible unscrupulous nature.

Is this how you were raised, what you picked from society or the illusion you have about the way of life you uphold?

You are unable to show where any verse clearly says people are compelled to worship Allah who is in no way an Idol or forced into Islam. Obviously you are fund of making careless statement without valid proof.

You forget the Christian and Jewish terrorist groups for what reason?


1. The Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA) (Uganda, DRC, CAR, South Sudan)
2. Army of God (USA)
3. Phineas Priesthood (USA)
4. The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord (CSA) (USA)
5. Eastern Lightning (Church of Almighty God) (China)
6. National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT) (India)
7. Jewish Defense League (JDL) (USA, Israel)
8. Kahane Chai / Kach (Israel)
9. Brit HaKanaim (Israel)
10. Gush Emunim Underground (Israel)
11. Terror Against Terror (TNT) (Israel)
12. Bat Ayin Underground (Israel)

Or can you provide valid context of how the verses you share support your wrong stand?

Perhaps you should provide a Fatwa supported by true Islam that approves killing anyone for not practicing Islam that led to the killing of those referred to in that video

Ohyoudidnt:
Romancing or showing you the problem with using it as a reference?

OH I forget you lack a gumshion capable of logical reflection.



How do you rely on a source with inconsistent credibility?

You are not credible yourself.

A failure that cannot get better.

QED

Ohyoudidnt:
You are a failure
Cannot discern the truth from the lie

Internet or not.

QED

Your hero Anti-Balaka that are thieves

AntlisIaam:
I said name any Christian terrorist group


Is Anders Behring Breivik a Christian terrorist group? Use your senses nah

You see how you are babbling because you don't want to answer.

How many Christian terrorist groups did I mention?

Is Anders Behring Breivik a Christian terrorist?

If you won't answer this don't bother with a response

AntlisIaam:
We are discussing terrorist group where I asked you to name one Christian terrorist group, this made you to mentioned anti balaka whereas no where in the internet claimed that Anti balaka was a terrorist group.


For you now coming with Anders Behring Breivik, is Anders Behring Breivik a terrorist group? Did you even read the story of this guy before bringing it up here again? You will just open your rotted skull dey drop nonsense without adequate verification. The same you did with Anti balaka. Boya you think na moribund like you is Anti.islam

A terrorist group is made up of a number of terrorists yes?

Is Anders Brevik a terrorist?

Is that too had for you to answer or it's forbidden to you in Christianity?

AntlisIaam:
Are we discussing Anders Behring Breivik here or Anders Behring Breivik is a terrorist group?

Discussing terrorism innit? So you won't answer this?

AntlisIaam:
From your super story, where is it written that anti balaka was a terrorist group or Christian terrorist group terrorizing CAR?

Secondly, from your above super story, will you point to where it is written that Anti balaka was established in 2009 defending themselves against Séléka in the same year?

You are a shame to your family, generation and Islam at large. No room for glorifying taqqiya once Anti.islam is involved

Is Anders Behring Breivik a terrorist?

Answer sincerely then maybe we continue

AntlisIaam:
Answering question is haram for you but glorifying taqqiya is halal.

According to your ignorance, anti balaka was a terrorist group but you can't defend this from a realible source

Christians are terrorists like you slaves but till now, you never show one Christian terrorist group

Anti balaka was established in 2009 according to your stupid!ty, were they defending themselves against Séléka in the same year? No answer

Islam is a total disgrace and shame in your miserable life, even at this time of your assumed holy month, you are there elevating taqiyya to cover up your shame

Odiegwu! How can you contract yourself in one short sentence? I don't answer questions yet you establish I commit taqqiya?

How did you establish that? Oh I missed l that you don't even know the meaning of taqqiya for a moment.

Ohyoudidnt:
You are a failure
Cannot discern the truth from the lie

Internet or not.

QED

Your hero Anti-Balaka that are thieves

When something looks, acts and feels like something how can it be not that. Oh! another omission is you can't think for yourself but follow others and what they say. If you are male gender do you need someone to tell you?
That it's a hot afternoon or meal has to be told to you too.

When you cannot understand anything how can you differentiate between a president Bozizé supported Anti-Balaka since 2009 that transformed to a particular mission on Bozizé’s ouster in 2013. We're they thinking this will return an oppresove, unjust and irresponsible government? Go and sit down, take your medication, allow it work, get healed, think right and don't do psychotic drugs.

What has submission to the fact that there is a supreme creator and sustainer of all done to you? Do you not know that without the supreme enabling you wouldn't even be talk less of yapping your usual Dunning-Kruger and whatever other ailment induced statements.

Please take care of yourself before you loose yourself and permanently harm yourself and all around you.

You definitely feign ignorance of Anders Behring Breivik who will be framed as non Christian or suffering under an ailment that Christianity or the Christian Jesus didn't cure before he murdered 77 people mainly Muslims

AntlisIaam:
Indeed Islam has destroyed your life

Is this what you also see?

Ohyoudidnt:
You are a failure
Cannot discern the truth from the lie

Internet or not.

QED

Your hero Anti-Balaka that are thieves

AntlisIaam:
The answer are there that Anti balaka had been defending themselves against Séléka since 2009 right or your beloved site said anti balaka is a terrorist group? May camel urine heal your suffering

If that's what you see it, you have found your answer

AntlisIaam:
Still no answer for the second question, what is the essence of your existence if it is haram for you to answer questions


Till now you still never show one Christian terrorist group, can you see how dense you've been brainwashed as followers of Muhammad

But the answers are there, can't you read? Please scroll back and read

AntlisIaam:
If the above question is difficult for you to answer, let me ask another

Who started the conflict in CAR, Séléka or Anti balaka?

Simply answer yourself and agree with yourself

AntlisIaam:
And do they defend themselves against Séléka as at 2009?

You should be able to provide answer to this

Is Seleka the cause of insecurity the failed Bozize Francoise government encouraged?

AntlisIaam:
You should tell Catherine Samba to help you out with the question because you're the one making false allegations you couldn't defended


Your attention needed here, don't look away

According to your beloved site, are anti balaka defending themselves against Séléka as at 2009?

Emboldened misread by you. This text is not there.

Your hoolgan blood letting heroes; Anti-balaka, forned to provide security for a largely ineffective Bozize Francoise in 2009.

AntlisIaam:
What is the mission?

Would they called for reprisal attacked if you didn't wage war against them?

You said the same to IDF on Hamas, hypocrite is your watchword in Islam

By the way, won't you answer my question


According to your beloved site, are anti balaka defending themselves against Séléka as at 2009?

Why don't you ask Catherine Samba-Panza who made the statement?

AntlisIaam:
You tagged anti balaka a terrorist group which your own beloved site never called them to be, is that not stupidity at the highest level?

The anti-balaka have lost their sense of mission. They are now the ones who kill, who pillage, who are violent," she said

AntlisIaam:
You tagged anti balaka a terrorist group which your own beloved site never called them to be, is that not stupidity at the highest level?

I see you have experience to know the psychedelic properties of this and other psychotic substances.

Dumb addict

AntlisIaam:
Now that you are romancing with Wikipedia, Did you read this or you wish to look away?

Again, Anti balaka were formed to defend themselves against Séléka

Romancing or showing you the problem with using it as a reference?

OH I forget you lack a gumshion capable of logical reflection.

AntlisIaam:
Is clarification needed here too or why did you ignored it?

In March 2013, President Bozizé (a Christian) was overthrown by a coup during the Central African Republic Civil War by a mostly Muslim rebel coalition known as Séléka. The leader of the Séléka, Michel Djotodia, became the first Muslim president of the country.[12] With the disbanding of the army by Djotodia, many army members joined the militia, boosting their numbers and helping train them.


Is clarification also needed b4 you will answer my question?

According to your beloved site, are anti balaka defending themselves against Séléka as at 2009?

How do you rely on a source with inconsistent credibility?

You are not credible yourself.

A failure that cannot get better.

QED

AntlisIaam:
So according to your beloved site, they were defending themselves against Séléka as at 2009?

There are many questions you should ask yourself before displaying your ignoramus


Did you read the below or you only picked the one that you think will suit your shallowness

Faulty premise gives wrong conclusions.
You hold on to your lie that they were formed in response to Seleka when in fact the incompetent government of Françoise Bozizé led to their emergence.

They, Anti-Balaka later becoming the same bandits and thieves they were supposed to guard against.

AntlisIaam:
Here is another one you refused to reckon with

You don't see the problem with what you put up? Can you not read in bracket (clarification needed?)

Indeed a lot of help you need to deliver you of your dull ailment. School can be of no use.

A forcible conversion? Kai!

AntlisIaam:
What are your slave's masters in Séléka known for? Terrorism.. You are a shame and failure to humanity

Anti balaka was established to defend themselves against your killer Séléka, your brain ought to tell you that Séléka came before anti balaka, there won't be Anti balaka if not for your killer Séléka. I will make sure you regain your senses back by force by fire

From your regular weak source but adequate reference.

Unable to provide security throughout the remote areas of the country, President François Bozizé organized, self-protection groups in 2009 to combat crime on the village level; these took the name Antibalaka.

AntlisIaam:
Internet said a group was established to defend itself against another group terrorizing them, all your rotted brain could grab is that the group defending itself came before another group terrorizing them. Dude, who do you like this? Make you get sense slave

You are a failure
Cannot discern the truth from the lie

Internet or not.

QED

Your hero Anti-Balaka that are thieves

AntlisIaam:
Shey according to your gullible, Anti-islam came before Islam right or Anti-Crime existed before crime?

How would Anti-balaka came before Séléka when it was written all over the internet that they were established to defend themselves against Séléka

Islam has destroyed you, all you need now is to take your camel urine serious perhaps you will regain your senses back

Clap for yourself.

Anti - Islam is simply agsinst Islam. You try to put yourself in same light but euther the system doesn't allow you or you know better to give yourself the monikerAnt Lislaam.
What does this mean?
Ant li slaaam? Or how is it pronounced or broken down.

Anti balaka is against balaka but you failed to show balaka is equal to Seleka.

You have failed.

You are a failure.

QED

AntlisIaam:
Check this out too from your beloved site..

They called something ANTI still your rotted skull can't comprehend the meaning of this. Something that all sites said where established to defend themselves against Séléka will came before Séléka right? Dude, you are too dense to behold. Does ANTI-CRIME came before Crime or ANTI-ISLAM came before Islam?

Disgruntled elements from a removed ineffective government. If Bozize was on top of governing affairs there would have never been the need to rely on the likes af Anti-balaka to provide security.

The Anti-Balaka militia in the Central African Republic (CAR) gained prominence primarily because former President François Bozizé failed to ensure security and stability.

The origins of the Anti-Balaka movement can be linked to local self-defense groups that were initially established to safeguard villages from banditry and cattle theft. However, following Bozizé's overthrow in 2013 by the mostly Muslim Séléka rebel coalition led by Michel Djotodia, these groups transformed into a more structured and aggressive militia.

I cannot help you if you don't understand why you have anti tetanus toxoid, anti robbery for tetanus and robbery and you equate balaka to seleka.

AntlisIaam:
From the context as read in your attached picture, is it written therein that Anti-Balaka existed before 2013 or were first to attacked Séléka or established before Séléka?

To whom brain is given, sense is expected

In 2009, President Bozizé, unable to ensure security throughout the CAR, established loosely organised village self-protection groups that would combat bandits and other sources of insecurity on a local level.

These groups took on the moniker 'Antibalaka.' This is a created name in Sango, a local language, deriving from a mixture of 'anti-machete' and 'anti-AK' (referring to the AK-47 Kalashnikov rifle). The name implies power over machetes and guns. An assortment of charms, disguises, and trophies (often called "gris-gris" worn by the fighters are meant to provide immunity to the weapons of the enemy, a product of animist beliefs and practices that remain embedded in religious traditions in the country.

AntlisIaam:
Did you read this too from your beloved site? Your brain has been destroyed to comprend simple English

So with this and according to your ignorance, anti balaka came before Séléka right?

Alcoholics that like stout justify their actions by saying it gives blood.

Haha is drunkenness justifiable?

AntlisIaam:
Did you read this too from your beloved site? Your brain has been destroyed to comprend simple English

So with this and according to your ignorance, anti balaka came before Séléka right?

Point is Anti-Balaka existed earlier than 2013.

They are just greedy usurpers.

Some Antibalaka spokespeople claim to be setting up political parties to advocate their demands and interests. It is unclear how organised or sustainable these initiatives will be.

Meanwhile, atrocities continued to be committed against Central African Muslims; there were multiple reports of cannibalism, women and children were slaughtered, parents turned against children married to Muslims, people were tied together and thrown into rivers to drown, pulled off convoys as they fled and hacked to death.


See the actions of the hooligans you rever.

I know too that at the Eid in 2010 at the Mosque on rukuba road Muslims were attacked, killed and roasted by the 'Christian' indigenes