₦airaland Forum

lawani:
I have told you the real meaning of Oga, it means boss. Oga olopa is police boss. Oga tiisa can mean Principal and etc etc. All I know is that Ogie and Oga sound the same and how Ogie and Ovie came to be different is for you to go and research. How did Benin people came nt to be able to pronounce J and they are calling Deji of Akure the Udezi of Akure?. They are calling Bajulaiye meaning the King is supreme on Earth Bazulaiye which has no meaning?. You can go and research all those too. Language formation is very dynamic and it is not simple mathematics as you seem to think

the same with this topic, we are not the one spectating, let them judge

lawani:
I am an Ijesa person with origin from Ijero. I will never claim Ijero. I am bonafide Ijesa. No indigene of any Ondo town will say they are Benin people. They can have origin from there though

I have dealt enough with this argument, I have given you enough link and enough materials, I am not delving into this subject matter anymore

lawani:
Wherever you are is your own. Yoruba working in Benin city belong to Benin a d whatever they ask them to do is what they will do. That is how it has always been. A full city is always an advantage for the city. Osamuyi, Ogunmuyi, Famuyi are all Yoruba names. Osamuyi means the deity brings honor and no Yoruba will agree with you that it is not a Yoruba name

they do not belong to Benin city, they are only residents here, there is no indigenous Yoruba in Benin city

What about Odion, What about Uwoghiren, what about Ehioghiren and so on and so forth. Besides this is what Bradbury has to say about Binis in Ondo state

lawani:
Oye does not match Oche like Ogie matches Oga almost exactly. Oye in Yoruba means chieftaincy title which is not as high ranking as boss or king. OGA does not match Ovie and I also don't know the tonation of Ogie but I suspect it will match Oga but the two groups did not copy from each other. The words are primordial to the two languages. Even the Yoruba word Sanmo is similar to So in Ogiso a word that means King from the skies etc etc.

Iso and Sanmo is not similar by any stretch, stop making mockery of yourself and what you stand for

lawani:
Oye does not match Oche like Ogie matches Oga almost exactly. Oye in Yoruba means chieftaincy title which is not as high ranking as boss or king. OGA does not match Ovie and I also don't know the tonation of Ogie but I suspect it will match Oga but the two groups did not copy from each other. The words are primordial to the two languages. Even the Yoruba word Sanmo is similar to So in Ogiso a word that means King from the skies etc etc.

, the combined population of Esan together with Urhobo is more than Bini. And these three words(Ogie/OvieOjie) are all cognates of King or a ranking chief of his people. It has the same meaning as Oye, it also has the same meaning as Oche. And it totally matches with Oye and Oche. You cannot just pick that of the Bini which you earlier in argued is a small fraction of the Edoid and compare with a non related Oga. It is laughable, what will then happen to Ovie/Ojie that are cognates of Ogie. What will now happen to Oche and Oye that seem to align in essence and in meaning.

When you say Oga as a word, it is most likely a two person relationship, not like Oche/Oye/Ogie/Ovie/Ojie which when bestowed with the title, one is usually in charge of a community or a people. I am yet to see your linguistic backing

Your observation is definitely not in line with reality

lawani:
Ogaranya does not fit. Eze is totally different from Ogie and Oga by pronunciation. I am not going anywhere. What I pointed out is already accepted by linguists. YEAI have the same parent stock, so the group members are cousins. It is not a matter of debate but they are not the same language any more but now and then you can unearth the vocabs of the ancestor language. Agbala in Yoruba is mgbala in Igbo. Giripa is Dimkpa and many others. How do you explain that?. Those are vocabs of a language spoken over five thousand years ago or more.

what about Oche and Oye. Please post any excerpts which buttresses your point that what you just thought of three minutes ago has been established by linguists.

If at all Oga matches Ogie what about Ojie and Ovie, or do you think the Bini Ogie is the standard of king in the Edoid.

How does Oga matches Ovie. How then does Oga match Ojie how then Does Oga match Oche or Oye. But when you pit Oye and Oche side by side with Ovie and Ojie. You see corelation among Niger -Benue Congo group of languages which has a common origin

lawani:
If so it means that one is a recent migration but there are Edoid groups in the South west that were not settled from Benin just like Urhobo was not settled from Benin. People are always moving around. Nowadays, people have moved into Benin far more than Benin people have moved to other places.

a migration that happened before 1897, that’s far before the independence of Nigeria. The people would probably see the land as their own now. The migrations that would happen now in Benin would be one whereby one is conscious of their community because of the state of Origin and local government of origin consciousness in Nigeria today.

Even though you stay 30 years in Benin, you have a consciousness that you are not from Benin because of the state of origin, there are Hausas that have been here since the 1990s and late 1980s, they still visit their land intermittently with the consciousness of where they came from.

I gave two other suggestions which were ignored by you, of one whereby actual Bini people according to their history migrated to those areas,

And lastly the one of the trade party, you cannot really tell the one whose language is intelligible to Bini and the one that is not because you are not an Edo. It is for Edolites to go there and actually check if their dialects is intelligible to a great deal. There are actual Binis in Ondo state and it is not news. This is what Hans melzian has to say as it pertains to Binis in Ondo state

lawani:
Oga- Boss, Ogie- King is more similar than all your examples. Boss and King mean basically the same thing but your Ogie in Warri is obviously not from Yoruba speakers because Yoruba will never describe a King as Oga as it would be disrespectful. However Ogaomi will mean boss of the riverrine area similar to Ogieami that you said means King of the riverrine area. It is just to show that all YEAI became different by slowly drifting apart and acquiring new words and characteristics along the way.

my brother I know where you are going to, it is not the same, I am telling you from linguist perspective not your own logical perspective. Language does not evolve the way you feel it should. It is Ogie/Ovie/Ojie by the Edoid. Oye by the Yorubas, Oche and Eze by the Igbos, even though that of the Igbos has drifted slightly away

it is the middle pronunciations that matters the most, Ogiame- not Ogieami

Boss and King are starkly and essentially different

Oga That is even debatable might be from Ogaranya

lawani:
It just came to my head now. It can be true because all these languages descend from the same ancestor overtime

the one I have heard from linguist is the Yoruba Oye which means chief, the Igbo -Eze, the Edoid Ogie/Ovie/Ojie and the Idoma -Oche. This is more likely than the other one

lawani:
Proto Edoid settlements have been all over the place for thousands of years, maybe for ten thousand years but they were not Benin settlements. There is a quarter in Ido Ani speaking an Edoid language and maybe in the past they used to be larger than Benin city.

there is nothing like that my brother, they speak a corrupt version of Bini, their oral traditions states that those were actual migrations from Bini during the reign of the present dynasty. People were always leaving the city in droves, Ido-ani got thier fair share. Many of them still come to Bini today and Identify as such because their language and culture is more akin to Edo proper.

Also many of those settlements in ondo state actually came up when the Binis were fleeing the city in droves during the invasion of 1897 and many did not come back until the 1930s and 40s. Many more remained. It is not news, that is not proto-Edoid, that is Bini

Even in Akure and Ekiti, there were trade parties and many soldiers remained.

lawani:
Let me also chip in that the Edo word Ogie to mean King is not much different from the Yoruba word Oga to mean boss. Digging deep, most words of the YEAI are interlinked.

it is not my brother, you are not a linguist, don’t be confused, you have no proof

lawani:
Edo is not a dialect of Urhobo nor is Yoruba a dialect of the Yoruboid language in Enugu state. Igala is more of a dialect of Yoruba than Benin language is a dialect of Urhobo. By number one I mean the language with the highest number of speakers. I am sure Urhobo and Esan are more than Benin. Osamuyi is a Yoruba name and there are many similar Yoruba names but it can be possible to find Yoruba bearing Benin names, I have however never heard of any. Igala for instance have been described by linguists as varying only dialectically from Yoruba while no Edoid language has ever been described as a dialect of Benin language to my knowledge by linguists. Edonekhue are the Akure people from Benin.

You are right. The Edoid people of say Bayelsa state like Good luck Jonathan's people have nothing at all to do with the Benin empire which was a Yoruba empire. Those were Edoid cultures not influenced by the Yoruba at all. Why not say Benin is a dialect of Esan?. Once again it may be true but no linguists have described it like that that I know of. They describe them as separate languages

that is Bradbury’ work . Edo proper is Bini, it was written in 1952.


And besides I would want to know where you got the information that Esans are more than the Binis. even the Urhobos, there is no proof that they are more than the Binis even though I believe they(the Urhobos now are slightly more. I was eating when you wrote this, I could not respond to you properly .

Our musicians in Bini go to Esan land, aside Bini territory to perform.that is because we speak related dialect. I have not seen them go to Etsako or Urhobo to perform. Except maybe that particular party, they have many Bini speakers there.

And their musicians come Into perform in our land too. And it very easy for the Esan people to assimilate in Benin or to learn the Bini dialect. We have many of them in our music and movie industry because we speak related dialects.

There are many collaborations in Movies that has been done by the Bini movie industry, whereby the Esans were allowed to speak their dialects and Bini and Esan people watching such movie have understanding of each of these dialects to al large extent. But I have never seen one of Bini and Etsako or Bini and Urhobo even though they are both Edoid, that should tell you she is not drunk or Bradbury is not drunk.

Is it the Music industry, there have been collabo by Esan and Bini artists or musicians live on stage, whereby people were present in such events and there was no raise of an eyebrow. But I have not seen a Bini and an Urhobo musician or a Bini and an Etsako musician collabo on stage even though they are both Edoid languages.

Lastly there is a saying in Benin, Edo na ma ze se ore Esan which directly translates to mean Benin not spoken well is Esan. Which further portends to mean that it is intelligible but not sweet or palatable to the Bini’s man ear. That is not how he expects his Edo to be

Osamuyimen, the short form is Osamuyi. is a Bini name, it means the lord has given me honour. Even Odion etc go to Owo, There are Bini people in Ondo state and it is not news. Go to Akure, Idoani, Igbora oke etc . And Irele and ose Lgas. They still manage to speak a corrupt version of Edo. Even in Okelusen which is now in Ondo state. They still manage to speak a corrupt version of Edo.

If they spoke Edo, as we have confirmed it was spoken, it was never a Yoruba empire

lawani:
I have actually heard somebody make a similar claim online but not a linguist. I believe it is possibly true just the same way Urhobo and one other language that I can't remember the name are said to be basically thesame people who identify differently.

what i sent to you was the Bini dictionary written in 1937 by Hans melzian it is not a claim, she actually studied them

lawani:
Edo is not a dialect of Urhobo nor is Yoruba a dialect of the Yoruboid language in Enugu state. Igala is more of a dialect of Yoruba than Benin language is a dialect of Urhobo. By number one I mean the language with the highest number of speakers. I am sure Urhobo and Esan are more than Benin. Osamuyi is a Yoruba name and there are many similar Yoruba names but it can be possible to find Yoruba bearing Benin names, I have however never heard of any. Igala for instance have been described by linguists as varying only dialectically from Yoruba while no Edoid language has ever been described as a dialect of Benin language to my knowledge by linguists. Edonekhue are the Akure people from Benin.

You are right. The Edoid people of say Bayelsa state like Good luck Jonathan's people have nothing at all to do with the Benin empire which was a Yoruba empire. Those were Edoid cultures not influenced by the Yoruba at all. Why not say Benin is a dialect of Esan?. Once again it may be true but no linguists have described it like that that I know of. They describe them as separate languages

the difference of Esan and Bini is more of a cultural thing than a language thing. When you add the number of Esan and Bini that are members of the same language, they are more than the Urhobos

I did not write that excerpt I gave to you, moreover that is not the meat of the matter, as what I am driving at is that Esan and Bini speak the same language, if you talking strictly about language and number of speakers, you have to add the Esan and Bini population together

lawani:
Most Afemmai that I know also see themselves as Yoruba despite also being Afemmai but it may not be all Afemmai of course. You can be any culture you are used to that you grew up with. What I mean is that Benin bear Yoruba names while Yoruba don't bear Benin names. Then Yoruba is the biggest or number one Yoruboid language while Edo is not the number one or even number two Edoid language. You understand?.

the most you know are a fraction and we can’t judge based on that, maybe it is to curry Favour from you, majority of Afenmai people are in Edo state. And most of them might be Akoko Edo or Owan.

What do you mean Yoruba don’t bear Bini names, go to Akure, Idoani and see Bini names, go and see Bini names like Osamuyi etc and they are Yorubas. Have you heard of the term Edo’ne’khue

I still do not understand what you mean by number 2 or number one Edoid language, most of these Edoid languages in Edoid state were dialects of Bini and so would have been more intelligible to Bini more than this. I have shown you an excerpt which posit that Esan till today is still a dialect of Bini


A minute part of Edoid bearing Yoruba names or speaking Yoruba today is because we border Yoruba people, if Edoid was located around rivers state, no Edoid would have been speaking Yoruba today

lawani:
There are also some in the same Anioma who claim to have migrated from Ilesa, some are Igalas too. What can not be denied is they got there through the territory of the old Benin empire. When they got there or how I don't know and I choose to believe them. The Owa Atakunmosa of Ijesa spent over sixty years abroad before mounting the throne and he must have gone through Benin territory. The Edoid people surrounding Benin like the Afemai are also Yoruba people who all speak Yoruba and bear Yoruba names. Even Benin people bear Yoruba names. So it is clear that the Edo or current Benin language was a minor language in the Benin empire and could not have possibly been the language of government business. It is also not the number one Edoid language. I am not going to argue with anybody about their origin

What do you mean they got there through the territory of the old Benin empire, would they not still migrate there, if there was no empire? Besides this is the map of Nigeria, we are not certain they got in through Bini directly, they might have entered Delta directly through Ondo. What does it matter if some Igalas are in Delta, some are in Edo too. Some in Nsukka. Kogi also has a tiny border with Delta.

The Edoid people surrounding Bini are not the Afemai, the Afemai are to the north, you will get to the north of Benin before you find the Esans, then the north of Esan before you get the Afemai,

Nobody is fanning the embers of superiority, Edo south which is 95 percent Bini territory is what is synonymous with the Kingdom, and that is the [b][/b]language spoken by the capital city today, and that is the language that was spoken in History by the Oba, the capital city, and the other surrounding Bini communities.

In as much as we have similarities as group of Edo languages, we also have our differences, the Bini would call king Ogie, The Esans Would call it Ojie, the Urhobos would call it Ovie, that is an undeniable proof that it is a Bini relic that was bestowed on the Itsekiri monarch.

If number one Edo language to you means the Language spoken by the Oba and the capital city and surrounding communities, then it is

The Afemai people do not all speak Yoruba and bear Yoruba names, it is only those at the periphery or frontier areas that speak Yoruba alongside with their first Afemai language. It is a norm anywhere in the world, that frontier areas or border areas are bilingual, an Etsako man whose community does not border any Yoruba community, would not speak Yoruba alongside with his Etsako and would also have no need for a Yoruba name. The same with an Owan man,

Any Edo man from whichever divide either Bini, Esan, Owan Etsako , etc that speak Yoruba or bear Yoruba names is either the mother is Yoruba, or the person grew up in Yoruba land, or his community in Edo state directly borders yoruba land. If these three are absent, it is not possible for an Edo man from whichever divide to bear Yoruba names or speak Yoruba.
And at most the people that bear these Yoruba names from the general Edoid (I mean Bini, Esan, Etsako, Owan and Akoko Edo, with most of them being from Akoko Edo because they have a large border with yoruba)are not more than 15 to 20 percent of the total population

lawani:
100,000 is not small though I don't know their population. Some of the most successful sovereign nations on a per Capita basis are not up to that

I have not said it is small. I never said it was up to, I gave an “at best” situation. The fact that they speak Yoruba does not strengthen your point that Yoruba was spoken in the empire. They already gave their pedigree in their historical tales, so what else do you need. That is the sole reason why they speak Yoruba out of the over 2 million people in the Anioma area. They migrated there, simple and short

lawani:
I don't have access to the paper but I carry such information in my head permanently but you are free to disbelieve me. I am sorry for the slight mistake in spelling the Edoid Ogotun but it is the same as the Yoruba one. Joseph is Yusuf and Joshua is Yashua. Lamurudu is Nimrod. It is the language of the pronounces that differs.
The Olukumi people are around five communities but Ugbodumila is the biggest. They are cut off from other Yoruba people by Edoid groups and obviously they were a part of the old Benin empire since even Akure and some Ekiti were part too or are you debating that?. The Olukumi are not small in population or achievement. Only that their place was not developed into a city and they are scattered as a result. They speak both Yoruba and Igbo What you need to know is that it was impossible to administer the Benin empire with Edo language. That is not at all possible. You might want to say the capital spoke Edo and Yoruba but you would be wrong. Edo speaking in the capital started only after the decline of the empire and that is the minimum that should be expected. I am only fighting this battle to set the records straight because if something is A it will be wrong to describe it for posterity as B That is the issue. Focus on propagating the new Benin and not on reinventing or rewriting history

please I would disbelieve you, Osadebe is not Osadebawmen because they are similar, they cannot be more than 100,000 that is only a fraction when compared to the Anioma population That is over 2 million

What you should be canvassing for is that the Oba and the capital people also spoke Yoruba, if at all or if any,I would reluctantly agree but that Bini was well known a language and was spoken by the Oba and the people in the Capital is not in doubt. I am not wrong, the Olu of Itsekiri goes by the Ogiame tsuo and the word is a direct relic from Benin or Edo That’s an undiluted proof, how did he get it since he was a son of the Oba. And they never spoke Bini or Edo

lawani:
You are not well brought up at all. The British did not know the Benin empire at all because when the British became a force in West Africa, Benin was under Akure or so

if I ask you to provide evidence now for this, you would say you don’t have access to it, that you just carry the information in your head, I am beginning to think Lawani is Olu but is okay, you appear to be a comedian as you bring each of your post out

lawani:
But there is no way a country can be run without a principal language of business. Nigeria has many languages and is multilingual but English is the lingua franca for state. In the Hellenistic world, it was Greek and everybody learnt it, for Rome, it was Latin, for the Ottoman Turks, it was Arabic, for the Persian empire, they had their language, for the British empire it was English but Norman French was spoken in English courts and it had a lot of influence on modern English. I daresay the British empire might have been French speaking if not that the British and not their government built the empire themselves with corporations but till today members of the House of Windsor learn French at home and English is most influenced by Norman French because of that. They share almost identical vocabulary. The Sokoto caliphate spoke Hausa, the Oyo spoke Yoruba. The Benin, Ijesa, Ijebu spoke their dialects of Yoruba which was mutually intelligible. Benin Yoruba is like Owo or Itsekiri, Ilaje etc. In the Benin empire, the capital spoke Yoruba and all the major towns but there were non Yoruba speaking enclaves that were tributaries but it appears they were loosely attached. The Dahomey people who were part of Oyo speak Yoruba till today along with Fon and French. European nobles never had a common language. Where are you reading your history from?. What is correct is that some of them were multilingual due to intermarriages. England has had a King that spoke only German originally but he was a descendant of the house of Windsor. If you say franca means french does franchise mean French too?. It may be so but it does not mean all European nobles spoke French. English nobles spoke French only because William the Norman spoke only French and he was a French man and founder of the house of Windsor. Not all European nobility were founded from France and even William the Norman was French of Viking descent. Once again there is no country where multiple languages are spoken as language of the capital or of business. There is always a language that high ranking people must understand and for the Benin empire, it was Yoruba. You don't need to have a school system to have an official language. Official language is language of courts, tax collectors, soldiers and etc, other people will be left alone so far they remain compliant with taxes. People then in the Benin suburbs were left alone, however they are the actual owners of the land of the capital but they were not the ones that built the empire and the Ogba, Ikwerre, Onitsha and etc people descend in the main from the Yoruba speaking Benin capital though obviously some people from the suburbs would be moving with them but communication with headquarters will be in Yoruba. I have read Portuguese accounts of Yoruba prayers to Imale okun in the Benin capital. It was rendered Mo be o, mo be o, umale okun, mo be o...I beseech you umale okun...while pouring offering on the ground. Is that Edo language?. If it is, it is also everyday Yoruba etc etc

is the word Ogiame Yoruba, that is the title of the Itsekiri monarch, if the city and even the palace that sent him out did not speak Bini or Edo, how then did he come up with such titles . The Oba and the city people has always in time past spoke undiluted sweet Bini


Please I would relish those Portuguese accounts if you still have access to them

lawani:
It was actually from an article in the papers written by a Benin elder that I knew the meaning of Agenebode. He explained that it means Ago onibode meaning outpost of the sentry and that is the name given by Yoruba people though it is not a Yoruba town. It is just like Ago Iwoye and other Ago like that. The same is true for Ughotoun which is just a wrong spelling of Ogotun which is a town in Ekiti. Ogotun is the mythical city of Olodumare which is why Olodumare is called Agotun. I did not give any Yoruba meaning to Onitsha but Onitsha people themselves say they came from Benin and Dr Emeagwali said decades ago when an old Onitsha man spoke the language of the ancestors, no one present could understand. What other language can it be more than a Yoruba dialect since a few miles away Ugbodumila still speak pure Yoruba. Those are my points.

Do you still have access to the paper? Even the one that buttresses same for Ughoton that is the spelling, not the one you wrote up there.

If I can access the materials, I don’t have any issue . I am just against making claims that one cannot back up with proof.

If I am to say it out tomorrow, that Agenebode and Ughoton are Yoruba named, I have to be able to provide the sources you provided here to back it up else no one will take me serious from the academic community.

I would need it, thank you

Ugbodumila is one of the over 100Anioma towns, and it is only that community in that axis of a stretch of 6000 km square, that speak Yoruba. They migrated there independently, I don’t really know how they share border with Ondo state or if they share border with her, Ondo is next door neighbor to Edo and I know Ondo certainly borders Delta state too.

If they say they migrated from Owo according to their migration tales, I don’t think it is out of place migration from Owo to Benin then to Delta, or from Ondo to Delta whichever route they took. Their language would certainly be akin to the people of Owo regardless of where they now settle. In that same Anioma, a Bini dialect with about 90 percent intelligibility rate with the one spoken in Edo south is spoken, (oza nogogo), would I now say because Oza- nogogo speak Bini, then the whole of Anioma must have spoken Bini in time past.

Ugbodumila speaking Yoruba is one borne out of migration from their parent stock to now settle in the midst of strange groups, and nothing more

Jarchi:



° Brodaman, May Pro Olotuah soul rest in perfect peace, a great lecturer.
If you want to edit the population, you need the registered body (cenus board) citation to do that, the population we have now is the perceived so I guess why the last census was adopted. It is editable though might be subject to review. I hope the new census is done sha °
***Jarchi***

The figures in that journal is that of 2006 census, at the tale end of that journal material, there is a reference which state that the national census population board of Benin city was consulted.

The one on Wikipedia was placed there with no source whatsoever, and the person claimed it is the 2006 census, where there is no article to back up that claim. It seem like you did not check the journal. Go and check it, download it, . Page 23 and see for yourself , Thank God the person who wrote it is reputable and you seem to know the person

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/330876121_Assessing_Residents

lawani:
Are you educated at all?. I gave you academic proofs of things still existing today, what evidence more valid than that do you want?. I did not download anything from the internet. Ogotun, Agenebode, Ugbodumila and Onitsha are living things. How can you say they need to be proved and then claim you are an academic?. Esan is an Edoid language under the YEAI. It is more or let us say as different from Benin language as Oyo is different from Igala. The L1 languages of Anioma are Igbo, Yoruba (Olukunmi) and Igala. There are no Edoid languages there at all. Edo is restricted to Benin city. Edo was a provincial language of the empire, spoken in the suburbs of the capital in the past but now it is the language of Benin city but it was never the language of the Benin empire but the people that invited the Yoruba there were Edo and they renamed their capital to Ife Ibinu which later became Benin.

you did not give any academic proofs, the interpretation you gave for Agenebode and Ughoton, as I said before, are clearly out of place, worst still, you have no lettered proof to back up your interpretations

you can give several interpretations to a word you feel you know in another persons tribe. I gave an example of Osadebe- Igbo, Osadebawmen-Bini which many persons thought were similar before now.

it is left for the tribal people to say if it is correct or not, Ughoton and Agenobode do not speak Yoruba, and those interpretations you have are not in tune with reality.

Ugbodumila is clearly Yoruba, and they have tales of migrations from Owo.

Redbonesmith has clearly debunked the Yoruba meaning you guys gave to Onitsha before now.

Esan and Bini are both dialects of the same language, Edo was not restricted to Benin city now, Ughoton you gave a meaning not in tandem with reality is a Bini settlement. And is not in anyway close to the capital, even till date, it has still not been eaten by the capital, there are some settlements that speak Bini that are farther from Bini more than Akure is to Ado Ekiti, Edo or Bini is a full tribe, with hundreds of towns and villages aside Benin city. Worthy mention of them is Udo that is 30 miles away from the city, Ugo -82 kilometers away from the city, Urhonigbe- 120 kilometers away from the city and they are all Bini speaking settlements

Agenebode is an Etsako settlement. You have to ask the Etsako people the meaning of Agenebode and not assume the meaning.

It has always been the language of the capital and other Bini settlements in the Capital , if not how else would the Itsekiri monarch that migrated from the city and even the royal palace get the name Ogiame- a trademark Bini title in the Edoid which directly translates to King over the riverine areas

Jarchi:



° Brodaman, so why haven't you edited it since anyone could edit wiki?°
***Jarchi***

my brother I sincerely do not know how to do it because you have to add the reference to enable credibility

And the one there says citation needed that is there is no reference to back it up and I have a journal that says otherwise

The numbers I have on that journal is 25 % bigger than what is on wiki

The other four references are for other stuffs written about Bini, the reference for the population the guy placed there is clearly lacking, that is why citation needed is there “jarchi

If you know how to and can help me change it please do,

Assessing Resident Satisfaction with Planning and Neighborhood facilities of Some Public Housing Estates in Benin city, Nigeria

Journal of Educational and Social Research

By Kingsley Okechukwu Dimuna
Department of Architecture
Ambrose Alli University
Ekpoma, Nigeria

And Abiodun Olukayodeh Olotuah
Department of Architecture
Federal University of Technology
Akure, Nigeria

Page 23.

It was stated that in the 2006 census, Benin city’s population was 1,346,703 but what is on Wikipedia is about 25% lesser than the actual population of Bini city in 2006 worst still with no source whatsoever.

This is a link where you can download the write up

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/330876121_Assessing_Residents

Jarchi:



° Brodaman, the question now is who wrote this wiki and if wiki dey lie? Wiki one of the most trusted resources, plenty thesis go don fail be that. Read wiki first, don't quote me or ask me any question, I'm just quoting a reference°
***Jarchi***

nobody or lecturer will collect wiki from you as a worthy source of information, no one my brother, anyone quoting wiki is a neophyte

Jarchi:



° Brodaman, See what wiki has to say °
***Jarchi***

Anyone using wiki as proof is not lettered, anybody can edit Wikipedia, there seem to be a Yoruba infusion into Benin in order to steal Bini’s glory. see someone interpreting Ughoton as Ughotoun-he calls it the city of Eledumare, One of our brother raised alarm that according to the short history of Benin written by Egharevba, the Edo version nowhere was it mentioned that the Heads of past Oba’s of Benin was taken to Ife, that it was after it was interpreted, that was when they now introduce that theory.

And besides I have raised alarm twice here on nairaland about the false population of Bini on Wikipedia on nairaland here. First, the population of Benin city on Wikipedia is wrong, the person placed wrong figure there with no proof whatsoever, tomorrow a neophyte would go on to that site and quote that figure

Yesterday it was just the population of Ikpoba Okha, that is also wrong, and has no foundation that I found yesterday. Anyone who will quote Wikipedia as is major source of information is allergic to research

lawani:
Do you have any material for an Edo speaking empire?. I have given you names of Benin towns established from the capital and the fact that the whole place is hemmed in by Yoruba speaking communities that are not even contiguous with each other or with the rest of Yoruba land and I have pointed out that for thousands of years Edo was spoken only in the Benin suburbs and is local only to Benin today with communities two miles away not able to understand the current Benin language. What other material do you need again?. You have Yoruba deities and have Ifa and Ogboni derived from the Yoruba etc though they say Ogboni was recently introduced. However today Benin is Edo and it is okay like that but history should be stated correctly.

Those your interpretations does not cut it, anybody can give interpretation to any word that seem similar in his language but it does not cut it. It is just like saying because the Benin Osadebawmen and the Igbo Osadebe look alike, I would want to give my own language interpretation to it because they look similar. You have to show me a lettered proof to back up your claims that those are the translations.

Please list these Yoruba communities that the whole place is hemmed in that are not contiguous with each other


Please give any proof that supports your assertion that for thousands of years the Bini language was spoken in the suburbs and communities two miles away were not able to understand the language, and what were those communities please?

Ifa and Ogboni is a very recent trend, and it still a group of the very select few. We do not use Ifa the way you guys use it in Yoruba land. 99 percent of Edos do not know this Ifa and do not have need for it

What you call Yoruba gods is arguable, and it might as well have been borrowed from neighbor Yoruba tribes in Ondo state.

lawani:
The capital of Benin empire was a Yoruba city of around 50k people and it was illegal to speak any language in the city other than Yoruba but Edo was maintained in the suburbs outside the palace walls. Edo was not spoken outside that area for thousands of years before colonisation but Yoruba is spoken up to Onitsha in the past while it is still spoken in Ugbodu Delta state today and these are evidences of Benin being a Yoruba empire with Yoruba lingua franca and other provincial languages like Edo. It was Edo people themselves that invited the Yoruba to be administering them according to the direction of their oracle. These Yorubas established towns and gave them Yoruba names like Ago onibode ie Agenebode a sentry post, also Ughotoun which is Ogotun the Yoruba city of Olodumare. Benin empire could not have been possible without the Yoruba language and this is not even debatable as the language still transcends that territory even today and all European records show Yoruba being spoken in the capital. Edo people entered the city when the empire fell and the bulk of the original Benin elite left the capital in large numbers according to an account I read. However today the Benin King is Edo and that is okay but arguing about something that can't be denied is not academic. The capital and the empire was Yoruba or was it Edo language that was being used as lingua franca? Which language was lingua franca? because Edo today can't be understood next door to Benin city. Albeit you can keep your narrative but it can be very annoying. It is illiteracy because the facts speak for itself.

please can you drop some materials that supports your argument of a Yoruba speaking empire. I would relish it, thank you

Who dae do this thing, is someone consciously trying to downplay the population of the Binis. Estimated 301,000 in 2023 when she has a voter’s registration figure of 310,000 in 2020 and has since gone beyond that with the 2022/2023 voter’s registration,

This same local government was 372,080 according to the 2006 census. All files as it pertains to the 2006 census figures of local government in Edo state show this local government to be 372,080 in 2006 census. So on what basis is the idiot estimating ?

Curse777:
.

if these people can refine oil why not we

Igboid:
I don't think so.
Igbos generally have a live and let live mindset. They will never force their culture on you, infact, they will like to remain distinct from you so that they can always show they are not same as you. Igbo culture can be segregating rather than assimilating, everything is built on Umunna and you can only be a member by biology. This is why many non Igbos resent Igbos. When you are around Ndiigbo, you will always be constantly reminded that you are not an Igbo. It's not even subtle, it's usually blatant. Once a non Igbo experience the non inclusive nature of Igbo tradition towards non members, they tag it Igbo Tribalism and then develop hate for the Igbo. When in truth, the Igbo just want to be Igbo and don't want a foreign body in their affairs, neither will they want to be involved in yours. That's how Igbo Society is.
If Igbanke were of purely Edoid stock, they will remain Edoid speaking till today, irrespective of boundaries they have with Ika speaking towns.
In Anioma we have Odiani ( Yoruba speakers) are surrounded by Enuani Igbo speaking towns yet they retained their Yoruba dialect. We have Ebu too, they speak Igala as mother tongue and Enuani as second language.
In Ebonyi we have the Orring communities totally surrounded by Igbo speaking Ebonyi groups.
The Orring still speak Orring as mother tongue and Igbo as second language.

Igbanke is Igbo speaking because they are founded by Igbo speaking people. A few Bini migrants might have settled among them, but they were insignificant in number and were assimilated by the majority of the Igbos on ground.
Igbanke bear Bini surnames at times because of suffocating pressure applied on the people by Binis in their attempts to assimilate them.
For years Igbanke people struggled to get LG identification certificate from their LG headquarters because the Edos in charge there insist their name is Igboid and must be changed to a befitting Edoid one before handing out the certificates.
Many Igbanke also changed their Igboid names to Edoid ones during the civil war and post civil war to avoid being persecuted as Ibos!
With the depotic strangling effect of Bini on Igbanke neck, it's a miracle they have retained their Igbo dialect this far. It goes to show you how difficult it is to eradicate a people language or to make them drop it for yours even when under duress, let alone when no such empire influence or pressure exists.
This makes nonsense of the stories of Igbo speaking groups who claim to have been influenced by Igbos to drop their original non Igbo languages for Igbo one. That is impossible when you realize that not even Bini with an empire could achieve such language change on a people, not even Fulani rulers in Ilorin could change the Yoruba language of native Yorubas of Ilorin, let alone Igbos who had no such Empire or power.
It's a fantasy stories that expose deep sitted inferiority complex of Igbo speaking groups that parrot such irrational stories.

My brother, I am not disputing the fact that it was founded by Igbo brethren.

But what I am opining is this, if it was bounded on two fronts by two larger Bini communities in the local government council, and maybe a fairly larger one on another front. It would have been eaten up or undoubtedly bilingual today as a whole in order for them to survive, since they will be interacting with their neighbors everyday, and maybe they will identify as Edos today

It would have been altered beyond the way it is to an igboid language, it is not up to them, it would just be an unconscious act. Just the way Usen and Utesse were altered on the western flank because they communed with their immediate bordered Edo neighbors everyday.(Usen speak both Usen and Bini and they identify as Binis today. Utesse speak a heavy mixture of Bini and Yoruba that seem to have evolved into a distinct language not belonging to any of the two. And the density on the western frontiers is considerably lesser than as it is on the eastern Bini frontiers. What people don’t seem to know is that when people say Igbanke is in Edo State and they manage to retain their language, it passes of a deceptive note to the one that is less informed. they are only just in Edo state, Edo south precisely, but they are not bordered by Bini/Edo people.

Their first thought would be that oh not knowing that on all fronts they are not even bordered by Edo people


The local government identification thing is not enough to change anything, we are talking about consistent communication among direct neighbors for centuries

Some of the Bini surnames in Ika proper, where are they now from, are we going to delude ourselves that the majority of the Bini sounding surnames in Igbanke came up as a result of the oppression at the Lga office?

Let me tell you on good note, I have met many Igbankes both men and women. Many at the university of Benin (lecturers and students alike)and several other places. You know those things our parents use to do those days. When they notice that a visitor from another tribe is around, and they want to discuss with their children something secret, they discuss in their native language. As a Bini man I have learnt not to try that with an Igbanke man. Because many times I was always in for a shocker