₦airaland Forum

davidylan: This makes no sense. Transformation is a PROCESS, transgene is a NAME that describes the gene involved in the process of transformation.

Read before posting.

It is one thing that you are trying to protect your image, that is understandable, it is another thing that your are rejecting simple fact. This is transformation according to encarta: genetic change: a permanent change in the genetic makeup of a cell when it acquires foreign DNA
Microsoft® Encarta® 2009. © 1993-2008 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Encarta (written by professors and researcher) cannot be wrong, or maybe i should say, you cannot know it more than those who coined the term.

chukkynwob: Try and keep up! Did I say energy can be created? I refuted your claim that by seeing a lightening bolt you have seen energy. That is a false statement

Tell, what do i see when i see lightening? Why can i store lightening and use it to power my computer later? Tell me the true statement mr. engr

davidylan: Wikipedia hasnt misled me. that is a biological fact... transgenes do occur in nature.

i have told you that what you call transgene is called transformation. Its is how non-Pneumonia causing bacteria can become Pneumonia causing bacteria if it is inserted in Pneumonia causing bacteria's environment. It is taking up DNA material from your environment, it is not called transgene, it is called transformation.

davidylan: That is quite daft. homologous recombination can and does occur without human interference. Infact homologous recombination has been postulated as evidence for evolution.

By saying this, you are right. But we are not talking about meiosis right now, we are talking about "changes in bacteria", dont forget that.

After showing you verified definition (written by professors and researchers) on encarta and you disagree to accept that, like you did all my theories, i have nothing more to say on transgenic properties.

chukkynwob: You are showing your ignorance again in a profession you know nothing about.....the device you are typing with was not engineered by theories but by application of theories and before you can apply a theory you have to understand the theory. P:S I can get an advance degree in physics but a physicist cannot purse an advanced engineering degree, ever wonder why?

I must have hurt you. Sorry.

Tell me, If energy can be created, why do we have limited types of energy?

davidylan: you are not very bright... again i QUOTE from wikipedia - A transgene is a gene or genetic material that has been transferred naturally[1] or by any of a number of genetic engineering techniques from one organism to another.

wikipedia must have misled you.

Let me quote from Encarta : transgene - gene transferred to other organism: a gene transferred from one organism to another

Microsoft® Encarta® 2009. © 1993-2008 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Transgenic: 1. with genes from different species: describes an animal or plant that contains genes from a different species, transferred using the techniques of genetic modification
2. involving transfer of genetic material: describes the technique of transferring genetic material from one organism into the DNA of another




Microsoft® Encarta® 2009. © 1993-2008 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Now, how can you use technique of DNA modification if you are not intelligent?

davidylan: you understand that extrapolation is not science right?



I will not debate with an obvious illiterate... here are 2 papers to help you.

Bacterial gene transfer by natural genetic transformation in the environment

Naturally occurring horizontal gene transfer and homologous recombination in Mycobacterium

YOU HAVE MIXED IT ALL UP. THE PROPERTY YOU LINKED ABOVE IS CALLED TRANSFORMATION (process of bacteria changing to different strains by acquiring genetic particles from their environment) NOT TRANSGENE. You are not a geneticist so i forgive you.

By mentioning "recombination", you have made it obvious it has to include human intelligence, if not who will be recombining. This things are out of your ken, they are my daily work. so humble yourself before me.

chukkynwob: On the issue of energy may i remind you that I am a qualified electrical and electronics engineer

sorry but that only makes you an electrician, probably a radionic, or a mechanic or even a tv repairer. That doesnt make you a scientist. You have to be a physicist before you can qualify to talk about energy with me.

chukkynwob: Do you see energy? do you touch energy? you can't touch electric energy, you see the effects, you can't hold potential energy you feel the potential, you can not hold kinetic energy..... Prof.OOman no one has seen energy it

quoting wikipedia' "In physics, energy is an indirectly observed quantity which comes in many forms, such as kinetic energy, potential energy, radiant energy, and many others; which are listed in this summary article. This is a major topic in science and technology and this article gives an overview of its major aspects, and provides links to the many specific articles about energy in its different forms and contexts.
The question "what is energy?" is difficult to answer in a simple, intuitive way, although energy can be rigorously defined in theoretical physics. In the words of Richard Feynman, "It is important to realize that in physics today, we have no knowledge what energy is. We do not have a picture that energy comes in little blobs of a definite amount.".[1]"

Your arguments are accurate. Have you seen lightening before, then you are seen energy, have you heard thunder before, then you have heard energy, have you held anything before, then you have held energy, because everything is composed of energy.

It is true that energy is broad, but a simple law remains valid, it cannot be created or destroyed.

davidylan: Ok this is quite daft. Where you present BEFORE the big b.ang? So how is it "verified evidence" that energy has ALWAYS existed?

You seem not to understand what evidence means anymore. when a particular matter behaves in the same way always, it becomes a law. Let me ask you, have you destroyed energy before, have you created one?

davidylan: This is quite ignorant. Here is the simple explanation for a transgene from wikipedia - A transgene is a gene or genetic material that has been transferred naturally or by any of a number of genetic engineering techniques from one organism to another.

So how can you say transgenic mice can not occur in nature? Isnt genetic transfer one of the scientific "evidences" for evolution?

How can a geneticist not know this?

Transgenes are not "naturally" transferred, they are artificially transferred, by humans. You can as well say that because some bacteria can produce insulin, therefore they have the natural genes to produce insulin. Bactria can produce human proteins, but they have to be engineered. For anything to be transgenic at all, it has to be engineered.

Do you even understand the english meaning of the word "transgene" it means genes from different source (trans). how can gene from a rat and dog for example come together naturally except by human action? deal with that

chukkynwob: Do you see energy? do you touch energy? you can't touch electric energy, you see the effects, you can't hold potential energy you feel the potential, you can not hold kinetic energy..... Prof.OOman no one has seen energy it

quoting wikipedia' "In physics, energy is an indirectly observed quantity which comes in many forms, such as kinetic energy, potential energy, radiant energy, and many others; which are listed in this summary article. This is a major topic in science and technology and this article gives an overview of its major aspects, and provides links to the many specific articles about energy in its different forms and contexts.
The question "what is energy?" is difficult to answer in a simple, intuitive way, although energy can be rigorously defined in theoretical physics. In the words of Richard Feynman, "It is important to realize that in physics today, we have no knowledge what energy is. We do not have a picture that energy comes in little blobs of a definite amount.".[1]"

Your arguments are accurate. Have you seen lightening before, then you are seen energy, have you heard thunder before, then you have heard energy, have you held anything before, then you have held energy, because everything is composed of energy.

It is true that energy is broad, but a simple law remains valid, it cannot be created or destroyed.

davidylan: Ok this is quite daft. Where you present BEFORE the big b.ang? So how is it "verified evidence" that energy has ALWAYS existed?

You seem not to understand what evidence means anymore. when a particular matter behaves in the same way always, it becomes a law. Let me ask you, have you destroyed energy before, have you created one?

davidylan: This is quite ignorant. Here is the simple explanation for a transgene from wikipedia - A transgene is a gene or genetic material that has been transferred naturally or by any of a number of genetic engineering techniques from one organism to another.

So how can you say transgenic mice can not occur in nature? Isnt genetic transfer one of the scientific "evidences" for evolution?

How can a geneticist not know this?

Transgenes are not "naturally" transferred, they are artificially transferred, by humans. You can as well say that because some bacteria can produce insulin, therefore they have the natural genes to produce insulin. Bactria can produce human proteins, but they have to be engineered. For anything to be transgenic at all, it has to be engineered.

chukkynwob: Do you know that the big bang theory in itself shoots holes into your arguments? Energy can not be created nor destroyed and the world came about from energy.

Does it sound remotely like 'let there be light'?

Everything came form energy because energy is eternal. It exist forever but in different forms, as decided by space.

davidylan: Are transgenic mice considered "evolved" mice?

Transgenic mice are works of human intelligence (i hope you understand the word "transgenic" perfectly). therefore, you cannot say they "evolved" because they dont exist in nature. However, you cannot say they are created because they are hybrids. You can only say they are engineered mice.

davidylan: Nope. Sorry.



This must be a joke. Your description of "energy" here is the same description for God!

honestly though, it takes more faith to believe this than it takes to believe in God.
So who created the first energy or has it always existed in a vacuum? So



So scientists somehow went back to way before the big b.ang to determine that indeed energy can never ever ever be destroyed?

That is because the God you worship is energy i work with in my lab.

I just told you that energy cannot be [b]created [/b]or destroyed and you still have to ask me who created the "first" energy?. There is no first energy. It is the same energy. Energy can only be converted, it cannot be created or destroyed. This is verified evidence.

You just rejected one of the most simple yet important, short yet verified theory in science, how then will you believe the broad theory of evolution.

Did i hear you say it takes more faith to believe that energy cannot be create or destroyed than to believe in God? if that is true, then you must have seen God.

Have you seen God?

If nothing comes from nothing, where did God come from. I have an hypothesis about that, God evolved from energy, how does that sound to you.

chukkynwob: Which lab? Methodology of the experiment? has it been published? has it been accepted? Did the bacteria emerge from nothing? or a new strand from an already existing strand? a lot of question are going on in my head about this new breakthrough.

oomen you must realize you are talking with educated people,if you are still working on your theories perfect them,if you are done send me a pdf or a blog link...so I can educate myself more.

Besides I posted some major faults of the existing evolutionary theory and you didn't even attempt to clarify me on the points I raised on the theory.

ah, you are far from science. Everyday, scientists make new strain of bacteria to work with, all we have to do is to modify the DNA. Obviously you are no scientist, so i forgive you

sorry but what you posted showed lack of understanding of the evolutionary theory.

davidylan: that's why i simply restricted myself to asking him to prove his claims... its funny how these folks think they are the only ones around here who has ever seen a science book. My guess is ooman is still an undergraduate who has just started his first 1-2 genetics classes and now thinks he knows better than everyone else.

The above is funny, do you really have to hurt my feeling to get satisfied?

davidylan: well help us use genetics to explain evolution... that should be the bread and butter for anyone who has ever spent at least 2 yrs in a foundational genetics class. It would be better than the arrogant fallacy of argumentum ad verecundiam.

davidylan: I am but you are not keeping an open mind, did you see my recent post : "New strain of bacteria evolved by modifying the DNA material in their environment" how does that prove anything to you, no way, but is it real, yes."

you dont need more than 5 lines to succinctly explain yourself... or at best point us to a peer-reviewed publication where we can find this evidence. If you need more than 5 lines then you really dont know what you are saying.

Are you really sure about that. I just told you that big b.ang caused cosmos and you rejected it. the big b.ang itself caused by concentration of energy, energy cannot be created or destroyed. it is eternal, older than God (though i know God does not exist, its a figure of speech), it is omnipresent and is in everything, everything is made of energy, because the very baryons that makes you up (pls tell me you understand that or google it) are made of energy.

Now if energy cannot be created or destroyed, what did God create in the beginning? Except you will say that the verified chemical law is not evidence again.

chukkynwob: I find it insulting when ooman assumes other people lack the intellectual capacity to understand genetics, heck i could decide to get a degree in genetics for the fun of it.

Davidllan by the way I really like how you argue, you argue with the hope of learning or refuting unsound claims of scientific breakthrough where it is obvious there is dearth of one

Its a free world, go learn genetics. Nigeria need more geneticist anyway except dont plan to work in Nigeria, you would regret ever studying genetics. You people dont know the use of genetics here. My advice is that you study law, medicine, pharmacy, banking and finance, Bus admin etc

davidylan: More likely you dont understand them since you have been unable to explain them since... merely appealing to authority then lying about going to sleep. Any 2-yr old can produce textbook titles... i need a detailed explanation (doesnt need to go beyond 3-5 lines) of exactly how science proved the earth could be created without God. Thanks again.

If you need detailed explanation then sorry, i have to go beyond 5 lines for how the earth evolved to be in its place, its not child's story that can be summarized

chukkynwob: Sodium reacts with Chlorine to give NaCl₂ that is hard scientific evidence,if this is new evidence that is not yet universally accepted link us to publications that have been approved by a scientific body with authority in the field of genetics or relevant fields.

Lets say I believe you and become an atheist, dont you think going about with "Ooman said this and that on nairaland..." will make me look ridiculously stupid?

, its science.

Exactly what am trying to tell you. saying that "ooman showed me evolution in his lab" would sound more convincing. You understand now.

Deal with this. "New strain of bacteria evolved by modifying the DNA material in their environment" how does that prove anything to you, no way, but is it real, yes. get it?

davidylan: I'm sorry, you posted a list of claims that make no sense. That is not the same as "evidence".

Exactly, they make no sense because 1) you dont understand them 2) you havent seen them in action.

davidylan: It really doesnt take more than 5 mins to write this. You've been here on this thread over 24 hrs... suddenly you have "no time" to provide evidence to your claims? What is the "evolution" you see at work everyday? Where is this evidence?

Besides, when we are talking about "evidence" then we are not talking in theory but in practicals, you understand now. Except if you want us to debate the philosophy of science, then i will stop being so empirical with you.

Just tell me to change to philosophical aspect of evolution and that is it. But as long as you want evidence, then you have to see because i can't "tell" you evidence, i can only show you.

gone to bed

davidylan: The fallacy of appealing to authority doesnt work here... that western countries are willing to push evolution is not justification that your points are right. It shouldnt really take you more than 2 mins to provide the evidence you were quick to tell us existed no?

I am waiting... thanks.

At this point i have to show you, i just wrote some theories above and you gave a sharp rejection.

I would love to show you how species change to another by changes in genome in bacteria, how life came from non life by disintegrating and reintegrating viral genome and incorporation into eukaryotic genome.

I can't just tell you anymore, you won't believe, i have to show you, but sorry, right now, that is not just possible.

But what i can tell you is that i see evolution at work everyday.

Do you think i would simply decide to go to hell if there are no real evidence of the absence of God?

skyfall: I have to agree with you bro. No offense meant but most Nigerian girls are not intellectually stimulating. Just Brazillian hair, BB Chat, Praying all the time, Linda Ikeji n of course partying. I blame Holly/Nollywood, Nig pastors n our fake@ss celebs.

You are hurting some people

ayobase: Emotional.....I don't get emotional on the 9th of Febs.

"Don't be so daft" is as harmless as "don't be silly"

U wanna cry foul?

If you call people silly, daft, foul, you will go to hell. so shut up

davidylan: cool.



No it doesnt. That's quite lazy.



absurd. No it doesnt.



Not even close to being true.



I wonder why you are too quick to hide behind bible bashing. I'm interested in speaking as one scientist to another about the evidence that exists for a non-God alternative to how the earth was created and how life came to be. thanks.

Wow, that was a sharp rebuff.

You must be willing to view a matter from all perspective before another person's view makes sense to you. It seem s almost an absolute to you that the bible is right. But what if the bible is wrong and the Ifa story of creation is right? what would you say then?

Do you think "developed" countries would allow the teaching of evolution as the only topic in schools if not that it ha been verified? Think about that!

davidylan: I ask again - can you provide the scientific alternative to the creation of the earth and man? thanks.

I hope you are not a geneticist trained in nigeria.

Ah, funny. If i were trained in Nigeria, i would be begging God for job right now. Thanks for that observation, i wasnt trained in Nigeria.

Big Bang explains cosmos

Organic evolution explains life's presence

selection by modification (mostly mutations) explains new life forms.

Concerning the Bible:

We know that the world is not 6000years old

And that all life forms cannot be created in just 6 days event, nature is to diverse to be in place in 6 days. earth is 4.6 billion years old by verifiable evidence and cosmos is 15 billions years old.

Let us start from there

ayobase: And from where did u read that we want God to build africa for us.
Don't be so daft!

Dont be quick to call people daft, dont get all emotional on me now.

bcomputer101: A fool say there is no God out of his foolishness...

A fool says there is a God out of his stupidity

chukkynwob: please educate yourself ooman,in case you think I am an illiterate that lacks the ability to grasps science, I am an engineer.
There is no scientific evidence that God does not exist and neither is there evidence that he exists

In science a phenomenon is probable until proven it doesn't exist,so as i can't convince you scientifically that he exists neither can you that he doesn't exist.
So please just be an atheist rather than a religion hater, N:B I have atheist friends and I respect their choices. Because now you are doing the exact same thing you accuse religions of doing...INTOLERANCE

I have not said "i want to enforce sharia law" on anybody, or that "homosexuality should be illegal" because it is a sin to your god. all these are religious person's view.

All i said was that God kills us in Africa, therefore people should run away from him. I am not enforcing anybody so i am be perfectly tolerant.

You are an engineer, i am a geneticist, as an engineer i can conclude you don't know much about evolution, therefore, do not condemn what you do not understand.

Science has the perfect answer to everything, you only refused to believe. I would go into details now but it will be useless, you wont believe anyway and i would have wasted my time.

chukkynwob: Atheism can neither prove nor disprove the existence of God, so just stick to your school of thought and stop blaming the world's problems on Christianity.

Science has disproved the existence of God times and again which is why atheism prevails right now.

I am not blaming xtianity alone, i would include islam but a bomb could sound at any tme

chukkynwob: Atheism can neither prove nor disprove the existence of God, so just stick to your school of thought and stop blaming the world's problems on Christianity.

Science has disproved the existence of God times and again which is why atheism prevails right now.

I am not blaming xtianity alone, i would include islam but a bomb could sound at any time

kpolli: When your forefathers decided to worship idols n co. you wonder why Africa suffers like this.... God blessed the continent with oil, gold and diamonds but what do we do with it?? You want God to come and build everything for you abi? If that's your reason for being an atheist, I am disappointed in you.... You couldn't bring up a smarter reason

On the contrary, i am accusing you the religious of wanting God to build africa for you. Isnt that why you continue to worship that thing called God and the undead zombie called Jesus, including the murderer himself, the very first hitler called muhammad?

cigie: I don't have much to say but to pray for all ye atheist...you're just too canal to see

pls dont waste your time praying for me, your god is too cruel for me to worship. I'd rather worship Ifa, or the Almighty Esu and yes i mean the Great Lucifer, the morning star whom you know as the devil.