₦airaland Forum

davidylan: Senseless. He KNOWS the end from the beginning is not the same thing as DETERMINING the end from the beginning. Both words are not the same just in case you didnt know.

Idio.t. You have to determine first, before you become certain and know. Your excuses for your mute god are too weak, below average.

euromilion: Jehovah Adonai,El shaddai,Raphar,Elohim,Nissi or something,why all this and their meaning?

There may be many jehovah but there is only one god-the flying spaghetti!

davidylan: this again is senseless nonsense. You know that omniscience is constant and without alternatives how? Have you ever been omniscient before?

This replies makes it certain that you been spitting nonsense all from the beginning. We are talking about a god who knows END FROM BEGINNING. YOUR FREEWILL DOES NOT MATTER, ITS BEEN DETERMINED EVEN BEFORE YOU WERE BORN

and you know there are multiple alternatives how? Have you ever been omniscient?

davidylan: These statements above just didnt make any sense. The conclusion appears completely divorced from the "premise" and more a product of a preconceived notion.

Again let me repeat - knowing the way things end is not an argument against freewill. You havent provided any serious reason to think so besides just repeating a nonsensical canard ad nauseum.

You failed to realize that omniscience, precognition are constants. They do not have alternatives. Its either it goes the way predicted and you are right or not and you are wrong. In this situation, freewill does not apply. The omniscient force will always enforce things to its own direction. Freewill becomes nullified.

davidylan: this is a preconcieved idea that has no basis in the facts. Besides it appears to be the alternate excuse for atheists if indeed they find out God truly did exist. On one hand i wonder why it is of interest to people who say that God doesnt exist.

Anyway... the above is just flawed nonsense.

And why dont you explain how it is a flawed nonsense. When you lack answer to something, you dismiss it by abuse, is that what the bible taught you? And remember you created this thread addressing atheists, that is why it matters to those smart enough to know there is no god.

Ihedinobi: I wasn't particularly expecting you to understand anything I said. In fact, I positively expected you to do your best to mangle whatecer I said.

Regardless, you asked a question. I've given an answer to it. Feel free to show where the answer is unsatisfactory or to show your discomfort with its accuracy and worthiness by creating red herrings.

You present a dumb logic, the type that only people with faith will accept. What question should I have on that. The fact is that you need a god to lead a moral life, if you weren't a xtian, you would have been an assassin or terrorist

davidylan: The most salient point appears to be one you and logicboy appear determined to ignore since it does not square with your preconcieved notions. Which is that the director having prepared several alternate endings does not remove from the fact that the largely ignorant viewing public believes strongly that only one ending occurred since that is the only one they were privy to. So is it with man. Since we can only see in one track... we firmly believe we all have one preset futures... but that removes from the fact that the God who is not bound by time and space is well able to see a different future that could have unfolded had we chosen a different path.

THAT is the point... not the shadows you all seem intent to chase.

Precognition is nullified by the existence of multiple endings because then, since there are multiple endings, a particular predicted ending is negated, omniscience along with it
This is which omniscience and freewill are mutually exclusive.

Ihedinobi: Well, between your quite silly abuses and false accusations and ridiculously poor comprehension of my posts, I think we agree now that you have no defence for your assertion. And, you're the second atheist who has failed to substantiate the claim that omniscience is mutually exclusive with free will. Cool.

Thank you for your time, wiegraf.

What are you talking about? Isn't it clear enough that both freewill and omniscence can't co-exist. Since you know how a thing ends and since that thing must end that way, your freewill is handicapped

Ihedinobi: All that is to say simply that, God's omniscience is the source of the believer's hope and his encouragement to do good in the world rather than evil.

Or the wish for an omniscient god is the source of your hope. And the wish for his rewards the reason that a believer will do anythin good.

Those who need a god to be good are those who are mentally impaired psychopaths. They can never be good on their own except they are threatened with eternal suffering-hell and bribed with paradise.

davidylan: You can shout "wrong" all you want. The facts unfortunately are not on your side in this case.

Or YOU can say you are sorry for saying the universe is TOO ordered. Lying to prove a holy god? How holy is that to you, duffer!

davidylan: another senseless, thoughtless knee-jerk comment.

God ALREADY knows your decision NOT because He made it for you but because He is not bound by time and space.

I know the way a movie ended... the director also knows but also knows several alternate endings that could have occurred had the actors made different choices.

The choices of the actors doesn't mean the movie will not end as the writer or director wanted it to end.

Did you even think before using that dumb analogy?

davidylan: too ordered to have been a product of chance.

Wrong.

The universe is not ordered. Infact, disorder, entropy is on the increase always

davidylan: you're arguing a straw man here.

He knows what route you take does not mean you didnt make the choice to take that route.

For example, as a teacher... i knew which student would fail his exams because he chose not to study (i am also well aware that an alternative ending exists if he made a different choice i.e. if he chose to study he will pass). Does that mean the student had no choice but to fail? Was i the one who made him fail by force?

Wrong.

Precognition with god does not rest on factors like if a happens, then b will happen.

Precognition with god is constant. No matter your decisions, he is believed to already know even before you decide.

okeyxyz: very wrong!!! There's vengeance in the universe, But then you are an atheist, so I don't expect more from you.

Since you were not witness to this event, how do you come about the conclusion that she's matured with the way she dealt with the situation? Since when did silence become maturity? For someone as opinionated as you are, don't you think you should weigh "every" factor in the event before deciding who's right or wrong, who's matured or not, etc?

Again, an atheist opinion and advice, so I understand your position, and I'm not going to critique it.

Have you ever heard of the phrase: silence is the best answer?
Would you rather that she fought the man and get beaten by him?

ifeness: Are you aware that the lions have been scientifically proven to have been on the planet for more than 30million years. Your bible claimed your god created all animals in a day( not including the dinorsaurs) that alone debunks the bible god. No pyramids accounts or what soever. The universe is too beautiful and unique to be created by a god who couldnt even control the Jews.

Nice input.

Pls note that debating with xtians about creation is like debating with the greeks about osiris and poseidon and zeus. The bible is only a myth, as you know.

blink182: your mind is so screwed up. If God wanted to make us gay He wouldn't have made male and female.

Coming in contact with people like you makes my heart so heavy. Knowing there are those who chose eternal destruction to life.

Well then, if god made all things, why did he make homosexuality if not that he enjoys watching sodomy and cunninlingus?

Why do atheists bother to discuss this dumb topic.

The problem isn't really whether a god knows what will happen or not. The problem is that this monster god claims to know end from beginning yet evil happens and when it does man's freewill is blamed.? So of what use is a god 's aforeknowledge if I may ask?

Reyginus: Ooman, you're not getting the point. That an individual body part is said to be alive doesn't mean the entire system is. The life is in the whole.
And what is it about bacteria not having portions. Lol. Do single-celled organisms operate with a single part?
That aside.
Ooman, what to you is gestation?

your lack of knowledge is alarming. "The life is in the whole"?

SMH

Dang, guy, you are perfectly NORMAL. there is nothing wrong with you. Are you gay? find a partner, get married in Ikeja high court or somewhere and live your live.

REMEMBER THAT GOD MADE ALL THINGS, SO IF YOU ARE GAY, GOD MADE YOU GAY.

Reyginus: The physiology of the bacteria's anatomical parts are individually alive, but when yet to function in unison, the bacteria cannot be said to be alive.

if the bacteria cannot be said to be alive, then you cannot be said to be alive.

did you just mention anatomical parts of a BACTERIA? am outta here!!

Reyginus: What is an ectopic pregnancy?

google that

Reyginus: ooman, be sincere with this question please. What do you call a life in the form of a human?

a human is a fully formed and birthed baby. a fetus is still in the womb, forming to be a human

Reyginus: They are alive in the sense of functionality. But as long as a placenta bond is yet to be established, it cannot be said to have life.

christ, let me ask you, do you think a bacteria is really alive or "alive in the sense of functionality"?

Reyginus: It is more than what you think bro. You agree, a life is formed but not a person is killed. Isn't the definition of a person, a human being anymore? I don't see any difference.

repeat: you did not kill a person, you only terminate a life form

do you not understand that?

Reyginus: The moment the zygote is able to receive nutrients from the mother via the placenta, a life has being born. Now, what else?

how wrong is that. The eggs even before fertilization, before becoming a zygote are already alive!!

Reyginus: In other words, the termination of a child in the womb is okay by you? I will come to the formative cells later.

its is not a child yet, its called fetus!! when you abort, you did not kill a person, you only terminate a life form, something that you do everyday!

Reyginus: We're getting somewhere.
Let's look at it from the right to life of the child in the womb. Isn't this being entitle of the right to life?

Lets look at it from the right of life of the germ cells. Arent the eggs and sperms entitled to life? yet they starve and die and no one is crying over that.

God is too great to be elusive. If he exist, man would have found him!!

Reyginus: You welcome. Let's begin from question number one. What do you think of abortion?

abortion is termination of unplanned fetus.

Its not wrong biologically. millions of eggs and sperms die in each of us everyday, so if you abort one fertilized one, what evil is in that? its just like not fertilizing it, its still going to die anywway. therefore there is nothing wrong with abortion.

Reyginus: I don't think it is in the right direction. You do not manage time by focusing on the wrong discussion.

what is the wrong direction? are you lecturing me on how to spend my time now?

I would tell you to let it go. There is nothing like the universe or God avenging you. Since you did not reply during the act, which i think makes you mature, then that is it. Let it go, expunge it off your mind and be at peace with everyone.

A man who makes you angry has cheated you of a moment of peace. Try to control your anger and wish for vengeance.

Reyginus: Perhaps. I'm searching for assertions that may lead me to the ultimate truth of everything.

hmmmmm. then i can say you are on the right path. What is it i may do for you?