₦airaland Forum

@Coogar,

you are just so biased about this topic that you clearly and coyly avoid these evidences staring at you in the face. 9ja has it's probs and challenges, YES! but not as bad as you paint it. 9ja's advantage remains the fact that your options at getting what you want are limitless and you know this. in the UK, your options are not only limited, you are often compelled beyond your wish to evade such expenditures. it's seems there's no freedom, you have this feeling of being shackled.

not everyone leave home 5am. while I was in 9ja, I leave home 7.30 and commute to my place of work within 25mins. As a civil servant I closed 4pm. Security wasn't bad either. I understand the menace of boko and id-iots of the underworld at night, but you paint it real scary. however, security strategies can be deployed and being extra-vigilant should not be compromised. haven said that, nothing takes the place of the being able to relate well with others, that sense of community and belonging Abraham Maslow talked about, rather than living without knowing whom your next door neighbour is. As I type these words, I've lived in my current premises for more than 2yrs without knowing the name of the dude who lives next to me. it's all man to himself here o! and nobody gives a jack about you. you call that co-existence? na wa!

[quote author="Just passing"]Summary Advice : If you have never LIVED ( not VISITED) the UK/US/Oyinbo Land before and you are killing yourself to migrate , there is nothing special there. I personally think it's for those who have made up their minds to live a quiet,peaceful,uneventful lifr and quietly die there afterwards. If you plan on going and then coming back to Naija to "establish" therrafter , you are wasting your time. Best you can get is a good education and some exposure.

For students , try as much as possible to get a job in naija while studying - my personal opinion.

Interesting discussiin here.....been weighing my options for a few weeks now.[/quote]G-B-A-M!!!!! F-U-L-L S-T-O-P





@Just passing,
You have said it ALL! Please where-so-ever you are now, kindly gravitate to the nearest joint and take one bottle on me! tell the bartender (abi na bar-man) I'll settle him

@just passing & coogar I really enjoy this thread discussing these views with you guys. It's been a boring day here in Uk for me (as always), but you guys made my day. . I've resorted to the internet for socialisation as many of them do. very boring place!
if you dont mind keeping in touch: minajkindy@yahoo.co.uk

cheers.

Cyberknight: Well said, Mr. Pato. But where I challenge your assertion about the impossibility to save in the UK as opposed to Naija is that you are equating salaries into naira directly without factoring the value of money and purchasing power parity. To say that in English: money has got more value in the UK than it has in Naija. A 100 quid in the UK can take me a lot farther than 25k can take me in Naija. Converting a salary of 200k into 800 quid is somewhat misleading, because for example, in the UK, one would earn much more than 800 quid a month for a job paying 200k in Naija, obviously.

Yes, I'm equating the salaries but with caution i.e putting other factors into consideration. I don't agree totally that money has got more value in the UK than in Nigeria because if for instance you go on ebay (or any shop) and check the prices of things, compare it to what amount such commodity will be sold for in Nigeria, the difference may not really be so much. I learnt this after I thought so much about what business to venture into while doing my MSC in Uk. I had contemplated buying stuffs to sell back in 9ja, but then the prices of most of such commodities dont really vary much when you compare it to what you'll most polly buy them in 9ja.(i.e very negligible difference) the profit only comes when you buy very large quantities - which ofcourse enables you amass the little difference to become a meaningful profit. I will only agree when it comes to food and agricultural produce. food is a lot cheaper and what you can afford with £100, you may not go near half that quantity with 30-35k. anyway, what do you expect? the UK is more into agriculture so it's expected...just as 9ja is into oil and sells a litre of petrol for N97 as against £1.40 (N350 in UK)

apart from food, NOTHING else is cheap in UK. if you talk about salaries, I still stand on my argument though I agree with you that you get paid less than your counterparts doing the same job in the UK. BTW, my point is that although you may be thinking that you earn less, in the real sense of it you earn more. for instance, many professionals in UK who are gainfully employed earn about £3000/month-£4000 (that's even the very fortunate ones o! e.g engineers/docs). on the other hand, their counterparts in 9ja may averagely earn 300k. it may interest you to know that the Nigerian at home may save more and also live well (even tho not fantastic, but comfy). imagine earning £3000 and you already losing £1000 on tax, another £1000 on accommodation and bills, half of the remaining £1000 on other crazy expenses like MOT + car insurance + road tax (tho you pay once, but you sure make provisions for them from your pay na),servicing/maintaining your vehicle,etc, leaving you with £500 (125k!) if you feed & do a little 'big boy' on £300-£400, how much REMAIN? £100 ..at the end of the year, you'll have saved ONLY £1,200 (300k) even when you earn £3000 (750K), your mates in 9ja will be living under the false impression that their friend who left for Uk and now earning 750k must have harnessed so much wealth. they'll will be shocked if they have the privi of seeing your savings acct. becos I bet ya, they'll have saved far more than that o! ..you'll turn around and tell them balderdash about purchasing parity!

@ Coogar:

there's a difference between quality of life and economic/health indices. pls do not mis the terms: quality of lyf, satisfaction with lyf and social well-being because apparently, you tend to use them inter-changeably in your arguments.

see a link for just a quick summary and consult related texts: http://www.gdrc.org/uem/qol-define.html. you can as well read keyes(1998) or Larson (1993) on Social well-being. Callaghan (2008) also wrote on the contextualisation of social well-being. these are largely subjective. I dont dispute the fact that on the health/economic indices scale, 9ja may not be doing so well. if you read my earlier posts, I stated it succinctly that disorganisation is the bane of the problem. but then, lets keep the argument on track and not digress..it's about income and managing finances. standard of living may be better on the other side but cost of living is a lot higher- and that's in a 'kingdom' where more than 33% of what you earn goes into tax all in the name of providing you with a system that works. you dont pay that much in Nigeria (I stand to be corrected pls)and you'll agree with me that even if Nigeria decides to implement a taxation policy that'll cut 50-60% of your gross earnings, that things will more or less remain the same (e.g take the case of fuel subsidy for instance. ever since it was removed, has anything meaningful been done with the money?) at this point I'm tempted to switch argument that --** it's not about paying so much to provide amenities, it's about the orientation & mentality of the people. things will work where it'll work and will not work where it wont irrespective of money made available.

9ja inept leaders are just not ready to make provisions for these amenities, so don't bother arguing that it works in Britain because pips are ripped off their earning via draconian deductions in the name of taxation. be that as it may, you can make provisions for these missing amenities (privately, just like you have cited paying your fuel, security maiguard, etc) and still save better than your counterpart who earns about the same (or even more) in the uk, live a healthy social lyf, mingle with the boyz every weekend , have a deep sense of belonging (little wonder 9jerians were rated the happiest pips some tym ago , except for the recent boko nuisance)and even define your QOL as better!

coogar: i disagree.....
you can never manage your means better in nigeria. don't concentrate on the takehome pay....concentrate what the guy in britain and the one in nigeria spend their money on. concentrate on the quality of life. there are tangibles and intangibles. how do we even quantify the pollution of noise and air in nigeria(that's one example of the intangibles).

so i earn £2000 monthly....i pay ma taxes and my bills and all is sorted...... the naija man makes 800k(monthly).....he pays his bills and you quickly assumed he's got more than enough to play with but does he? he would buy like 2 generating sets in a year, fuel this gen, pay for a meiguard, pay for the community vigilante, pay to get his dustbin emptied, visit the mechanic at least once a month to service his car because of the bad roads. which account should we put these expenses?

you disagree because you have refused to take a more in-depth, fexible rather than rigid and critical view to this topic. in addition, you sound like you have already programmed your argument to remain biased about other factors/complexities. lets go down a more practical look at things! I'm game anytime. you talk of ''quality of life'' which is a rather ambiguous term. the last time I checked, there was still no consensus even amongst widely read academics and researchers about such terms. it's grossly relative. what translates into real 'satisfaction with lyf' and 'quality of life' remains grey, vary markedly among different people and is entirely subjective. the way you manage you 800k in naija to attain that satisfaction you crave may be different from the way another man manages the same amount to attain what he defines as satisfaction with lyf.

BTW, is paying for such things (security, meiguard, fuel) not affording you an opportunity to manage your means and tailor what you earn to accommodate your needs? . how about having a sense of belonging? do you know of how alienated many pips feel and others (particularly those outside london) complain of an inactive social lyf, boredom and depressive loneliness. tell me about how money can buy that pls. despite the disagreement amongst social researchers about what really constitutes 'quality of lyf' they all virtually agree that having a sense of belonging is one key parameter of QOL. have you stopped to ask yourself once why inspite of the acclaimed govt amenities you harp about, depressive tendencies abound in many these countries? and you term that good quality..innit?

guy, it's not all about pay and the amenities o!

Cyberknight: One thing that I should mention is that for a lot of people who live abroad, Naija's very laxness sometimes becomes a virtue in their eyes, when they lament about the wahala of life abroad. Payment of tax being the most lamented feature . Of course we dont need to point out the fact that high taxes are used to pay for the relatively better living standards enjoyed over there (the NHS may be a nightmare to the Brits, but is nirvana as compared to any general hospital in Lagos, for example). However, I agree that there are pros and cons to living in a strucutred as opposed to a disorganized society. One poster mentioned that in the UK you never see "deals" for example, and that your salary is your salary and you've got to live on it. Hilarious.

But lets take a broad view. How many people can afford to live in Lekki phase 1 or 2? Not up to 4 percent of our population can afford to pay equivalent rents of 1.2 million p.a for a 3bd flat, I reckon. How many can afford Surulere or Gbagada? Approx 10% of the population can afford it, maybe, give or take. Now, in actual fact, I shouldnt be living in Surulere or Ikeja, I should be living in Mowe or Ikorodu and commuting into Lagos everyday. Or even Abeokuta. People come into central London from Erith, Dagenham, etc everyday and retrun. Lack of pdecent public transport in Lagos, for example, makes it nigh impossible to live on the outskirts of Lagos, if I want to live beyond the age of 50, so I am forced to come into town to pay ridiculous rents, and then I am now categorized as someone who can AFFORD it. Do you see the distinction?

Secondly, most of us are all comparing London and Lagos, not the other parts of both countries. Of course accomodation and cost of living as markedly higher in both locations. We should not use their prices and circumstances to compare the other areas of both countries. After all, people live in Pwerri, Enugu, Calabar, Ibadan, Kaduna, Cardiff, Edinburgh, Birmingham, Eastbourne. etc, etc, no be so? So we can;t say that it it difficult to save in the UK as opposed to Naija; I earn about 200k per month, and my house rent is 500k, with one child, and my wife and I combine our incomes to be able to live well. I may be better off if I live outside Lagos, because I definitely would spend less on housing, transport, etc, but postulating monthly savings of 50 to 100k is not really feasible. If I were earning about a 1000 quid in London, I wouldnt expect to save much, if anything, but if I were living in Cardiff, yes, I might.

Basically, the cost of living in developed countries is usually generally predictable, as compared to here. There were floods last month: price of food has gone up. Price of electricity was jacked up overnight, in addition to NEPA mad billing. Jonathan had a vision in January, and petrol orices more than double, together with everything else. I was paying 350k for my flat when I got married; I paid 500k this year, and am afraid to move, because at least I have got "sitting tenant" rights, and know that if I move else where I shall have to pay at least 600,700k for a 3bd. Unstability, imposibility of planning - I really wouldnt mind living in a 3 bd semi detached in Sussex by the time I'm 70, like one of the old, lonely Londoners a previous poster scorned, really. At least I can afford that. In Naija, I cant even get a mortgage to buy a house in the first place.

I'm not surprised you picked on my points and raised objection to my argument. You sound pretty much like someone with some considerable level of experience about living in the UK. however, I must say that things work a little differently from your speculations. the only point you have made which to a large extent, I tend to concur with is the fact that one is more likely to save more outside London than inside London (remuneration being equal). in the example I cited earlier, I made it clear that you can hardly save more than 15% of what you earn in most cases. Just passing (another poster) clearly confirms this if you read between the lines of his post. Just imagine earning £1900 and struggling to save a paltry £300. again, mind you,the £550 I cited for a 2bed-flat is about the least you can get anywhere in the UK. it's more or less like the minimum rent payable for a 2bed-flat. it's much more than that amount in places like London, Cumbria, prolly Aberdeen and a few other expensive cities. so, pray tell how you one can possibly save more. your argument that it's 'the price for better social conditions' is quite right but somehow, I just believe it's not enough to incapacitate people from at least having meaningful savings.

If you earn about 200k and spend over 500k on accommodation, and feel it's outrageous, why not get an accommodation that fits better into what you earn without necessarily compromising your comfort in all ramifications i.e proximity to place of work, serenity of compound, security etc. again, have you considered that the man who earns that equivalent in the uk (i.e £800/month -37hrs/week @ £6.50 min wage/hr, - that's about what pips who work in care homes earn), spends more than your 500k on accommodation? OK, lets work it out taking a pragmatic and holistic/practical look at things. if you team up with 2 other persons to get a 3 bed flat which goes for an average of £600/month (outside London o!) you'll be remitting £200 monthly as payment towards accommodation ONLY (excluding bills O!) that translates to 50k monthly and 600k annually without bills. now, with 600k in naija, you can almost get a decent 3bed or 2 at worse in a considerably nice area (all to yourself). if you decide to go for a 2bed in UK, you'll pay even more because it's about £550, so you'll be contributing £275/month (if you have a partner that you share the 2 bed with else you saddle these responsibilities alone)=68k/mnth and 820k/annum (that's a duplex in 9ja na!).

guy, lets be realistic, you'll always manage your means better in 9ja. the only prob with 9ja is the salient disorderliness and disorganisation. All that is needed in naija are systems that works. if you are not offered more than three times what you currently earn in naija, dont bother diving into the UK. deduct all envisaged taxes and bills before comparing. Health care and other social amenities are undeniably incomparable I must not be economical with the truth about that, but then we cant deny the fact that it's often not funny when all you earn is drained in the name of living in a society with a system that works

@ Just passing: your post is so spot on! so so true! the boredom and loneliness part of it (that one wan finish me now), the weird looking youths with crazy tattoos sitting like puppets in their buses, the snobbish attitudes, the fact you don't get to make pin money on the job, the bizarre bills, earn well and save less. you did well trying to save £300, some can hardly save anything inspite of earning £2000. while others who don't understand what is obtainable in UK quickly multiply waht you earn by N250 and yell..haaaaaaa...500k!!!!!!! they strut with the misconception that you earn so much (500k), not knowing you can hardly save 50k from your 500k. e no easy!

the worst bank in Nigeria is still far better than the best civil service sector where nonchalance and uncouth attitude prevails.

pls guys pardon my typos, I hurriedly typed my opinion. I really need to zoom off. catch you guys on this thread later.

munaco: Strange and interesting topic, why are u using just one person to equate millions of Nigerian abroad. why not tell Achebe and Soyinka to come back home because those people are not even earning what MDs in Nigerian banks are earning.Please, how many of ur mates are in the same shoe like u (i mean primary to secondary). Omo just dey happy and thank God for most things He did for u.
£15000 = 3,7500,000.
Average Lecturer salary N250,000 to N300,000
Multiply by 12months 3,000,000 to 3,600,000 respectively
Can that money pay for duplex in lekki phase one, NO.
that is why the country is still backward.

this is the part that really grates on my nerves. it was the junkie misconception we were fed with before straining all nerves to come over to the UK. @OP, I'm more or less in the same shoes with your friend except for being single. Currently I'm also rounding up a PhD program after my Msc. So. I could say I've been around 4 yrs and old enough to know what obtains.


Firstly, I'll start by saying things are not the way people at home see and judge it from popular stereotype. Sometyms, I sit back and reflect and I must confess that often I feel as if it's way better back home. dont get me wrong, the quality and standard of living (generally speaking) at home may not really be so pleasant (worst still is the current security state of affairs, but lets shove that aside for now since it's unrelated to the topic). In 9ja, you can tailor your means (earnings) flexibly to get what you want which is not often the case in the UK. I used to share this bogus misconception like the author of the quote above until I came over and saw things for myself. it's entirely a charade o! it just doesnt work that way.

Everyone is more or less fixed in the UK. the system is so organised such that you churn whatever you earn back into the system leaving you with little or nothing as savings. who wants to live without savings? it's the reason many believe its better back home. for-instance I feel the plight of your friend: Chidi because I more or less fall within the range of his earning by virtue of some little entitlements to my studentship (£13k). Now, that is untaxed. just imagine if Chidi's wife was'nt working! that would have been worse for him if we are true to ourselves. there are many like Chidi out here in Uk also contemplating the same thing. if I say I haven't looked at things through his lenses, I'll be telling a big lie. have you stopped to consider a country where 30% of what you earn goes to tax, leaving you with 70% as take home pay. Now, just when you think that is for you, rent and bills gulp half of your 70%, leaving you with 30-35%. though food is cheap, but you'll spend nothing less than another half of remainder (30%), that means 15% only is left on you after all these unavoidable expenses. so you'll be lucky if other miscellaneous/unbudgeted expenses doesn't engulf up the remaining 10/15%. I'm not exaggerating here. do a survey and you'll find out that this is what goes for many in UK. the more reason why for many of them, it can be very difficult sending money back home either for projects to be completed or to support siblings.

On the other hand, 9ja may hve its issues, but when it comes to saving, dont be surprised that you may be saving more. you don't have to live in lekki or Ikoyi or VI, neither do you have to live in Marokor because you wanna maximise saving. but you can come in-between and get a decent accommodation in places like Surulere, Maryland, Gbagada etch which are also really nice places with decent accommodation. 'I tell ya', accommodation and bills KILL earnings in the UK.

earning £1000 and earning 250k in naija are NOT the same. the guy with £1000 saves practically nothing at the end of the day in Uk. as a matter of fact, he can only share a flat with some-one in UK. if he decides to hire a 2 bedroom alone and pay the bills, he may spend more than £550 + £150 = £700! feed on £200 n save only £100 (25k) but the guy with 250k in naija, can get at least a not too bad 2bed for 250k/annum..that translates to 21k montly, get a gen and fuel it with less than 10k montly for power. if he is not extravagant, tell me how he'll find it difficult saving between 50-100k from his 250k?

lets consider these issues critically, becos when pips in Uk complain of coming back home, others at home do not seem to take analytic view to their complains.

overall, make eno be like say I dey talk too much. it may not be a bad idea relocating if your friend cannot find a better job (which apparently is becoming more difficult by the day in the Uk and even in the US advocated by some others). however, it's a VERY WISE IDEA NOT to relocate unless he gets a job first. education in UK is far better and worthwhile, so, I'll advice his children stays behind with his wife. he may even save more in 9ja with a lecturing job... and the job may allow him 'free/extra-time' to do other things (personal business) be more productive and maximise earnings. I've thought of this severally and that's my take. if I find a gud lecturing position in 9ja after my program, I wont hesitate o! it's better than loafing around jobless in UK or earning and not saving at all.

have you got pix?

A must go! grab a bargain.

BENZ IS KING ! fuel economy of toyota is flimsy excuse to prefer a toyota over a Benz. mercedes versions from '98 are almost as fuel economical as your toyota/honda IMHO
driving experience, they are in different worlds. Benz gives you that stability - feeling like more gravity pull with speed. toyota is feather weight. you just cant compare them o!

AVAILABLE!!!

tubabe: is this ride in niaja now

YES O!

Available

hi Ikenna. I'v read a lot of your meaningful contributions on this forum. if you dont mind, kindly send your number to my inbox. will like to have your contact for some auto-related discussions. cheers

minajkindy@yahoo.co.uk

when are they calling for the gear-boxes? should the ones in 9ja be shipped back?

jay bee: do you have work permit in the uk?
if u do, we've got vacancies for analyst at an org that regulates the NHS and independent healthcare service providers.
Pay is abt 25k for grads like urself.

I have my MPH (UK) and currently rounding up a PhD programme in public health (UK). I am interested in knowing what offers you may have. pls kindly post useful links. I have been searching for the online web page of residency programmes in PH. I stumbled into it sometime ago, strangely, I can no longer link up to the website. can anyone assist with this pls.

thanks in anticipation.

[quote author=Dápwajok]do u have an idea how much will it cost to convert the car and, will the car be problem free after the conversion?[/quote]this is the second one I'm selling on this forum.
see link for the first one: https://www.nairaland.com/875949/mercedes-benz-c180-2001-n
if it was badly done, I'm sure the buyer will be breathing down my throat now. I understand a lot of Nigerian technicians are charlatans, and 'cut & paste' technicians, hence your fears. dispel your fears, go through this thread, there's a link on the first page. i'm not advertising for the guy, but I must say, he is a meticulous engr. he is attentive to details. I have seen his job. As a matter of fact, he has worked for me and I appreciate his expertise.

Pls note: the buyer of the first C180 co-incidentally, happens to be a nairalander. it's possible that he is seeing this thread. I understand that a lot of people have their reservations about buying cars on NL, because they fear they may be buying a 'pig in a poke'. he is free to come here and comment if ever since he bought that car from me, if it has given him any problem at all. I can vouch for this car as much as I can vouch for that last C180 - anytime, anyday!

bigx: Is it dry land?

even if it is swampy, it's FAR better than Ikorodu. Sandfil it & build where civilised people live.

[size=18pt]Available[/size]

Ogufe: I am willing to pay 315,000 but will pay twice . Please inbox me so we can deal.

no way sir! you must be a clown. thanks anyway.