₦airaland Forum

elampiro:
Who is more hardworking than Lingard? Lingard moves up and down the field like the way Oscar used to play in Chelsea.

Lukaku is a striker, his primary work is to score - 25 league goals.

The hard work you see in Lingard is the activity I see in Lingard, average player be running around to deceive those he can deceive...

10Dove:
Patrickmuf you are wasting your time bro. Some arguments are not just worth it. Anyone can compile a vid and make Lukaku look like a wc playmaker.

I have left him to his arrogance...
You guys have LA Liga in the bag...

LordAdam16:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCIuwUgG2ac

Watch and tell me Pele is not prolific at playmaking!

You think you can talk sh*t without evidence and get away with it. Can you quote one single expert who's watched Pele play who said he wasn't prolific at dribbling and playmaking?

How do you wake up one morning and say Pele is not prolific at dribbling and playmaking? What did you smoke?

-Lord

I do not entertain clowns, Martial dribbles, is he as good as Messi or Neymar? No...
Robben is also a very good dribbler but not as good as Messi.
Isco is an AM but is he as good as Messi? No...
Coutinho is a very good AM but he isn't as good as De Bruyne who is more or less the standard when talking about AMs nowadays.
I have tried for you, maybe I'm not your helper, check the guy next door.

I can't help, I'll put you in my prayers...

See how some fans are jumping on that uninformed comment to spit lies, wasn't it Mou that compared us to Sevilla?
Isn't Mou the same person complaining that the players aren't good enough?
And isn't it the same Mou that giving the go ahead for renewals?
Mourinho has failed this season for the resources at his disposal and the fans have the right to complain...
All this blind loyalty makes no sense whatsoever.

LordAdam16:
Awon, so Pele is not a playmaker abi? And maybe you didn't know CR7 and R9 played as midfielders at some point in their careers abi?

Oga keep kwayet.

Is it the one that they had to make Copa America an annual competition to help Messi's ministry and he still couldn't take advantage of it to win 1? Not even one. The Euros is every 4 years. Barca fans eh! Tufiakwa...

So we should not talk about Cryuff's inventions make your man for fit see road abi. No let's talk about your man running aimlessly like a headless chicken in 5 international cup finals without scoring one "easy tap-in." Later you guys would say football is more than scoring goals. How many international cups have your man won with dribbling and playmaking? Always asking for the bar to be lowered. Pampered, entitled, ignorant fan base.

You no even follow discussion before you jump in. No be only majority. So it has moved from majority put him in the top 3, to majority saying he is the greatest. Awon suffri with the lies na!!!

Cules make una come carry una colleague ooo. Na market he 1 enter so...

-Lord

I really don't know if it's arrogance or childishness or both that's your issue, your moniker is strange to me thus I presume you're new here. FYI, I'm a Manchester United fan...
Back to the crux of the matter, that a player can dribble doesn't necessarily mean he is a good player maker, check Hazard.
Many players have been able to combine dribbling and playmaking e.g Zidane, Iniesta, Iniesta, Ronaldinho etc
Others are great at playmaking e.g Kross, De Bruyne, Pirlo, Scholes, Alonso etc
Others are good at scoring goals e.g Shevchenko, Inzaghi, Drogba, Suarez, Ronaldo etc
Now, note that a great goal scorer might also be a good dribbler but only in instances, the keyword here is "prolific" whilst Suarez can wriggle his way past a defender, he isn't prolific at it thus you'd likely have most folks rate him as a great goal scorer and most likely a playmaker (he was in his Liverpool days).
Ronaldo was great at dribbling but to keep pace with Messi, he had to ditch dribbling to concentrate on scoring so, you'd find most folks rate him him for his goal scoring prowess rather than dribbling.
The same applies to Pele, he could dribble yes but was he prolific at it? Did he do the playmaking often? The answer is no, those who saw that Brazilian team or who have watched documentaries or analysts talk about team will tell you the playmaker was Garrincha, even Pele will tell you that.
R9 was a fantastic dribbler and goal scorer but he wasn't quite as prolific when it came to playmaking.
Messi on the other hand has the numbers to back up the argument, he dribbles just as well as he scores and play makes, the one player who is close to Messi at present is Neymar but he needs to be a little more direct I.e cut some unnecessary dribbles...

This is not nudity...

LosVikingos:
patrickmuf

https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DCar8MSRkeug&ved=0ahUKEwjc7ZbNgvbZAhVF1xQKHfT3AIQQwqsBCCYwAA&usg=AOvVaw3EcCjIceEG_g5IpbOhSHRx

Pele is a playmaker and a goal scorer

As good as Messi? No...Messi goes about playmaking as well as he goes about scoring add dribbling...

Are Leganes more successful than Sevilla over the past 7 years in Europe? If no, then they have to cancel the match...
Mourinho has finished us.

LordAdam16:
0.

My point was that he didn't go to 5 international cup finals and not win 1. But I'm sure you missed that.

Like Messi, Cryuff went to the World Cup Final and was named Player of the Tournament. He transformed a Dutch side from obscurity to a powerhouse. And he invented Total Football which Barcelona and Ajax have used for the past 40+ years, and which gifted Barcelona and Messi their 2009-2012 dominance--tiki-taka. He even has a skill named after him--the Cryuff turn. The only GOAT other than Zidane to be a legend both as a player and as a coach.

So why should Cryuff not be above Messi? What has Messi invented?

-Lord

Now it's about invention?
Why didn't Cryuff lead his team to 100 finals if it's that easy?
You're just running circles, Messi has managed to combine goal scoring with supreme playmaking that's what marks him out.
Pele was a great goal scorer as is Ronaldo (7 & 9), as is Romario.
We have also had great playmakers like Ronaldinho, Cryuff, Zidane, Pirlo etc
We also have assist kings but Messi has all of this qualities and goes about executing them in equal proportion. That's why is rated by majority as the greatest...

LordAdam16:
Faux intelligence! It's cute!

Except that there's no objective top 3 GOAT list that everyone agrees to. In a class, everyone knows the top 3 as they'd have objective results due to the fact that they do the same subjects, go to the same lectures, answer the exact same questions in the same exams, and have their respective scores compared by the same teacher who is the only authority.

Conflating an objective school report with a subjective GOAT list ranking proves how shallow you are!

So no one would say R9 isn't greater than Pele? What could Pele do that R9 couldn't? R9 won 2 world cups. He could have won 3 if he didn't have a convulsive fit before the '98 final. He is the only GOAT to have a 3 year catastrophic knee injury, come back, break the transfer record to Real Madrid, then won a Ballon D'Or and the World Cup scoring 2 goals in the final and winning the Golden Boot. No one would ever be able to do that. This guy won two FIFA World Player of the Year awards before he was 22.

LM10 dribbles mostly using feints. CR7 dribbles mostly using skills. R9 dribbles using both.

Watch this clip and tell me you've ever seen anyone do what he did --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaBvBjOJ5SI

And you think he can't replace anyone on the GOAT list in any position.

There's a reason why he isn't called a magician, a genius, or something else. He's called O Fenômeno. The Phenomenon. He cannot be logically explained.

“I love to score goals after passing all the defenders as well as the keeper. This is not my speciality, but my habit.” – Ronaldo

And then you say CR7 can't displace Messi? Is that a joke or what? Any GOAT can displace any GOAT in any list. That's why everyone can't agree to anybody's list. And that's why it's disrespectful to talk about a TOP 3, as tho' there are 3 legends that others can't displace. And even more disrespectful to say legends like CR7, Cryuff, and R9 can't displace Messi in any list. That just shows you're irredeemably ignorant. You think football started in 2010 and ended in 2012?

Messi is the only GOAT to go to 5 international cup finals and not win one. Not even a tap in. How do you go to 5 finals with roughly the same players and you can't even inspire them to one trophy? And you want to put him before Pele, Maradona, CR7, Cryuff, R9. What insolence!

-Lord

How many international trophies did Cryuff win?

elampiro:
Raumdeuter

Martial and Lingard have better returns on goals per minutes played than Lukaku. Why?

Lukaku's tally has dropped compared to last season when he was at Everton, we are not getting it right in attack...

Seriously we need to blood in Tachith Chong and Angel Gomes, those guys are 18 already and nowadays, 18 is hardly too early...
Mourinho is always quick to call out Shaw but never Valencia or Smalling or Bailly. Maybe it's because he expects more from Shaw given his undoubted ability.

To to honest I share in the sentiments of Mourinho, a lot of our players are scared of receiving the ball especially in tight spaces...It's not just about forming activity when no one is close to you, it's what you do when you're in crowded zones that matter, your movement, spatial awareness when you're given the ball etc.
Lingard, Valencia, Smalling, McTonimay, Young etc have to improve in this regard.
This is where Mata, Martial, Sanchez (he has not shown enough in our colors), Pogba, Matic, Shaw and lately Lukaku have an edge.
Yesterday, that move between Mata and Martial that almost led to a goal for Mata is just what we need often, unfortunately a lot of our players aren't quick thinkers with and without the ball.

elampiro:
That is not opta's definition. I saw it before but cant get the link. It is just like Sqwuaka. It indicates where a player used the ball most in a match.

That was the definition.

You are right.

raumdeuter:
Are you saying if for example a player is on the field but did not touch the ball, he would not have a heat map?

Heat map is the position a player takes up during a match.

Against a better team, we would have been punished today...

Young in for Shaw, why?
If Shaw isn't injured then Mou is a fool.

Jones has to go after this season, the idiot is always injured, we should give him the Wilshere treatment, loan him to Swansea and invite offers from Sampdoria and the likes and watch him stay fit all season...Useless English boys.

Leyqute:
Salah has wrestled the Golden Boot from the grasp of Harry Kane. What a player!

Ashley Young really did a really good job silencing him at OT.

Kane might still win it if he recovers on time.

This team minus Romero and Lingard should have started against Sevilla...
Watch how we'll play very well today.

neezar:
I have never seen an angry Mourinho b4

But the press conference ehn.....Man dey boil

Guys expect a total overhaul this summer

With the senseless contract renewals we are witnessing? No way...
Blind, Young, Rojo...The most annoying one is Fellaini that's even holding out for a pay rise...

Even when we were winning, some of us had reservations, we saw beyond the flattering score lines, I can vividly remember the game against Everton where even though we won 4 vs 0, it was more flattering a score line than an actual representation of the game of football we saw. I think it's around this time that Lana1 or some other poster here drew the attention of a vast majority of the posters here to the failings of Mkhitaryan who was only good at stat padding.
At some point, I had a debate here with one of us and I pointed out that our style of play isn't gonna fetch us the title but those who think they love the club or the coach more than others quickly jumped in with Mourinho's records and our position on the log even when it was clear Man City was beginning to leave us behind.
Times have changed, Mourinho's conservative methods might have brought him success in the past but he must make adjustments to stay relevant and stay winning, you look at our supposed contemporaries, and ask, will Fellaini or Lingard or Smalling or Young start for any of them? The obvious answer is no especially when you look at our options on the bench and see Shaw, Mata, Martial, McTonimay etc.
At this point, winning the FA cup doesn't make up for an otherwise average season by our standard, with the players at Mourinho's disposal he should be doing much better with the right formation and team selection.

codedguy1:
If he ain't gonna change this lackadaisical tepid non chalant conservation defensive masterclass we only attack when we gone a goal down style that the fans especially Dont like then I Dont think he should be allowed to get on with any job at OT.

And If he ain't gonna change his ways then the way forward is going to be more frustrations couple with his rather sour utterances.

I don't think any other coach has had close to the level of support Mourinho has received since Fergie left, the fans have been on his side just as the board and players have stood by him.
All we are asking for right now is that the football on display should match the investment and obvious quality in our ranks, we have the players to go out and play sound attacking football whilst still being defensively sound so I don't understand those who talk as if Mourinho has not gotten enough support.

codedguy1:
I just tire!

Abeg make una explain how we make purchases in united.

1. Is it Mourinho that identifies players that he wants and presents these players to Woodward/board to buy?

2 Is it Woodward/scouts that identify players regardless of what mourinho thinks or wants? Because I remember how one drunken London club always blamed a certain emenalo for bad purchases only

3. Or Mourinho provides a list but the board/Woodward edits it and then purchase those they feel are suitable for the team?

Abeg, na learn I wan learn oooo.

I am more interested in knowing who was/is behind the spate of contract renewals we are witnessing...Blind, Young, Mata etc Even Fellaini is holding out for an improved deal...We don suffer, if Pep was our manager, Fellaini, Blind, Young, Darmian, Valencia (maybe he would have improved) etc would have been shown the door after last season.

ChristineC:
@funlord
This team can certainly do better. I mean play better football and win trophies. I think the players agree on the end goal, which is winning, but they are not in agreement with the prefered route to that success.

As a fan, i didn't see the need for the defensive shell tactics over both legs against a team like Sevilla, neither did i see any justification throwing in Moroune Fellaini from the off to play hoofball.

Whenever an injured player returns, Jose Mourinho keeps them on the bench first, like Eric Bailly, Luke Shaw, Anthony Martial and even Paul Pogba. This is never the case with the big Fella, he gets in right away and that goes a long way to show the mentality and basic philosophy being followed.

The problem now is, how will the board go about convincing players like Dybala and those of equal calibre that the philosophy will change if this system persist? Remember flair players like Anthony Martial or Alexis Sanchez or Paul Pogba or Juan Mata would rather have the ball at feet than chase it 80% of the time.

Another issue that is becoming a deadly pinch is square pegs in round holes. It should be addressed asap.. I like this manager and i really hope he can finish strongly and have concrete plans to adjust some of these defects.

Spot on...

codedguy1:
And that's the reason Mourinho should take 90% of the blame.

Do you play attacking football when you know you have average players or try to be conservative like our darling Mourinho?

The answer is to clear out all the supposed average players and play attacking football, of course without totally neglecting defending.

City and barca might have some problems with their defense but the relentless attacking football they play reduces the pressure on the defense.

What I don't understand is why the board is renewing their contracts.

raumdeuter:
You Mr Patrick are to blame

They don't have Niger Delta militants over there to issue worthless threats...

larride:
I agree with this, that's why I have always said that I will always apportion blames to both the manager and the players, what I will not support is that it's Mou that made some of our players redundant or bang average. While Mou conservative approach sometimes made it hard on us but you can never blame Mou for his players not being able to pass, not being able to put in any effort or not being able to create space for themselves.

Then he takes the blame for persisting with the average players you mentioned.

This whole idea of blaming the players doesn't augur well with me, Pep came in, did a season a realized he had to replace his full backs and strengthen his attack and next, he went about replacing Sagna, Clichy, Zabaleta and Kolarov with Mandy, Danilo, Walker.
He also brought in Silva to replace Jesus Navas, all the players brought in have consequently led to an improvement in the performances of the team but over here, Mou is still persistent with average players like Young, Smalling, Jones, Lingard etc couple with his overly cautious approach to games.
70% of the blame rest on his shoulders.

Mourinho has to go, Montella a rookie manager compared to Mou set up his team to attack and they particularly picked us out through the middle.
Mourinho on the other hand waited till we were a goal down to start attacking...
He is a coward.