₦airaland Forum

spyder880:
I wan get alert, God win!!!

.

spyder880:
Email now sent, thanks.

Email received thanks.

spyder880:
Ok, mail now sent, if there is need to change venue/date/time, I will resend the mails. Thanks.

Email not received. Please check and resend

ifyalways:
You have our email address or at least some of us. It won't cost you nothing to email us this suggestion as opposed to typing it here. I'm not going to put myself or loved one in a risk just cos I bought land.

you are busy and so are some of us.

Oga Spyder880, the concern is genuine I must say.

spyder880:
Ok, I will be looking forward to the meeting. Which date and venue are we agreeing to meet?

How about Saturday 19th September at Dragon recreational center, 82 Div, Nigerian Army at GRA Enugu?

Time?

ifyalways:
Have we agreed on the fencing stuff

Ify is still asking for reduction, no matter how small.

Yes o, am still with you on the reduction request, I only toned down due to the meeting suggestion.

PHfinest:
Oga Spyder880, I trust your judgement. And I will suggest to the house to adopt the amount you stated. Two things I will ask you to do:

1: Compile and keep records of cost breakdown of all expenses as it relates to securing the land (fencing and gate house).

2: Organize a meeting of stakeholders as soon as you can.

spyder880:
Thank you for these two points, especially for number 2, we need to meet and I can explain all these fencing costs to us all. Let us pick a date and meet in a public place in Enugu, we can even arrange a site visit for all of us (I can pay for a bus to transport us to this land so we all see things for ourselves and ask questions where necessary.)

Nice. As soon as coming Saturday?

Piyke:
Thank you Spyder880, I collected my documents within the week. Well written I must say from my quick skim through.

However, it just acknowledged receipt of NGN400,000 as price for the land and in no part does it mention the other NGN250,000 (For those that paid 650k) paid for grading, electrification etc. I did not also get a receipt to acknowledge the said 250k.
I feel this amount should have been captured in the agreement and its purpose stated as part of the responsibilities of the Sublessor. Or at least a receipt issued for this amount separately and purpose of payment stated on the receipt.
Don't know if mine is an isolated case. What do other subscribers think?

I personally have not seen mine, though it has arrived my home. However, I wasn't going to expect those other payments to appear in the land deed. I think it would have been nice Spyder880, to give one receipt acknowledging the additional amount for (survey, agreement, electrification, access) without spelling out the amount for each. You know some people may have bought for relatives or friends etc, and will want to show proof of integrity for example. However, now the deeds are gone, an electronic acknowledgement of funds received could suffice if needed.

.

Following.

spyder880:
aaahhh To use face me I face you standards to build our estate gate house? We better leave this till next year when Buhari may have released more money into the system

I wish others could add their thoughts to this, I really would have prefered that fencing asap, it gives more sense of security on the land and if done quickly, we may reduce the worries of one levy or the other from that community. However if majority seem to prefer discussing it next year, its fine.

ifyalways:
J
Considering we are yet to do drainage and road, I join you to ask that Oga Spyder review and do something about the cost.

As per your over excitement induced post, just call Spyder, get my plot number from him and deposit 2 tippers of sand and 200 blocks. That's the only way I can get over this " toilet insult"

Chai, I don die.

ifyalways:
Can you explain what this means please.
Thank you.

There's a thread he commenced building 16 rooms, I think he ended up building 12 with approximately half this number in million naira, ie 6 million naira. So I was expecting him to build two rooms with 1 million, am sure he understood me.


Ehm for the other one... Sorry ma, I guess I was carried away by looking for ways of reducing cost to meet 100K per plot levy, no vex.

spyder880:
Thank you sister for taking time to contribute to this. What I have in mind as the gate house is not something N1m can do, I have in mind a two room unit, one for the security men on duty and an inner office where the estate manager can use as his office. Both will have toilets so that the manager can lock his room and go around the estate without locking out the toilet. But we can reduce this to one.

The major cost will come from the building of the house, this small house will have pillars as there will be a deck, decking it and then plastering, electrical, plumbing, windows, doors, tiles, office furniture, painting etc. Nothing in building is small.

The gates will resemble the picture you attached, I am looking for a likely picture to attach. No need to start this and hang on the way.

More contributions are expected.

I think your calculations are explicit enough for contributions to commence, I wish some co-landlords with better knowledge could comment on this, the fencing of this place will definitely facilitate development here and subsequently and increase in value of the properties. What we need to figure out is how to spend the least we could to achieve the best we want.

Now for my contribution:
1. While I thank you for dropping the cost per block to N80, I don't know if you considered "minus-ing" the entrance gate area from the number of blocks to be used.

2. The way am looking at it, the quantity of sand and gravel quoted, will cover both the walls and the gate house.

3. Just a crazy thought...How possible and cost effective is it to make the security house stand on the gate pillars as well, that is having the security housed decked on pillars with the gate pillars as part.

4. What's the Idea behind decking the gate house, I had followed one of your threads where you built similar structure for a cost of about half the number of rooms in million naira, so I was expecting one million naira to suffice for two rooms, which includes sand and gravel. Now we have sand, some blocks and gravel, if am correct with my earlier supposition.

5. Can you make a calculation of 100K/plot and work backwards? Just try some adjustments and consideration ...like building two rooms only while they use one of Ifyalways plot for toileting temporary till we're bouyant enough.

Thanks all.

MRBrownJ:
@Sundayslim
i would have done the same as you did and explain exactly why to their parents... while also schooling them as to why this is wrong!

I get your view, however the moment you explain the reason to the parents, don't be surprised if the matter changes from " wicked" to "pervert" in the neighborhood.

ifyalways:
Can the " Onitsha seller" ever reclaim the land? I was thinking the government will after 100 or 99 years?

The onitsha land has no c of o as at 1990, so nothing like 99 yrs for govt yet if I understood what have been said so far. Now what I don't get is why the enugu own is not free of the family's encumberance such as annual rent, let it be that our only grouse is with govt alone when we get a c of o( infact, can we even obtain a c of o for a land we're paying rent on?). It however is becoming clear here that its obtainable all over enugu as the norm.

spyder880:
Thank you Kostadinis, for the insight, I will call you tomorrow, long time!

Thank you for keeping me awake Pchinak, and for showing the world how scattered my kids have made my little home office, with my books which they are reading, scattered without arrangement. But its good, we are all here to learn.

I just pulled out my copy of the land use act, and this is the little I could pick from section 41,42, subsections 1 (i)(ii)(iii)

Please read and tell me what you understand there.

Like I said before, I am not a lawyer, but I cannot question the knowledge of my lawyer who prepared this document. ........ thank you.

Lol, no vex sir, that's why if person no "break slate" e never start. I saw the below link now.

https://www.nairaland.com/289462/lawyer-pls-deed-lease-deed

kostadinis:
From my little understanding, the source document of a "deed of conveyance" in a land purchase could either be a Free-hold or Lease-hold. In anyone of them, a "deed of conveyance " cannot annul the nature of the original transaction...Regardless of what ever was mentioned in the conveying documents. If the original lease states 99 years, then it must revert back to the original land owner after this period, unless there is a renewal clause in the document.

The year 2077 is when all the premier land leases in Nigeria will expire. Many of us will defintely not be around by then But if the existing Land Use Act will still be around by that time, am certainly sure there will be court cases across the land.

This is because many things are not yet clear about the Nigeria leases and their reversion. My lawyer tells me that government by default owns any land she issues a C of O in its place . And such a land will revert back to them (government) at the expiration of the lease. This is regardless of whether it was bought from people or community who owned the said land through customary inheritance. If the property did not have a C of O, it will revert back to the people/community. The whole thing is really crazy.

The government by 2077 will decide if she will renew the C of O of a land lessor or return the land to the person who had occupied it for ages

Thanks for your contribution. Though I cannot say I understood what premier lease is nor why it expires in 2077. I however know that a man bought land in onitsha in 1954, built a house there some years after. By 1990, the house was sold by his children(who inherited it) to a new owner(who may/may not have resold it), do you mind telling me when the original onitsha seller will reclaim this land. Note that there was no mention of lease for any number of years in any of the transactions.

spyder880:
Although I spent only one year in undergraduate law school before changing my mind and changing course, but I own some law books, including a copy of the Nigerian land use act. In this book I find that the only legal means of obtaining ownership of a community or family land where your don't hail from is for the community to issue you a lease.

The lease will specify the conditions agreed between the lessee and the lessor(s). A deed of conveyance on the other hand is merely for the transfer of titles between two persons. There is no way a family or community can issue you a deed of conveyance. Please refer to a lease and let's see what it says.

Any lawyers in the house?

I just showed you an extract from a "deed of conveyance" issued by a family on an inherited land. And that document was prepared by a lawyer o.

spyder880:
Annual rent is very legal here. This is a parcel of land bought in 1977 in Enugu, the excerpts from the lease refers, the community charged the lessee the sum of N40 to be paid each year. I will dig up others soon....

Please note section 2, subsection (b) as attached, after paying the community N40 yearly, I understand that you can also be paying the government their rates, taxes and rents, and that is the crux of my argument. The community will charge an annual rent for a lease, and you will still be paying the government for your registered lease or C of O.

Thanks for the enlightenment. Please What is the difference with those ones bought (not in enugu) which carries the title "deed of conveyance". Inside it, you find clauses such as this " The vendors xyz have agreed to Sell and the purchaser abc have agreed to buy" also you see " The vendor as beneficial owner hereby conveys all the rights, interest and ownership of that piece of land...to the purchaser". Note that no mention is made of lease in such document. Is there a difference from your own after 99yrs for example?

Pls this is just for my enlightenment sake.

spyder880:
To answer this, I will need to go and dig up some leases, I will post the response with the relevant sections of a deed of lease. I will do this before this weekend. I also hope a lawyer will talk about this.

Thanks, that will be helpful.

spyder880:
I will try and make the parent lease available .

I have collected from my lawyer, the completed lease for plots numbers 27,29,30,31,32,33,49,50,51,52,37,38,39, in addition to the plot 43 collected earlier.

Bravo Sir.

spygadgets:
Pls as a suggestion :
Hope a complete photocopy of all the deed of main lease btw tigerken property company and the village heads , including all the signed documents will be attached as a complementary copy to each of the proposed sub-lease as done in most part of a public house scheme

Advantages:
it proffers a detailed lease history in d absence of d primary leassor
It shades a transparent history line of purchase when one chooses to resell his plot in d future
Judging from most land transactions which I must admit Oga spider is farrrrrrrr way more advanced than my self, I will pledge that we see constructive reason for d aforementioned point

Am glad oga Spyder gave a positive remark to this plea.

CharlesAA:
Ok, Please I would be interested when you extend the estate.. but for me I am very safety cautious, I would like to see some safety considerations.

A very valid line of thought. I wish it had come earlier.

spyder880:
Thank you for this question, the annual ground rent is a requirement in land lease, and we have been trying to arrive at a favourable amount all these while. The community are asking me to be paying N100,000 yearly for the land but I refused, the going rate in Enugu seems to be N500 for each plot. We agreed to hold another meeting on this with the heads of each family. The matter is still inconclusive, but I made provisions for it in the land documents I will hand over to each buyer, now waiting for what they will charge me.

Believe me when I say that this is the third state I have been closely involved in acquisition of land from a private entity, but this is the first place am hearing of this annual rent. What could be the reason? Are there purchases that are not lease?

spyder880:
I am looking at several options for estate gates, with a view to selecting the best and affordable types for this location. This is the first option, but I will rather go with the type which has an official space for security men and estate officials in between.

Option 1

I hail Sir. Isnt the choice of in between or side going to depend on the width of the road?

spyder880:
Time for us to plan and carry out the fencing of this land.

Nice. Waiting on you as usual for kick off.

spygadgets:
Now we have truelly been hinted on the exact nature of this estate, I propose we suspend all concerning the micro rules and focus on how best to draw development to this area by creating room / encouraging people willing to develop their plots to start asap without these aforementioned rules.... Let's not forget that there is no rule for jungle so let's develop this estate into a place to BE.. Then we cone back to our drawing board to draft a rule to guide us , by then we must have had more stake holders on ground rather than E-Meetings we are having now

My points?
:perimeter fence (around 12couches) all round the estate with at least 2 main entrance gate
:clearing the roads linkages within the estate for clear and easy identification of each plot irrespective of the location
:erecting a security post and employing at least 2security guards and 2 gardeners for the flowers and treestrees

If we can achieve this within the next 6 months I bet few people might be encouraged to start making steps in starting their projects thereby having a MASSIVE BOOST on the overall community

This is my bitter TRUTH that we must face as a TRUE REALITY

I agree with you in all but one. "Suspending all rules" and making the estate "a place to be" does not go together. We really need to decide on somethings. Atleast we seem to have a general agreement to no car should park outside as normal parking space. To ensure we don't have problem with this, we have to ensure that flats built on a plot is realistic to the parking space available. I know why am hitting on this, there are things that will make nonesense of the estate idea and the hassles of making one. Eg, am I allowed to build 10 self contain/studio in my plot?

Piyke:
Just curious as to when the planned payment of 3k or 5k or whatever we finally agree would commence. Anybody?

It could start immediately we agree on an amount. If its late in the month, then the next month. It needs to be done, even if we've not employed those personnel, we will need money anyway.

Meanwhile i feel the perimeter fence needs to be done asap for "this land is not for sale" related wahala.

spygadgets:
If by the way its going that we want to have a maximum number of flats.. Then I can propose 6 flats each plot not higher than a story building

My reason is this 90% of the people investing in this project might not relocate from their BASE to this place at least for noW, so its meant to be a money making venture by way of rentage, so why will be compelled to build a duplex in that part of location in enugu , how much can I rent it out with reference on the rate of apartment around there , LETS FACE REALITY MY people......

As for me I am planning on a story building with pent house of 6 flats of not more than 2 bedroom apartment each .. The pent house if for me any time Am around on holidays

I understand your points and they are very valid, especially if your 90% non resident claim is true. However I believe some did invest based on the idea spyder created when he allocated different plots for different kinds of building. More so, exclusivity in any form often increase value. What I will rather prefer is for spyder's expert advise on the viability of that location with respect to duplexes for rentage. However if spyder880 or those who know the place says its not going to be viable for high end tenants, then we go for re-arrange. Truth is the value of the land will appreciate based on what we make the estate to be. There are low and high end estates, there is what we allow in the estate and those who invested on duplexes will lose money as it will not attract the targeted custormers. Again people should be allowed to make maximum utilization of their plots for gain, within acceptable limits. We need to determine that limit, and thats where expert opinion is needed. The money for one more deck could buy another plot in another spyder880 estate if it comes to that. This issue really need to be trashed out indeed.

Ehm...but oga o, this six bedroom on one plot creates little space for cars na , and could lead to problems in future with regards to our laws on street parking, except you bought from those big plots at the edges, which can be an exception, if you did, then congrats on your good fortune.

ifyalways:
Well, if the house says 30K per annum then so shall it be.
You did raised valid points sha as per number of security men for NOW. Considering there's nothing "tangible" to be secured for now.

Thank you ma.

spyder880:
Welcome Sir, in summary, how many staff are you suggesting at the start and at how much salary?

Thank you very much sir. Considering that there is nothing to attract thieves there, the estate manager's fee seems most cogent of them all, and I propose 30k/month on that at this time. We can get 2 gardeners to plant and tend flowers on the roads, at 15k/month they can as well cut the grasses on each undeveloped plot once a year,(they have enough time to do that) and these people's presence is enough security for that land. However we may have two live in security men at 15k/month as materials start coming to site, If we start with the security now, then the gardeners can come later when the buldozer finishes its works.

With 24k per annum on each plot, we can take care of these for now. If we make it 30k or 3k monthly, we will have enough to cushion an increase or ad hoc levy in future. Whatever we start with now is going to be the base, so we should not start on a high, lest we run into troubles.
The way am planning to follow you in this building in estate thing eh, if I pay 5k/month for every plot I buy, wetin happen in 1992 go happen again o.

My opinion though, make una no vex.