₦airaland Forum

lol

Morotov1: Reexamination has to do with USMLE then retraining comes in. The British and the Aussies have better chance of being marched into residency especially Neuro or Cardio residency than Nigerian trained doctors even though they both pass the same USMLE but do they have same chance of getting internship placement or being recruited by the top notch hospitals ....No...because hospital and organisations strive to keep themselves abreast of the competence and academic ability of the countries they are recruiting from.
The blacklisting of our medical schools by NHS about 2 years or so ago, how many products of those schools who are privilege to travel abroad were able to get surgical or even placement in primary care. Check out NHS recruitment of foreign doctors, we are not even among the first three.
Don't rant with my handle, leave it for your JOHESU members.

until you provide a Link for your original argument,don't bother replying me. it is irritating arguing with someone who keeps shifting the goal post. once again I refer you to your original post.go and re read it.

giving drug is not our primary responsibility. nd let me correct u.. the doctor doesn't prescribe. the pharmacist does. nd den we administer.. but it's not our primary responsibility...
-tophaz,11:09am ,july 12th 2014






pharmacists dispense doesn't mean they cant prescribe.. their original job description before Nigerian bullshit altered it, is to prescribe.. please do tell me the difference between dispensing nd prescribing... 2. please tell me?/if a pharmacist normal work is to dispense nd dey studied drugs. y dd dey study drugs? to sit down nd b giving drugs... haba!!!

in an orderly system, the doctor examines with d nurse. draws findings sends patient for lab tests nd xrays.. sends symptoms nd lab test to d pharmacist who reviews it. nd. mks a prescription. which d nurse administer
-tophaz,11:30am,july 12 2014


these remain my posts of the day! etched in gold! this chick has to thank her stars that nairaland is a faceless forum.

agabaI23: The funny thing is that most of the medical students/doctors who are championing this debate here are those who paid money to get admitted in different forms. If there are 10 doctors/medical students here talking, especially those who are talking about sitting for JAMB, 8 of them didn't go through merit list. The doctors among them are likely those who spent extra years. The finest of doctors and students want you to experience them.

i wont deny the fact people get admitted to medicine after paying all sorts of outrageous amounts.it happened in my time(15years ago) and i believe its worse now. but you know the beautiful thing about medical training?? its structured like a funnel. a wide entry point for evry chidi,femi and ibrahim and a very very narrow exit........enough said!

Morotov1: You don't have comprehension issue only that you saw what you want to see to buttress your point.
No where in that post did I make a reference that only Nigerian trained doctors were retrained among others ....The training is not poor when compared to other third world countries but it is when compared to advanced countries.
Nigerian health professionals that practices outside these shores are indoctrinated on the medical jurisprudence, culture and practice of the country they are practicing in to prevent and shelve the Nigerian factor and mediocrity.

SMH.....you are incorrigible! you have spun a web around yourself and you are struggling to get out of it. you made an ill thought out comment and instead of you to acknowledge it you are stubbornly insisting on being right.

again look at your post:
Morotov1: That shows you that your ability has been limited by law because the " paramedics " are already performing your duties.
No wonder Nigerian doctors are retrained and reexamined when they leave the shores of these countries.
I will find it offensive if I am called what I am not and since you failed to distinguished the different and subsequently take correction on who and who are paramedics, may I use these medium to extend my desire to and not to be quoted by you concerning this discourse. Thanks.


my brother every graduate not trained in the US including british and australian doctors go through the same process a nigerian doctor will go through in the US. does it make their training poor

you also said ;"the training is not poor when compared to other thirld world countries but it is when compared to advanced countries"

my brother how is that possible when the americans put both the british and nigerian doctor through the same process for licensing

you also said ; "Nigerian health professionals that practices outside these shores are indoctrinated on the medical jurisprudence, culture and practice of the country they are practicing in to prevent and shelve the Nigerian factor and mediocrity"

oga arent british doctors in the US indoctrinated on jurisprudence,culture and practice too

you have no arguement. until you can prove to me that a british or australian doctor with their world class training is treated different from a nigerian in the US as regards USMLE, please refrain from making careless statements like that.

InvertedHammer: Are you just typing for the heck of it?

They handle life-threatening situations. Yes.
How well they handle the situations calls for debate. This could be attributed to many factors such as lack of equipment, poor training, etc.

I hope you get the true picture now.

the mammography machine in upth has been bad for months. if we fail to diagnose very early breast CA in an elderly woman,would you blame us?

the functioning ultrasound machine in upth is being run on PPP(can you imagine?in a federal govt hospital).the machine came without an endocavity probe so we cant properly assess the ovaries of a woman with infertility.
i can assure you that people will interprete the above as poor training not knowing we are seriously handicapped.

they have modified the line "i will aid the physician with loyalty" to suit their selfish needs and rub their ego BUT want our hippocratic oath to reamain unchanged..... bunchaclowns!!

Morotov1: It is modified because they no longer aid the physician alone not with the advent of other health workers into the fold.

oga i still dey wait you for the other thread o!!!

InvertedHammer: Yes. That's what they deserve. Doctors in Nigeria put in more work hours and handle more life-threatening situations sometimes more than other professionals. Their remunerations are not bad either.
No one gives what he/she has not. The doctors can only practice within their knowledge spectra which regrettably is very abysmal. Not that these folks are not intelligent. But the curricula on which their trainings are based are incomplete.

the bolded is not true otherwise you wouldnt have nigerian medical graduates after a few years of residency training abroad competing favourably.our problem here is mainly equipment. but if its basic medical knowledge,the principles remain the same.

Morotov1: That shows you that your ability has been limited by law because the " paramedics " are already performing your duties.
No wonder Nigerian doctors are retrained and reexamined when they leave the shores of these countries.
I will find it offensive if I am called what I am not and since you failed to distinguished the different and subsequently take correction on who and who are paramedics, may I use these medium to extend my desire to and not to be quoted by you concerning this discourse. Thanks.

this is the quote i am tackling you on

please explain the bolded.
you are implying that nigerian doctors are the only ones retrained because our training here is poor if not what exactly do you mean.
please explain to me.maybe i have comprehension issues. please be kind enough to explain to me.

Morotov1: Thought we talking about Nigerian doctors and I am aware of other foreign trained doctors taking the USMLE too.

oga you tried to give the impression that nigerian doctors are retrained abroad BECAUSE of poor training here and i PUNCTURED THAT ARGUEMENT.if you have nothing better to say please lets move on.

ujustice: This is the original oath nurses take at their induction into the profession.
I solemnly pledge myself before God and in the presence of this assembly to pass my life in purity and to practise my profession faithfully.
I will abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous, and will not take or knowingly administer any harmful drug.
I will do all in my power to maintain and elevate the standard of my profession and will hold in confidence all personal matters committed to my keeping and all family affairs coming to my knowledge in the practice of my calling.
With loyalty will I aid the physician in his work, and as a missioner of health, I will dedicate myself to devoted service for human welfare.[1]
Florence nightingale will be weeping at this her disloyal descendants who have fought to remove the part on loyalty to physicians and have gone further to fight physician in a union of rebels called johesu.

they have modified the bolded out of inferiority complex.pure and simple!
if it is not panadol,it can never be panadol.shikena

indian doctors are FOUR times more likely to be struck off than those trained in Britain

In the last five years, one in 1,000 British-trained doctors were struck off
During the same period, one in 250 Indian-trained doctors were struck off
About a third of doctors currently working in the UK were trained abroad
But 75% of those struck off between 2008 and 2013 were trained overseas

By Emma Innes

Published: 10:01 GMT, 6 May 2014 | Updated: 10:12 GMT, 6 May 2014

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comments

Doctors working in Britain who received their training in India are four times more likely to be struck off than those who trained locally, figures have revealed.

The General Medical Council (GMC) statistics show that between 2008 and 2013, 117 Indian and Pakistani doctors were stuck off the medical register.

During the same time period, 142 doctors who trained in Britain were struck off.
Figures released by the General Medical Council show that between 2008 and 2013, 117 Indian and Pakistani doctors were stuck off the medical register - proportionally four times higher than those trained in Britain
+2

Figures released by the General Medical Council show that between 2008 and 2013, 117 Indian and Pakistani doctors were stuck off the medical register - proportionally four times higher than those trained in Britain

Proportionally, this means about one in 1,000 British-trained doctors were struck off, compared to one in 250 of those trained in India and one in 350 of those trained in Pakistan, The Daily Telegraph reports.

Currently, about a third of the doctors working in Britain received their training abroad, but 75 per cent of those who were struck off the medical register in 2013 were trained overseas.

Since 2008, 458 doctors in Britain have been struck off.


The largest proportion of these were trained in this country, followed by those trained in India, Pakistan, Egypt and Nigeria.

The figures have prompted concerns about the level of scrutiny overseas doctors are subjected to before being allowed to work in this country.

However, the British Association of Physicians of Indian Origin (BAPIO) says the figures do not reflect poorer medical training in India and Pakistan.
Currently, about a third of the doctors working in Britain received their training abroad


Instead, it says the statistics show that Indian doctors face discrimination when subjected to investigation by the GMC.

Dr Ramesh Mehta, president of BAPIO, told The Daily Telegraph: ‘Over the years we have repeatedly pointed out to the GMC that foreign doctors are treated harshly in disciplinary procedures.

‘It is ironic that on the one hand Indian doctors are being criticised and on the other hand they are being courted.’

Niall Dickson, Chief Executive of the General Medical Council, added: ‘We are here to protect the public and make sure that doctors who treat patients are safe to do so, regardless of where they have received their training.

‘These figures demonstrate that we will take action where doctors fall short of the standards we expect.

‘International medical graduates make a huge contribution to healthcare in the UK and the vast majority of them provide excellent care for their patients.

‘However, we know that doctors coming here from overseas can find it difficult to adapt to different cultural norms and it is certainly true that in the past not enough was done to support them when they first came to practise in this country.

‘More is now being done – we ourselves run a “welcome to UK practice” programme and all doctors coming here are now part of national system of regular checks.

‘We have also commissioned a major review of how we assess their knowledge and skills when they apply to join the UK register – the review will report later this year.’

Currently in the UK there are 150,000 doctors who have been trained in Britain.

There are also about 30,000 licensed doctors who trained in India and Pakistan.

source;http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2621277/Indian-doctors-FOUR-times-likely-struck-trained-Britain.html


this is the article i think you are refering to but take note of the bolded.
the UK is a peculiar case.they struck of indian,nigerian and egyptian doctors due mainly to reasons NOT bordering on quality of overseas training

blink182: The day I lose my ability to become emotional about losing a loved one should probably be the day I die. This is the reason doctors shouldn't be going on strike. It shouldn't be heard of, it is the height of irresponsibility. Other means should be used by doctors expecially when the reason for strike is based on trivial issues.

If I had the means there should be a law that counts all deaths in a hospital during an industrial action as man slaughter on the doctors in charge.

i hope you know doctors go on strike in the UK you so love to point to as an example.
i hope you know israeli doctors ended a 5 month strike not too long ago
please advise us doctors,how do we handle a governemnt that is insincere? many of the reasons we are striking for now were signed by government last year.
do you know how many times we have shelved this strike?
the ASUU strike that lasted 6 months was for issues that were agreed on in 2009 and earlier.
please be objective. how do we handle a government that is notorious for not keeping agreements

Morotov1: No, it doesn't but apparently doctors faces more extensive academic reevaluation including professional evaluations more than others.
Check out the embargo NHS placed on the doctors produced from some Nigerian universities some time ago.
In US, you must pass the Education Commission of US medical licencing examination, enroll into a residency program before you can be licenced. Straight out of medical school without some years as an intern or completing a 3 year residency before licensing is no longer obtainable.
So a supposed doctor that made the comment that prompted these discourse won't find it easy working in such a clime.

Students and graduates of U.S. or Canadian medical school programs accredited by either the Liaison Committee on Medical Education (LCME) or Committee on Accreditation of Canadian Medical Schools, leading to the Doctor of Medicine (M.D.) degree, or by the American Osteopathic Association (AOA), leading to the Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine (D.O.) degree, register for Step 1 and Step 2 of the USMLE with the NBME. [b]Students and graduates of medical schools outside the United States or Canada register for Step 1 and Step 2 with the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG)[/b]Graduates of medical schools in and outside the United States and Canada register for Step 3 with the FSMB or with a medical licensing authority in the United States. Each of the three steps of the USMLE examination complements the other; no step stands alone in the assessment of readiness for medical licensure. The USMLE program recommends that for Step 3 eligibility, licensure authorities require the completion, or near completion, of at least one postgraduate training year in a program of graduate medical education accredited by the Accreditation Council on Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) or the American Osteopathic Association (AOA).

source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Medical_Licensing_Examination


pay attention to the bolded. doctors trained outside the US including british,australian and japanese doctors.

tohpahz: lmao.. AMEN!!!! How possible is it not to be attended to by a nurse!! never!!!!! so kip praying dude. nd i hope ur prayers r answered.. bye dear...

of course i will BE attended to by a nurse at some point or the other(infact i love nurses.my mum is one) BUT NOT YOUR TYPE!

echarlz: Thanks again. Some of us have been saying this for more than 2 years now since the health sector crisis took a dangerous dimension. I still can't understand why people are afraid of embracing privatisation. That is all we need. Back it by appropriate legislation and enforcement, we are there. The health systems in the countries people keep citing have enabling laws that won't allow people feed fat on the system and with minimal govt involvement. Each country and even each state should develop health care model that best suits it.

Doctors have been screaming and begging for privatization BUT the other health workers dont want to hear it. please help me ask them why on this thread.
Privatization is the way to go! water will find its level!!

Morotov1: That shows you that your ability has been limited by law because the " paramedics " are already performing your duties.
No wonder Nigerian doctors are retrained and reexamined when they leave the shores of these countries.
I will find it offensive if I am called what I am not and since you failed to distinguished the different and subsequently take correction on who and who are paramedics, may I use these medium to extend my desire to and not to be quoted by you concerning this discourse. Thanks.

mind you,the bolded is the reason i am tackling you. the bolded implies that we are retrained BECAUSE our training in nigeria is LOW-QUALITY.

Morotov1: You don't want to debate with me, you want a sentimental riddled show of words of why your profession is better than others.
I am not a member of JOHESU or NMA but I stand much to gain if Nigerian health facilities are privatised. With what one is seeing here , I can deduce those that will lose massively if a middle ground is not reached between the government and its health workers.

ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE RETRAINING APPLIES ONLY TO NIGERIANS OR DOCTORS FROM 3RD WORLD COUNTRIES??

you are running away not me. i want a debate from you but your post above shows you are trying to dribble me. answer the question please

tohpahz: phantom.. .. lol i laf at yu... whenever u come to a hospital nd c how things really go on... u come nd apologize... :*

may i or anyone even distantly related to me NEVER be attended to by the likes of you.
God forbid!!!!!!!!!

tohpahz: pharmacists dispense doesn't mean they cant prescribe.. their original job description before Nigerian bullshit altered it, is to prescribe.. please do tell me the difference between dispensing nd prescribing... 2. please tell me?/if a pharmacist normal work is to dispense nd dey studied drugs. y dd dey study drugs? to sit down nd b giving drugs... haba!!!

in an orderly system, the doctor examines with d nurse. draws findings sends patient for lab tests nd xrays.. sends symptoms nd lab test to d pharmacist who reviews it. nd. mks a prescription. which d nurse administer

Morotov1: Is there any need for that here. The post you quote was self explanatory. You are retrained and reexamined to ensure you can work efficiently and effectively and also in accordance with the laws guiding the country of resident before you can be licenced to practise.
What do you want to know again.

so does the retraining apply only to nigerian doctors?

blink182: typical superior mentality that has landed you gays where you are. Call him whatever you want but he virtually saved my life. Eventually Nigerians will see doctors for what they are and seek alternatives. My 'babalawo' patched me up permanently after your kind almost ruined my life. If not for surgeons I do not see the need for doctors. Pharmacists should also be able to diagnose and prescribe medication while you all shove your consultancies up your posterior holes.

Doctors are over hyped and they want to make sure it continues like that, maybe other doctors are good though. Nigerian doctors are just good for nothing. Soon the bubble will burst and you will all be retired to holes while other JOHESU members are given sufficient training to do the job and still keep their titles.

I can just imagine what other JOHESU members have been tolerating all these years.

I lost my uncle last week to prostate enlargement after undergoing surgery. He had been a TB sufferer for years and had become very weak from years of struggling with chronic TB. He just developed an enlarged prostate. Instead of doctors advising him to look for alternative treatment to surgery they encouraged him to undergo surgery and he eventually died from complications. All because they through their marketing Web wanted to pocket 400k from the surgery.

I can almost tolerate corruption of any other profession but doctors, doctors! You people are mentally ill to think you can also become corrupt. You want to live lavish not just lavish but ostentatious lavishness. You think you are also politicians.

Well I do not blame you I blame the institutions that produced you. Other lecturers have made blocking compulsory why can't BMS lecturers do the same too. Producing half baked doctors that value money over human life. The underlying essence of becoming a doctor is no longer to save lives but to make quick cash. You will all be the originators of your destruction. Beasts!

i am sorry you lost an uncle to what you deem an unfair and callous situation but please leave all emotions and sentiments aside and argue logically. pick a point or issue,lets trash it out. you are emotional and cant reason straight in that situation. many nigerians are like you.they have lost a relation to what they deem to be the doctors greed or wickedness BUT we are seeing just your side of the story. we dont have the other side so we cant blame no one. please calm down and be logical...

Morotov1: Nurses no longer swear by Florence Nightingale. I just glanced at the American nurses association pledge and noticed that the clause the Nightingale proposed for nurses to be loyal to physician has been modified, nurses are to extend the loyalty and cooperation to other professionals and organisations.

oga i am waiting for my answer. i want a cerebral debate from you...
what is the purpose or aim of medical licensing exams in different countries

tohpahz: giving drug is not our primary responsibility. nd let me correct u.. the doctor doesn't prescribe. the pharmacist does. nd den we administer.. but it's not our primary responsibility...

...i hope sensible nigerians are seeing the challenges in the health sector??
i hope nigerians can see the reasoning of people who are up in arms against the doctor...
and to think nurses are part of the "bite" in JOHESU.
look at a nurse feeding people misinformation. nurses are so fixated on hating the doctor,they have muddled up the job description of theirs and others....

oga morotov1....i need an answer to my question:

what is the purpose or aim of medical licensing exams in different countries you can check google if you need help.

Morotov1: That shows you that your ability has been limited by law because the " paramedics " are already performing your duties.
No wonder Nigerian doctors are retrained and reexamined when they leave the shores of these countries.
I will find it offensive if I am called what I am not and since you failed to distinguished the different and subsequently take correction on who and who are paramedics, may I use these medium to extend my desire to and not to be quoted by you concerning this discourse. Thanks.

@ the bolded. you see why allowing you guys to head the hospitals is like initiating apoptosis in our healthcare system.
let me ask you.....what is the purpose of medical licensing exams in different countries

please answer me.

tohpahz: could u post a recent one.. abi u ddnt c ma post dah it's bin modified??

i have shown you the ones google gave me. i cant find the modified one.
but why are nurses able to modify their pledge but expect the doctors to stick to the hippocratic oath. that line in your pledge was modified why? inferiority complex!!

Eldavido1: If I misquote you, then I am sorry about that. But saying " we gave drug too" aren't that suppose to be your primary responsibility? I thought doctors work is to prescribe while yours to administer, so what is special here? who is contesting with you about that? But if in anyway you administer medications other than does prescribe by doctors, then I am definitely right in calling you "bunch of killers". And by the way watch your spellings. I do have hard times reading short hand.

they administer only oral drugs. they shouldnt adminster IV drugs but they do in their various practices in town. let her tell you the truth

please show us the modified 'nightingale pledge"