₦airaland Forum

bumfem: ncerely doctors need not worry about other professional method of progression so far the appointment of consultancy are regulated by govt approved bodies. More so, they are consultant in their various profession and not in medicine. If the govt that fund this regulatory bodies is fine with the standard set for appointment of consultancy so be it. I see no reason why NMA seem to be crying than the bereaved.

Consultancy are confer on other health professional in western world ,whose system we are trying to copy. I see no reason why NMA is not comfortable with this.

In modern medicine, lab investigations are far becoming sacrosant to making informed impression that drives appropriate care and also to be at safer side of the law medicolegally. Nigerian physicians do what they like and call it practice because there are no laws protecting our patient here or laws are not been enforced.

Off course, making correct diagnosis starts from history taking in other to enrich yourself in review of system and system review . In most cases in modern medical practice,data collection/lab investigation/and or imaging follows in other to make informed evaluation of the problem.

In fact NMA need to focus on improving nigeria healthcare index in africa not to talk of the world. And get busy instead of fighting who becomes what in hospital. Respects are earn and not by intimidation and share blackmail.

I agree with you totally BUT johesu have not gone about this struggle well.too much bad blood.

[quote author=Dr_OBD]God bless you Acidosis. I am a medical doctor and didn't want to comment because there is no need to. This your statement is so correct. I don't think there is any doctor who is currently fighting to head pharmaceutical companies or the health sector. The health sector actually needs a multidisciplinary approach as the patient will be the biggest beneficiary. What NMA is fighting for is that doctors should be the head in the hospital environment, not in the pharmaceutical companies or NGOs. Actually one can become a consultant in any professional field, Business, marketing, etc. so other healthcare professionals should be allowed to become consultant, but with a well structured programme not to rival the medical doctors, but to add more value to the sector.
What most of you don't know is that in public hospitals (teaching hospitals in particular), before a lab result is released, it must be endorsed by a pathologist (who is a medical doctor), medical doctors (radiologist) interprets X-rays, Ultrasound results, MRI and CT scan. The job description is clear, but we all need each other.
In terms of renumeration, if you google the richest professionals in the US, UK, etc, you will find medical doctors (different specialties) topping the list. You can hardly find other health professionals on the list. Doctors don't earn the same amount with other health professionals anywhere in the world. But other health care professionals have the right to earn big as well.
In terms of medical school, yes, other health professionals take BASIC courses in anatomy, biochemistry and physiology but not as deep as a doctor (in Lagos, most hospitals employ auxiliary nurses, can we then call these auxiliary nurses real nurses and earn same as a registered nurse because they can give injections and dress wounds)?
I work in Lagos and most private hospitals are owned by doctors, those that are not owned by doctors must employ a doctor before they are given a licence to function, the disparity is even wider in private setting where doctors earn 100 naira, registered nurses earn 50 naira while the auxiliary nurses earn about 15 naira (they do most of the work).
Let's tell ourselves the truth, none of us will visit any centre if there is no doctor there. Yes, doctors make mistakes, but I can tell you that the mistake is everywhere.... Imagine a pharmacist who prescribed ciprofloxacin and fansidar to a pregnant woman before quickening which resulted in a miscarriage. Knowledge and experience is key. I will never go and start mixing different chemicals to produce a drug, that is not my field or area of specialization.

We should work together in the health sector. Take a clue from the public health team (anybody can become a public health expert), let's respect boundaries, doctors must respect other health workers, they must respect us as well.
Within the four walls of a hospital, the doctor is head, however the health sector is big enough for everybody, the pharmacist is the head in a pharmaceutical company, the engineer is the head of a biomedical tech, the nurses are care givers, sweet and always trained to assist the doctor so as to give patients the best of care.
I rest my case.[/quote]God bless you!!!!!

moneyallowed: Read through a lot of comments here & can't help feeling we're skirting the real issue.
First my unbiased opinion.

Do doctors have the right to go on strike? Of course. They have a union, unions go on strike all the time. In fact all health care providers in Nigeria have resorted to that one too many times.

Do doctors have a legitimate reason to go on strike? Well in this country any reason is legitimate. Even if it's a simple ego tussle with your counterpart.

As far as industrial actions go, this has to count as one of the stupidest. All that talk of improved healthcare for the populace is just "wash". They put it there to make it look good. Bottom line is both unions want better conditions for their workers, but hey that's what unions are for right?

The two things that could actually swing this in JOHESU's favour - public opinion & legal backing- seem to be lacking. The average Nigerian is fairly ignorant of the facts of the dispute. All people know is Doctors are going on strike cos that is what affects them at the end of the day. Plus while the existing act is in place NMA can point to it all day long. Little wonder they're pushing for the amendment in the National Assembly.

For once the FG can sit back & chill while NMA & JOHESU beat each other senseless. Watching two unions that are supposed to complement each other resort to this sort of behavior is plain disgusting. At the end of the day, the Presidency will simply cut a deal with one of them at the expense of national healthcare.

Now my very biased opinion on the matter; NMA has messed up big time. Doctors ought to be agents of harmony in the health sector and not the sticking point. The fact that all the other disciplines are united against them suggests they have grave faults. JOHESU should adhere to global best practices & not make Nigeria more of a laughing stock than it already is. I don't want to start explaining to a foreigner why Nigeria has Clinical Consultants in Teaching Hospitals that aren't doctors. The present state isn't that good and I shudder to think of what it'll be like with the nurses, lab scientists, etc in charge.

what suggests the bolded? do we leave them to their whims and caprices do you want a situation where a surgeon orders a certain wound should remain closed for 3 days and a consultant nurse counteracts that order? do you want a situation where a cardiologist writes a prescription for heart failure and the consultant pharmacist cancels it?? who really owns the patient who has the final say at the end of the day? anarchy would be the order of the day. NMA is trying to prevent that.forget all the hogwash johesu is throwing about saying doctors are seating on their progress.its not true!!! quote me.......THIS IS A BATTLE TO UNDERMINE THE DOCTOR.DONT BE DECIEVED!!!

bumfem: @joker5180...... The relativity as u put it was the making of Dr Olikoye kuti of blessed memory during IBB regime. It was never a product of collective bargaining. He did it to destroy the existing template since the 80s. That template was the original template for placement of all health prof. including the physician. It was Olikoye that disrupted the system to favour his people. The health sector has not known peace since then.So the relativity as u were taught to believe is a falacy.

CONHESS /COMESS are both product of collective bargaining. So no one is superior to the other.
NMA members were extremely happy when conmess circular was released in President Yaradua regime and no body told the govt that there was an error. it took them 4yrs to discovered that there was an error in the document . God will judge all unrighteousness.

conhess /conmess template has become a bench mark upon which any increment will be built. Any thing done beside this shall be fiasely resisted by JOHESU . It is there right. Docs must learn to live with it.

I need not talk further on "Cconsultancy" bc some in here are either chronically ignorant or decide not to understand issue . The word "consultant "is a generic word. it isn't own by anybody. that some people now come around suddenly that it is the basis of strength of relationship btw docs and patient is laughable . They have lost the battle at NIC but seeking thecourt to reverse itself is another theater of jokes.

@phantom......I doubt if you are a physician ....that physician can make almost all diagnosis without investigation in 21st century healthcare is ridiculous. Pls let us be mindful of what we post in here.

i agree with the bolded but what extra training have you people put in place to attain consultancy status OR you think you can get msc or phd in any other field and become a consultantin radiography for instance, is it those two month or three month CT or MRI courses they do once in a while that gives them that status? we all can see through their demands.furthering their training is not their priority but this whole thing is just a means to an end.an end where they are on the same pedestal as the doctors.pure and simple


as regards your post directed at me,you are not a doctor.i dont expect you to understand.like i said before,the doctor is the key variable BECAUSE his brain is his most important tool. medicine is an art!!!! an art that is dependent ON questions directed at the patient and examining the patient. that is what we spent 6yrs in school learning. we didnt spend 6years to learn how to request for lab and radiological investigations.

QUOTE ME ANYWHERE,any doctor that depends on ancillary investigations for his diagnosis is a BAD DOCTOR. QED

femyodsky: If I may ask, why did you decide to study medicine having practised as a nurse for that number of years.

masterstroke!!!!

candygosh: But this is so unfair, there are lots of peope tht need help. Like me, scheduled for surgery tomorrow, how can tht happen now? Theyshould just call off the strike. Ebay of their hippocratic oath, to hold our lives sacred.
Both parties should just come and resolve this thing.

sorry o!!! the nurses can do your surgery.you dont need the doctors.

adahib: I love this.... Then what is all the furore about? Everybody keeps saying the doctors are overrated, the know nothing,bla,bla. If this is true, then we all should be happy that they are going on strike. At least there are other more intelligent hospital staff to take care of our illnesses. Let's just ignore them and get on with our lives and see how it goes.hehehehe

omicron: Your analogy is invalid within the context you have presented it.

The lecturers are to the universities what doctors are to the hospitals (and it is the ''hospital'' not ''health sector''). The guy you quoted rightly suggested that a librabrian (who is unarguably very important to the university system nonetheless) would not start bragging he should become the VC of the school, since he is a graduate too (but not a lecturer in the school).

The different fields of academia amongst ASUU reflects the various Specialties within Medicine (and not various professions within the hospitals), meaning that a professor of English for instance is no less an academic than a professor of Mathematics. Much like a Gynaecologist is no less a consultant doctor than, say, a Paediatrician.

It does not mean that a radiographer is at same level as a radiologist or that the chief midwife is same as an obstetrician. It does not mean a librarian is same as a physics lecturer.

They do not have same privileges as a result.

dont waste your time.unreasonable people will remain unreasonable.

cnwamo: Hey bro, your previous posts have been making sense but I have to fault you here, the doctor needs the medical team because he cannot do it on his own, yes you can make a tentative diagnosis for some disease conditions but we know major conditions need tests and xrays so if your sister were to be ill and in need of a blood transfusion, you would abandon what you had to do and run tests on her then donor and bleed the donor also right?, or when your friend has a closed fracture you would just treat him because you dont need the help of the radiographer to ascertain the nature of the fracture because you know it all right? would like to write a long note but let me state it here the patient needs the nurse as much as he needs the doctor as well as the lab tech.
The big difference between the Nigerian medical teams and those abroad is the doctors have an attitude problem...before you begin insulting me I'm a now a medical student and I'm speaking from first hand experience as a nurse for 5 years...

my brother i agree 100% with you but you ve missed my point. i am not taking anything away from the other health workers but my point is (in reply to the person who said doctors depend fully on labs and radiology) that CLINICALLY, we can diagnose our patients most times without these other investigations.
before the advent of the CT machine,doctors were able to differentiate between ischeamic and haemorrhagic stroke CLINICALLY. these days CT has made it easier.

for the record after the doctor takes a history from his patient(asks questions about the patients complaints,duration,family history,drug history e.t.c) and examines the patient,the doctor pretty much has an idea what is wrong with the patient 85% of the time. labtests and radiological investigations are CONFIRMATORY. a good doctor hardly depends on these ancillary investigations. why would i need a lab investigation or an ultrasound scan to diagnose and treat acute appendicitis? i dont need lab work to treat malaria. that is why a doctor by virtue of his training is the key variable in the equation.

the doctors own the hospitals
the pharmacists own pharmaceutical companies. that is why i think a doctor SHOULD NOT HEAD NAFDAC FOR WHATEVER REASON.
standalone laboratories should be headed by lab technologists NOT labs that are part of hospitals

kachy: You seem not to know the difference between radiographer and radiologist. Besides that, both do not work in laboratories. Google is your friend. Try visiting more often. And for the records, whenever anybody you know falls sick, make sure you don't visit a doctor since God would have probably finished punishing all the doctors by then.

Oduduwaboy: Guy! stop exhibiting ignorance.
A consultant Surgeon has proficiency in a vast array of life-saving & life-improving operations. What will be the value of a consultant nurse, physiotherapist or lab technician ( yes, not scientist) in a hospital setting...

Your agitations are nothing more than a selfish scheme to earn salaries similar to doctors' despite not having the same academic pedigree or value to the society.

....this your post is the long and short of it...

barcanista: With such mentality, you doctors can GO TO HELL! Glorified First Aid Treatment that you lot are giving while the real deal is done in India.


Overrated bunch

.......OGA please fly your family to India and leave us be.na fight go to Upth and see the inferior quality MRI and ultrasound machines there. yet we manage to help our patients.channel your frustrations to you govt and not the Nigerian doctors.

Nigerians are just funny. you escape from the Nigerian trained doctors, run to the US and UK and get treated by the same Nigerian trained doctors.doesn't it tell you something is fundamentally wrong with our system

Dragonking: i will rather waste all my fortune going abroad to seek medical attention from people who care and values the human lives than to sit here and die in anguish waiting for one selfish doctor who is going on indefinite strike just for his pocket and his selfish ego..

then prepare to go the way of Dora akunyili.

gmyguy: when yáll run to india and the uk etc...to worship foreign doctors and spend all your family savings and church contributions. you forget how you ridicule your home grown docs. When you should be trying to make things better, so you don't have to go bankrupt to get good healthcare. Cry foul, all you want, till you need a doctor and see where the problem really lies, not in the doctor, but the stupid system we call a government.

our people are funny I tell you. Nigerian doctors are quacks yet Dora akunyili was diagnosed in Nigeria and misdiagnosed abroad.funny lot. fly your families out. the Nigerian doctors don't care anymore. we have lost your sympathy, so have you lost ours. during this strike, none of you should dare see a doctor whether public or private.go to the pharmacists and nurses.they ll sort you out. look at the rubbish Nigerians are saying about their doctors.pathetic.you can't cough where you senators, reps and governors are BUT you want to crucify one of the few groups of people who actually work everyday then you wonder why our country is in shambles.a people who worship criminals and demonise the hard working ones. I repeat anything you people see during this strike, endure it!

barcanista: With due respect sir, it is an INSULT to akin an ordinary court clerk to JOHESU guys. The Health sector is not the exclusive preserve of Physicians. Other health professionals are not "Junior Colleagues" to Medical Doctors. The arrogance of Medical Doctors towards other health Professionals is making the Doctors unpopular by the day. I personally support and advocate for equal right in the Health Sector.
Only You guys want to be Health Ministers, States Health Commissioners, CMD and Medical Directors, and now you are pushing and blackmailing government for the office of Surgeon General of the Federation. GREEEEED

very good. leave us make we go strike.when any member of your family goes Ill please go and see johesu in the hospitals.we have left the hospitals for them,since doctors are not the ones patients go to see. for the record THE HOSPITALS EXIST BECAUSE OF THE DOCTORS.PATIENTS COME TO SEE DOCTORS.THE OTHER STAFF ARE SUPPORT STAFF. most of you here should pray that you have no health emergencies during this strike.just pray hard!

barcanista: What is wrong with Physicians? What is the basis for the strike? I think the Government need to sue them to NIC and take necessary action. They can't continue to blackmail the government and using patients' lives as bargain tool.


Meds Sucks

before you judge, ask what the problem is about. we are striking TODAY so that you may not lose that your little sister or son TOMORROW. calm down and ask for explanations. what is going on now is akin to the clerks in a law court asking to be made chief judges. barcanista does that make sense? I ask you.

Acidosis: The point is, the position is opened for Professors, regardless of academic or non-academic affiliations.

what does the above mean? what do you mean by non academic professorship?

obayaya: If their hazard allowance for sitting in their offices making useless diagnosis should be at Least 100k, How much should the hazard allowance for lab scientists, Radiologists who are exposed to greater hazards in the laboratories nko?

Na God go punish NMA

oga 100k is too small. if you know what I face everyday at work,you won't type this. but the issue of hazard allowance should be relative.the people at the labs both the doctors and the technologists should earn the highest followed by the rsdiographers then maybe the surgeons. if I contact Hiv during a surgery is 100k enough to wipe out the stigma or restore my health? do you know how much your senators earn as newspaper allowance every month? no make me vex this morning o!

Acidosis: lol see intimidation. Heaven knows I will never had sacrificed my ego for hospital jobs if I had studied Pharmacy, lol (I dislike hospitals anyway). I would rather open a mega pharmacy store, get loan for a pharmaceutical firm, or settle with academics, research or NAFDAC.

I pity JOHESU

Meanwhile, the bolded is a du. mb reasoning The post of a Vice Chancellor is opened for experienced Profs (Appointment in some cases) even if you studied Fine & Applied Arts, your discipline is irrelevant.

you have missed the point with your last paragraph.please comprehend

nannymcphee: Pls what will be the function of surgeon general ?

What is the current hazard allowance of doctors per month?

Why don't they want the medical lab science council to import in-Vito diagnostics?

hazard allowance is 5000 naira across board.is it not laughable? with risk of contaminating HIV, hep c, hep B,getting sterile from x rays and so on.

eaglechild: Those clamouring to become consultants should please look at the way residency program is structured.

I hope they realise that they will need to do the following.

Establish colleges for different fields.

Establish faculties for different subspecialties.

Have trained "consultants" in different subspecialties.

Cease to become permanent members of staff of hospitals, and have their appointment terminated at the time of expiration of the program.

Undergo training a minimum of 4 years equivalent to at least a post PhD.(almost impossible given that their first degrees are not at par with MBBS). Involving novel clinical research.

Be ready to have their appointments terminated if they fail to pass college exams.

GOD bless you.you want to be called a consultant without going through the extra post graduate training required.the consultant nurses and pharmacists abroad have just their first degree abi?do you know what extra degrees they have acquired to earn the title consultant? look let's not be deceived,the aim of all this is to earn the same as a doctor which is impossible and will be fiercely resisted.the reasoning will be that why can't a consultant radiographer earn the same as a consultant gynaecologist after all they are both consultants.well in my opinion we doctors should leave the title for them and use something else.I don't care AS LONG as they do not earn the same.THE RELATIVITY MUST EXIST. the mediocre cannot head the exceptional students.it will never happen in the health system. why can't the position of VC in our universities be open to both SSANU and NASU since they are made up of graduates? JOHESU will not like how this drama will end.the final and inevitable destination will be privatization when the government has felt they have had enough and we all know who the biggest losers will be.to catch a glimpse of what that future will be like,visit the health department in maybe shell or LNG and look at the hierarchy in place.

tuoyoojo: Just heard on the news (indepedent television) that nma has gotten an industrial court order stopping the implemention of the joint health union's demands and asked all parties involved to shelf any industrial action until d matter is resolved in a d court. So maybe d strike may not hold

johesu's outrageous demands are not the only reason for the nma/nard strike

please mods,move to front page.

rising from their respective emergency delegates meeting, the national association of resident doctors (NARD) and the nigerian medical association (NMA), have called for an indefinite strike from 00.00hrs july 1st.

notice is hereby given to the general public to visit the hospitals and get healthcare from the consultant pharmacists,lab technologists,nurses,optometrists,physiotherapists and radiographers.
these other healthcare providers will clerk you,examine you,interprete your lab results,interprete your radiographs/CT's,carry out your surgeries,give you appropriate drugs and nurse you back to health.

so in effect,you will get your standard world-class care without the doctors.dont be afraid!

in johesu we trust!!!!!!


n/b: the general public is also by this notice informed that they must resist any attempt to discharge their relatives from hospitals,they should insist on getting healthcare from the other staff.

kid celebrities being admired by their fellow kids on nairaland.

YourHealthlabs: Lol, My superior?...
House officer i checked the Laboratory organogram i only saw, Pricinpal, Chief Scientists and Director(Scientist) above me. Where did you fit in?

My knowlege is basic but i've given you the opportunity to prove your 'superior knowlege' of laboratory proceedures and methodology, you declined.

if you think i ll do this back and forth with you this afternoon,you no dey serious.bros you no reach.i ll look for a 3Rd mb student to give you his time.not me!you cant replace the pathologists but they can replace you comfortably.thats why they earn more.respect that fact and there ll be peace.the house boy in a home can never replace the oga.sorry about my condescending attitude but please KNOW YOUR PLACE!

0key: @yourhealthlabs, now I know u are really crude, immature n egocentric, and also exhibiting idiocy of d highest degree. When next u are writing a botanical name of a species sharing the same letters with other species' names, learn to write it in full for d sake of differentiation unless u had ur biology n microbiology courses in vain(which I think u did). Note E.coli could still mean Escherichia coil.

As u went to Google to read up the assignment I gave u, u should have had d patience to read and understand what u don't know instead lifting up the keywords to use here to display ur folly and massage ur worthless ego. Till u let me know how to determine viral load of HIV patients n confirmation of HIV in 2 week old baby, then I'll take it that u r not serious. U share d same level with 4th year medical students because they know virtually all u know n u can't compare urself with pathologists. if u are pained by this raw truth, learn to live with it.

As for Vibrio cholera, NMA chairman was right to say lab investigation is not d paramount. If u were a doctor, u would know that the clinical signs and symptoms of cholera are easily recognizable and it's a medical emergency which requires prompt treatment. To do test is for formality, just to build d medical record. When u see a case of cholera, then u will not open ur mouth to talk like a slowpoke.

In Abeokuta, there was an outbreak of cholera some months ago, some people lost their lives because they either went to lab, Church or pharmacy shop for quack treatment, and when their conditions worsened, they were taken to hospital and it became BID( brought in dead). In my own facility, none of them that came straight lost his life even without testing cos it was emergency and signs are clear.

Another case that came up was a middle aged woman who walked into our facility with massive leg swelling, breathlessness on exertion etc. part of the history was she had been receiving treatment illegally in a popular lab center for malaria and typhoid ( their favourite words) after subjecting this woman to unnecessary and expensive tests. Despite that this woman was gradually going down and her condition worsening. Then her daughter suggested they go to d hospital. The final diagnosis was Congestive cardiac failure . the rest is history.
I think it's time all these nefarious activities by these quacks are put in check by FG. we need policies to fight this illegalities in our system to save lives.

Finally, it's like u don't know that u are having a discussion with medical doctors who are well read from simple basic science courses to anatomy, biochemistry, physiology, pathology, pharmacology, paediatrics, obs n gynae, community medicine n public health, surgery n pure medicine and yet we are still reading. Don't assume u r discussing with ur colleagues or some touts by bringing up childish assumptions like culturing of Candida albican.
Yes, auxiliary nurses run basic tests like widal, grouping n cross matching, bleeding donor,mp under microscope, wbc etc under supervision by doctors or matron nurses because they are easy.

THIS is d last time I'll correct ur foolish assumptions. Have a swell time

bros you get time o! Just tell the dude to buy a jamb form and do the needful.hes throwing around big words forgetting hes talking to his superiors..lol.@yourhealthlabs...look you should be discussing with 3rd mb students.your knowledge is BASIC.do not attempt to compare yourself to a resident in pathology.that would be like comparing an ant to an elephant.i soun proud but its the truth.

dBard: This is just wat people don't seem to get.
The legislature in most states r playthings of d govs. R/S esp. It was particularly worrisome last year wen dey went t Pledge Allegiance t d gov..d supposed checks
The said budget as well was passed within minutes without (I.m.o) proper deliberation on d fine points of d budget.
The sitting outside d chambers maybe all good n legal, but am afraid its setting a bad precedence that may ve ripple effect within dis n subsequent govts.

by the way what is your take on the ahoada court bombing, the arrest of bipis boys with arms and his refusal to sign an undertaking of good behaviour? Or you pretended not to read any of the above in the news?

dBard: This is just wat people don't seem to get.
The legislature in most states r playthings of d govs. R/S esp. It was particularly worrisome last year wen dey went t Pledge Allegiance t d gov..d supposed checks
The said budget as well was passed within minutes without (I.m.o) proper deliberation on d fine points of d budget.
The sitting outside d chambers maybe all good n legal, but am afraid its setting a bad precedence that may ve ripple effect within dis n subsequent govts.

but if dem no pay you for january, na you go first come here come complain.you no go meet police commissioner mbu or madam patience.you go come nairaland dey rain abuses on amaechi.see as you dey blow grammar.lol