₦airaland Forum

they want to earn specialist allowance WITHOUT the responsibility that comes with it..... .

i have asked them to furnish us with links showing us the qualifications needed for 'consultancy' in any of the allied health professions AND where these 'consultants' are based.. hospital or non-hospital based??

they have not done this but prefer emotions and sentiments

we are heading somewhere gradually.
i am happy with obembe's reply.he is learning fast.the decision to call off does not lie with him and if he takes any decision to the contrary,then he should get ready for an impeachment.

It is also high time NMA ask for the sack of the health minister. he is grossly incompetent.
ASUP have suspended their 10month old strike thanks to shekarau who has spent barely a week in office.
it is not difficult to call a roundtable of FG,NMA,MDCAN,NARD and JOHESU to trash these things once and for all.

IN a bid to resolve the indefinite strike embarked upon by members of the Nigeria Medical Association (NMA), the House of Representatives Committee on Health Monday summoned the Minister of Finance, Dr. Ngozi Okonjo Iweala.

Also to appear before the Mr. Ndudi Elumelu-led committee at a meeting billed to hold on Thursday this week are the Head of Service (HOS) , Alhaji Goni Bukar Aji, Secretary to the Government of the Federation (SGF), Senator Anyim Pius Anyim, Health minister, Mr. Onyebuchi Chukwu and his Labour counterpart, Mr. Emeka Nwogu.

Elumelu, who met for several hours with stakeholders in the health sector at the National Assembly complex, remarked that the presence of the finance minister is necessary in view of the need to resolve issues relating to outstanding arrears of monies owed the striking doctors.

The lawmaker who expressed concern over the absence of the finance minister at the parley was informed by the health minister who was in attendance that about N6.7 billion was required to settle monies owed the aggrieved doctors.

Chukwu also promised to clarify by Thursday via a freshly written circular the government position on the controversy surrounding the post of deputy chairman of the Medical Advisory Committee (DCMAC) which is a bone of contention between government and the NMA.

The minister had told the lawmakers that the subsisting circular on the issue was suggestive of the fact that once the tenure of the serving DCMAC expires, the position shall remain vacant pending the outcome of the Yahaya report

The NMA President, Mr. Kayode Obembe, who led officials of the union to the parley said contrary to notion held in certain quarters, doctors were actually not interested in the strike.

He explained that the action became necessary when it became obvious that government was not keen on meeting their demands, some of which had been on ground for the past 22 years.

Obembe maintained that aside the issue of settlement of outstanding claims, doctors would not suspend the strike until the key issues of ‘skipping and relativity’ are addressed. Obembe insisted that the question of who takes the last clinical decision must be answered before his members would call off the strike.

At the start of the parley, the trio of Elumelu, Nworgu and Chukwu had pleaded with the Obembe-led executive members to take a cue from their polytechnic counterparts by suspending the strike in the interest of the suffering masses of the country.

Obembe said such request was beyond his powers to approve since it would require the endorsement of the emergency delegate meeting of the NMA drawn from the 36 states of the federation.

source:http://ngrguardiannews.com/news/national-news/170864-reps-summon-okonjo-iweala-anyim-others-over-doctors-strike

Morotov1: Debate indeed, if this is called a debate then I bow out.
Debate are built on facts, empirical evidence, critical reasoning, thinking and logic but these NMA and JOHESU brouhaha is lacking the vital characteristics instead it has excess of sentiments, semantics, derogatory remarks and name calling.
I'd rather debate on strategies that will get Nigerian health indices above other countries in Africa than this.

very funny. because you ve seen a Nigerian who is asking the right questions. you people are lucky we are in Nigeria,a country with dull leaders and dull people.a country where insane things are given consideration. its a pity really

Dazzlee: I get what you're saying. And I agree with you, no one wants to be cheated on. I won't want to be cheated on too - I guess that answers your question.

But then, I still wonder, is the title 'consultant' only meant for doctors? Because to my understanding, a consultant is someone who has a broad knowledge about a particular subject and is emloyed to give advice about it to other people.

Btw, @bolded.....I'm a lady. And thanks for the correction. Radiographer, radiologist.....got it!

you are very correct as per your second paragraph.
truth is if the lab guys disappear, a doctor can always ask his patient to do his lab work in town.
a radiographer is licensed to 'expose' or 'photograph' the patient. a radiologist who happens to be a doctor who has specialized in that field INTERPRETS or REPORTS the image.
radiographers are not licensed to interprete these images. it is NOT part of their training. dont let them decieve you.any who does is committing an illegality.
the doctor (radiologist)STILL has the final say as regards diagnosing the patient.
the radiographers man the technical aspect of the whole thing but can't and are not supposed to interprete.
what nma is saying is that why make them consultants when there is no extra training and as such will not add value.
as a patient what are you consulting a consultant radiographer for? the radiologist is the only person that can answer the question...'what is the diagnosis?'

retroviruses are single stranded RNA viruses. they are not DNA viruses.
the 'retro' in their family name indicates the ability to replicate using the hosts DNA genome via an enzyme; reverse transcriptase.
the hepatitis viruses are all RNA except B which is a dna virus.

JP I wanted to suggest you open a new thread when I read your comment in the other thread.I am happy you ve done the needful.
mods please move this to the front page. thanks

Aura2: Sorry honey, you cannot be a consultant with this kwashiokor curriculum you are running, if you cannot expand it to be broad as much as the doctor's, then the academically superior doctor just have to be your CMD.
Since you people did not pick beans in the university, why are the patients dying in the absence of the doctors?

........and I thought I was blunt...lol

prettyprettywow: He is helping NMA return to work without shame. He is trying to save NMA's face, you can call off strike with reason that you guys heeded to his advise, . But you guys won't see it that way. I trust Jonathan to do the right thing. Some of your colleagues have returned to work, and I expect you to join them. You guys think once you issue strike threat, govt will succumb as usually. Sorry, it's no longer business as usual. The strike has entered 2weeks yet no show.

like I said in one of my earlier posts,you people(johesu,FG and the ignorant Nigerian public)are in the very early stages of grief particularly denial and anger.
we will call of the strike when you all enter the stage of acceptance!
uduaghan is just the first of many to PUBLICLY BEG. more to come.

any of you close to this man should help me ask him
1.what percentage of his states budget goes to healthcare?
2.is delta state university teaching hospital up to date as regards equipment and personnel??
3.has he or any member of his family sought treatment in DELSUTH?
4.Did he undergo residency training even for a day?
5. government shouldnt negotiate with terrorists,so why is he now begging us after calling us terrorists
6.he was part of the negotiating team that signed on the january 2014 MOU with doctors.why hasnt that MOU been implemented? yet he and his 'friends' hurriedly signed another one.
7.why hasnt he done a similar plea to the federal government??
8.what has he and his mediocre of an OGA in abuja done about the real terrorists
9.what has he and his oga at the top done about the chibok girls
10. "I shall do all in my power to defend the HONOUR and noble TRADITIONS of Medicine" ... . This part of the Hippocratic oath supports the strike.do you still remember the oath sir
11.My dear Dr Governor, kindly be reminded that All Mission Hospitals and All Private Hospitals nationwide are open to attend to the health needs of Nigerians.i hope he knows
12.sir,if you are so moved with compassion,why dont you pick up your steth. and help the people you can help abi are you no longer a doctor
13.my dear governor i also want to remind you that you and your cronies have killed more people via corruption than this strike ever will.

they hate us soo much.we dont know why. please help us by picking one of the reasons below:

skelewu74: Are you not the mad woman they are talking about? You should be housed in a mental asylum. Your next idiotic statement will clearly confirm your mental illness. Oya say it.

drered: I doubt the above is true. A pharmacist will never cancel a doctor's prescription without getting back to the doctor first and if he does and the doctor insists the most he will do is ask the doctor to counter-sign. if by any chance he did then it is unethical and he can be reported with appropriate actions taken but then the above is still a conjecture. Even if by any slim chance this is true you can't on that basis say that Nigeria isn't ripe for the pharmacists input. Its just like saying all doctors are irrelevant cuz of mis-diagnosis which is common anyways or iatrogenic conditions caused by a group of doctors. You think pharmacist don't know that drugs are used for their side effects? LOL. Truth is MD's undermine pharmacists. The pathophysiology of all disease conditions are also thought extensively among other things. Its the same way doctors know "little" about drugs that pharmacists know a "little" about anatomy, pathology etc. Thing now is let pharmacists be experts in their field.

I have no problems with that at all. I would try and get the full details from colleagues including the center.
as a house officer and even when I worked for a while in clinical medicine ,I never saw pharmacists in the wards for one day.I kid you not.
they have totally abandoned their job description. nobody is stopping the pharmacists from going on rounds with doctors.I don't or can't see or imagine doctors refusing to go on rounds with pharmacists or stopping them from doing their own rounds.
our pharmacists have learned to enjoy dispensing drugs when they shouldn't be doing that at all.

skelewu74: Thank you too, brother. Thought you saw it when she earlier insulted me?

dont worry about that.she came across to me as a sensible person.if you feel insulted,tell her. she ll apologise.

at UCH where this whole consultant nurse wahala started,a 'consultant' nurse had the effrontery to tell a surgeon that he couldnt open a wound until after a certain time period AS DICTATED BY THE NURSE.
my brother drered,you seem sensible so let me ask you,is that not encroachment into another persons job?
a nurse? haba somethings are somehow.
i can assure you,if the other health workers are allowed to be consultants when its obvious that patient care is not uppermost,we will have problems in this country.
NMA is shouting itself hoarse now. you all think we doctors are mad people BUT on the contrarywe are the only ones that appear to see where this whole thing is headed AND my brother,i assure you, it will not end well.
unfortunately,its the nigerian people WHO WILL LOSE not the doctors believe it or not. we are not asking nigerians to protect or stand up for the doctor(that is what they think) but we are asking that they stand WITH US AS WE PROTECT THEM. that is what doctors are doing.
i rest my case.

drered: Educate me sir on how Nigeria is not ready or do you just mean Nigerian doctors are not ready to allow this?

honest to God my brother,i would be the last person to hinder another mans progress but after JOHESU got that judgemnt from the NIC,it is on record that a group of pharmacists invaded one of the wards in one of the teaching hospitals in the east(i will get the name.for some reason,people are reluctant to call the name of the place) and went on a prescription cancelling spree.
one of them cancelled a drug from a list of drugs that a cardiologist had penned down for a man in heart failure.reason that particular drug had terrible side effects and should have been replaced with something else.
now,he cancelled a drug without seeing the physician involved.he didnt even know WHETHER IT WAS ACTUALLY BECAUSE OF THAT SIDE EFFECT THAT THE PHYSICIAN PRESCRIBED THAT DRUG.
okay even if you dont give a rats a** about the physician,what of the patient? there must be a reason why that patient is on that drug. talking about side effects,the pharmacist knows it by theory,but the physician sees that effect in action.thats why when pharmacists speak of side effects i laugh.
granted,the pharmacists know drugs,they know the effect of the drug on the body AND the effect of the body on the drug BUT DOCTORS ON THE OTHER HAND IN ADDITION TO KNOWING A LITTLE OF WHAT THE PHARMACISTS KNOW,KNOW THE EFFECT OF A DISEASE PROCESS ON THE BODY A.K.A PATHOPHYSIOLOGY AND THE BODY'S RESPONSE TO THAT DISEASE PROCESS.
IN EFFECT SINCE WE KNOW THE PATHWAYS OF A DISEASE PROCESS,WE ARE ADEQUATELY SUITED TO KNOW WHEN TO BRING IN DIFFERENT DRUGS TO ACT AT DIFFERENT LINKS IN THE CHAIN.

so in effect the pharmacist knows his drugs and their effects but the doctor knows HOW to use those drugs to achieve results including exploiting side effects... that is the koko!

clemzo101: this is exactly what I'm talking about.....PRIDE, and dis exactly is what is killing and eating NMA up and I hope dey get disappointed dis tym.........u said beneath.......guess d pharmacists didn't go to skool or may be dey are not graduates or better still dey attended Polytechnic......Bleep NMA.....mtchewwww

i am deeply sorry. bad choice of words from me BUT the truth is obembe couldnt have honoured that invite.no way...

drered: Such ignorance. Expected though cos the word "Teamwork" is foreign to Nigerian MD's.. What independent decisions? Look. Nobody is trying to take "your patients" from you. The idea is for all of you to work collectively in improving patient care and therapeutic outcome. Everyone will have the scope of their duties clearly stated to prevent encroaching. The pharmacist will advise you on drug therapy, measure drug serum concentrations, manage medication regimens in polypharmacy, give inputs to optimise use of medication, identify potential and adverse drug reactions, give suitable alternatives in contra indications. The pharmacist still ends up running this by you. Basically, you put heads together and at the end improved therapeutic outcome!

if you believe the bolded,then you ll believe anything. nigeria is not ripe for the bolded. the bolded is the ideal thing to do but as at today,have you seen any pharmacist counsel the doctors on drug use,polypharmacy etc

skelewu74: You would need your head checked, Oh dear nurse. Normal people don't point to an exception in say Uk, or Kwait (something he doesn't even understand in their own context) and seek to use it to establish a norm in other places.

Is that how you do in nursing? It's like this NHS stuff is freaking you, but you don't even understand the implications of running an entity as a Trust, or a Foundation. I am really scared talking to you. If your skull is not too thick for this to penetrate, get in sunk in that those hospitals are run as corporations and what you are having there is not different from what you expect from the running of corporate holdings.

You are not only deficient in understanding administration of health systems but also that of corporate affairs.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust_law

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust_law

AGAIN, our hospitals are not corporate holdings. They are not independent. We run the conventional hospital management system, which is still operating in UK too. The Trusts and Foundation Trusts you are bragging about are not all there are to uk health system. And its merit is still being debated:

//Initial reservationsAt the outset some critics pointed out that Foundation Trusts go against the spirit of the principles laid out by Aneurin Bevan (who founded the NHS). Others feared that it would lead to a two-tier system. [11]Others doubted whether the Foundation Trust members would succeed in having any effective influence over hospital management. A study undertaken in 2005 by the King's Fund of Homerton University Hospital NHS Foundation Trustfound some governors disappointed and disillusioned. Another report found that it was too easy to invite members to sit on sub-committees, where they quickly became bogged down in the minutiae of operational planning, whilst the main decisions were taken at meetings that they only heard about after they took place.[12]This study was funded by theNuffield Foundation.//

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHS_foundation_trust

As you can see from above, this thing you are talking about is a later comer to the NHS. Introduced barely 8years ago, and not universal. That must tell you that the England's hospitals have reached the elevated status they are through the conventional way.

You claimed its because doctors have always been at the management of Nigerian hospital that we are where we are today. Oh, silly you. And if you have the intellect to understand simple things, you would easily deduce that it's government attitudes to its own institutions that messed everything up, and the health sector is no exception. Look at NIPOST, NITEL, Railway system, Educational institutions. This is problem from bad governance. And Every sector has its share of it.

I do not expect you to understand anything I said here. You have demonstrated your lack of ability to make just comparison. And even when the facts are laid before you, you can't see.

..........dont you just love arguements based on facts? see links.. that is what i want to see on this and other threads instead of insults. thank you brother

[quote author=jpphilips][/quote]JP if you are looking for a mind blowing logical argument from any of them,forget it. they will hit you from all corners with emotions and sentiments it ll make your head spin....lol
you want to earn specialist allowance by doing the things you normally do.no extra training.no addition to patient care yet you want to earn the same with the people who actually work in this country, and expect them to sit and watch while you all earn fat allowances for doing absolutely nothing. very funny.
I repeat...let our pharmacists do more than dispensing drugs and we might just begin to consider taking y'all seriously.
our nurses should endeavor to do more than give oral drugs and insult the living daylights out of patients THEN we may be able to discuss.
until then, the FG ,the ignorant public &JOHESU are still in the very early stages of grief...DENIAL,ANGER&BARGAINING.
NMA will call of the strike when we all enter the last stage...ACCEPTANCE.

Ibadan is crazy cheap! I confirmed that city when I bought 200 naira rice beans and plantain at ABH canteen, UCH.
the same meal in PH wouldn't be less than 500 naira
I got scared when I couldn't finish it.
it was the same thing in town.
3 bedroom flat at Ibadan no go reach 200k.

drcakes: In his reaction, the Chairman, Joint Health Staff Union (JOHESU), Mr. Moses Shausu, said the strike had paralysed activities in public hospitals in the state.

“You know that services in a hospital is a team work; so if a doctor is not on duty for consultation services, there will be a problem because other staffers will find it difficult to carry out ANCILLARY SERVICES, that is the effect of this strike.”

.........ancillary services....now we are getting somewhere gradually....lol

yeah any links proving that nurses head PUBLIC hospitals in the UK or the US would be very much appreciated

misterawo: ur name is Uloha Ifeanyi. U wer once in med/surg of unn. Later failed out 2 enta rehab. Either u failed out in 1st yr or 2nd mb. Nw I ask, wil ur position b d same if u r a dr?

seriously?

Rilamaka: You still missed the point! Who becomes a manager without undertaking a managerial post? Nigerian doctors of course lol!

You guys are funny. Smh. Of course she had to take the management course thats what people in civilised countries do Mr! Did u understand anything I wrote at all? Smh

madam take a deep breath and relax. your link shows that apart from the chief executive there is a medical executive director who is equivalent to our CMD.
that is why I still think there should be an overall executive in our teaching hospitals who can be anyone with a management training.

Rilamaka: I thank you for your wonderful observation, firstly noting that the highest position in the NHS is left open for "Anyone" and not just the doctors. (But your beloved doctors seem to think otherwise.)

Secondly the CMD is a doctor understandably so, so is the CNO. I hope you get that right. Now if you look at the flow chart you will see (or maybe you forgot to observe) that both the CMD and CNO are under the CEO who happens to be a Nurse! Now I don't think any doctor in Nigeria would like that, no way! Afterall that's what they are fighting for.

My point? Great that anybody can be the CEO/Chairman as long as they have the right training, skills, experience and are competent to do so and because they are "doctors" or own a medical degree.

Lastly I am a "she" you also failed to observe that.

she is the chief executive NOT because she is a nurse.that is the point.
doctors are saying that in the teaching hospitals the post of CMD should be left to doctors like in your link.

Rilamaka: Excuse me I can see that you are not intelligent. Did you see the words CLINICAL I highlighted it for you. Obviously she would not just be the Chief executive just like that, (for some reason only doctors in Nigeria think that they are qualified to jump into management positions just because they have medical degree, is that not laughable? And for you to base ur arguement on that, pfft what more can i say? Mediocrity and small thinking at its highest peak!)

For someone who has such an ambition to move up, you definitely have to gain more training in management which means deviating a little bit from her NURSING background because her role is becoming "Less Clinical" and more managerial.

So in future if you want to point out an error in judgement or dispute the relevance of an article (such as the link I posted), try to understand what their point is before doing so.

I don't think you have the capacity but I will try to spell it out for clarity sake since you are dumb.

Her background is NURSING and I posted this link so you could see with your eyes and expand your line of reasoning that positions as such as this, are not doctors' birth right as you stated clearly that it's not right for someone from other disciplines to lead the hospital.

This link my proves you wrong and among other things goes a long way to show that you are a narrow minded individual who does not see anything beyond what's already in place.

Be it a medical doctor or whatever, who goes all the way to the top without taking management courses? That only happens in Nigeria, so u see u r argument is deeply flawed even more than the decaying health sector in Nigeria headed by power grabbing, incompetent and disgustingly greedy doctors who feel that being at the top is their birthright.

Get it right fo.ol.

have i insulted you in anyway? I thought we were having a civil debate? na wa o! anyway I will not return fire.

read the post above this from skelewu.
she is chief executive not because she is a nurse BUT because she's also got administrative training and experience.

............and in other news, this cup belongs to Germany. it shall not pass over them....

but wait o!! let me ask. do you still see that word written backwards when an ambulance drives past you or parked physically infront of you?

Sagamite: person, trust me, I don't need to strike about salary.

How I no go fit chop when I know more about patient care than you that call yourself a "Doctor"?

I know you have reached the point and I know it hurts. Awwwwn!

https://www.nairaland.com/1407845/expatriates-indepth-analysis-corruption-nigeria/10#17679651

I always do my best to get people to that point early.

yep ....you are right. totally forgot you are not employed (in what ever form i might add )

Poly87: I always notice that the word "AMBULANCE" is written is the reverse order "ECNALUBMA" on the vehicle. Why is it like that?

...................where did you see it? are you blonde by any chance?

the americans season 1........top notch!