₦airaland Forum

Bwahahahahahahaha . . . . men this anioma of a thing is giving people sleepless night oooo and to think we are just starting self.

If you captain suarez abeg raise your hand jor . . . .

tonychristopher: We know the core deltans and Edwin Clark made it clear. If not why looking for anioma state. Lol ....what an ostrich principle . My brother wake up from slumber

The message was not meant for you actually so don't wet your boxers please, its getting embarrassing as you keep on going from page to page with this obsession.

Some claimed not to be from delta state but only lived in warri but kept on using we core deltans lol like we do not actually know where they came from . . .

It is a joy when you ruffle some feathers with facts and see them shaking like a wet duck.

Afam4eva: You see not to understand the Igbo concept at all. What is wrong in Igbo(which is not the name of any Igboid tribe) being used to describe the Igboid groups? It's not like using Onitsha to refer to all of us. There's no place called Igbo, so no group has exclusive rights to that name more than anyone else. Of course we could name the group Laptop, Bia or we could also name it Igbo. I wonder why you guys are apprehensive about the term "Igbo". Ika will always be Ika, Ukwuani will always be Ukwuani, Same with Nkanu, Ngwa, Ikwerre but these people can be under the Igbo umbrella which is more like an Association of like minded peeps. That's what the whole concept of Ethnicity is. That's why it's a different concept from tribe.

Inside the igboid tribes, there is clearly igbo as one of the listed groups so i don't know why you guys keep saying there is nothing like that. It is not about place, it is about identity, inside that group there is ika, ukwuani and there is also igbo so it is clear from the point am coming from. Ndokwa is already an ethnicity and it is made up of ukwauni and aboh people so i don't know why we have to still be inside the igbo ethnicity again. Nkanu and ngwa are not ethnic groups but classified as clans or sub groups inside the igbo ethnic group.

Please a dutch does not need to be shouting everywhere that a german is germanic before they can associate with each other. Be whatever you want to be and i can be whatever i want to be, if there is need for association we will associate simple. See this is the 21st century and every igboid group knows that the word igbo was used to show association between us. So you as an igbo man or Nkanu man should look at the others as your brothers and you definitely don't have to refer to them as igbos. Keep the generic igbo term in your cupboard because we don't need that before we can relate, call yourself igbo and i call myself ukwuani then we can relate on that level. Ukwuani is equal to igbo and not under igbo, this is same for Ika and ikwerre also.

Afam4eva: @Pharoh
You made a mistake with your ethnologue source. That page divided the Igboid groups into two - Ekpeye and Igbo. Under the Igbo(not Igboid) classification, that's where you have Ikwerre, Ukwuani etc. Incidentally, you have Ezza and Izzi which are undoubtedly Igbo groups under that grouping. They're invariably saying that Ukwuani is a language under the Igbo umbrella and not just Igboid.

The most important thing is always the igboid, yoruboid or edoid, the further classification of it is not relevant. They could also say category a and category b or northern igboid and southern igboid. You guys keep saying that there is no one group called igbo but the reality is that no one knows you as mbaise, Nkanu because you have been given the term igbo. The list below are the dialects of the igbo language so you can see why they call you guys igbo and your language igbo.

Afikpo ( awka ),Aniocha ( ezilo ), Bonny-opobo (igbo ), Eche ( ishiela ),Egbema ( isuama ) ,Igbo ( Nkalaga ),Igbo Asaa ( Nkalaha ),Mbaise(Umuhuali ),Ngwa,Nsa,Nsuka,Oguta,Ohafia,Ohuhu,Oka,Onitsha,Orlu,Owerri,Umuahia,Union,Unwana.

There are many ethnologue sources that stated the reason for the classification and this is because ekpeye is so different and if you remove ekpeye then they will remove the igbo sub grouping and it will remain igboid. So all of them are igboid or how does it make sense to you that ukwuani and igbo are also listed under the igbo sub grouping. You guys get excited each time you see igbo anywhere but you don't understand the rational behind listing igbo as the sub group and also as part of the sub group. Same way igbo was listed as the generic term and also listed as one of the ethnic groups, you use the name of the largest member to name the group. This is because the possibility of the largest member swallowing the others is very very high.

French swallowed the others and in the same way Spanish is swallowing the others, hence the reason the catalans are distancing themselves from it. Any group who does not protect itself will be swallowed by the larger group but the most important is we are different and free to live as we wish. If you want i can post academic sources for you explaining why those languages are igboid and not igbo so lets leave it at the igboid level. All of you who come here to shout that ukwuanis are igbos still cannot tell us your ethnic group, clans that make your ethnic group, your ethnic language and dialects of your ethnic language. Give it a try the same way Ika, ukwauni and Ikwerre can conveniently say same for their own identity.

This is a link for the yoruboid language http://www.ethnologue.com/subgroups/yoruboid

Study it and you will now understand the igboid language grouping that i have posted here before.

I have posted the meaning of igbo but you were surprised that igbo is an ethnic group inside the generic igbo term. Ika is an ethnic group and Ukwuani is an ethnic group, both of them are different from the igbo ethnic group. Now to show that the three of them are related, you have to find a common name for them the same way germanic was used to show the relation between german and dutch. the mistake was to use igbo to show the relation, it could be any fucking name like laptop, biafra or whatever and that is not the concern of Ikas or ukwuanis. This is because no matter the name you call it Ika will always go with Ika and ukwuani will always go with Ukwuani.

Inside delta state we are Ika and ukwuani, Inside anioma we are ika and Ukwuani, inside Bendel we are Ika and ukwuani and inside whatever we will always be Ika and ukwuani and not igbo. If you like classify us as igbo, igbonic, igboic or whatever, we will always go about our life and destiny as Ika and Ukwuani.

Afam4eva: It brings us back to your earlier assertion about Ika and Ukwuani not wanting to be part of the Igbo ethnic umbrella. I will respect that rather than you trying to convince us how Ikas are different from the Igbos in the east cos that's a hard sell.

I could also say that i am Nkanu but we speak an Igboid language(Nkanu). Now we have to try to differentiate between Igbo and Igboid. What's the difference?

When you meet a german, he does not tell you that he is germanic, an austrian does not tell you that he is germanic and a dutch does not tell you that he is germanic even if they all know germanic shows a relation between them. They all go about their daily life with their ethnic identity which are german, austrian and dutch.

Now Ika is an ethnic group, ukwuani is an ethnic group inside the generic igbo name and just like germans, austrians and dutch do not go about with the germanic term is the same way an Ika and ukwuani will not go about their daily life as igbo. I am ukwuani the same way an isoko is isoko, urhobo is urhobo even though both of them belong to the Benue generic term and their languages belong to the edoid group.

This is why i asked for your ethnic group and ethnic language, so if that is your ethnic identity and langauge then that is what am going to refer to you and that is how you should go about your daily life. The truth of the matter is that officially all over the world no one listed your ethnic group and ethnic language like that. It was listed as igbo and also igbo for your ethnic language. This is because the whiteman met you guys organized into clans or villages and not as socially organized like the Ikas,Ikwerre and Ndokwas.

If you say Nkanu is your ethnic group then your ethnic group should be made up of clans and villages while at the same time your language should be made up of dialects. So the next logical step is for you to name the clans that make up Nkanu and the dialect of Nkanu language as you said it is an igboid language. There are over thirty clans and villages that make up the Ukwuani-Aboh ( Ndokwa) ethnic group and with three major variations of our language Ukwuani-Aboh-Ndoni.

So for any ethnic group in south eastern nigeria, you will have to tell the clans that make up that group, their language and dialects. Your ethnic group is igbo and ethnic language is igbo. Then after that you join together with Ikas, Ikwerre, Ukwuanis, Mgbo, Ezaa, Izii, ekpeye, ogba and ikwo to fall under the generic igbo term. This generic igbo term is the same as saying someone is germanic, so for an Ika he has to go about his life as Ika, Ukwuani go about as ukwuani and you have to go about as igbo ( given to you by the colonialist ) or Nkanu.

I can paste the list of official dialects of the igbo language if you want.

Afam4eva: Stop confusing yourself. Austrian German and German are the same culturally but different politically. If you ask an Austrian what ethnicity he is, he'll tell you German and will only ass Austrian if he wants to specify. If Austria and Germany were the same country, there will be no need to call it Austrian German as it will only be seen as a dialect of German, the same way the German spoken in different parts of Germany are not exactly the same. Another reason why someone would refer to himself as an Austrian German is because referring himself to a German will confuse people into thinking that he's from Germany. So, he has to highlight the difference.

You are the one confusing yourself, Austrian is the ethnicity while Austrian German is the language they are speaking. It is very funny that you have conveniently avoided to analyze the other ethnic groups within the Germanic identity. Now let me throw it to you, so do the other Germanic people speak German, a dialect of German or their own separate language but part of the Germanic language family?.

Germans are Germans but they speak a Germanic language ( German ) , dutch are dutch but they speak a Germanic language ( Dutch ) .

Ikas are are Ikas but they speak an igboid language ( Ika ) , Ukwuani are ukwuanis but they speak an igboid language ( Ukwuani ).

Now tell us your ethnic group and your language group classification like i have done for germans, dutch, Ikas and Ukwuanis.

Afam4eva: Austria is a nationality and not a language. According to Wikipedia, the language spoken by Austrians is German. Austrians may have a different nationalistic feel different from Germany(the country) but culturally, they're Germans(not just Germanic). They're called Austrian Germans despite the fact that they're in a different country.

This is slightly true and because Germans respect their decision hence they are regarded as a separate Germanic ethnic group today and speak Austrian German and not German. This is the same respect the igbos do not want to regard to other groups within the igbo cluster and this is the whole issue about the identity stuff.

Germanic People
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples

Germanic Languages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_languages

Igboid - http://archive.ethnologue.com/16/show_family.asp?subid=2109-16


Generic term Ethnic groups

Germanic - German, Austria, Dutch, Luxembourg, Lichtenstein
Igbo/igbonic/igboic - Ika, Ukwuani, Ogba, Epkeye, Ikwerre, Ezaa, Igbo, Izii

The above is so simple to understand and if you people cannot understand this classification then it is of no point having this discussion anymore seriously.

^^

Yoruba is not a place same way germanic is not a place so i don't know why you are getting worked up about that. Is igala and itsekiri that are classified as yoruba speaking yoruba language? oyo was the largest in that group and they were speaking oyo but colonislist called it yoruba and then used it to name the group. Assuming the name of the group was oyo then the egbas will not want to be called that hence the yoruba name was perfect for them and they can all key in to it.

I ethnic group listed as igbo are the igboid speaking groups that do not have a clear ethnic identity or social structure before the whiteman came. So the white man named you guys igbo and gave you the igbo language name and in other to show relations to others with a defined social structure still used that igbo term to classify us. This is the group that were arranged as series of viliages and clans without a defined political structure like they met in other parts of Nigeria. It is you guys that are actually convincing things because if you look clearly you would have seen how germanic was broken down and the name derived from german which is the largest group in that classification.


This is a link to show you where the classification came from http://www.joshuaproject.net/people-clusters.php so you can mess with the link and check numerous groups yourself if you are still in doubt.

@Some-girl

So clearly, the issue isn't grabbing land of those who identify as Igbo after all cos Lagos is clearly not Igbo land. Distancing yourselves from people who could potentially claim your land anyways whether or not you agree to being one of them is pointless after all. That's beside the point however.

No one is distancing from anybody here because i have told you here countless times that igbos are like brothers and family to us. That was an explanation to show a demarcation of defined identity and space and not about distancing oneself.

I'm predominantly from Imo State.

I am asking for your ethnic group identity in the same sense that i call myself Ndokwa or someone calling himself Ikwere or Ika.

Your comment implies that there is an Igbo language which Ika dialects/ languages differ from. Can you please clarify which of the Igbo dialects or Igboid languages (if you prefer to see refer to them as such) is the standard Igbo langauge, which you have compared your dialects/ languages with.

There was no yoruba language, what they did was to pick the language of the most populated ethnic group within the cluster and called it yoruba language and this is the oyo language. Itsekiri is a different language to yoruba language but they belong to the yoruboid language group because of the relationship that exist between them. Now Ukwuani, Ika and Ikwere are related to the created standard or central igbo language because they are not a dialects of it but only shows relationship to it hence the similarities in some words.

What they should have actually done was to pick the language of biggest ethnic group from the south eastern region. Because there was lack of social organization and hierarchical structure in that region, hence there were no defined ethnic groups but collection of clans or villages. They decided to give all of you the igbo ethnic group identity ( imo, abia, anambra and enugu minus ebonyi because they are not igbos ) and in so doing became the largest ethnic group within the igbo cluster.

The cluster name are usually derived out of convenience from the name of the largest ethnic group within the cluster. So ukwuani is my ethnic group inside the igbo cluster while igbo is your ethnic group within the igbo cluster. The name of the cluster can be igbonic, igbonoic, laptop, screen or whatever instead of the present given igbo so the term igbo is irrelevant to Ikas and ukwuanis.

The emboldened statement puzzles me as I believe language and culture are all that is required to establish a relationship between groups. What are the "all other factors" that are different?
If your statement was made in reference to origin, still makes no sense as you know various Igbos groups have different origins and histories.

Please go back to my statement again as i did not dispute what is in bold there because we are both agreeing that it is the primary basis for relationship between groups. The other factors that are different are the factors which differentiates esan, isoko, urhobo and edo people from each other despite all of them being related by language and culture. I am not talking about origin but the essence of each ethnic group, this is the reason an igbo man will meet an ikwere man and wonder to himself that they don't behave like igbos. It is the essence that differentiates each ethnic group but there is no point going into the details because i believe you get the point now.

Unless there is evidence that a place name like "Umunede" was corrupted by Igbo settlers or Umu also means children or something else in Bini langauge and Bini towns/ villages exist which are named in that format, the name indicates the presence of Igbos in the area whether they be indigenous people or fellow migrants, who named the place after Ede, "the Bini migrant".

Words are shared among related languages, sometimes spelt differently or they are different entirely, so the umu word there is an igboid word and not an igbo word because it is not exclusive to the igbo ethnic group only. On the other hand i don't know the reason for the antagonism with Ika people because they have repeatedly said they are a people of mixed origin. People came from benin, igala, igbo, ndokwa, aniocha and all that to form the ika ethnic group.

I understand your argument of not wanting to be grouped as Igbo however even if all Igboid groups were lumped together under a different name, there would still be those who would seek to separate themselves. The Igbo classification isn't the issue.
By the emboldened statement you have admitted to being of the same stock as other Igbo sub groups/ Igboid groups whether or not you choose to dissociate yourselves from the group name.
I think most people who've participated in this debate seek/ sought to make it clear to all that you speak an Igbo dialect/ Igboid language.

I for one, do not dispute your claim that some Ika people have Bini links. This is only natural given your location.

Now you are getting the point but point of correction though is that igboid is a grouping of language only and igbo is grouping of people but in most cases the name of the groups of people is the name of their language also. Now go through the groupings that i will present for you to understand that the name of our grouping is so irrelevant that i don't know why people are worked up about it. Offcourse the name of the group is irrelevant all over the world because each ethnic group have 100 percent right to pursue their ethnic identity in whatever capacity that they so wish.

Group Name --- Ethnic groups

Germanic ----- German, Austria, Dutch, Luxembourg, Lichtenstein
German ----- German, Austria, Dutch, Luxembourg, Lichtenstein
Laptop ----- German, Austria, Dutch, Luxembourg, Lichtenstein


Igbo ----- Ika, Ukwuani, Ogba, Epkeye, Ikwerre, Ezaa, Igbo, Izii
Igbonic ----- Ika, Ukwuani, Ogba, Epkeye, Ikwerre, Ezaa, Igbo, Izii
Igboic ---- Ika, Ukwuani, Ogba, Epkeye, Ikwerre, Ezaa, Igbo, Izii
Laptop ------ Ika, Ukwuani, Ogba, Epkeye, Ikwerre, Ezaa, Igbo, Izii


Anglo-celts ---- British, Scotish, Irish, welsh etc
British ---- British, Scotish, Irish, welsh etc
Laptop ---- British, Scotish, Irish, welsh etc

Yoruba - Oyo, Egba, Igala, Itsekiri, Ife, Ede, akoko, etc
Odua - Oyo, Egba, Igala, Itsekiri, Ife, Ede, akoko, etc
Laptop - Oyo, Egba, Igala, Itsekiri, Ife, Ede, akoko, etc



The ethnic group whose identity was used to name the group will carry it on their head like their life depends on it but it is not so for the others. Europeans are better evolved than us because after the grouping they all went about their different life without disturbing the others in their group. Scandinavian is made of Norwegians, danish, Icelandic and Swedish but they are all going about their different life and destiny so igbos should respect the others in their group.

4. in ika , we have about 6 language variations and the seventh called oza language , so ika is a nation just like bini or isoko or igbo.
5. if isoko that is similar in language to uhrobo resolved with evidence that they are not uhrobo, and esan that has similarities with benins said they are not bini and the bini respected them , then why are the igbos not matured enough to understand that a people who has similarities and also lots of differences with them are a different ethnic group.

Thank you agboaten for this because this is what i have been trying to point out to them but they will not see it. How can someone say ukwuani is a dialect of a created igbo language when there are three major variations of the ukwuani language and slight variations across the clans in both ukwuani and aboh areas. It is that simple respect and recognition that is giving them problems but thank God that Ikas and Ndokwas are organised more than the over 40 million so called igbos.

Even look at the aniocha/oshimili guy that should tune in to our organization expertise in anioma and go on with their enuani language and identity but he wants to kill himself with the igbo identity. Well it is time we just leave these guys to their folly and pursue our destiny as we so wish, a lot is going on behind the scenes but they are just so ignorant.

You guys keep on talking about obi of asagba like he speaks for the whole anioma people, except monarchy in ukwuani land a king does not leave his domain for Christ sake to go and attend meaningless ohaneze meetings. We have our apex organization and just like ikas we are working hard to realize our destiny and forge ahead. Do they even know about the underground coalition to resurrect the midwest or bendel republic again?.

Like i said it is not productive to continue this discussion with you guys because you keep yapping about benin this and benin that but we keep on telling you that we are ikas and ndokwas but the explanation keeps flying off the window. So those who still wants to throw abuse about bini vagabonds can take over the thread for all i care.

igbo boy: as your grouse with afam4eva is putting ikwerre and igbo in the same sentence, my grouse with you is saying ikwerre is not igbo.

Not that I disagree with you. But what is igbo? you make it sound that everybody from abia, ebonyi, anambra, enugu and imo are the of same culture and dialect then Ikwerre is different...

I am from delta state and ebonyi igbo is very funny to me.

It is better if you say that ikwerre is different from Ngwa, aro, oshimili, etc than say igbo because igbos have different history, dialect, practices, and culture depending on what part you come from. So dont think Ikwerre is the only igboid group with a special uniqueness.

Ngwas are unique, Aros are unique..Oshimilli is unique

You keep on missing the point, see igbo is a generic term used to group related people together and this is true for edo and yoruba. Now the bone of contention to make it understandable to you is that there must be clearly defined ethnic groups made up of several clans with their own language and language dialects inside this generic term. Edo for example is made up of isoko, urhobo, bini, esan, afemai etc with each of them having their own language, dialects of it and made up of several clans each. Now because all these language are edoid then you will most certainly have similarities and variations but each of them are not dialects of one another but separate languages.

I don't want to speak too much because am just repeating myself with the people am engaging not getting simple basic points. When you come to the igbo group, it is made up of clearly defined ethnic groups like Ndokwa, Ika, Ikwerre, Ikwo, Mgbo, Izii, ezaa etc. These groups are distinct ethnic groups having their own language and dialects of it. They are made of several clans with their kingship system, the same way i cannot understand ikwerre and ebonyi languages is the same way an oyo person will not understand yorubas close to benin border.

Now coming to the people am referring to as igbos in abia, anambra, imo and enugu state that you always feel to defend. They do not have a clearly defined ethnic identity( it was all villages ) and that is the reason they were given igbo. It is this same word that was used as our generic term and also to group the languages as igboid. Now this was the reason there was difficulty in developing an igbo bible before they opted for the central igbo language. You as an osimili/aniocha clearly belongs to the enuani ethnic group and speak enuani language, this identity extends into anambra with variations in mutually intelligible dialects.

What the so called igbos should do is to clearly tell us their ethnic group, ethnic language and clans in their ethnic group like we have ika, ukwuani, enuani,ikwerre etc. The solution they have created for them is to name them as igbo ethnic group and at the same time belonging to the igbo generic term. Everyone must have triple identity . . . clan - Ethnic group - Generic Nationality, so they are igbos as an ethnic group and also igbo in the generic sense. I am ukwuani as my ethnic group and igbo in the generic sense, isoko is the ethnic group and edo in the generic sense.

Shouting that i am igbo is very offensive because it is same as shouting to an isoko or urhobo person that they are edo. Everyone should promote their ethnic identity and be free to mess with the generic identity as they wish, no one is shouting to a Portuguese that he is iberian because he wants to die and live his life as Portuguese. People should stop disturbing me with the generic igbo term as i always want to live my life as an ukwuani man, same for Ika and ikwerre i believe. Igbo can be your ethnic group for all i care but you have to respect my own ethnic identity and after that we can all converge under a generic term as a family if needed.

In the yoruba generic term, they accepted that term because no one was actually yoruba within the group. It was the oyos that their language was called yoruba and they are the most populated. Scandinavian, Edo and Iberia are all generic terms but the people go about their destiny and daily life with their separate identity. Now here comes the essence of the anioma identity that people do not understand or feel threatened to and will not let us have peace of mind.

Anioma is a generic term that embodies these set of distinct ethnic groups within it, Ika, Enuani, Ulukwumi, Ukwuani-Aboh,Igala, etc. They all have their own languages, dialects of it and grouped into several clans each. They all go about their ethnic identity freely, see each other as one big family through the Anioma identity. In this way the languages are preserved, we can understand each others language through interaction and easily speak pidgin English if needed.

Something is wrong with the generic igbo identity and that is why some researchers have been screaming that a language spoken by over 30 million people is about to go extinct in 50 years and that should be food for thought. There is lack of organization and through the central igbo, everyone can just move about but this will kill the other related languages or the language itself. Anioma is the platform that we in delta north can easily preserve our essence and language. Do you know that tertiary institutions in delta do not teach our own langauge but standard igbo and this is very wrong. So for me as ukwuani my number one goal is to protect my ethnic identity and preserve my beloved ukwuani language.

[quote author=some-girl] ^^"Umu" is Igbo, "rumu" is Igboid.
[/quote]I don't really understand but i think it is ikwerres that use rumu but we use umu for children in ukwuani. Igboid means all the languages within it are related languages, so sometimes a word can mean the same or be spelt exactly across this family group. Sometimes they could be spelt slightly different from one language to another or entirely different across the language family.

Igboid - Ekpeye, Igbo, Ika, Izii, Ezaa, Mgbo, Ikwerre, ogba and Ukwuani-Aboh languages.

All the above are languages on their own but closely related so words can mean the same, slight different or entirely different across the family. The others are not a dialect of the igbo language as it is just one of the languages in the family so people should just try to look away from the population of igbo within the family.

[quote author=some-girl]Good to know you're better now

The above are few of many misconceptions. If Delta Igbos have been described as lazy, I'm unaware of this.
Growing up I knew Bendel-Igbos as Igbos who happen to be located in Bendel state and Ndonis as Igbos in Rivers state.
What people don't seem to understand is that Igbos are very clannish. Even within what is known as "core" Igboland, we have reservations about people from other states, LGAs, villages even family compounds
But when push comes to shove, we are Igbo.

I read all the time that Igbos are land grabbers and expansionistic especially from Ikwerres, this is another major misconception.
The Mbaise man has never attempted to grab the land of his Owerre neighbour neither has the Nsuka man claimed Oka land as his.
Igbos acquired a huge chunk of Ikwerre land, fair and square and any lands they now occupy. Nobody's fault if one decides to sell his father's compound to a stranger who has the means to purchase it.
Like I mentioned in an earlier post, we all have some mix of something non-"core" Igbo hence the difference in dialects.
Your being Igbo or not, doesn't put or remove food from anyone's table. I'm just intrigued by viewpoints in this debate hence my participation.

I can't understand how someone would distance himself from Igbo and cite his source as Onu -Ika, (voice/ mouthpiece of Ika in Igbo language) and how a people called Umunede are Bini originally.
The difference between your dialect and other Igbo dialects is not more significant, in my opinion and I stand to be corrected, than the difference between Oratta and Ohafia or Abiriba and Nsuka.

On a side note, what I also don't understand is how and why people who claim to have migrated from elsewhere are protective of land that doesn't originally belong to them. Ikwerres claim to be Bini migrants just as you do, that would mean the lands you now occupy belong to a different group originally.

[/quote]Thanks very much

We do get that when the argument goes sore or when we are not shifting our ground as expected with the usual argument from the language and culture angle. This clannish scourge is everywhere and even in ukwuani or Ika areas but with all round development and enlightenment, the issue will be reduced to the nearest minimum. See all the igboid group are one big family but it is made of different people and it is this simple fact that is eluding most of us here. A cluster of industry means a collection of different industries as a cluster of people is a collection of different people. Igbo is a people cluster made of other people who are not igbos and when the heat becomes high, we surely know where we can pitch our tent into.

I don't know if the land tenure system is applicable all over Nigeria where the land is not actually sold but leased for 100 years. Anyway people sell land to other people all over Nigeria but when Nigeria breaks up then the possibility of loosing those lands are high. People are not comfortable when people they sell land to start making statements like we own 70 percent of lagos or ikwerre land. This will surely cause hostility between you and the host community, people can go to any extent to sort this issue out as your ancestral land is dear to you so i don't know why igbos cannot just buy land and go about their normal lives without this boastful provocations.

You made reference to we like you are not core igbo so you mind i ask where you are actually from?. There is no difference in dialects actually because Ika, ukwuani, Ikwerre and the other igboid groups in ebonyi state are a different languages on their own. They all have their own dialects where applicable and because they are all closely related then it looks like one is a dialect of the other but it is not. Igbo is the largest group in this family hence people confuse all the others to be a dialect of it but they are not actually. Norwegian, danish, Icelandic and Swedish are all Scandinavian languages with their own dialects but they are all related so the possibility of finding the same meaning or spelling for some certain words is high. Certain words mean the same across the igboid language family and not igbo language because the others are relative language to igbo but not a dialect of it.


We are not talking about lands but identity and i don't think there was any significant records of meeting people when they first came to the land. People moved about centuries ago unlike now that the world is civilised, the people in America and Australia today took the lands from the indigenous people. The issue here is about identity and let me conclude by saying ukwuani, Ika, Igbos, Ikwerre and the others belong to one family but the bone of contention is just the name of the family.

Why the yorubas were able to accept that identity is because they did not use the name of any ethnic group within the family to collectively address them. The problem was using igbo to address all of us instead of using a neutral term to address us while everyone still kept their own indigenous names. There is a lot to loose for we as ukwauni people if we start promoting igbo in place of our ukwuani identity because the essence of being ukwuani is not the same as being ika, igbo or ikwerre.

We are only related by language and culture and that is where it actually ends because all the other factors are different if not all. We can all collective make things happen like one big family but giving up our identity means starting afresh all over again. The essence of being an ukwuani man is unique to us only and has been passed from generation to generation and that is different from the essence of being an igbo man. This is one of the reasons an igbo man sees the others as lazy and laid back but in the actual sense they are not because the essence is different. If i decide to call myself igbos today then i will have to give up the essence of being uwkuani and start living like an igbo man, i get the you don't behave like real igbo from igbos alot so you see my point.

tonychristopher: clannish tendencies wont help here....igbos are not losing sleep who calls himself whatev er...the fact should be straight. ukwuani is an igbo word. umunede,igbodo,igbo akiri are all igbo word,so reason this. how can people come from benin and jettison their culture,their benin nuances,benin names and embrace igbo. does this make sense to you. i think you should tell the marines that bunkum.does it sound sensible. i wonder how people buy that shiiiit . its like saying oduduwa fell from heaven to form yoruba. such a cocck and bull story. NOW HOW COME YOU HAVE IGBO NUANCE IN UKWUANI AND IKA MORE. you have the right to be ukwuani,same as mbaise man but all under igboid umbrella. so why doubting facts not stories told by ignorant old men

My post above are fully explanatory and i don't see what you are still trying to argue seriously. You have to come to terms concerning the meaning of ethnic group, ethnic nationality and closely related people or language. You really have to stop this ukwuani is an igbo word or umu is an igbo word as the rightful term is igboid and not igbo. You are often confused because of the people group with the largest population and feel everybody should go with that identity. Its not going to happen so just kindly look at them as your brothers without bothering about the igbo issue and save yourself all these headache.

Look if you remove ekpeye as it was rightly mentioned in some of those links then there would not be a need to have two separate group and it will just be igboid. Ika is in delta and edo, ukwuani is in delta and rivers, Ikwerre is in rivers and same with ekpeye while ikwo, izii, mgbo and ezaa are in ebonyi state then igbos are in the rest southeast state plus maybe rivers and delta too. This are just facts that you should get used to and get over this obsession of everyone should be igbo. I don't think it is productive continuing this discussion with you as you are hell bent on your own conviction without coming to terms with presented facts.

This is delta state with 5.7b per month as we are pursuing a delta state beyond oil policy so what we can be self sustaining when the oil dries up. You have to use your advantage now to help build up other self sustaining industries, the other igbo states like anambra and abia should have used the presence of heavy commercial activities within their domain to raise capital for needed development efforts.

This what i keep telling some igbo people that you can have the largest commercialization going on in onitsha and aba but if you don't lock the system to profit from it then the place cannot be developed if the government does not have alternative means of funding. They should be grateful that the allocation from the centre is helping the state government if not you have individuals making money but it does not go into development except building disorganized personal mansions.

The system is being locked in so many places like ebonyi, lagos etc and they are seeing the benefit of it but an average igbo man will want to evade tax and become rich. You can be rich and pay tax at the same time if you are not so much disposed to greediness in my humble opinion. Ebonyi state is clearly the most focused state in the southeast, they should just keep on focusing on the exploitation of their comparative advantage while developing their human capital and other important infrastructure or amenities.

usbcable: same ol same.

how you dey?

whats your take on Jese and the young lads (morata, casemiro, illara)? I really lik ethe guy but he doesnt seem like a full striker.

I am good and concerning that, they are all good especially casemiro but i think jese, morata , nacho and varane should be sent back to castilla by January to save the team from relegation though the new coach is picking positive results.

Note . . . BBC ( Bale + Benzema + Cristiano ) have 44 goals and 18 assists between them this season alone . . .one day these guys will cross the 200 goal mark a season or in a calender year.

Nomski0: I'm a Neymar fan but not a Barcelona fan.

Thanks for the welcome.

Welcome to our fold and you are the second i think because there was one who is not so regular here anymore these days.

Please more of it @utagba_ogbe . . . i will also like to communicate with you more as an ndokwa man.

Ngwa is a dialect of the igbo language as they belong to the igbo ethnic group and the joshua project confirms that ika, ukwuani-aboh, Ikwere etc are not dialects of igbo language but related as they are a separate language in the same way danish is not a dialect of Norwegian but closely related. Igbo is an ethnic group that is different from the ikwere, Ika, Ukwuani-aboh ethnic group as danish, Swedish, Norwegian are all ethnic groups belonging to the Scandinavian nationality.

Igbo language dialects
http://www.joshuaproject.net/languages.php?rol3=ibo

Ikwere Language dialects
http://www.joshuaproject.net/languages.php?rol3=ikw

Afam4eva: Just to correct an impression though. The term "Igbo" is not used to refer to Ika or Ukwuani people because that's the name of the largest ethnic group as the name was an invention and just as you have Ikas and Ukwuanis, you have Ngwas, Nkanus, Abriba etc. I don't think it's fair to compare Ika or Ukwuani to Igbo as Igbo is just an association of Igboid groups. It was when the Europeans arrived that we were centralized with the Igbo term. Compare Ukwuani or Ika to Ngwa et al and not Igbo.

This depends on what our fore fathers told the colonialist when they came in contact for the first time or when they asked their immediate neighbors. Now for the ukwuani people we rightly told them that we are ukwuanis while those on the east of uwkuani are actually osumili but because aboh was a kingdom then the colonialist called them that. This is the reason we are referred to as Ukwuani-Aboh and the Urhobos also told the colonialist that we are Ukwuanis, the historical records are there.

To the other groups, i cannot tell you what they told the colonialist as their ethnic identity as they could be referring to their village, clan or real ethnic group. This is a list of all the ethnic groups that are today grouped under this igbo collective national identity and it seems those who cannot distinctively identity themselves must belong to the igbo group.

http://www.joshuaproject.net/people-clusters.php?peo2=190

Check this links out too http://www.uiowa.edu/intlinet/unijos/nigonnet/nlp/igboid.htm

http://www.uiowa.edu/intlinet/unijos/nigonnet/nlp/nigercon.htm

[quote author=some-girl]Sure dear, shoot......[/quote]Thanks and sorry for the late reply, i was down over the weekend but am cool now so let me ask those questions.

I keep seeing statements like they are lazy, what do they bring to the table and many derogatory statements from igbos to other igboid groups. So why question is, what do igbos have to loose if they allow this people to be whatever they want to be. What will igbos actually gain if they all call themselves igbos today. Do igbos feel any guilt or whatever if this people decide for themselves and face whatever fate that befalls them with their decision?. Is there any instance that these so called lazy groups come to beg igbo people for food, money or for help as i cannot fathom why all this vile statements if igbos are not their benefactors.

Now concerning the identity issue being discussed in this thread, i will like to have a discussion with you using examples around the world and backing those claims through the ethnography for language classification and the Joshua project for ethnic classification. If this is okay with you then i can post some links for you to go through it while i await your reply.

tonychristopher: I do get your drift now,I think what you are saying is that ukwuani is IGBOID but doesn't want to be called igbo but its igbo family just like tiger wants to be known as tiger not to be called a feline that is in cat family...it still doesn't make sense to me.where does your relationship lies and where do you feel at home . is it IGBOID of edoid group. atleast I know core Niger delta groups...igbo is an ethnic nationality inside it we got tribes just like twelve tribes of Israel. do you know igbo population is more than 47…million worldwide,ATLEAST we are even bigger thank some countries if we decide to go on our own. what do you do to the abohs and IKAS that say they are igbo?

Ukwuani and Ika are igboid and there is nothing anybody is going to do about that but the only thing they can tamper with is the ethnic nationality. You really have to understand the joshua project that you always want to refer to, that project is a classification of ethnic groups and taking them up to ethnic nationality. The reason why we are all called igbos is that you normally use the name of the largest ethnic group within the nationality to name the whole group.

Now assuming Ika was the largest in population, we will all be called Ikas today and same thing is applicable for the other ethnic groups within the nationality. They colonialist have already chosen that name but it is not compulsory as we can forge a new ethnic national identity for ourselves, heck we can all be refereed to as aniomas or biafrans if everyone is cool with that. There are ethnic nationalities that spreads across different countries and they go about with their ethnic group identity.

See the truth is that i cannot call an Ika man Ukwuani and it is in that same way that he also cannot call me Ika, this is the logic that is applicable to every ethnic group within the nationality. The name Igbo was chosen as our ethnic nationality because the largest ethnic group within it are the igbo people. In delta state there are three igboid groups and they are IKA, Ukwuani-Aboh and Igbos otherwise known as Enuani. So if the national identity is the problem then the logical thing to do is to fix that instead of imposing the name of one of the groups if the others are not accepting that. We can all be called anioma ethnic nationality made up of Igbos, Ikas, Ukwuani, Ikwerre and the others, so this solves our identity issue and those ikas or abohs who call themselves igbos are not exposed to this fact.

Next time ask them if they are referring to themselves as an ethnic group or ethnic nationality to see what they really mean. Each ethnic group can go their own separate ways if they so wish but it doesn't remove the fact that they belong to the same nationality. The only issue here is the name of the nationality as instead of Igbo it can be anything like anioma, biafra, Nri, Ikenge or whatever. When i tell you that i am not igbo, i am saying igbo is not my ethnic group and people don't even need to yap about the nationality as that can be changed easily to anything as we have switched to Anioma.

This is a list to all the ethnic group within Nigeria http://www.joshuaproject.net/people-profile.php

@Afam

You are getting the point and concerning what we want to be called, it is simply Ikas or Ukwuani ( Ndokwa ). We don't want to be called bini or igbo, we don't need to be called igbo before we regard each other as family and that is the point people are missing. We know where our political allegiance lies and who we feel at home most. Just get past the identity issue, pursue collective development and relations. Identity is built over a very long period of years if there is no application of force.

People are quick to point at other examples around the world like the Chinese, Spanish and French but if you take the time to investigate how they came about it, you will not be screaming everybody are Igbos. The white man met us a little over hundred years ago and they is where the Yoruba and igbo identity start developing from. If the white man did not came to colonize us, i seriously doubt if there will be anything like Yoruba or Igbo in 2013. So it is time for igbos to look beyond the igbo identity issue and see where they can joint and collective aspiration with people you consider as family.

I can't fully speak for other communities within Anioma but i can give you details about Ndokwa people ( Ukwuani-Aboh ). Even if the people claim that they are from benin or idu but no ukwuani person is calling him or her self benin. It is only a reference to the place of origin as far back as we can remember and from oral history that has been passed from generation to generation. When the white man came to meet us for the first time, they asked the urhobo people about us and they rightly told them that we are ukwuani and aboh but the same people.

I don't know why you guys do not get this simple fact, ukwuani is our ethnic group because the identity is ingrained and still intact with us. Igbo is an ethnic nationality in the same light as Yoruba, Spanish and Chinese. Inside of china there are over 30 different ethnic groups. Joining the igbo ethnic nationality is by choice when there is no presence of force like in the Spanish and french nationality. Even our colonial masters are know as British, that is their ethnic nationality while English, Scottish, Irish and wales are the ethnic groups within that nationality. The Scottish wants to go away from that nationality because it is not by force.

Belonging to an ethnic nationality is a thing of the mind and the benefit that lies with it and not because there is a similarity in language and culture. The Igbos are going about from a cultural and language point of view while the Anioma groups are going about it ideologically. Many nationalities wants to break up from Nigeria because of the ideological differences within the confines of Nigeria. We don't have to call ourselves Igbos before we see Igbos as our family or brothers and that is where the problem lies with you guys. You guys are not seeing beyond the Igbo identity, the Scandinavians looked beyond the Scandinavian identity to develop diverse identity but the cooperation between this countries is second to known in Europe.

The simple fact is we want to be known as Ika, Ukwuani, Ndokwa, Aboh etc . . .and in going forward it is our sole independent choice to belong to any further identity like Anioma, Igbo, Biafra, Bendelites or whatever. Before the white man came to meet us, there was nothing like collective igbo so you guys should respect the choice of people who wants to keep their identity as passed to them from generation to generation. It doesn't mean there will not be maximum and collective cooperation with other related people who we see as family or brothers to us.

@some-girl

You mind i ask you some questions?

tonychristopher: who said that website is fake....didn't you see it. then if its fake website give us your authentic website from delta state government classification of local government zones. or is Wikipedia also fake,is Joshua project fake. if all these are fake pls give us the real one. you still haven't answered my question I posed to you since weeks ago....give me a credible link where any ika king say that ika are not igbo or give me a link that oba of Benin said that ika are my people bring them back....no wonder they are maltreating IGBANKE people. I am waiting. I think you see that FAKE IGBO TAG AIN'T A BAD IDEA AFTERALL...but not all ika see this from your miopic and separatist view.



I still dey wait for your links ooooo no bi Facebook or Blogger posting abeg,cos any fooooool can post any shiiiiiiiit there

Governments sites in Nigeria end in gov.ng domain so don't believe that website even though the delta state government official website makes reference to igbos but at the same time you will see reference to Ika and Ukwuani. It is disturbing for you to say people should not believe what they call themselves but what their neighbor thinks of them. You don't have to go to that extent because of this igbo identity issue, i don't think you are looking for reference from your neighbors before you know that you are igbo so please come of it.

Wikepedia is not so good of a reference and you seem not to understand the classification as stated in the Joshua project but i am ready to discuss that with you if i hear your explanation first. I don't think you will be able to produce the same official link for all the igbo kings east of the Niger before and after the coming of the colonialist so it is not so relevant. Their are official organizations, associations and channels to get that information and not from state government of heterogeneous states. You should always leave that to the ethnic group to define themselves and to say the truth, you guys miss the point of the whole Anioma thing because if you actually get it then you will not be fighting here shouting about igbo this and that.

How can people be pointing to a fake website as reference to delta state government classification of ethnic groups within the state?.

Nah . . . .so explain bro