₦airaland Forum

fstranger:
Ibo people AGAIN
How come these guys love money so much
hmmm, may God deliver us from them.

Adenedimoh, Ilevbaodione, Ikpong, Oyekunle, are not Igbo names to the best of my knowledge. This character (fstranger) is getting annoying.

DapoBear: @PhysicsQED: So long as Adamawa's power is taken care of, why should those other issues be any of their concern? If this results in cheap and reliable power in Adamawa, then I don't see why they are under any obligation to find solutions that will also serve other states. That is the job of the federal gov't and those other states, not Adamawa

I can see a situation in which 28 out of the 36 states in Nigeria are dependent on say 7 or 8 other West African nations that have actually worked to meet their power needs and have energy left over and then the other 8 states are handled perfectly fine by the power Nigeria currently generates. To me this is the very definition of running away from one's problems and going backwards while those around you develop. If there is a problem, surmount it, don't pass the buck of responsibility to the take-care-of-everything parental government. The Germans, Chinese, Japanese, Argentinians, etc. are not superhuman or anything to be able to meet the energy needs of their many millions of people so I don't see why we can't put the effort into meeting our needs. I don't see Adamawa being the state to do that so maybe for that particular state just buying from a foreign government is necessary for them, but I would prefer different foreign companies in Nigeria supplying power over that and Nigerian companies in Nigeria even more so. But just becoming dependent on other countries does not seem like a solution to Nigeria's problem, even if it is an easy way out for Adamawa.

If the Nigerian government were to handle it, and Nigerians were to pay an energy bill to the government, we have to ask, how many people in Nigeria even pay taxes (heavy taxes, like Europeans) to even be able to fund the government's improvements in the quality of life, whether it is roads, health care, or electricity, and where would that money for taxes, energy bills, etc. even come from without the improvements in quality of life that would lead to massive increases in employment and productivity that would raise income levels? It seems like a Catch-22 so I would leave out the Nigerian federal government angle.

igbobuigbo:
Another data

Bayelsa, Anambra and Abia are the 3 states least affected by poverty

Malam Salihu Lukman is an Economist and Director of People and Passion Consult in Abuja. He attributed the high concentration of poverty in the North to the prolonged abuse of public resources by the northern political class. Excerpts:

Weekly Trust: As an Economist and activist in the area of poverty reduction, what is your reaction to the recent statement by the Central Bank governor, Professor Chukwuma Soludo that high and persistent level of poverty in the country is a northern phenomenon and that the Federal Government should declare emergency on poverty in the North?

Salihu Muhammed Lukman: The statement by Soludo is an indictment on all those in government that have a role in the economic management process of this country. It is a wake-up call for those of us from the North to really commit ourselves for the umpteenth time to redress our own problems. Unfortunately, the reality as it is today, doesn’t suggest any commitment from both the government and the private sector. Remember that this is the second time that Soludo is raising this alarm. I remember that in January 2007 at an economic stakeholders’ meeting, he presented a grim statistics to buttress his point on the need to fight poverty in northern Nigeria. The statistics he presented showed the gloomy reality of poverty in the North. The three northern regions were reported to have an average poverty incidence of 70.1per cent as compared to 34.9 per cent for the three southern regions. What justifies the assertion that very high poverty is a northern phenomenon has to do with the facts that all the 10 states with the highest incidence of poverty are all northern states ,with Jigawa topping the list with 95 per cent, Kebbi, 89.7 per cent; Kogi, 88.6 per cent ; Bauchi, 86.3 per cent; Kwara, 85.2 per cent; Yobe, 83.3 per cent; Zamfara, 80.9 5 per cent; Gombe,77.0 per cent, Sokoto,76.8 per cent; Adamawa, 71.7 per cent respectively. This is in contrast with the lowest incidences which are all in the southern states with Bayelsa reportedly having the best comparative records of 20 per cent, Anambra, 20.1 per cent, Abia, 22.3 per cent ; Oyo, 24.1 per cent; Imo, 27.4 per cent; Rivers, 29.1 per cent ; Enugu, 31.1 per cent ; Ogun, 31.7per cent ; Osun, 32 per cent and Edo, 33.1 percent.

Although some may not agree with these figures, but it is hardly contestable. Professor Soludo’s statistical revelation means that 70 per cent of the people living in the North live below one dollar per day, which means N129 per day. In order words, these are people who earn below N3, 870 per month. This is less than the N5,500 legislated national minimum wage. Taking the 2006 Census into consideration, it means that 52,592,641 million citizens living in the North are poor. Ever since these figures were released by Soludo, there have been silence among the so-called champions of the North and even among the media especially because of the fact that poor management of resources at all levels is the greatest undoing. Another very shocking revelation by Soludo has to do with the issue of savings. According to him, the whole North excluding the FCT, "have lesser bank deposits than the South-South zone alone. Second, the North (again excluding the FCT) accounts for approximately only 10.75 per cent of deposits and 8.5 per cent of bank loans. While this may not present an objective measure of the level of economic activities, it is to some extent, indicative of the volume of formalised activities.

So is Bayelsa richer than Oyo and Enugu?

This is why we can't take lower poverty level to mean "richness" although it obviously correlates with "richness" in the grand scheme of things.

igbobuigbo:
Before Alams came on board, nobody in Bayelsa was known in terms of wealth (stolen or earned) compared to Edo having big guns like Igbinedions, Akhigbes, Aikhomus,  etc and all those transport company owners. Those, plus the Italo connection   . From videos of interviews I have watched, the poverty in rural Edo is what drives the prosty business in Italo and other Euro states. Thus, I believe average people are well off in Bayelsa than Edo just Like I believe average people in Anambra are well off than most other naija states (Anambra and Bayelsa are two of the least impoverished states)according to UNDP and NAPEP.

Yes, but the people you mentioned, are they billionaires (U.S. dollars)? There's billions of difference in Bayelsa GDP and Edo GDP. As for the average person in Bayelsa compared to the average person in Edo, for whatever reason whoever wrote the Bayelsa article on wiki (a Bayelsa person, no doubt) felt the need to point out that the majority of Bayelsans live in poverty and even pointed out that poverty alleviation schemes there had failed, and that there was little commerce there.

Economy

Bayelsa State has one of the largest crude oil and natural gas deposits in Nigeria. As a result, petroleum production is extensive in the state. However, the majority of Bayelsans live in poverty. They are mainly rural dwellers due to its peculiar terrain and lack of adequate transportation, health, education or other infrastructure as a result of decades of neglect by the central governments, state governments, and petroleum prospecting companies. This has been a large problem in the state since its creation and successive state governments have not been able to address and repair the issue. The state, as a result, has an almost non-existent commerce. Successive state governments have, however, embarked on various industrial projects (even venturing into the oil and gas sector), and "poverty-alleviation" programs to reverse this situation,accordingly this are only on paper. there's nothing on ground to show for huge sums of money spent for development by successive and present state governments.

The local population engage in fishing on a subsistence and commercial level. The Bayelsa State government is otherwise the main employer of labor in the state.

For whatever reason the person that wrote the wiki article on Edo state didn't feel the need to do the same. I'll leave you to reach the conclusions and inferences that can be drawn from this.  

igbobuigbo:
I still maintain that use of GDP is deceptive (you feel rich while you are actually poor), more so GDP PPP (the richness of a very few is attributed to the whole). Measure of relative poverty levels makes more sense in Nigeria.

Perhaps, but I still don't buy the whole Bayelsa state richer than Edo state thing. I'd need more convincing evidence, but I can see your point of view on this. I don't feel that Edo emphasizes the rich few and poor masses thing more than any other part of Nigeria, including Bayelsa, so I would feel the GDP comparisons would be valid until it could be shown that the reason a state had a higher GDP was due to the greater concentration of a rich few in that state compared to another state. But like I said before, the stats may indeed be useless.

The stats may indeed be useless. So this whole discussion may have been a waste of time.

Per capita income means how much each individual receives, in monetary terms, of the[b] yearly income that is generated in their country[/b] or state through productive activities.

Their GDP definition here seems wrong. That may be how they arrived at the "Ebonyi" is richest in southeast and Bayelsa is richest in Nigeria conclusion, though I'm not certain.

Anyways, Bayelsa gets 18% of 13% of oil revenue or about 2.3% of oil revenue. When you factor in the fact that they have less than 2 million people this means they get the highest oil-revenue per person. (Delta which gets 30% of 13% which is 3.9% of oil revenue, has more than three times the population of Baylesa and Akwa Ibom which gets 2.86% is nearly two and a half times the population of Bayelsa). That may explain the Bayelsa thing.

With regard to Ebonyi, I simply can't comprehend how they arrived at Ebonyi having one of the higher GDP per capita in Nigeria. It doesn't even have the highest GDP per capita in the southeast.

igbobuigbo:
^^^^^
For a country like Nigeria with low production capacity (where high pop is useful), the smaller your population, the better your GDP ranking, not so? So states with bigger pop yet higher GDP than Edo are actually better. But again, GDP PPP in Nigerian context sucks as it gives a wrong impression since wealth is highly skewed toward very few. Measuring relative levels of poverty  is a more realistic measure of ''wealth'' in Nigeria. A score of 3/8 is a FAIL, no?

GDP per capita ranking will be higher with low population and similar or same GDP. Yes some states with bigger population and higher GDP will be better but it depends on how much better the GDP for a certain difference in population. Going off the wide-spread assumption that GDP correlates with richness or wealth, if Kano state does have 10 million people, but its GDP is only 0.5 billion more (12. 4 billion) than Edo state (11.9 billion) with a population of around 3.5 million, I think its easy for anybody to see that Kano state is not necessarily richer or "better" than Edo state, even if the capital city of Kano state might have gotten more government attention or money from the federal government (from somebody like say, Sani Abacha) and might look nicer or richer in many places.

And yes 3/8 IS a fail. Don't know why people see the need to exaggerate. I especially couldn't understand the athletes/sports claim exaggeration as that is not even relevant to richness or viability of a state.

igbobuigbo:
^^^^
Does Lagos REALLY have the highest rate of foreign remittance in Nigeria? How many Lagosians are there or do you count an Ekiti man who lives in Lagos, gets money from his brother in the USA via western union in Ikeja, takes the money home to Ado Ekiti to build a house? How does that count for Lagos? We all know that Lagos is a passing phase for most people there, no? I am not an economist, but in Nigeria where wealth is in the hands of very, very few, GDP PPP makes no meaning at all. What makes sense instead, is level of poverty, of which Edo is not among the least impoverished states. Lagos has the highest GDP PPP but also has some of the most impoverished Nigerians, all thanks to the skewness of wealth distribution.

If an Ekiti man lives in Lagos, and his brother remits money to where he lives, the money is remitted there (Lagos), not Ekiti state. Now since far more people live in Lagos than anywhere else, assuming that Lagos gets the highest number of remittances is actually quite reasonable.

As for the poverty thing I answered that above. Hearing that Bayelsa is wealthier than Edo can only ever be justified in terms of saying that they have a more important natural resource in terms of oil. Anything else, whether talking about GDP in proportion to population or just GDP taken without consideration of population, makes Edo out to be "richer". GDP does correlate with "richness" in the sense that we have been using it in this discussion, so I would conclude that Edo state is richer than Bayelsa off of that alone.

If at the same time Bayelsa has a lower poverty rate than Edo, I could possibly conclude that Bayelsa has a greater proportion of people in between poverty and richness than Edo since Bayelsa does not have a GDP proportional to its population if it were to have the same GDP per capita as Edo state. That is, Bayelsa state population = around 2 million. Edo state population = around 3.5 million, but Edo state GDP = approximately 3 times that of Bayelsa.

igbobuigbo:
^^^^^
Since he has no facts and figures and you have pooh poohed most of his claims, like I did, and many more of them were flat out lies or exaggerations, then his whole premise was wrong to being with. Even in the GDP data on wiki, Edo is not among the first 6 so again he went balloning things out of proportion. Edo gets some money for being oil-producing. Even if little, many other states do not get any of such. Benin city ALONE does not constitute Edo state so that punctures also his bank number claims. I only took him up because I detest that lies, half truths or exaggerations be allowed to perpetrate and soon become truths.

Who says Benin = Edo state? Fact is, Benin is part of Edo state so it's going to come up in debate about whether Edo state has any value or not.

Suggesting Edo gets so much money for being oil-producing when in fact, it gets 1% of 13% (.0013) all oil revenue while states like Ondo, Imo, Abia, Cross Rivers, Akwa Ibom, Rivers, Bayelsa get more than that and then saying "many other states do not get any of such" weakens your argument that "his whole premise is wrong to begin with". Of those states mentioned only Imo and Abia have a higher GDP with a similar population (actually, a slightly higher population for Imo state) but those states get more from their oil derivation than Edo state so they would even have more to work with, if well-governed, in producing a higher GDP.

Edo state has a GDP approximately 3 times that of Bayelsa but does not have three times its population, yet you actually insinuated  that because of lower poverty rate Bayelsa could be put above Edo in terms of "richness". Now that is something that I would "pooh pooh."

Cross river and Edo I would say are at about the same level. Lagos State's population is much greater than Edo state so the GDP comparison should not even arise in this case. Delta, Rivers, Kano and Oyo have more than 1.5 times and nearly twice the population of Edo state (I'm ignoring the garbage that says Kano state's population is around or greater than 10 million because that is politically motivated but even if I took the ludicrous population figures of Kano state as genuine that would only help my case since their GDP isn't much better than Edo with their (supposed) massive population) but only Oyo and Kano are non-oil producing.

In fact, all that really needs to be said to evaluate whether Edo is a viable state compared to other states and one of the richer states s that:

a) it has a greater push for education than some (non-Northern, I'm ignoring them in this regard because they're irrelevant) states with equal or greater oil derivation and/or population (and level of education correlates positively with wealth/richness)

b) it is in fact an (but not the only or the main) economic center of the country, as the article you even posted alluded to.


c) it is either 24 or 27 out of 36 (depending on which census one goes by) in population, but has the 7th highest GDP (I like how you arbitrarily chose the "top 6" as the cutoff point for richness, clever) and some of those six states above it in GDP have considerably higher population (human resources) or oil derivation resources (financial capital).


Now, how many of his claims did I rubbish?

1. Benin Airport is one of the busiest in the country. I think it actually is 4th in this case so his claim is correct.

2. Benin City may or may not have the highest number of branches after Lagos and Port Harcourt. He provided no proof, but you provided no proof otherwise. Instead you pulled up data for states when he mentioned cities. Once again I don't believe it because he even ignored Abuja, but I clarified his claim while you distorted it. I didn't rubbish it. I just doubted that it could actually be proven on a city to city basis and believed there were one or two more cities that come before Benin in this regard.

3. If we assume, using the state of origin data bandied around here for number of applicants and admittances is in fact proportional to number of graduates as everyone on this board has been as assuming then in fact his third claim would be correct. as Edo would then produce one of the highest number of graduates.

4. I don't believe its THE highest number of doctors. Once again he exaggerates, perhaps based on claim number 3. Until he can provide proof this claim is incorrect.

5.  This claim is simply correct.

6. Incorrect.

7. Doubt that. No proof for this. So let's say incorrect.

8. Meaningless basically, how can anyone verify, as I said earlier that there are more Edo athletes that are from Edo state (and how would one know they weren't from Lagos, or Jos, or Port Harcourt or somewhere where an Edo family moved to) than there are Yoruba athletes from Osun state (who might not necessarily be indigenous). This is incorrect because it can't be proven.

So he got a 3/8.

Most claims were unverifiable, so I did "pooh pooh" most of his claims as you said but as I said earlier his basic premise is in fact solid, contrary to what you asserted (that it was wrong) with no evidence.

igbobuigbo:
http://www.firstbanknigeria.com/GetHelp/BranchATMLocator/tabid/115/Default.aspx

On claim about the number of bank branches, let us use one of the  biggest banks, FBN, as a case study and compare Edo and a few other states outside Lagos

FBN Branches in Abia = 13


FBN Branches in EDO = 14

in Anambra =18

Oyo = 20
Enugu = 13

Infact Edo is next to Oyo which is next to Anambra in terms of overall bank numbers as you can read from the news below

http://www.businessdayonline.com/NG/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=15924:ten-states-host-63-percent-of-all-bank-branches-in-nigeria&catid=171:national&Itemid=617

Ten states host 63 percent of all bank branches in Nigeria
Tuesday, 02 November 2010 01:00 Anonymous
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•Banks have 3,190 branches

Ten states in Nigeria host 63  percent of all bank branches  in the country. This is based on an analysis contained in the Nigerian Banks Financial Transparency Report 2010. The analysis covers the 14 banks not affected by the Central Bank of Nigeria’s (CBN) change of management, quoted on the Nigerian Stock Exchange and which had published their 2009 annual reports.
The analysis shows that the 14 banks analysed have a total of 3,190 branches and cash centres in all the states in Nigeria. State by State analysis however showed that 63 percent of these branches are located in the following ten states: Lagos, Abuja FCT, Rivers, Anambra, Oyo, Edo, Ogun, Delta, Kano and Kaduna.
These states could also easily qualify as the commercial centres in their various regions: Lagos , Ogun, and Oyo in the South -West, Abuja FCT which is Nigeria’s seat of power, Anambra in the South - East, Rivers in the South- South oil states, and Edo and Delta in the former Mid-western region.


Analysis of bank branch locations in the report shows a heavy concentration of bank branches in Lagos with 31 percent of all bank branches in Nigeria. Almost all the banks have a heavy presence in Lagos, a confirmation of its position as the nation’s commercial hub. Access Bank has the highest concentration of its bank branches in Lagos with an average of 40 percent of all its branches, while Unity Bank has the least concentration in Lagos with just 17 percent of all its branches.


Abuja, Nigeria’s political capital, has the second highest concentration of bank branches with just six percent of all bank branches. Rivers State, which could be classified as Nigeria’s oil capital, has the third highest concentration of bank branches with about 5 percent of all bank branches in the country.
Anambra State, the commercial hub of the South- East, has the fourth highest concentration of bank branches.
The bottom four states in terms of bank branch locations in the country were Ebonyi, Kebbi, Jigawa and Zamfara states; each with less than one percent of bank branches in the country in 2009.

Well, I see someone has conducted a very time consuming and pointless study and told us things we already know. In fact the statement

These states could also easily qualify as the commercial centres in their various regions: Lagos , Ogun, and Oyo in the South -West, Abuja FCT which is Nigeria’s seat of power, Anambra in the South - East, Rivers in the South- South oil states, and Edo and Delta in the former Mid-western region.

is moronic because Edo and Delta are the former Midwestern region.

Anyways, this article only confirms Papabrowne's point, though in the zeal to make it he exaggerated. Anyways, he obviously meant to compare cities but even then, Lagos, Abuja, Ibadan, and would come before Benin in this category. And in the case of Anambra over Edo state, that could be explained by Onitsha + Nnewi +Awka, though not necessarily just one just by itself, unless I could see reliable statistics otherwise.

igbobuigbo:
The bolded part of the above quote indirectly informs on who sends money home substantially

That doesn't prove anything actually. I hope you are not comparing a population of about 4 million to a population of more than 20 million. He talked about states and not whole regions. I too would like to see the data backing his claim of second after Lagos state because I don't believe it but your argument here is very poorly constructed. I hope you don't think more people in say, Ebonyi, a poorer state than Edo with a similar population, are necessarily sending more remittances than Edo because one prof. says the Igbo (20 + million) in general could finance a major war. That doesn't follow.

igbobuigbo:
1. To begin with he did say Edo is among the richest states. I do not know what he meant by being rich when Edo is not among the 10 states with lowest poverty levels

2. Contrary to his claims, Edo is an oil producing state and part of the 9 oil producing ND states. So his classification was wrong ab initio. He claims Edo has the highest # of banks outside Lagos and I ask him to show proof. Let him tell us how many industries are in Edo state that makes it a rich state. Let him tell us how many Edo people compared to other states that are outside of Edo doing anything that can yield substantial returns back to Edo. I am not talking of 10-10 Euro asheys on the streets of Holland, Brussels and Italy. Those will first have to refund the money they used to secure visas for them before they can remit anything home. Read what Prof Falola said here about remittances to Nigeria by Nigerians abroad (posted in the nest post below)

There may be 7 universities in Edo (something he also has to prove, since I know only of 4), but how many of the students are not from Edo state? Notice how he lumps Delta with Edo per # of athletes. Who are the athletes from Edo compared to others states in the south? The North is a basket case in this one, I agree.

1. "Richest" is not a specific term, so I don't see why we should squabble about whether he meant least number of poor people , i.e having one of the lowest poverty levels or whether he meant producing a greater amount of "wealth" (value of goods and services) than other states. I choose the latter interpretation simply because he specifically mentioned GDP and number of banks to back up this "richest" claim. I don't see how you could bring up poverty level when somebody else brings up banks and GDP. As far as richness, I hope you don't really believe that Bayelsa, even with its oil, could actually be called richer than Edo state merely because it has a lower proportion of impoverished people. I'm also going to hold off on saying that those statistics are unreliable.




2. Edo state is barely an oil producing state. In fact its oil contributions are so negligible  (less than 1% of the oil revenue of Nigeria) that he is not really wrong in saying it is not an oil producing state. Edo is irrelevant to oil in Nigeria and its classification into the Niger Delta oil producing states was a political move by Obasanjo to conflate the real Niger delta with Ondo, Edo, Abia, Imo, etc. and other states that are irrelevant to oil. The real Niger Delta consists of Rivers, Delta and Bayelsa and nothing more. As for how many industries make it a rich state, going by your definition of rich as lowest poverty level (note that that makes no sense, since one state could have very little poverty but also very little richness, i.e., no extremes, just middle ground) how many industries are in Bayelsa, Akwa Ibom, and Osun states are there to make them "richer" than Edo state? Who has all the time and the knowledge to list all the industries in a state? I consider that question not worth my time. The relative richness question was answered by GDP.  As for banks, I don't know where that claim is from, but he means Benin City and not Edo state no doubt (since he compared Lagos and Port Harcourt (a city, rather than a state)) and while entirely plausible, it rests on him showing proof. I don't have data on how many bank branches are in each city and I don't see how anyone would know unless they conducted a very time consuming (and somewhat pointless, actually) study.


As for athletes, I don't know where he got that one. There's no way to verify, once one identifies a footballer or track star or whatever with an Edo name, that there is a greater proportion of these than there are Igbos from a particular southeast state, or Yorubas from a particular southwest state. Maybe he means famous athletes, but even then, the same thing I just said applies.

As for universities, there are only four, so he was incorrect on that point (the rest are polytechnics and colleges) and clearly conflated polytechnics with universities, but four is more than you can say for many other states with similar population. As for how many are from Edo state, once again I consider that question bizarre and not worth my time as there are no such statistics or studies done. People don't even know the number of people in school in Lagos or other western states that aren't indigenous and you think anybody would spend their time finding out how many are in Edo state that are from other states? The fact that Universities were set up  or sprang up in those places in Edo state (Igbinedion, Benson Idahosa, Ambrose Alli) in the first place when they simply might not have, as is the case  in Delta state, buttresses his point that Edo state is one of the more viable states in the Federation. People in Afemailand are looking to set up a private Afemai university even, but don't yet have the money.

Edwin Clark’s politics of hate
Ikechukwu Amaechi 


Even if he thinks that Uduaghan, an Itsekiri, is not fit to govern Delta State because he comes from a minority ethnic group, he should go about it decently. This is a democracy and the only way to acquire power is through the people. Anything else will be anarchy.

The path that Clark and his co-travellers are treading can only lead to anarchy. Those who love him should advise him to retrace his steps because as Justin Rewane admonished him in 1997, if he persists, he will, sooner than later realise that the Ijaw do not have the monopoly of violence, not even in the Niger Delta.

What could the words in bold mean? I thought the Itsekiri outnumber the Ijaw in Delta state. Or am I missing something? Clark is also from a minority ethnic group, so the wording or the misrepresentation by the author of the write up is unnecessary and strange. His opposition to Uduaghan might be from the 1990s conflicts with Itsekiri but I don't see how that's the same as opposing the Itsekiri because they are a minority.

As for a monopoly on violence, they might not have a monopoly, but does any other group in the Niger Delta have the equivalent of the Egbesu boys?

igbobuigbo:
If wishes were horses. Okay! shame me with comparative links, data, statistics. One-of-the is too  vague a cache phrase

10 least-affected by poverty states in Nigeria

Incidence of poverty by state (lowest poverty-stricken states)
1. Anambra
2. Bayelsa
3. Abia
4. Oyo
5. Imo
6. Rivers
7. Enugu
8. Ogun
9. Osun
10. Akwa Ibom
Where is Edo

He never mentioned poverty so I don't see why you're even bringing that up. His (Papabrowne's) first 6 points were correct. Threads on this forum listing rankings of GDP and numbers of school applicants admitted have put Edo around 6th or 7th on GDP and 3rd or 4th on school grads though I can't be bothered to dig up the exact threads right now. Don't know about his last two claims (remittances and sports) and where he got the data for those, though I would be interested in seeing him back up those claims. Also, with regard to the doctors thing, its extremely plausible that Edo does produce one of the highest number of doctors given the number of universities in the state but I haven't seen the data for that either. Anyways, saying "Edo state should not exist" seems rather moronic to me. There are states like Ebonyi, Kwara, and many Northern states that aren't doing too well and which could be divided and split up between the states around them.

Interesting thread. 4 years ago though,. . .

Adamawa state government are jokers. This is not a solution. What they should have been doing is trying to support or sponsor power projects from Nigerians in Nigeria.

http://allafrica.com/stories/201002160285.html


^^^^^^

Cameroon doesn't get power supply everywhere but it gets constant energy in the urban centers because of their small (comparatively) population. Just like Ghana. Now if every Northern or Middle Belt state, or even just more than 4 states asked Cameroon for power, Cameroon couldn't deliver. Leeching energy from those countries with a small enough population to handle a greater proportion of their energy demands can help one out of the 36 states but it isn't an actual long term solution. While those smaller countries meet their smaller energy challenges and actually improve their power generation capabilities, each Nigerian state getting energy from them will be completely dependent on those countries for their development and not advance their actual power generating capabilities.

tkb417: FOOL: yakubu Aiyegbeni plays in Turkey
Smart boi: are you the one who pays his salaries in Turkey
FOOL: ure an empty brained dude cos you didnt even ask me if Yakubu plays in Turkey
smart boi: hahahaha, i didnt have to be as dull as u cos i know yakubu plies his trade in England
FOOL: Your question was invalid cos the first thing you should have done was to was ask if he truly plays in Turkey
smartboi: Huh Huh Huh Now i know why your name is Kobojunkie a.ka FOOL

2 kobo on this is that, u were born a doofus

LMAO. Classic.

Indeed.


Don't know how I took over this thread.

Good question. I'm not in a position to answer that. Maybe someone like amingafar or danmasani (don't think I spelled that right, he used to post here) could clear this up.

Interesting. The title of this thread seems slightly misleading though.

chyz:
So which languages are mutually intelligible, if any?

Binis from different areas understand each other.

Esan from different areas understand each other.

Etsakos from different areas understand each other.

and so on. . .

Also, Bini and Esan share a lot of words in common, and even some names.

No large scale unity/oneness. But it's okay. More diversity is also more interesting, in a way.

Also, Afemai = Etsako. (Well not really, Afemailand includes more than just the Etsakos, such as Uneme and Ivbiosakon, but it's primarily used interchangeably for Etsako.)

^^^^^
No.

bababuff:
Binis are Yorubas, whether they like it or not.

Somebody said Binis are Yorubas. Someone earlier said they were related to Igbos. If they are, no big deal, nothing wrong with that. Those are actually two of the more interesting groups in Africa, from my perspective. However saying they are really part of this or that larger group or a mix of this or that larger group has to examined in the context of facts and with critical thinking. Binis are located in between Yorubas and Igbos. However Binis are also actually right in the middle of the “Edoid” language groups. There are multiple other different Edoid groups around the Binis who people have neglected to ascribe Yoruba or Igbo origin to, no doubt on the basis of these peoples' very unique languages and cultures and the implausibility of all of these these unique groups also happening to just “be” one of the larger groups or a mix of them. Also, saying they are Yorubas seems a bit like saying that Ibibios are Igbos. In the same way Ibibios are actually closer to Annang, Efik, and Ekoi than Igbo (from my understanding, and I'm not talking politics here), I would point out that Bini are actually closer to Esan, Etsako, Emai,Uneme, Urhobo, Isoko, etc. than Yoruba.

@Abagworo, If there is some general trend of non-Igbo Nigerians opposing anything said about Igbos which portrays them in a way at odds with some people's perception of them (such as the incorrect perception/stereotype that “Igbos are all just traders” when loads of neutral evidence and statistics says otherwise) then start another thread about that and don't mix it up with a debate about history. Don't insinuate that I was going out of my way to oppose neutral views (actually not “neutral” (by the way, not everything has to be for or against a people, you know, some views could just be facts or theories, without having any goal of either glorification or degradation in mind), but sourced from Igbo oral history) which I supposedly found “unacceptable” (actually I pointed out the misrepresentation of their origin and the consequent lack of objectivity in someone’s ”Igbo to Igala to everyone in Southern Nigeria” joke/theory, not the supposed “acceptability” or “unacceptability” of the Nri to Igala story and even pointed out a fact that would support the Nri to Igala story).

With regard to mixes, it's really the case that most groups in the South share common ancestry than it is that the different groups mixed after diverging from one another. Your idea of all Nigerian groups as mixes doesn't seem to correspond completely to reality. Sure in the East there might be heavy mixing between Ijaw and Igbo or Ibibio and Igbo and occasional mixing of Igbo and Igala and of course in the Midwest in Delta state the same probably occurred (i.e. the Itsekiris), but in Edo state I have not read of any evidence of much mixing prior to the modern era. The one mixed Edo group I can think of is the Edo-Akure. The other groups that could possibly be mixed are some of the Igbo communities in Edo state. That's about it. The others I don't see any mix in. Now the Western part of Nigeria was basically homogeneous prior to the modern era and the only part I would call mixed are those few areas where Nupes, Fulanis, or Edos became Yorubas. The vast majority of the west, however was homogeneous in the sense of not being anything other than different groups of Yorubas, not necessarily in all being descended from Oduduwa or something. Most of the Middle belt I would not call mixed either. Mixing only goes in certain directions so you can’t just assert that every group is mixed every which way. The history of some ethnic groups in Nigeria is not necessarily applicable to all.

ezeagu:
1. How could you write all that and not give me a link or something for Igala Yoruba language similarity?


2. I have not claimed that the Yoruba came out of the Igala, even though I'm going to say that I don't deny the possibility.

3. I didn't get my story from wikipedia and so there was no substitution.

4.
I still don't understand why the Igala couldn't have produced the Yoruba. Size is not a reliable thing to look at otherwise some proven theories of origin must have been miracles like the native peoples of those Indian islands. How many original groups have been wiped away?

And 5.
No one is claiming you people (except the Igala who Nri founded) because Edo and Igbo are related anyway and you don't know how much I know about any group.

1. Since it seems to be so much work to do so (actually, I know it’s not since you’ve certainly found much more obscure information before) I’ll help you out on the Igala-Yoruba thing:

http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~akinlabi/Yoruba_Facts.pdf
^^^^^

There’s one.
p. 1-2 are interesting although, it accepts the Oduduwa story without a second thought (no problem though, I’m only concerned about linguistics here). Also mentions linguistic evidence of them always being in their present location, but dispersing there from Northeastern Yorubaland and diverging from the Igala at that point. (What I suggested earlier.)

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=MJ7KylvsgYEC&oi=fnd&pg=PA65&dq=two+dialects+of+igala+and+yoruba+some++comparison&ots=dSFSQfrbmP&sig=EHl7CMN2jP0y2J9pkKjY9lKAeys#v=onepage&q&f=false
^^^^^
p. 71 and 73 are relevant here, but further pages talk about the degree of the relationships between languages. The pages which show the exact degree of the linguistic affinity between Igala and Yoruba in the context of the particular scheme being used in the book aren’t in the preview, unfortunately.



http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=NemX4nY2x3UC&oi=fnd&pg=PA79&dq=two+dialects+of+igala+and+yoruba+some++comparison&ots=TFZEorAJmY&sig=Xw9m7yFAW1RYtaNsERjJEh8xReU#v=onepage&q&f=false

^^^^^
Here’s one that’s more detailed.
p. 82 deals specifically with Yoruba and Igala
p. 84 (very interesting) deals with Yoruba- Edo , Yoruba- Igbo, Edo- Igbo, etc., which I’m sure you’ll find very interesting, given that other thread (“Similarity between Bini and Igbo”) where people were listing cognates.




2. Actually, you claimed that Southern Nigeria besides the Igbos (from whom the Igalas supposedly came) came from the Igalas. But you did it as kind of a joke so I’m going to let slide the obvious fact that if it is claimed that Southern Nigeria is from the Igalas, and that if Igbo is left out of this descent, then Yoruba makes the majority of that Southern Nigeria. Maybe you were implying only one small part of Southern Nigeria or something like that when you made that joke/theory, but that wasn’t clear since you just said Southern Nigeria.

3. Ok. Then the Igala to everything else thing was just an original conjecture on your part. I really haven’t seen the Igala to Yoruba theory outside of Wikipedia and your joke/theory blatantly implied such a theory whether you meant it to or not. I took it as you connecting the Wiki write-up which talks about “Western Igbos” with the Nri story but I’ll admit I was wrong on that count.

4. How can I make this clearer? It would be more plausible for Igalas to have “produced” the Yoruba rather than merely diverged away from them if the population of Igalas was much greater or if a plausible explanation was given of how later Yorubas in every area suddenly gained massive reproduction rates compared to all of their immediate Southern Nigerian neighbors (to overtake them in population), particularly the Igalas of whom they were supposedly a subset, without enormous genetic and behavioral difference. Otherwise it is more reasonable to suggest that Yoruba and Igbo composed major factions/proportions of the ancestral Eastern Kwa (Volta-Niger) group and that the smaller groups and the major groups diverged at some point. That is the accepted theory and I accepted it only because it makes more sense, not because the thought of Igala descent for Yorubas or other groups pains me somehow. 

With regard to Indian islands, I’m not sure exactly which islands you mean but do note that:

a) Packets of isolated populations on islands do not prove that each of these groups did not diverge from a larger parent group and are somehow some sort of ethnic origin point all on their own on each of their islands. Also note that the features of extreme distinction in culture and language (i.e. ethnic distinction) compared to large mainland groups, is almost always explained by their isolation on those islands, not as a property inherent in some way to the population themselves (not unlike the reason for unique evolutionary developments in animals on isolated islands compared to mainland groups, except culture and language replace biology in this case).

b) Thor Heyerdahl’s work pretty much proved that humans with little advanced technological capacity could reach far away islands thousands of miles away. The native peoples on any Indian islands, some of which are not at all thousands of miles away, didn’t appear there overnight. They got there physically. Where they got there from (i.e. the direction of the migration patterns from the mainland) and how long ago they got there to make them so distinct or not so distinct from the mainland groups is another matter and is determined by genetic studies and archaeological evidence, not origin stories. However, I have yet to see an Island group which subsequently acquired an enormous reproduction rate compared to previously larger groups that they were once apparently part of without having undergone some sort of unknown enormous behavioral change or enjoying some sort of enormous environmental advantages relative to their original group.

5. Fair enough.  Jokingly saying southern Nigeria originates from a Nri king’s loins is claiming primacy, rather than anything like relations. If you want to believe Nri founded Igala, do so. It's certainly a plausible claim, as I said earlier. But there's a difference between doing so and saying that the Igalas themselves ascribe to the story when apparently there is no evidence that they do. Anyways, I still don't see what the appeal is of claiming relation to this or that group. Why not claim relatedness to Urhobo? Why not Ogoni? (Maybe you do, but I haven't seen such here.)

ezeagu:
I don't really care if a random Igala website claims they're from some place else, most of these kingdoms websites of Nigeria exaggerate and put up false claims anyway, I look at their claims and put it against well researched facts and they don't match. Anyway, what Igala historians do you read, what Atta have you interviewed?

Look, I never said I cared what your opinion is on what random Igala people's opinions on their oral histories should be, that would be ludicrous. What you think Igalas should think about their beliefs about their origins is of no significance. Similarly, my own views on what Igbos should think about oral histories of their origins is of no significance and I never claimed it was. I never claimed that I had, paramount authority to adjudicate on all claims involving their history. When you made your joke/theory of Igbo --> Igala ---> southern Nigeria, I insinuated, in parentheses, that your claim of an Igbo/Nri origin for Igalas was of biased provenance, which it was, in order to attack the legitimacy of the joke/theory. I never actually disputed the claim of Nri kingship origins of Igala itself, rather I said that it was not found in Igala history, which it is not. In fact I stated that despite the fact that Igalas are linguistically close to Yoruba, the names of their kings, in some of the dynastic histories given, bear a marked possible Nri/Igbo influence, a fact I'm in no doubt that you were unaware of until I brought it up, whether you would actually admit as much or not.

The story of Igala from Igbo goes that Onoja, one of Eri's sons, founded the Igala (kingdom/people) and this appears in various forms but originates from Igbo sources (E. Elochukwu Uzukwu points out that the story even goes both goes both ways, one version has Nri having Igala origin, another has Igala having a Nri origin). The only mention of Igbo with regard to the Igala origin tales that I've come across (in book by Elizabeth Isichei (who's not at all biased against Igbo, lol, and who I consider a neutral) that I'm sure you'll GoogleBook) is that a captive Igbo hunter (a slave) married an Igala female ruler, Ebelejonu, and became one its earliest monarchs. But their tales also mention themselves as their origin, Benin as their origin (notice, I'm in no rush to claim them, or anybody else), and even Jukun as their possible origin. Basically they are not sure of their origin (no surprise there, not too many groups of people are). However, Igala oral history doesn't mention descent as a people from Igbos nor do they mention Nri in their origin tales. You only needed to contradict that they never mentioned Nri or that they never claimed Igbo descent. You only had to contradict that and I even asked you politely for a possible correction if you could provide one. But you did not or could not.

You talk about well researched facts but if in fact you did even a little preliminary research you would have already realized that the primary, rather than secondary, sources of the Igala from Igbo story originate from Igbo oral history and that that is the source of the research.


I did not make the assertion that Ehret found the story in a beer parlor. I made the assertion that as there are no other sources for such stories aside from Igbo oral historical sources, and as he provides no sources himself, and that as he was not there to verify the events as they were happening, his only possible sources for the statements are Igbo oral history. I never stated that Dr. Ehret should not have relied upon the history or that, when he found a source which gave a clear, pinpoint origin for the group of people he wanted to talk about, he should have rejected it and only relied on Igalas' own stories, which go in many directions. I never disparaged it because it was oral history, rather I corrected your impression that quoting Dr. Ehret contradicted my original statement that the story only has Igbo origins and that Igalas have never ascribed their origins to Nri (so far, though as I will say now for the third time, I'd be perfectly willing to retract such statements if contrary evidence was presented, this is just the internet).[quo

Stating that he accepted Igbo oral history on "good faith" doesn't imply that Igbo oral history is fraudulent or doubtful by default or whatever you might have been reading into that to make you start foaming at the mouth. Rather in "good faith" means without doing any other counter research or mentioning any diverging views after researching the oral history. Had you bothered to read any of the Benin articles I referenced in my other post (since you seem so interested in Binis, for whatever reason), you would have realized that numerous scholars including Alan Ryder, Patrick Darling, and even Joseph Eboreime did not accept many key parts of Edo oral history on good faith and that Benin studies were all the better for it. I don't accept Edo oral history on good faith and I don't feel that this makes me somehow unloyal to my ethnic group. Hopefully in the future you could learn to do the same. Next time actually read and think and you won't need to start concocting insult and offense where there is none.The phrase in "good faith" still stands and I'll use it anytime, all the time when referring to any historical sources which have to be treated in such a manner about any topic.

Now as for the claim of Nri kingship itself I actually don't have any problem with it. In fact, the son of a son that left his father's home and moved to a new land will not necessarily know who his grandfather is unless he is told by the father so it is not necessarily the case that Igalas must have tales of Nri or Igbo descent for it to be true that they do have that descent. This is something I've known but you chose to skew my position of the claim of Igala descent from Igbo not being known to Igala history into stating that it had to be incorrect and that people who relied on Igbo oral history for the version of the story, such as Dr. Ehret, got their stories from beer parlors.

However, the reason for my not blindly accepting the Igala from Nri theory the minute it was brought up, apart from the fact that I don't have some sort of ethnic interest pushing me to do so, and apart from the fact that they are classified as linguistically closer to Yoruba, is because numerous historians almost always suggest it was the other way around (which I don't believe) anytime Igbo and Igala are mentioned. It is usually insinuated that Igala founded Nri, or it is stated as a fact (which it might actually be) that several Northern Igbo groups/villages claim Igala descent, or that Igala was the dominant power in the region over Nri. Adiele Afigbo, J.S. Boston, Yesufu Etu, J. Ukwedeh, Elisabeth Isichei, have mentioned various stories which support one or more of these "Igala influence on Igbos in ancient or later times" theories. In particular the article "Onọjọ Ogboni: Problems of Identification and Historicity in the Oral Traditions of the Igala and Northern Nsukka Igbo of Nigeria" by Austin J. Shelton lends support to such views.

No, I don't know, back it up.

Nah. Not even worth my time. Dapobear and amingafar had a very interesting discussion on Igalas, look through Dapobear's posts as I certainly can't be bothered with this when the facts are available at the typing of a few keys and the  click of a button.

Yes, Christopher Ehret was at a beer parlour one day and picked up the information there?

Didn't say that. Didn't imply that. Next.

Books are researched, that's the reason not everyone gets published because you have to back your claims.

Obiously books are researched. No one would just waste their time typing hundreds of pages of conjecture about other people's histories, only to ruin their reputation and waste their money and time when it was published. However I find your reasoning here rather weak. Ivan van Sertima conducted arduous research involving very obscure and detailed sources before publishing his books, but are his theories and claims necessarily true because he researched a great deal before he presented them? No.

But perhaps this example is unfair as Van Sertima may be a quack while Ehret is actually legitimate. Let me make two better examples. A.J.P. Taylor, a famous historian, got a book published in which he attempted to rewrite the origins of the history of World War 2. He certainly researched the book, but not every one of his claims was on solid ground just because he did so. Just recently it was proposed that the level of detail and accuracy in early European Renaissance painting must have come from the introduction of the camera obscura to Europe by the Persian physicist Alhacen. Needless to say lots of research was put into that thesis and multiple articles have been published arguing its merits and flaws, but neither side will necessarily be 100% right merely by marshalling more cited artcles than the other. Reasoning and arguing in the context of history is paramount.

The fact that even a distinguished professor of history can suggest "probable" Igala origins of Benin, without also informing his readers that the Igala origin of Benin theory is directly dependent on the Igala = "Oghene" theory, and without also mentioning that the actual researchers who came up with this theory (Ryder, Thornton) admit that there is neither conclusive evidence for or against their theory, and without also mentioning any of the numerous disadvantages of the new theory over the previous Ife theory, should remind us that even great scholars can take new and possibly promising theories for actual facts.

You think he wrote that from word of mouth and "Igbo histories on good faith"? A veteran African historian who knows more about African history than anyone on this site?

As before, oral histories are either taken on good faith, whether from Igala, Edo, Igbo, Yoruba, etc. or they are blatantly rejected with sound reasoning when strong evidence for alternatives arises. I never said word of mouth, come on, that's ridiculous, as you'll see below, he doesn't even research in the area of Nigerian history to be able interview anyone for word of mouth stories.

Christopher Ehret is a Professor of African History that has had published books since the 1970s on African history. Maybe when you're published on James Currey.

Christopher Ehret is an African history Professor specializing in linguistics, who has published research articles on almost every area in Africa except the part of West Africa we are talking about (his focus is on East, Southern, Nilo-Saharan speakgin Africa, and to a lesser extent Central Africa), a quite telling fact. Unlike the sources I mentioned (Ryder, Thornton, Darling, Connah, Fagg, Fraser, etc.) he doesn't engage in, or has not attempted to produce peer-reviewed journal publications on ancient West African political and social history and has published nothing from direct research that could be considered to be about West Africa apart from a few articles on Bantu linguistics and language classification, though his other research is so broad that he could not possibly be faulted for wanting to include mention of other people's research and conclusions (such as that of Ryder or Thornton) in an area of African history he doesn't focus on in a general history book about Africa. I don't doubt that he's speaking from a position of authority- I'm not a historian- what I do know is that there are others who's research puts them on a higher authority on this particular subject matter (West African pre-colonial history) and who I've quoted at times in previous posts and this one. He could probably confirm for us though, whether Igala is as close to Yoruba as others have stated. He seems like a friendly guy (from an interview of his), email him about it, he'll probably reply.

Wikipedia?



You definitely clicked on the wrong link.

I assumed most of your claim about Igala---> Yoruba came from Wiki. I sure as hell can't find it anywhere else. I certainly haven't heard of any oral history or any story from any group which states the Igala ---> Yoruba bit besides Wiki so I would be very interested to see where you got it. Or did you just take the story of Nri ---> Igala as true, and then knowing that some stories say the Yorubas come from the east make the rest up yourself?(which is fine I guess, since you meant it as a joke originally) Yours seems like the wiki story except substituting Nri (for which there is an actual story) for Western Igbo. I took the Wiki write-up as the real story that you were getting your claims from, but if you just assumed East = Igala, even more reason not to take such ideas seriously.

I don't even understand this. So the logic here is that the original group has to be larger than the groups it produced or even a certain size? I don't know where you got this from, but from this logic it would be impossible for the Han Chinese to have descended from any other group or for all those migrating human groups to have come from small groups of families, I'm not looking at this any more because it's just wrong.

I'm sorry but this particular argument is just ridiculous to me. There is a world of difference between saying that Han Chinese, like all other humans, were descended from groups of migratory East Africans at one point who survived and reproduced at a greater rate than various other groups far away and stating that Chinese came from Japanese, Koreans, or Vietnamese or smaller peoples around them. Your claim of Igala origin for Yorubas is clearly along the lines of the latter, not the former. Who would believe that a people moved only a short distance away to one area and obtained a birth rate 18 times (!) (actually not necessarily 18 times at all, but many times more) what they previously had and suddenly somehow showed evidence of habitation of their new area far earlier than the people/area they had originated from showed evidence of habitation of their area even though they were supposed to have been migrating and the other group they supposedly originated from was supposed to have been sedentary by then?. The dates at which the migration from near the Niger-Benue confluence area to the the south are long after those areas had already shown evidence of habitation. At best, migrations from the Niger-Benue confluence region of a common ancestral Kwa speaking group whose languages had recently diverged from the Niger-Benue confluence region infused other southern areas with more population and displaced some speakers of other Kwa languages. If you had said something reasonable like this then I wouldn't even have bothered to discuss it. But the oversized population of the Yorubas relative to the Igala and their close proximity and similarity of language culture (in the general West African sense) is indeed good reason not to suppose they didn't descend from, but rather diverged from a parent group with the Igalas. You seem to have failed to grasp the difference between diverging from a away from a larger group with "descending from" a group coequal to, or possibly even smaller than you, in such a group.   You could argue that once the previously East Africans ancestors of Chinese got to Asia and after becoming a different people, developed different characteristics that account for their greater reproduction rate even when not living at a greater level of development/sustenance than others. You absolutely could not do the same for two African groups at equal parity in population at one point or with the later larger group even much smaller with only a slight (relatively) geographical separation and no enormous change in the innate character of one group.

A good example is Spain and the Latin American countries. They greater birth rate of many of these Latin countries compared to Spain (from which they get the Caucasian part of their mestizo descent from) is due to their being developing countries, and having a very different culture (i.e. behavior) than their European counterparts. You cannot say the same about Yoruba and Igala without concocting ridiculous theories about monumental changes in every aspect of the behavioral habits of Yorubas relative to the Igalas after ancestors supposed descent from them and movement a (geographically) small distance away.

Yoruba people claim that they came from the east. Or do professors win on this occasion and not traditional history?

How many times have I sided with oral history over professors? I certainly could side with whichever side I wanted to, but did you fail to remember that in this instance professors, researchers, etc. of African history are relying on oral history, accepting it with reasoning and evidence when they see reason to and rejecting it with reason and evidence when they see reason to. Like I said I don't accept oral history on only good faith. I accept the best arguments for and against historical interpretations based on oral history and evidence of various kinds. Yoruba oral history says the founder of what used to be their most important city came from the East. I have no reason to doubt this. Yet. Various researchers say there were migrations from the Niger-Benue confluence to their area so traditional history doesn't contradict professors in this instance. I just don't see how it could be assumed they were Igala because of one story which doesn't have other backing (and which I actually haven't seen outside of Wikipedia, or will I now hear that there were Igbo oral histories about Yorubas (who birthed Yorubas) in pre-coloinial times? ) when its much more likely that the Yoruba formed too large a percentage of the original "proto-Kwa" group to be descended by some smaller group and just have their birth rate magically skyrocket, in all areas of Yorubaland, over those who they were a subset of. Some Yoruba and some other Africans now claim that they came from Mecca, some from Egypt, some from "Isreal" (Israel). I could give numerous reasons why they look up to such places and want to associate their own peoples' histories with such places now, but that's a whole other discussion which I won't get into here.

Doesn't make any sense at all, wouldn't famine make people move into more fertile areas. Anyway, forget.

The famines I referred to are in oral histories of the Igalas that come much later (during their Idah dynastic time period, not before) than anytime like the point they were supposedly to have fathered the Yorubas. These were specific, isolated events which I was using to account for why the Igala population is not at 4-5 million or something like that and saying that even if the famines had never happened and their population was at 5 million it still wouldn't make the Igala--> Yoruba story plausible. The only thing I would admit as plausible is the direction of language differentiation. If it could be somehow shown that a large percentage of the proto-Kwa group went from speaking a language closer to Igala than Yoruba to gradually speaking a language closer to Yoruba than Igala as one particular Yoruba speaking group gained power and influence that could be the only explanation that could allow one to say Igala was "older" than Yoruba in some way


And yeah, let's forget. I don't see why you, and a few other people, are so eager to claim relations to groups (Bini, Igala) you know so little about. Later.

KenGali: ^^^Just do not mind this tensor Guy, he or she is just lifting post or some web material and pasting it here in an attempt to sound familiar with Nuclear Tech. If he actually understands the energy potential of Nuclear fission, and that the energy output in case of an accident is not limited to the design value, I do not think we would be having these arguments. Whats the use of wasting my time with such a human being?

By the way while I was reading  some post on nuclear waste, I started to think of how best to dispose such waste. The only natural nuclear reactor is the sun. If we can find a way to send wastes to the sun using unmanned vehicles. The waste and the vehicle will definitely heat-up and vaporise before getting to the sun, but I believe if they had already acquired momentum, the gas will keep heading in the direction of the Sun.

but some things are doubtful though: the first is that if solar wind (particle and photon radiations) are very strong near the sun they may reverse the momentum of the hurtling gas, but again the Suns gravity might compensate for that.  

The second is the long term loss of mass to the earth which can affect her orbit pattern, but we might compensate  by picking up equal mass of materials from other planets.

The third is that I doubt if the sun is actually stationary, hence may not be approached in a straight line

If you're really interested, read on:

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19780015628_1978015628.pdf

lastpage:
At times, l wonder why we as a people, dont take our image very seriously? Huh Huh

Why is it always one embarrassment, after another?

If l decide to list all the "international embarrassment" that have been bestowed on oneself, as a Nigerian, in the last one year, l guess it becomes understandable to forgive those people who ridicule Nigerians!

From the Abdul-Muttallab pant-bomber, to the Independence day Bomb-blast, from Boko-Haram massacre to unnecessary cholera deaths, from blink small-no blink-at-all electricity supply, decadent hospitals, death traps called roads, to that shameful Ibori trial in London, to pictures of Lagos residents cannibalizing a dead & rotten-ing Whale!

From the Bank executive "slap-on-the-wrist" sentence, to the realization that importers of many containers of sophisticated and high-calibre weapons can suddenly disappear into thin air, to allegations of officials using fake certificates (like the Custom Boss!) and

From the shameful episode (or was it home movie Shocked ) when Nigeria could not locate its President until he was pronounced dead, to our woeful performance in the South Africa World Cup (with all the un-official boxing matches that followed the sharing of the loot! Grin ),
Now Amos Adamu has added his own! Huh

Cant we just have a breathing space of good image for just one year? Even one month?

Madam Dora Akinyilu, this your re-branding seems to have taken a turn for the worse o, l suggest you weild the big stick if jingles have not worked!
Wetin sef? Angry Angry Angry

Damn.

This article is f ucking revolting. Virtually every single statement about Soyinka in this write-up was a bold faced lie and the writer stretches so hard to tarnish the name of a Yoruba who fought for "Igbo" causes in order to attack Yorubas in general because some (not all) of the people who recently exposed Emeagwali to the wider Nigerian community (he had been exposed multiple times before) happen to be Yoruba. The tribalism is just sickening.

Amazing story.