₦airaland Forum

mazaje:
olawabole

Hehehoho. . . abeg make we just dey watch alhaji dey hyperventilate.

reindeer:
As to possibility of religion and rationalism coexisting, well id say no, they are mutually exclusive because i don't think rationality will accomodate tye concept of 'faith' whihc is very central to religion.

Hmmm, how could I help you now, dear reindeer? Look at the two words you are confusing: "rationality" and "rationalism". These two are worlds apart and never mean the same thing! Yea, I guess because they sort of 'role' on our tongues in pronuncitaion, many people are unable to distinguish between the two! Phew, I tire.

It is just as in the case of people who misconstrue "simpli[b]city[/b]" for "simplis[b]tic[/b]". . . hehe, they are not the same!



Edited:

On the question of the topic, I would agree with reindeer that religion and rationalism are mutually exclsuive - as far as the Christian faith is concerned.

@mazaje,

mazaje:
your analogy falls flat because no parent has ever claimed to be all knowing, all powerful and all merciful. . . no child prays to his parents for protection from diseases, and all types of dangers, but people pray to their god for such things.

I have watched with bemused interest and hoped that someone with good thinking could point that out to our dear reindeer.

In all my years as a muslim, especially on the shore of america, probably longer than you have been alive, I have never heard of Muslims, calling Muhammad (as) lord!

The following examples were given above:

[list][list]A Sermon delivered by *Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall* in the year 1919
Muslim devotional pictures
The Sufi "The Communal Congregation" prayers
The plaque of white marble at the great wall of the Great Mosque of Tripoli
Shiite muslim sect Alawites' confession of faith[/list][/list]

. . . all of which categorically refer to Muhammad as "Lord". You may never have heard of any of these groups. . . and I can forgive that; afterall you have always been largely ignorant of your religion and people! I haven't even given you a list yet, rather the above were just samples you can easily find on the internet with their webpages.

If you and your esteemed bench-warming lawyer friend can take the trouble to read wide and be informed, then I can oblige you some documents published by Muslim scholars around the world. Those materials may not be on the internet as yet (I am not aware that they are), so you would really have to be open and willing to do intense search on the ground for them. You will then find where Muhammad is categorically called "Lord" by such scholars down through the ages, and then maybe you could begin to be better enlightened about issues you have never known all your life!

Best wishes, but once again I invite you to stay in the Christian section long enough to enjoy the fellowship you greatly lack in the muslims section. Shalom.

olabowale:
In all my years as a muslim, especially on the shore of america, probably longer than you have been alive, I have never heard of Muslims, calling Muhammad (as) lord! Now it is in your dubious mind that you bring it up!

I cannot disparage you for not having heard Muslims calling Muhammad "Lord" - you must have lived in only one corner for too long. I have had the fortune of hearing them calling Muhammad nothing short of "Lord", and it is not any duplicity intended on my part, sir.

olabowale:
Did you get it from a Muslim website or that of your comrade Keferis? Please give us the website so that we can see it for ourselves. And while you are at it, give us the ahadith details, too.

Well, I was going to provide you with a list of published materials by respected Muslim institutions. Fortunately, some of these materials are now found on the internet - by Muslims themselves - so I shall simply satisfy your quest accordingly, sir.

A few example:

---

[list][list]-- A Sermon delivered by *Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall* in the year 1919

‘O people, listen to my words, and understand the same. Know that all Muslims are brothers one to another. You are one fraternity. Nothing which belongs to one of you is lawful to his brother unless given out of free goodwill. Guard yourselves from committing injustice.’

"Those words are from the solemn admonition which our lord Muhammad (God bless him!) addressed to the whole Muslim community from Mount ‘Arafat on the occasion of his last pilgrimage to Mecca – The Pilgrimage of Farewell, as it is called."

source: Fraternity of Masud  [main webpage: www.masud.co.uk] [/list][/list]

*M. M. Pickthall was a Muslim translator of the Quran (The Meaning of the Glorious Qur'an (London, 1930). It is remakable that he should have known better to address Muhammad as "our Lord" especially since he was not a novice muslim, having worked as a journalist for Muslim newspapers as well as headmaster of a Muslim boys' school.

---

From a Muslim websites advertizing Muslim devotional pictures, we have the following words on the last picture of the page: http://www.hf.uib.no/religion/popularikonografi/exhib02.html

[img]http://www.hf.uib.no/religion/popularikonografi/bilder/17b.jpg[/img]
[list][list]. . .In this family tree we find the Prophet's name in the midle of the upper part, with near relatives, wives and children and descendants below. The medallion in the right corner contains the sentence Allah jalli jalaluh, "God, Mighty and Glorious is He!" In the left corner medallion: "The magnificent family tree of our [color=#B22222]lord Muhammad[/color], God's messenger, God bless him and grant him savation, and the people of his house (his family and descendants)."[/list][/list]

---

From a Sufi published material ('Signs of the Wali ') which is also located online (http://epress.anu.edu.au/islamic/wali/mobile_devices/index.html), you will find in section D - "The Communal Congregation" some of the prayers of this Sufi group which include the following addressing Muhammad as "Lord" --

[list][list]Then please form an Intention (niyat).

In my prayer upon the Prophet, may the prayers and peace of Allah be upon him, I have willed to obey Your order, to believe in Your Prophet, to love him and yearn for him and glorify Your power. With Your favour and kindness, accept my prayer and clear the obscurity of my heart, and make me one of your worthy believers.

O God, pray upon our [color=#B22222]lord Muhammad[/color], the illiterate Prophet, and upon his House and all his Companions.

Let us recite the shalawat.

O God, Your full prayers and complete peace be upon our [color=#B22222]lord Muhammad[/color] through whom our troubles will be settled, our hour relieved, our needs fulfilled, our desires achieved, and our final hour gratified. His holy face will turn clouds into rain. Bless his House and Companions every moment, as many times as the number of everything known to you.

source: http://epress.anu.edu.au/islamic/wali/mobile_devices/ch08s04.html [/list][/list]

---

An online digital publication of wordings of one of the plaques on the great wall of the Great Mosque of Tripoli reads:

[list][list]The second inscription is set in the eastern wall of the arcade around the courtyard and refers to the completion of the mosque. A plaque of white marble shaped like a trilobed arch on a horizontal band, it comprises ten lines of naskh and reads as follows: "In the name of God the Merciful, the Compassionate, only the one who believes in God and the Last Day shall inhabit God's places of worship [Qur an 9.18]. Our master the sultan, the king, the victorious, the just, the learned, the warrior, the triumphant, Nasir al Dunya wa l-Din Muhammad ibn Qala'un, may God perpetuate his reign, has ordered these riwaqs to complete the blessed mosque, during the governorship of His High Noble Excellency Kustay al Nasiri, governor of the province of Tripoli, may God fortify his victories, under the supervision of His High Excellency Badr al Din Muhammad, son of Abu Bakr, inspector of flourishing diwans, may God lengthen his favor. It was completed in the months of the year seven hundred and fifteen [A.D. 1314-15], may God bless our [color=#B22222]lord Muhammad[/color]. The humble servant of God Ahmad ibn Hasan al-Ba'abaki the architect has supervised [or undertaken] its construction."

source: http://archnet.org/library/sites/one-site.jsp?site_id=2489 [/list][/list]

---

Another example of a Shiite muslim sect know as the Alawites (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawite) confesses the following:

[list][list]The 'Alawi profession of faith states: "I testify that there is no God but 'Ali ibn-Talib the one to be worshipped, no Veil but the [color=#B22222]lord Muhammad[/color] worthy to be praised, and no Gate but the Lord Salman al-Farisi the object of love".[/list][/list]

[list][list]In addition to the hierarchies, the 'Alawis also revere many prophets and apostles. The total number of hierarchies, apostles and prophets is said to be 124,000".

source: http://www.shaikhsiddiqui.com/alawi.html [/list][/list]

---

Now, all the above are merely examples cutting across various sects within Islam so that you can understand that the Muslim confession of Muhammad as Lord is not perculiar to just one sect, but is widely known in the Muslim world. Before my conversion, I have actually heard Muslims referring to Muhammad as "Lord", and no one ever coughed because the mullahs actually encouraged it.

The one question I have always asked is why Muslims would have a heart attack over Christians confessing Jesus Christ as Lord when they themselves knew that they have always called Muhammad the same thing - "Lord"?!?


Later, if you may, I urge you to read M. M. Pickthall's sermon on that link (or try and find his 1919 sermon - if your mullah will not deceive you by lying that such a document doesn't exist). . . then read through the whole text and especially what Pickthall said about praying to God the Father.

@Olabowale,

olabowale:
And you have not found the wisdom to list a single one!

I had the common sense to ask you if you wanted the list - all you needed to do was say yes. This pretentious gambits you often pull is laughable!

olabowale:
At least I on the other hand, did not have to wait for you to press my hand to quote Mark 12 verse 29!

That is because nobody ever tried to deny that Jesus Christ is Lord.

olabowale:
Do the same! A muslim lawyer was telling me that your article, where Muhammad is being called some form of lord, is a lie.

It was not my article, and I'm glad that you found a "lawyer" who is ready to soothe your troubled conscience by referring to it as a lie. If he was worth his onions, he should not be deceiving you but rather checking out the publications of the I[/b]slamic [b]S[/b]upreme [b]C[/b]ouncil of [b]A[/b]merica. Let me remind both of you where to locate a small sample of their confessions again: http://www.islamicsupremecouncil.org/bin/site/wrappers/spirituality-shadhuli.html - all you need to do is go check it out, and stop whinging.

olabowale:
A fraudulently concorted material to try to denegrate and relegate Islam to the same level as Christianity by your claim that some muslims have the same general mindset of lordship as the Christians.

Lol. . . the typical lullaby of untaught muslim mindset! You don't know a wink of your islamic history, so I can excuse you.

olabowale:
But then i would not be surprise if we have some [b]demented people saying Muhammad is their lord, anyhow!

Okay, I see. The "demented people" should definitely include people like M. M. Pickthall - a muslim translator of the Quran who himself referred to Muhammad as "[color=B22222]our Lord Muhammad[/color]" in 1919, yes? Please ask, and I'll refer you to the English translation of his message online which was produced by Muslims themselves. I encourage you to read the original and wake up to your worst nightmares.

The problem with you is that you often open your mouth as do some rascally muslims and berate your own muslim brethren before you even have the conscience to examine what they have taught! Why do Muslims often do this sort of thing - castigating their own people? Ha. . . na wah O!

olabowale:
(A good example of those who call themselves muslims are the nation of Islam, headquartered in Chicago. They used to have an arab man in Detroit who said or they believed that he was the reincarnation of God. Sound familiar?).

Lol. . . Olabowale, calm down. No let fear catch you unnecessary - my list does not even include abberrational groups like that. I'm referring to people who have produced your own Quran translations for your English brethren, people who are respected as "muslim scholars", institutions and Muslim councils where majority of Muslims are identified, and even the sahih ahadiths. Is the nation of Islam your fear? Relax. . . they won't wound you.

olabowale:
Aburo, you are just a time waster. When you are serious, I will reconsider engaging you indialogue!

That's what I have always invited you to. Your call, and don't panic eh?

olabowale:
In the maintime, produce verifiable evidences of all your accusations. Use Islamic sources. What the christians say will be definitely dubious, since they are only trying to malign Islam, without any boundary to their effort.

I can do so, and I hope you can satiate your thirst before it is mistakenly deleted. Note that it is not Christians who have produced these materials but rather Muslims themselves. My pity for people like you is that they will deny what they have produced so that you're left deceived as ever, and then in rage you turn back and call them "demented people" and curse them as best you care - it is not my worry.

So stay tuned and sample a few. Enjoy, alhaji egbon!

@Chrisbenogor,

Chrisbenogor:
Great, if the events were random it would mean that there is no force controlling things on this earth everything that happens to us is as a result of purely our choices and not influenced at all, you catching my drift?

I anticipated you long ago, so no surprises there. Remember that I was merely prognosticating your inference. However, if "everything" that happens to us is just purely "random", then we are to believe that there is nothing that could be observed to be "ordered". And you of all people know that is really far from reality. The only thing one could say is that the inference thereof is subjective and not empirical - not in any sense of the word.

However, even if I were to follow your lead, how do you account for the fact that some people have influenced events in life? I know of so many such issues. . . and we could broaden this to include even the paranormal experiences in our real world. What is really wrenching this idea is that the concepts are being narrowed to simplistic hypothesis, and that is so far removed from reality. Let me attend upon your example and show you what I mean:

Chrisbenogor:
So for instance if someone prays for financial help and someone gives him some money after some time it would be a total coincidence.

There are some issues that one may assume as "coincidence". But bros, if you have ever witnessed events more intricate than this, you would not be so inclined to assume that events could be written off on random basis.

In another thread, you confided in me that you had witnessed some 'charms' which produced certain results that are difficult to explain scientifically. I applaud that frankness; but then, would one assume that as a case of "random" occurences?

Perhaps an easier way to put it would be to prognosticate the hypothesis. By this, I mean that we may take one issue at a time and work out our inferences therefrom and see where they lead.

So, let me start by hypothetically assuming that the incident was random instead of ordered. Now, how do we proceed from there?

Lol, dear bros. I can understand how you feel - I've been there too (sometimes the words fail us when we have something weighty to share).

Anyhow, let me try and follow your line of reasoning. You offered that:

Chrisbenogor:
. . I think fate sums it up, fate is the end result of what happened. So the events that led to the end result, do you think they were ordered or random?

It seems to me that you're trying to help us see two things in your application: (a) "fate", and (b) "destiny". Although used interchangeably, it appears that the simple difference between them in your outline is just a matter of events that are either "random" or "ordered". But actually, it seems that both terms (fate and destiny) are defined as events that are "ordered". If this is the case, then we have nothing to project in terms of events that are "random". Am I missing something here?

Chrisbenogor:
@pilgrim
I was not hinting at being "Saved" and I know its not going to be a general concesus.

I know. Just thought to help our readers understand the difference it makes because I'm sure that the topic of the thread may easily lead to that inference of 'salvation'.

However, leaving those behind for a moment, I'm trying to establish a connection between 'random' events and 'fate'.

Let's look at it this way: generally speaking, people tend to look at 'fate' as defining events as ordered or "inevitable". In this regard, I think the case is made already and does not need to be discussed further upon a question of whether these events were "ordered(divine) or were they random". Thus, if fate is defined in terms of what is "ordered", why would we be yet asking whether the events were "ordered" or 'random'? You see my point?

As I said earlier, without trying to be dogmatic, one would need to first establish a strong connection between the concepts being discussed before expecting any informed inputs. How does one expect to link 'random' events to 'fate, destiny and predestination'?

@Chrisbenogor,

Okay, I promised to come back and share a few things.

The question of the thread again: "Was It Destiny, Fate Or Predestination That Saved You?"

Well, I'm persuaded that davidylan's initial entry actually underscores the whole point - from a Christian perspective. What saves anyone is. . .? But wait, what is one being saved from?

If salvation is what we're discussing, then the simple answer is this: neither destiny, nor fate, nor predestination saves anyone. Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is what secures salvation.

Now the example you gave in expounding what you wanted us to think about was the case of the boy who was hit by the bullet? Was it destiny, fate or predestination that saved the woman rather than the boy? I don't know - we may never be able to tell (IMHO). That difficult events happen even to believers is clearly taught in the Bible. Consequently, one has to understand what the Bible defines as predestination if a good understanding could be obtained.

'Predestination' is often misunderstood by many. God did not ordain anyone to be lost or saved; people rathermake their choice between both concepts and are either saved or lost. The idea that some people are "destined" to be saved while others are to be lost regardless of what they do is a fatalistic ideology which is not taught in the Bible. One may find this 'fatalistic' ideology in many faiths and religions, but definitely not in the Biblical worldview. However, there are 3 basic understanding that I think the Bible gives about the word "predestination" and its derivatives. Basically, as regards our salvation, it simply means that God had desired that people are saved rather than lost, and those who embrace that offer of salvation actually are made partakers of that divine predestination.

I don't remember reading about "fate" in the Bible; but if one should follow the definitions offered earlier in the OP, there may be some concepts that are identical with the Christian worldview. 'Identical', in terms of what underlying currents both ideas express. Same could be said of 'destiny'.

Generally speaking, there are many ideas about all 3 words/concepts, so it is not going to be a single concesus among discussants on what exactly we should be looking for here.

@littleb,

Reminder:

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=163349.msg2796061#msg2796061 date=1221299469]Anyhow, having come this far, I have a simple question for you if you may be kind enough to answer it. It appertains to the claim by Muslims that the Quran is the most scientifically accurate book among all. I'm not seeking to get embroiled in any prolonged argument; but after all the accusations against the Bible have been made, please leave those aside and let me know if you can answer just this one question for me. Please. I only have one question about your own defence of that book, so please kindly let me know if and when you may oblige me.

Thank you. [/quote]

Olumitide:
Religion is bogus bogus bogus. Believe and don't ask questions. Sacrilege to ask questions.

It all depends on which 'religion' you had in mind. I wonder why people already make up their minds even before they examine their own default assumptions. We (or should I speak for myself), I know that Christianity does not project the idea of 'believe and don't ask questions'. The question is whether the enquirer is willing to engage his presumptions honestly and intelligently.

olabowale:
Can we consider this with the part of your Bible that claim Jesus to be god? Or son of god? Can we compare the few, in islam, if any that call prophet Muhammad, a lord, to your 100% whole lordship and sonship you bestow on Jesus, as Christians?

At least, Christians are not hypocrites who pretend that Jesus Christ is Lord - they openly confess Him as such, and a true Christian will not deny that confession. If Muslims refer to Muhammad as "Lord" and you allege that as "hypocritically and regretfully so" (your exact words), I can understand why you're seriously in dilemma to compare. The one thing that makes me smile is that you cannot compare such regret and hypocrisy of your muslim brethren to the openness of Christians.

olabowale:
We in Islam say that those who in Islam call anyone, including Muhammad, a servant and slave of his Lord, Allah, lord or god, deviants and out of islam. But you are very proud to wera the badge of calling a mere human being, who ate, deficated and behave not differently from human being, god and your lord.

Olabowale, do you want the list of these muslims who refer to Muhammad as "Lord"? They are not norminal muslims O. . . they are well established and respected names in Islam! Please ask, and in due course I shall serve you the very long list. Would you also be saying that those muslims are "deviants and out of Islam"? I request your simple, direct and sincere answer, thank you.

olabowale:
By the way I have spoken to a person who is familiar with the North American group you claim to be calling Muhammad (AS) their lord! The person said to me that it is not possible. I think that you and your group, whereever you get the document from, have done a snow job on them! you have doctored the documents. Thats shameful!

Yes indeed - it is very shameful that your friend would deny it, and it is very shameful that the Islamic Supreme Council of America actually referred to Muhammad as "Lord" and you guys are busy consoling your consciences on convenient denials. The simple thing to do was to check out the article - I merely quoted it and changed nothing in the quote. I didn't write or embed that website in anyway - and if you're too ashamed to discover that Muslims of such a respected "Supreme Council" are guilty of your cavil, I don't see how that affects me.

The list is ready anytime you need to go through, and remember it includes:
Muslim scholars,
Muslim translators of the Quran,
Muslim councils and associations in several countries,
Islamic literature, and. . .
sahih ahadiths.


My one question is this: if Muslims freely refer to Muhammad as "Lord" why are they upset and disturbed that Christians refer to Jesus Christ as "Lord"?  Can you please take care of your own house before you try to school others on what you're largely ignorant about?

Shalom.

@Olabowale,

No need for the vexations. I asked 3 simple questions - if you couldn't answer them, I can forebear with you because it has always been the default attitude to assume when you have always evaded issues.

Nonetheless, in love and simplicity let me make a few remarks to your reposte above:

olabowale:
Do you have it in the Qur'an where muslims are permitted to call Muhammad, lord? Do you have it in the Ahadith where Muhammad told his companion that it is okay to call him, lord? If you can't find any place to support your silly prepositions, then the incoherence is all yours.

The incoheence is not mine in as much as I'm not the one who wrote the ahadiths where Muhammad is referred to as "Lord". If you don't know, simply say you don't know and nothing will happen to you.

However, there are several ahadiths where Muhammad is referred to as "Lord", and that is why I asked you those simple 3 questions. There's no need to be super-reactive because someone is pointing out to you what you have often asserted contrary to clear evidence. If you want the ahadiths to be produced, I'll gladly post them to remind you (and readers), and then you can decide to eat your own words.

olabowale:
Do muslim performs Zina, steal, backbite, etc and each actions they have been forbidden in the Qur'an and ahadith? Yes many do!

You asked the question, you answered it so well. Thank you.

olabowale:
Can honest mind therefore conclude that muslims call Muhammad lord,except those who may just bear the name, hypocritically and regretfully so!

This is why I asked earlier: "(c) can you tell us why Muslims refer to Muhammad as "Lord" and yet they are restless when they hear Christians refer to Jesus Christ as "Lord"?"

Lol. . . okay, if you're alleging the hypocrisy to the I[/b]slamic [b]S[/b]upreme [b]C[/b]ouncil of [b]A[/b]merica, I forebear.

Also, it's quite unfortunate that many Muslim scholars who have referred to Muhammad as "Lord" come under your allegation of hypocrisy and regret, not so? If the moderators would permit, I could give you a very long list of other Muslim scholars, Muslim translators of the Quran, Muslim councils and associations in several countries, Islamic literature and sahih ahadiths. These [b]all refer to Muhammad as "Lord" in unmistable terms both in Arabic and English, and the evidence is not a secret. Are you still going to maintain that those who would be mentioned are regretfully "hypocritical"? Are you upset with me for simply showing you the evidence that removes and wastes your assertions that Muslims never refer to Muhammad as 'Lord'?

You were convinced that Muslims never refer to Muhammad as "Lord"; but now you don't kow what to do with the shocking revelation that they actually do so. The truth is that reknowned and established names among Muslims are the ones who actually refer to Muhammad as "Lord" - and the evidence could be provided if you care and can stand the shock of the simple truth in that regard.

The problem with many people (especially unlearned muslims) is that they have never taken the time to carefully investigate these matters. It has been taken for granted that nobody would notice these issues; but as soon as they are pointed out, it is quite a funny episode to watch the reactions of muslims around the world who are in shock that they never realize these matters. Even the Western world and politicians are easily fooled when Muslims deny these matters - a lot of resources are being spent to cover up the clear evidence; but relax, dear Olabowale. . . truth does injury only to the person who loves falsehood.

Though I may not know the tune of that song, thank you davidylan for sharing.

Jesus is Lord.

[quote author=A_K_O link=topic=169302.msg2797150#msg2797150 date=1221318101]Good day everyone
Olabowale et.al.
This thread was
Not created to
Debate the divinity
Of Jesus in
An insulting [/b]manner.

Therefore posts like[b], , , , E T C[b]
Will be deleted
Next time around[/b]
So this is
A very friendly
[color=#FFFF00]Bright Yellow Card[/color]
God Bless You [/quote]Thank you A_K_O.

Is that all?


Okay, we hear.

. . God bless you

. . . in Jesus Name.

FifiO:
FifiO
Is no one interested in joining my commission,please?
I'll be waiting for your e-mail, or call 08036970282

Blessings!

I'll wire you an email soon!

olabowale:

As it turned out, you're the same gentleman who cried that Muslims never refer to Muhammad as "Lord" of any kind - my response was to show how far you were from reality by showing you that even the Islamic Supreme Council of America actually refers to Muhammad as "Lord". Remember - it is your 'supreme council', not my own! So you can argue forever that they are not muslims. . . what's my worry.

I don't have to cry before you hear me. I am a lion. I roar! Since I am older, my voice is deeper than yours. You will know the diffrerence right away. If a group of people decided to deviate from the precepts set up in the Qur'an and the Ahadith, should Islam, indeed the Qur'an and ahadith be blamed for it? Come on girl. You are not making sense!

Olabowale, lol . . . please save the childish attitude and let's talk in simple terms, if you may. Can you answer me these few simple questions?

(a) did you never say that Muslims never refer to Muhammad as a "Lord" of any kind?

(b) since they actually do refer to Muhammad as "Lord", why are you trying to say that those muslims are not muslims as well? Are you in any position to deny them of their identity as "muslims"?

(c) can you tell us why Muslims refer to Muhammad as "Lord" and yet they are restless when they hear Christians refer to Jesus Christ as "Lord"?

Just let's talk if you may. No need for all the incoherent "roaring". Thank you.

@Olabowale,

olabowale:
Dishonesty and lie! Whereever i said it you should bring out to bear! You can't can you, since it is not there! ko ree so wun!

Can you explain why it was deleted? I knew you would hypocritically come and deny this afterwards.

olabowale:
I don't have to cry before you hear me. I am a lion. I roar! Since I am older, my voice is deeper than yours. You will know the diffrerence right away. If a group of people decided to deviate from the precepts set up in the Qur'an and the Ahadith, should Islam, indeed the Qur'an and ahadith be blamed for it? Come on girl. You are not making sense!

This is a sad "roar" because you are so ignorant of your own ahadith! Did your ahadith not refer to Muhammad as "Lord" - or do you need to be taught the elementary things of your religion? I am so sorry for you: go roar to the Islamic Supreme Council of America, they may teach you why they call Muhammad "Lord".

olabowale:
On the other hand, your Bible fluctuates between reality that God is One and never have been seen by any human, and the fantasy of trinity, reincarnation, human being the exact form of God, and Jesus being he, the cogodship! Oro e sun mi! I think you are itching for a fight. The good fight kind of fight! Pele. A ti go e! See, the a ti here is a majestic pronoun, referring to me alone. I have also read where you use the same a ti for yourself. How come you used it?

You don belleful? Is this all you can do with your lack of peace? I have told you before: if you are never satisfied with Islam, remain here and enjoy!

olabowale:
Ibadan lo mo oo mo layi po!

Amin.

amen. just share.

Psalm 9:1
I will praise thee, O LORD, with my whole heart; I will shew forth all thy marvellous works.

ayinba1:
See christian spirit

we've seen worse

from muslim friends.

if you've better

share the same.

olabowale:
The good fight should not involve blows and spears and guns and bunker busters. Christianity is "peace loving" religion. If they whack you on one cheek, then the other cheek you must turn for a bigger whacking!

I can understand why you're always seeking to "whack" people. Please continue to show why you're restless, and may God give you the peace you desperately need.

olabowale:
@Pilgrim.1 « on: September 10, 2008, 09:22 PM »
I wonder if the above is coming directly from God to the "inspired Bible writers"? Is that from Paul, or is it from Jesus, or is part of the word of God Almighty, who is the Creator, alone? You see that your hyposthesis is merely a bad one. Yet you have precipitiously recorded it a proven and alway applicable theoretical formulae! What problem can this verse solve; 100% word of God or just desired statement from Paul, entered into the Bible? It shows some form of diltion if you always assumed everything in the Bible was from God and no one else!

All the same, I fully embrace it. That verse (to fight the good fight) does not sound like Jihad, or the restlessness you have always exhibited. It was one of the verses that helped me to overcome my hatred and prejudice against Christians and Jews - and that was what led me to know that the Quran has no justification to hate them. I would rather love the Jews and Christians than be unhealthily prejudiced against them. What you gain by your constant meaningless rants against them is left to you.

God bless you. . . in Jesus Name.

@Olabowale,

olabowale:
@Chrisbenogor: She is too busy defending, the indefensible, by bubbing and weaving her way, all the while doing the rope a dope of "Ali Bumayee's rumble in the Jungle!" Am sure she has been there too. And aint, get there yet!

You don't make sense out of anything, and that's ok because nothing has changed. You're not alone - Muslims many times do not make sense. So there.

You started out accusing the prophets of things they never said. Have you washed your dirty mind yet? If that particular dilemma is what is making you restless, what's my worry?

As it turned out, you're the same gentleman who cried that Muslims never refer to Muhammad as "Lord" of any kind - my response was to show how far you were from reality by showing you that even the Islamic Supreme Council of America actually refers to Muhammad as "Lord". Remember - it is your '[b]s[/b]upreme [b]c[/b]ouncil', not my own! So you can argue forever that they are not muslims. . . what's my worry.

Now if Muslims have the cheek to play the hypocrisy of referring to Muhammad as "Lord", why is it eating away at your heart that Christians know Jesus Christ as "Lord"? At least, they do not go about being hypocrites as you guys - and because I could no longer accommodate that hypocrisy, I simply left your Islam for you. Any quarrels about that?


Now, when you're done belly-dancing, could you allow my dear littleb to clear his throat and let me know if he's able and willing to answer the only one question I have for him? Thank you.

If you can't accommodate that, it is all the more reason why I constantly invite you to stay on this thread long enough to enjoy the fellowship you lack in the Muslim section that is making you desperately travel to this section. Jesus is indeed "Lord", and I don't wait for any "supreme council" to shout that for me from the minaret.

Please stay long enough and enjoy. God bless you. . . in Jesus Name. 

how much is involved?