₦airaland Forum

olabowale:
@Kola Oloye: « #5 on: Today at 12:20:19 PM »
Read your bible. It is either that his mother, with the so called stepfather or earthly father, Joseph the capenter ran off with him. Or worse still when he was able to do it alone, somewhat older than an infant, did it on his own. Either way way we know that a life giver can not be running scared for his own life!

Conjecture without knowledge is a terrible waste of the mind.

olabowale:
Kola, my man, read up on your Bible or just do goggle search on on the topic; Jesus escaped to Egypt or some thing like that. Or just say Jesus in Egypt. That should do it.

Do you read the Bible yorself? At least we know that Google serves as your platform for misinformation - and we have seen you demonstrate it endlessly.

olabowale:
Am waiting for the man who wants to discuss Bible and or Qur'an! I wonder what shows?

We have been there before. . . what was the result? This endless "waiting" that never surfaces when simple questions are asked is nothing new.


By the way. . . where's littleb?

Abba Father, Your Name is wonderful beyond words
Your holiness is beautiful in every season
The love we enjoy by your grace sustains and renews us
. . . and for great and small blessings, I am thankful.

manmustwac:
Praying may make you feel better but it will never solve your problems.

Prayer is not designed as a "feel better" idea. It appears that way and is wrongly assumed as such by those who have no clues what it is.

Glory to Jesus
Praise His Name


Prince of peace
be with all.

Father, this is a new day and we thank you for it.
We thank You for Bisi's recovery,
we thank You for the renewed strength and healing to her body,
we are grateful for the love to fellowship together and claim healing for Bisi.
To God be all the glory - in Jesus' Name. Amen.

cold:
But do u rilly want us to get into this Bible/qouran debacle?It cld get down right nasty.

We've been there so many times in the past. You could try to reason with them yet again on the same recycled arguments and still get to see that nothing has changed.


[quote author=dudu-bobo link=topic=170069.msg2784984#msg2784984 date=1221132355]

olabowale:
But humans have existed , successfully, from the union of two people, Adam and his mate Eve! Thats wa avery very long time before Jesus can on the scene of mankind! In the time of Noah, as an example, many were perished and only those who survided along with Noah repopulated the earth! What role did Jesus place in the destruction of the many and the salvation of the very few that were saved under Noah? Zero!

And in the destructon of Pharaoh, did Jesus play any role? Was Jesus known at that time? No! And in that safe passage of Moses and the children of Israel through the sea, did Jesus entered into the equation? Again, no!

But even Jesus him was reported to have escape to Egypt at some point before the Bible reported that he was finally murdered! How is it possible that he is a giver of life, when he can not even preserve his own? You this guy, you need to reconstitute your thinking!

The above is notthing but an absolute display of ignorance concerning the person and personality of Jesus.[/quote]It shows.

olabowale:
AlQur'an has nothing in common with the bible, be it Old or New Testament or even the Psalm!

Very good, sir. Impressive. You have just begun to discover the amazing truth of your own fraud. More to come.

Bless you. . . and many thanks.

olabowale:
I guess the "inspired writers," are not the same as the "Prophets of God!"

Making that inference simply means the Quran's claim is not honest. The Quran recognizes the same Biblical prophets and acknowledges them; the hadiths also acknowledge them; Islamic history concretely establish that Muhammad reverred the same Torah that the Jews have been reading and which has never been lost; and not in one instance did the Quran deny that those prophets were the same as found in the Bible.

Olabowale, wetin dey bite you? The prophets did not use those words to include sex. The dishonesty there is for someone to put sex into it when he knows the prophets never did so. Is that the attitude that Muslims exemplify?

Oh my goodness. . . make una leave this guy alaone nah!

manmustwac:
pilgrim am not quoting out of context check the link below

http://www.indianchild.com/animal_kingdom.htm

Thank you, my dear, thank you. I patiently read through and it was more a conjecture than a concretely established fact. "Most scientists believe" is not the same thing as concluding that what they "believe" is actually concrete fact.

A little number juggling, though:

[list]"Total number of described species,  1,750,000
Possible nr. with unknown species: 14,000,000"[/list]

The ones they knew totalled just under 2 million. . . they ones they inflated (under the disguised "Possible nr" is "unknown", but let's say in excess of 14 million. Smart fellows. . . the lollypop lady should have been awake!

Look, don't mind me this evening - I'm just having a light mood this evening. I appreciate your response, though. . . and God bless.

Queenisha:
@ pilgrim1, yes it's nwando /babyosisi

I knew it!

Oh, darling. . . please don't mind me. I was long too gone to have known for sure. I hope you can forgive me. . . I trust you. Nne, thank you. . . your love never dies!

olabowale:
And if I have ever lied to you in secret, I hereby release you to expose me to the whole world! If you can't seize this chance, then we can know who the liar is!

We've been there before many times in the past. Recently, you brought sex into the words of the prophets where they never even hinted such. Humility doesn't come by overblown shakara, so please take a chill pill.

Just a reminder. . .




Just keep shouting . . .

doesn't change Scripture -

God is Abba. .

which means "FATHER"


Do you know Him?

mazaje:
pilgrim what are you driving at? pastors are the only ones that reference god when cheating people most of the times. . . . .

My point is simple: anyone can deceive people with just about anything - even if they don't come to you with religious badges, a sinister-minded person would still do sinister things.

reindeer:
I think theres a strong case for rationality but its going to be difficult convincing those whose minds have been encoded over millenia with religious doctrine to come to terms with the fact that religion has served humanity badly(and is still a major cause of world conflicts).

Sorry to say, but this is one of the most hilarious bullcraps being endlessly recycled for the delight of simpletons. Not putting you on spotlight, but even if you had to be as honest as you can afford to be, have you taken a very unbiased look at your assumptions?

@mazaje,

mazaje:
I said one of the countires with the the highest mortality rate, i never said it has the highest mortality rate. . . . the bottom line is that people pray for good health in nigeria and the positive result is yet to be seen. . .

I asked a simple question, my dear friend. Should I remind you what it is:

[list]Infant mortality and prayer - please can you establish the point of reference as a philosphical and scientific methodology of measuring such demography for any nation?[/list]

mazaje:
The never believe in prayer and its powers.

Which was a reminder that your indices or point of reference still do not establish your argument.

mazaje:
. . . .You think so . . . angelina jolie, warren buffet. . .  bill gates. . . . richard browson are all athiest that do alot of GOOD to poor people. . . .  how is my referance unfortuanate?

For the same reason in my reply to huxley's that this does not prove theists are not philanthropists. Again, what is the point of reference?

mazaje:
nigeria is the most prayerful nation on earth that i know. . . . .  hence the reference. . . . . .

That is because you have not done a proper study to establish your connection. Please refer again to my simple question and delight me with the philosophical and scientific connection between "prayer and infant mortality of any nation" as the tools of measuring demography of any sort.

huxley:
Some of the most recent studies of intercesory prayers have shown them not to have the desired effects. In fact, they have tended to have the negative effect;

Which is quite a sad "study" - because they would have to explain how I've seen positive results in prayers.

huxley:
The world's most generous philanthropist have been atheists,

And no theist has been a philanthropist, No?

This is the amazing thing about engaging people who are projecting that atheistic worldview with untennable points of reference. Intelligent and reasoned discourses go beyond mere statistics, because at the end of the day we are still left asking: what exactly is the real question?

So far, when I try to reason with non-theists, the picture I get from their argument is that theism is irrational while atheism is more rational. My answer: by observation even on this forum most rationalists have been the most unreasonable people. A case in point, huxley: I have tried to go through most of your threads just to sample how people interacted with you. To my amazement, in one particular thread that you raised for none believers, stimulus respected your desire to reserve that thread for nonbelievers. But what has been your attitude to Christian threads? Assuming I was not even a believer, would I take that type of attitude as rational at all?

Secondly, if the question was asked again, other atheists try to project the idea that religion has never done any good, while atheism is the better alternative. Sad inference - because such people have never had the rational at all to make simple empirical observations. If one even goes so far to state that most people who have murdered religious folks are themselves atheistic, then irrational outcries are heard again from the same people.

What really is the question at the end of the day?

So far the references I have read are simply too immature to be inceptive. I mean, what really has infant mortality of a country got to do with prayer? Or how does a subjective "study" establish that in every case, prayer has never produced results? Or yet, how does one empirically deduce that atheism is synonymous with philanthropy? And one wonders at what exactly is the gist of atheism.

@huxley, I am yet to see a "rational" excuse from what is presented. I'm sorry to observe that the real questions are not even dealt with at all.

Just keep shouting . . .

doesn't change Scripture -

God is Abba. .

which means "FATHER"


Do you know Him?

@Pataki,

Dear bros, God give you more wisdom . . . and thank you for raising the point that afforded me the elaboration. Bessings aplenty.

@justcool,

I have enjoyed such a heart-warming discussion with you. Let's do this often and keep the amicable atmosphere. God bless you daily.

No worries. Enjoy.

She's in hospital - the original post said so.

olabowale:
When will the christians, indeed the disbelievers stop their cronic lies?

It is really a miracle that you are worried about other people's "chronic lies" and yet be unable to detect your own!

mazaje:
they are the only ones who use god when decieveing people most of the time. . . . .

And how have other deceivers who do not reference "god" done their own jobs of deceit?

@mazaje,

mazaje:
I don't believe that prayer works. . .

That doesn't mean it doesn't work. Your argument is untenable because you're looking at Nigeria and making claims from subjective point of reference, which is not the same thing as an established and concrete statement.

mazaje:
i have seen people pray for good health in nigeria but nigeria still has one of the highest infant and maternal mortalities in the world

I don't think it is wise to be so polarized as such. One cannot blame the results of prayer on indices of infant mortality - and if at all you want to hold that line of argument, you seem not to have carefully checked your facts, mazaje. A reminder:

Countries such as Sierra Leone and Angola are not as "prayerful" as you may assume for the case of Nigeria; but established sources put their infant mortality rate at far higher than that of Nigeria . . . please see the following quick references:

http://www.aneki.com/mortality.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate_(2005)

Besides, what strikes me is that people who sound as polarized as you do often want to blame every single problem you can fathom on the wrong indices. Infant mortality and prayer - please can you establish the point of reference as a philosphical and scientific methodology of measuring such demography for any nation?

mazaje:
most of the people in finnland and in europe do not pray but have better health than nigerians. . .

Most Asians do not pray and yet suffer far more than you deplore the case for Nigeria.

mazaje:
i have seen so many people pray for money in nigeria. . . most of the european athiests have far more disposable income than the very prayerful nigerians.

Most atheists with all their wealth disposed have not been able to help the situation of suffering people - a most remarkable thing nobody talks about. While Christians will endeavour to reach difficult places with helpful resources, most of the atheists I know will simply curse away and do absolutely nothing in such instances. Atheism is not to be mistaken as the best alternative for wealth - I know a lot of very wealthy Christians who do not go about bragging about their wealth. Whether or not one is a theist or atheist, you point of reference is quite unfortunate - you place "money" as a reference index for prayer, and that is simply failure to make an effort to understand what prayer is really about.

Are you desperately in need of being noticed?

mazaje:
Preachers are the only people that claim they are from god. . . . . .

Preachers are not the only ones who rape people.

@Chrisbenogor,

Chrisbenogor:
@pilgrim
I just read up "oral tradition" turns out we have been using the wrong term.

I read through your explanation and thought perhaps we're on the same wavelength. I might be wrong or mistaken, but I appreciate the point you were trying to highlight about oral tradition weakening an event rather than strengthening it.

Indeed, it does happen. The only thing that has come to our attention though is that every form of communication - no matter the medium of expression - has its perculiar problem. Even when you think of the noted literary works of leading thinkers, scientists, politicians, historians. . . there are many instances where readers have been made the victims of the authors biases. A case in point is the situation where historians and educators have attempted re-writing certain aspects of American history and endorsed such books as required reading in schools! We all know that in one way or the other, nearly every field of enquiry has suffered the same worrisome situation.

The question now would be this: what then do we do from there? Oral tradition may have its multiplied problems, but that should not make us lose the whole gist of the event itself.

Chrisbenogor:
Waiting for you to weigh in on the contraception and church tradition thing.

There are as many church traditions as there are traditions in every other enquiry and worldview. I've grown to respect people's traditions as they cherish them and tread carefully when entering into queries about them. But briefly, we may all have issues on all sides that we may agree and otherwise disagree with; but it is not my place to say that my own church traditions or interpretations are better than any other group's.

What I can say or do is discuss issues and seek to understand why some people hold certain traditions. I may not agree with them at the end of the day, but I'm sure we all would have learnt a few things to take home with us.

On the issue of contraception viz-a-viz the conscience of a church tradition, it all depends on each definitive case. The field of contraception is so broad that it seems immature for us (or for me) to throw its concerns completely out. I would rather first listen to the real issues before coming to any substantial conclusions.

Cheers.

Anybody can make just about any claim - it doesn't have to be preachers. There are fraudsters in every walk of life, and to be polarized against a certain group of people doesn't substantiate your "evidentiary" grievances.