₦airaland Forum

Dear ismailys,

How bodi? I hope you're enjoying the evening breeze.

ismailys:
@pilgrim, Daw

[table]this is your idea of "genealogy"? Where did allah say this in his quran or as usual u have gone to dredge up more spurious piffle to decieve yourself yet the more?
Adnan is known as a "descendant of ishmeal" - and so can the arab in Egypt make the same claim . . . please trace the genealogy from Muhammad down to ishmeal as accurately as the bible does for Jesus Christ and Methuselah! [/table]

You can see that the highlighted quote above is not mine, even though you attributed it to me. For now, I'll just chill out so you can digest Dāwīḏ's reply - then, perhaps, just perhaps, I may come back and share a few things with you when you're in a calmer mood. Fair enough?

God bless.

@Dāwīḏ,

You must have read my mind - I was hoping that you would help settle ismailys's troubled heart before I log in! Obviously, we all mistake people on the Forum; but his own na classic!

dafidixone:
Thanks and God bless. Watchout for the next questions you might be the winner.

Again I congratulate the winner of the January 2008 quiz!! Good one. . . a high score!! Enjoy!

Also, many huge thanks to all who sent in their entries! Wow! In many ways than you could ever realize, you made it worthwhile - and that is why the Quiz goes to the next level with greater promises! Whet your appetites. . . it will be worth your while!

olabowale:
@Luvus: Read the Introduction to the Science of Qur'an, by Jamal Garabbozo. Read the History of the the Kalifahs: Abu Bakr, Umar Khattab and Uthman Affan.

How do the above recommendations help excuse the versions of the Qur'an?

Amen, bros. . . amen! And your blessings ever be full in Jesus' Name!!

@samsonola,

samsonola:
The above is quite interesting and instead of  u christisns presenting a knoeledgable argument ,u keep diverting and acting as if u did not see this,

If you want to discuss it, please do. Trying to be apologetic for what you can't deal with is not the way to enter a discussion. People have presented "knowledgeable argument" on your query - what have you or olabowale presented that can be termed "knowledgeable"?

Do you care to share something about the topic of the thread that is remotely close to "knowledge"?

olabowale:
You took the word right out of my mouth. All of you are naively funny. Was Jesus just standing idly doing nothing seeing his earthly Parents, Adanm and Even being suckered in to sin by ordinary Satan?

Are you not being so naive yourself, olabowale? 

You refer to Satan as "ordinary", but Muhammad must have been such a tool in his hands to have been so scared every time he sought "refuge" from shaitan. If Satan was "ordinary", why would Muhammad have to wait for Jesus Christ to come back and fight the antichrist for him? You're simply being mischievous beyond belief!


@topic,

Perhaps there's something that not many people have considered here. If "forgiveness" was all that was required, then there would be nothing unique in Christianity. WHY? Because as far as I'm aware, every religion on the face on the earth ALSO preach "forgiveness". In which case, Islam would have lost its argument before the first adhan was called out by the muezzin from a minaret!

Beyond asking for forgivess, God desires to bless people with something entirely far above a religious attainment by man - He seeks to give man the gift of eternal life in Jesus Christ! Certainly, we need forgiveness from God - but that's not where it stops: beyond the forgiveness, one needs to deal with the question of sin as it affects the entire human race! Until that question is settled, the prospect of eternal life will continue to be a far-fetched exercise to seekers of merely forgiveness!

@dafidixone,

dafidixone:
I hope this will put the case at rest except

Rem Olabowale!

Lol, it actually doesn't put the case to rest - I consider all the questions quite legitimate, and I do hope to sit down and carefully point out where the "confusion" lies in each case, as well as show the chronology of events on that morning.

One thing the poster should realize is that there are clearly different phases of times and people in each epoch that are mentioned by the four Evangelists. One example has been given already - there is a clear difference between MARY (one person) and the WOMEN (several persons) - but we should not forget that they arrived at the sepulchre at different times [(a) "rising of the sun" and (b) "when it was yet dark". The same thing to observe in the epochs/times and sets/groups of people mentioned in each case - it is a sequence of events, and not a static position like a stilled clip of a movie!

I'd like to look at each case carefully when I have the time to devote to that study.

Shalom.

olabowale:
You are so naive. Qur'an is in Pure Arabic. That is stated in Surah Yusuf. Go and read it and get educated.

Oga, which one is "pure" Arabic again between all the "Warsh, Qalun, al-Duri, Hisham, Hafs" Qurans, etc?     And which one is "pure Arabic" as distinct from Muhammad's dialect (of the Quraish tribe)? Just because the editors of the Qur'an tell you that it is "pure Arabic" does not bring you any closer to your being educated on the issue.

olabowale:
I w2ill immediately ask you to go and find me a Greek language Bible, that was in Circulation before KJV ever commissioned.

Your request will be obliged as soon as Muslims stop deceiving themselves and produce 'Allah's' lost Torah and Injil.

Lol. . . I didn't see it was posted twice. My comments already in the other one, here: (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-108979.0.html#msg1899017)

@olabowale,

olabowale:
@+Osisi The Spirit of God aka Holy Spirit is an instrument of God, like 'the resident abunna' of the woman. (I have to shock you to reality, +Osisi!) Afterall, it the instrument that the woman can use at will! Or a more direct example, the staff of Moses. See the staff is not Moses but a tool that acts according to commands! Get real girl. And don't tell me that I should let my better halves come to Nairaland. They know about you already.

A friendly advice: be carefull as to what you connote by reference to the Holy Spirit. Even if you don't believe in Him as revealed in the Bible, I'm sure that God-fearing Muslims would not go out of their way to make such caricature of the one they interpret as the holy spirit in Islam!

Either way, whether Judiasm, Christianity or Islam, whoever is being referred to as the Holy Spirit deserves respect. You're welcome to be my guest and throw caution to wind when you use such derogatory inferences for Him.

olabowale:
The people of da book should learn a thing or two about Mark 12 Verse 29, first before coming to the Mumiin.

Muslims should go and find out what Mark 12 v 39 was pointing to in quoting Deuteronomy 6 v 4 (Elohim and "echad" before seeking to pass on their illiterate comments for scholarship that they clearly do not possess!

olabowale:
Afterall, Qur'an already abrogated the book of the people of da book.

Hehehe. . . what a laugh! Keep lying for 'Allah' - I'm sure one day he will have to ask you to account for your mendacity as to where he ever told you such a thing. 'Allah' can abrogate the whole of his Qur'an for all I care - Muslims cannot tell you how many verses of 'Allah's' Qur'an are still remaining as "unabrogated". The day you find out, please let us know!

olabowale:
And the Baby should be named Muhammad or Ahmad if a boy or twins.

Hmm, no comments! _{When a teddy bear was named "Muhammad" after a schoolboy, the perpetually restless Muslims sought the head of the school-teacher!}

Amen O! May God be glorified in all things!


_{PS. As soon as I log out from the Forum, I'll contact you by email. Need to get the details of "that thing" to send as promised!}

God bless.

Hallo @Alphazee,

Alphazee:
CONFUSED !!!
I got this material while trying to answer the January 2008 Biblical Quiz.

Lol, glad to know that you had attempted the Quiz as well. Interesting, wasn't it? Be encouraged to send in your entries in time for the next one - who knows, you might be the lucky winner to either bless yourself or someone else!

Alphazee:
I became confused. Please can any one help?

Aww. . . it happenz. But no need to be consfused, really. The one thing you should understand is that, on the surface, they are bound to very quickly rattle your nerves - unless you try and challenge yourself to study the texts and events for yourself and the light will illuminate your heart.

I especially enjoy such confusion contests . . because they challenge me to go back and study the Bible! The more I take up the challenge, the more I see the wisdom of Scripture - and often times, it removes us from entertaining spurious and frivolous "questions", because often times the enquirers are not seeking honest answers.

It may take anyone several entries to clarify all the points raised - but I often love to say to some people who email me: "You may find 50 million contradictions in the Bible if you dare to - afterall, it's a collection of only 66 books! But the love of God in my life cannot be contradicted by any man's confusion!"

Anyhow, let me give you an example of how the seeming "contradictions" all fit perfectly when you carefully follow the events of that resurrection morning.

#1.

Alphazee:
Story of The Resurrection
A. At what time in the morning did the women visit the tomb?- At the rising of the sun (Mark 16:2) vs. when it was yet dark (John 20:1)

Hint: could it be possible that there is a difference between the sets of people who came at "rising of the sun" and those who arrived while it was "yet dark"?

Look at the texts again:

Mark 16:2
And very early in the morning the first day of the week,
they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

John 20:1
The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early,
when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone
taken away from the sepulchre.


~ John 20:1 - while it was "yet dark", it was MARY
~ Mark 16:2 - at the "rising of the sun", there were several women (they)

These are small issues that many people miss out and then assume to read into the text what it didn't say! Look again at the part in that quote precisely as they stated it:

[list]#1.

Alphazee:
Story of The Resurrection
A. At what time in the morning did the women visit the tomb?- At the rising of the sun (Mark 16:2) vs. when it was yet dark (John 20:1)

[/list]

By confusing the whole picture, they make it seem as if Mark 16:2 and John 20:1 were both speaking of WOMEN at the same instance! Nope, rather we see that:

~ when MARY went to the sepulchre, it was "yet dark"
~ but when the women got to the sepulchre, it the sun was beginning to rise!

Read the text carefully, and you see that the small things we often take for granted are the very things that people will use to rattle your nerve. I could point out the same mishap in the rest of the quotes; but I hope you get the gist?

All in all, may God bless you in your faith in His blessed Son, Jesus Christ. He truly loves you.

@dafidixone,

Bo, well done o jare! I congratulate you well-well!

_{Haba! My internet connection nearly gee me hypertension yesterday. . . until I had to go seek another ISP! But as you said, the devil is a liar - and thank God you got my mail just in time! Bless God!!}

Huge thanks again to all who sent in entries - please keep sending them, for your helping in small ways to reach out to many others in circumstances you never dreamed off! One day, details will be shared with you all - and you will never lose your reward!

Congratulations to the winner of the January 2008 quiz! We go wash am O!

Cheers all, and God bless.

@olabowale,

Lol. . . I guess you will come back and deny that you posted this one - as you claimed you were not the poster of the entry that bears your username in the other thread?

olabowale:
I want you to fall and bruise your face, in your answer

Christians will not fall at your desire; and the Bible very well describes dishonest and restless fellows as yourself:

#1.  olabowale, your own net will catch you:

Psalm 35:8 -
Let destruction come upon him at unawares;
and let his net that he hath hid catch himself:
into that very destruction let him fall.


#2. olabowale, your sleep is disturbed until you cause mischief:

Proverbs 4:16 -
For they sleep not, except they have done mischief;
and their sleep is taken away, unless they cause some
to fall.


#3. olabowale, you'll fall into the pit you dig for others:

Proverbs 26:27 -
Whoso diggeth a pit shall fall therein:
and he that rolleth a stone, it will return upon him.

This malicious Muslim attitude that has become second nature to you and your ummah is the reason why I stopped entertaining the pretended questions you and people like babs787 often parade on Nairaland with such callous duplicity.

If you and other Muslims are interested in genuine discussions, you will not be seeking such retard games. The pride of your heart will follow you all your days until you call out to Jesus.

ismailys:
@ Dāwīḏ
i wonder what you ned Muhammad's geneaology for ,
i'm sure you already have many holes to pick from his geneaolgy
anyway, happy viewing or is it reading

Christians don't have the time to waste trying to pick "holes" in Muhammad's or anyone's genealogy. The problem has been that Muslims are so embarrassed and restless because they have no genealogy from 'Allah' about Muhammad's genealogy. Consequently, they would understandably show their restlessness by trying to pick holes in the genealogies in the Bible. Are you happier now?

ismailys:
Family tree of Muhammad
Muhammad traced his genealogy as follows :

Muhammad was born into the Quraysh tribe.
He was the son of Abd Allah,
son of Abd al-Muttalib (Shaiba)
son of Hashim (Amr)
son of Abd Manaf (al-Mughira)
son of Qusai (Zaid)
son of Kilab
son of Murra
son of Ka'b
son of Lu'ay
son of Ghalib ibn Fahr (Quraysh)
son of Malik
son of an-Nadr (Qais)
son of Kinana
son of Khuzaimah
son of Mudrikah (Amir)
son of Ilyas
son of Mudar
son of Nizar
son of Ma'ad
son of Adnan, whom the northern Arabs believe to be their common ancestor.
Adnan in turn is said to have been a descendant of Ishmael, son of Abraham.

Nice try - but where in the Qur'an can we read this for ourselves and confirm that you have not reposted someone else's manipulation?

ismailys:
now that you know what are you going to do with it.

Perhaps, let's start by you addressing the question just above. Remember, this is the question that is being asked:

[quote author=Dāwīḏ link=topic=106630.msg1896555#msg1896555 date=1201544851]where is his genealogy is all we ask.[/quote]If Muhammad's genealogy is not in your Qur'an, are you somewhat peeved that the Bible clearly has the genealogies of specific people - traced up to Jesus Christ - while the Qur'an is so silent about that?

@+osisi,

Just no mind the guy. If he thinks his Muslim games he has played in the past is what is going to impress anybody here, then a big shame!

Hi again @mdsocks,

mdsocks:
Pilgrim,

Since all these different versions of Bibles on the earth today do not agree with each other.

The Catholic Bible (based on the Latin Vulgate of the fourth century) has 73 books, while the Protestant Bible (one thousand years later) only has 66 books. Which one? The new one (66 books)? Or the old one (73 books)?

Thats what we call versions and not mere singular and plural Differences that don't change anything.

If you can point out a version which have one or more sura then we can talk or discuss better.

I don't know how this happened; but I'm assuming that this is the same thing offered by "olabowale" earlier? I've also addressed the same here: (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-107465.128.html#msg1895381).

Regards.

@babs787,

babs787:
@pilgrim.1

Is this simple question too hard for you to understand? Did he die on the cross, I want to serve you fresh facts from what we have been discussed so far.

So did he die on the cross?

I'm not impressed by your penchant to recycle topics - Muslims often do that when they have nothing fresh to plagiarize and dress up as their own.

babs787:
@pilgrim.1

Answer my simple question

babs787:
@pilgrim.1

Answer my simple question

This is how you duck questions and issues raised by others: "answer my simple question" - and in another thread, you were whining about this very attitude, not so?

Go back and read through my posts where I raised issues for your consideration. If you can't address them, I won't entertain this dishonest attitude you often employ to cover your shame.

@babs787,

babs787:
@pilgrim.1

I anticipated it. You will always ignore question that seems too hard for you on the pretext that one answer yours first before you will answer another person's.

Rubbish! You have been playing that game of "answer my question" when you discuss with others - so don't wet your diapers here complaining about your own mischievous art.

babs787:
If I may ask you, can you bring me threads where I have been asking you to do same before I would answer you?

What have you been doing in THIS thread?

@babs787,

babs787:
@pilgrim.1

I have learnt that you quickly revert to the idea of someone not giving you intelligent question when you have no answers.

That must be a new discovery for you then; because there is no instance where I have not offered answers to meaningful questions.

When you stop denying obvious statements and intelligently present your views, you will read answers from me as well - that is why your excuses hardly sound intelligent at all.

babs787:
If you care to read, read post 4026 of yours and when done, let me know if your bible has abrogation or not.

Assuming that this is my post #4026, it still does not change what I have posted there. If you can no longer understand English, please don't be ashamed to seek an upgrade.

babs787:
I have been asking you a very straight forward question which is:

Has the holy spirit been in existence since creation or not?

And I have offered you clear answers to that endlessly repeated (albeit lunk) question. You have never as yet offered anything intelligent about John 14:26 - and denying that verse is not the same thing as discussing intelligently.

@babs787,

babs787:
@pilgrim.1

You should read this thread from the beginning before accusing me of dodging your question .

I have carefully followed the discussion up until your last entry above (#95). I entered the discussion in other to offer my persuasions and wonder why you should suddenly have concerned yourself only with my entries besides others that have shared their views.

If you seek to engage me in any discussion, try not "demanding" that I answer your question. I have done so several times and never seen you address my questions - which was why I stopped entertaining your attitude of "demanding" answers from others when you have never sought to discuss with them. And for that reason, I decied to specifically take you and olabowale to single neat threads and face specific issues - if for any other thing, just to show how you and olabowale never seriously seek to discuss any issue.

babs787:
The topic is on trinity and my question has been in line with the thread.

When we talk about the Trinity, we have always made it clear that it involves God being known as FATHER. Is that not in line with the thread as well?

babs787:
You have been deceiving people with this hallucination of John that 'in the beginning was the word and the word was withg God, and the word was God.

I never deceived anyone - otherwise they would have complained here or by email. Meanwhile, I am not the one who wrote John 1 v 1 - so why hypocritically try to assume that allegation against me?

babs787:
You should be able to defend all you have been saying all these days.

I have done that quite nicely, thank you. Otherwise, there are far more intelligent readers who would have complained and also pointed out where I have not defended them. Just because i stopped entertaining your mendacity does not mean that your allegations are true or make sense at all.

babs787:
Tell me the Greek word for God in that particular verse or you don't have where you can cull it from again?

When you learn to address the issues I offered you, then I can attend to your request (if you learn not to "demand" anything from others).

@babs787,

babs787:
@pilgrim.1

Are there no abrogation in the bible?

Do you ever have anything fresh to discuss, babs787? Nevermind that you're struggling with English language and always embarrassing your scholarship in public, but have we not been through this shameless and callous idea of yours before?

WHERE in the Bible did God say He abrogated any verse? Please quote the verse directly and desist from trying to force the idea into the Bible where it does not exist.

'Allah' can abrogate his Qur'an for all I care - and there are verses which he has said so by his own mouth (which you have quoted several times). Muslims are not so sure how many verses in the Qur'an are remaining unabrogated.

But just be honest and quote any verse in the Bible where God said He made any one of His prophet to "forget", "substitute" or "abrogate" any verse. Just please find me that verse and quote it where any such words were stated by God in the Bible.

babs787:
@David & Pilgrim.1

Do I need to trade words with you Pilgrim.1 considering upbringinness, your lack of respect etc?

Please don't even try to amuse me with this silly "lack of respect" thing again. When you shamelessly tell lies in public and are queried on them, you often have used that illiterate remark to cover your failures. The same thing was often being employed as a deflective motif by olabowale - until he saw what his adventures could do to him.

I am not here to trade words with anyone; but you can do us all the favour of being honest, at leas, if you still fail everywhere else. If you can't afford that, no problem if you want to start all over again to insult my parents.

babs787:
Lastly, is angel different from holy spirit because I will serve you verses on annunciation where a spirit told Mary about Jesus and another verse mentioning angel!

We all know the difference between "an angel" and "the Holy Spirit". The one question that I have been asking you is to find me where 'Allah' ever referred to Muhammad as either of them! All we have read are endless excuses for your denials - and if you do not mind much, can you please save all those excuses?

Cheers.

@olabowale,

olabowale:
@Dawid and +Osisi: You're intentionally being dishonest now.

I can see. If you care to be honest in just one line, please honestly show us where Allah ever told you that "The Qur'an has abrogated Bible". That was your own "DIShonest" statement, and we are waiting to see how you set us straight on that.

@babs787,

There's no one who's afraid of anything except your display of confused reasoning. Exodus and John are not the same thing - and that's why I took my time to raise a few issues with you. Seeing that you enjoy being such a mendacious personality, I have sinced refused to entertain your gimmicks, until you can demonstrate two things:

(a) that you seek an honest discussion (nevermind that you don't have the scholarship for it)

(b) you're willing to follow the discussion (which is why you should not be making false claims you cannot defend - such as assuming that Moses spoke Greek, and up until now you haven't defended that idea).

If you are not going to demonstrate a clear and consistent position, it is not my style to argue illiterate assumptions such as Moses speaking Greek. I raised a few issues for your concerns (if you care) - such as God being known as FATHER; and you have tersely ducked that issue again and again.

When you begin to address issues, you will find answers from me. If you just want to keep buying time and ducking those issues, nothing new there - we know Muhammad never sought to answer questions anyway and needed to duck the simple questions offered him for 15 days!

[quote author=Dāwīḏ link=topic=106630.msg1896695#msg1896695 date=1201547787]you decietful man . . . there is a difference between genealogy and conception.[/quote]Lol. . . some people truly need an upgrade in their English reading skills. Abeg Dāwīḏ, help us tell am well-well!

olabowale:
The Qur'an has abrogated Bible (Tourat, Sabuur and Injiil)!

<<loooong hiiss!>>

Why do you guys never bear the simplicity of what will save your souls? Why trying to deceive yourself here?

Okay, just one kweshun: WHERE did Allah tell you that "The Qur'an has abrogated Bible"??

Take style bear some shame - it cost nothing to be honest.

@babs787,

You did not confuse yourself when you referred to Muhammad as the Holy Spirit in John's Gospel, abi?

You really have no shame.

@babs787,

Please present something fresh and stop dancing on one leg. This issue has been discussed and tharshed with several times in several threads with all your denials whitewashed. If there's nothing else you can present because you no longer have materials to plagiarize, then take a break and stop wasting your internet resources.

@babs787,

babs787:
@pilgrim.1

You understood me perfectly.
You may kindly supply me the Greek word for 'God' and 'god' in the two verses.

Lol. . . you didn't make yourself clear - and my question was direct. If you're not intersted in what I raised and discussed previously, what are the excuses all about? Trying to buy more time?

@babs787,

How body?

babs787:
@pilgrim.1

If you still do not want to admit that the verse was not referring to Holy Spirit,

Please babs, please. There are no excuses you can project to keep denying the obvious. Just simply say you are too embarrassed to admit the simplicity of clear statements recorded in the Bible. QED.

It is not up to me to "admit" your denial - because I cannot begin in this age to start "admitting" the denial that Muslims keep making about the fact that the Comforter was referring to the Holy Spirit and to none else. That is why we have it clear in John 14:26 - "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

No one can confuse the clear meaning of the clause "the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost". As long as you keep making excuses to see the obvious, you have not made any sense. When you do, I'll be interested in anything further you have to say. For now, save the excuses and denials and let's move on to better things.

Shalom.