₦airaland Forum

@olabowale,

May I address and engage you directly on this one? Amicably. . . I promise.

olabowale:
I am wondering how TRINITY fits into Deut. 6 Verse 4 and then surprisingly, Mark 12 Verse 29?

Infact, I am glad that you finally asked it this way, even though you had derisively hinted at the same thing several times. Nonethless, this is just one simple request I ask of you:

Try and study the Hebrew word for "one" in that verse (Deuteronomy 6:4).

Hint: the Hebrew word is "אחד" ('echâd), and when you begin to study that word, perhaps you will finally come to see what that verse teaches.

It is just like someone trying to arrive at the meaning of a verse in the Qur'an purely from the English translation. We all know that they would never arrive at a clear contextual meaning of the verse until they consult the Arabic language in which the scripts are penned.

The same thing when arguing merely from the English translations of the Bible. Until one takes the time to study the Hebrew words in their contexts and applications, one is bound to still argue away from the true meaning of any verse of the OT - just as I believe is what you have been doing all along.

I know as a Muslim, I rejected the idea of the Trinity; and the only reason why I did so was because the Qur'an rejected the Bible . . . until I had to swallow my pride and bow to the truth of the Biblical revelation that God has given of Himself.

Let me leave it there for now.

Cheers.

@jintujinta,

jintujinta:
Hmmmm, have you also noticed this appendage in people's names: "JP" meaning Jerusalem pilgrim.

Erudite observation.

jintujinta:
I wonder where it is written in the bible that you must go to Jerusalem to be holy.

Even after the Lord Jesus has clarified that "neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem" (John 4:21), dem no go hear!

jintujinta:
Now they want the appendage just like you call the visitors to Mecca "Alhaji" can you imagine that?

I can well imagine. . . afterall, if one visualizes wetin the title of "Alhaji" dey do for body, we go understand!

jintujinta:
If you don't put it, they will quarrel with you o. _(Hisses) Shhhhhhhhh, arrant nonsense!

I feel you! Some people sef don get scars for the crime of not attaching the appendage when they addressed the owners!

jintujinta:
NB
Pilgrim 1, sorry tell us o, Pilgrim of where are u o? Are you also a Jerusalem pilgrim?

Look this guy. . . no let me dash you multiple scars O!

Lol. . . I chose the userID "pilgrim" from Heb. 11:13 and 1 Pet. 2:11.

@JeSoul,

JeSoul:
Pilgrim1,
oh girl you took the words right out of my mouth,

I kow. . . galfriends think alike in most cases.

JeSoul:
and those words are so well said they need to be repeated and I highlight the very on point points u make.

No mind me. . . I just lazy this afternoon. Enjoy!

@kingsikaz,

How bodi, bros?

kingsikaz:
u guys need 2 learn more. philgrim1 , i greet u o. one of these days i'm going to trash- you- out, get ready.

That's the third time today alone that people have said that to me! Wetin I do una?

Anyhow, I dey under cover for now. . . till then.

kingsikaz:
TRINITY obeys d principle of RADIATION OF D SUN.

I'm not quite sure that is how to word it. I'd rather say that all things are subject to (and thus obey) the Trinity.

Cheers.

[quote author=D-reloaded link=topic=108212.msg1887326#msg1887326 date=1201272442]I don't get it.[/quote]I feel you. Likewise, I never did "get it" when I was a Muslim - about Muslim tattoos! Besides, my perplexity was all the more heightened by the fact that Fatimah was attributed (?) with what has come to be known as "Hand of Fatima Tattoo Design" (see image here).

However, it cannot be denied that many Muslims are known to enjoy tattooing:

"That said, in many Arabic areas that are devoutly Muslim,
tattooing is quite common" . . . >>> read more

Cheers.

Lol. . . @cybersleek,

Cool temper small naw. . . Haba! How you jus dey shakara for my girlfriend, eh?

Lol. . . let's share a few things with you. . . amicably:

cybersleek:
Read my post very well, when you talk about marriage, did God marry Adam to Eve?

Well, I don't know bout others; but as for me, I believe that God married them both:

[list] Genesis 2:22-24

And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man,
made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and
flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because
she was taken out of Man.

Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother,
and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.[/list]

God "brought" Eve to Adam - and I see that as directly hinting on the marriage between the man and his wife. What would the word "wife" be doing in that verse (v. 24) if there was not already a marriage in view in that account?

cybersleek:
When you say" it is a gift" do you mean like the holy spirit or the gift of repentance or salvation?

I also believe that sex is a "gift" from God enjoyed by man and animals; but it is not to be understood in the context of other "gifts" such as repentance, salvation, faith or the Holy Spirit.

cybersleek:
Go and read the scriptures well and you will find out that marriage as we know it today, and as you are trying to interprete it is different from what you have in mind.

A lot of us have our ideas about marriage; but there are so many ideas about "marriage" that are simply not Biblical. When I was on holiday in Sweden, my host introduced me to a "couple" with the idea that they were connected! Since I didn't understand what "connected" meant, I later asked for clarification - and was kindly informed that it was a Swenglish slang for "marriage". Although the marriage in quote was specifically defined by another term - living in "sambo", I was not the wiser about the whole affair!

cybersleek:
True, sex in marriage is the only one approved of by God for obvious reasons, search the bible properly and tell me how many places in the bible where they mention a man and a woman coming together in marriage and making love being the "gift" in the sense that you have used it, and i will show you that you are only arguing based on what others have told you and not what you have read yourself.

I don't think she was arguing based on hearsays from others.

True, the Bible honestly gives the account of many people who had sex outside marriage - but you need to go find out if that state of affairs is what God approved ANYWHERE.

cybersleek:
I am not claiming to be an authority in biblical matters, but i can see you have already started using phrases like "stretching the truth" , this are hallmarks of zealousness without due dilligence, sex occurs without marriage in quote, but does marriage occur without sex?

Believe it or not - I know of a couple (just one) that are said to have lived all their lives in marriage without having sex. Please don't ask me for the details - I wasn't there for statistical and empirical verification! But no one doubted that the wife was actually a virgin when examined at death! <Cough-cough> BTW, this couple were not Christians or Jews (they had a religious belief of sorts, and for the life of me, I still can't make out what exactly their religion was ).

Queer world, you may say. But as my head was spinning about this whole affair, my friend asked me if I could have a shot at interpreting Luke 2:36 >>

And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel,
of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age,
and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity.

Ma broder, try as hard as I may, I really can't say exactly with any measure of authority that the verse was saying Anna did not have sex all the time she lived with her husband! Again, please don't send me emails about any statistical or empirical analysis. . . or I go jus vex scatter for your head!!

cybersleek:
you answer the question yourself and see which one answers the question. I rest my case.

No O! You beta come back and share more on this very issue! Remember what you said earlier? We are here to hear "a lot of things" that are not taught in the church!

Enjoy o jare!

cybersleek:
Try to read the bible without dogma or bias, then you will learn a lot of things you will never hear in church therein.

Abi O, ma broder! One hears "a lot of things" these days, it's amazing that we are alive to hear more sef! Example? This thread O!

Lo. . . out of curiousity I clicked here to find out, but. . .?!

dafidixone:
GODISNOWHERE

Perhaps you wanted us to "decode", abi?

GODISNOWHERE

GOD - IS - NOW - HERE

Next!

Wow, @d_oracle!

That was quite sumtin! By the way, what author and book were you hiniting at?

Meanwhile, this really ought to catch the attention of the reader:

[quote author=d_oracle link=topic=108058.msg1885785#msg1885785 date=1201245394]Then comes a man who practically breaks all the laws they were used to. Laws handed over to them by the great prophet of God, Moses. Eating with sinners, hanging out with prostitutes, breaking the sabbath laws, proclaiming Himself as the Son of God without a proof from Heaven, considered blasphemy, e.t.c.
Now come to think of it, if u were there, would u accept this man?[/quote]Even now sef. . . it is hard for me to say I would have acknowledged His claims unquestionably - that is, if I were living in the days of His earthly ministry. Perhaps, the fact that His claims were attested both by incontrovertible miracles as well as His righteous life would no doubt have drawn my heart towards Him. But I would assume that would be another miracle in itself - the miracle of being blessed with divine revelation which the FATHER alone gives (cf. Matthew 16:17).

Looking back from the present though, I would say we are a privileged generation who are enjoying two miracles:

~ (a) we have the blessing of now enjoying the the fullness of God's revelation:

How wonderful to read His words again:

Matthew 13:16 & 17

But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men
have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them;
and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

Luke 24:45
Then opened he their understanding, that
they might understand the scriptures,

- - - - - -

~ (b) we have the blessing of now understanding that He did not break the LAW:

I've shared on this before (John 5 - Did the Lord break the Law?);
but even so, we know none of the Jews could actually establish
a single charge of "sin" against Him (John 8:46).


The question is: having been so privileged today with these blessings, what should be our response to His love and grace in seeking to reach out to us?

Shalom.

@cybersleek,

How bodi?

cybersleek:
Even in christianity, the idea of sex between a man and a woman is meant to represent the unison between God and man, two becoming one indivisible.

Em. . . how did you arrive at that?

Dear ismailys,

Please carefully make the research yourself into these matters you're projecting. I know it sounds "scientific" - but before I left Islam, it dawned on me that many of the things which Muslim scholars regard as the "scientific miracles" of the Qur'an are simply deliberately sculpted to make it feel that way.

You will do yourself a huge favour to not propagate these ideas as factual, because in most cases, they are NOT!! If you care, the evidence from within the Qur'an itself will be presented for your consideration. An example:

ismailys:
"Day (yawm)" is repeated 365 (exactly the number of DAYS that make up a YEAR) times in singular form, while its plural and dual forms "days (ayyam and yawmayn)" together are repeated 30 times.

That is not true - UNLESS you are reading ANOTHER Qur'an!!

Let me first ask you to go find out how many days there are in a month of the Muslim calendar. When you work it out, you will find that whoever is telling you the above has simply cheated you - free of charge!

The weekend is almost here and I may be quite busy in the next couple of days. . . but I'll be glad to share how your ideas are untennable if you care. Fair enough?



_{Hehe. . . this is one example where I intend to wake some Muslims up from the garboil of people like Naik Zakir! By the time we get into this subject, Muslims who have been recycling and plagiarizing his materials will simply look elsewhere.} 

I'm beginning to enjoy these enquiries and discussions. . . although perhaps we may be in the wrong thread. Sorry about that - I do hope that we can find the grace to continue this discussion in another more appropriate thread, so that the "Barika Jumah" may continue for our Muslims friends. How about that?

Anyhow, here is something in D__D's that should never be forgotten:

[quote author=D__D link=topic=106630.msg1886481#msg1886481 date=1201260234]. . . it is not enough to build a doctrine on one single verse of the bible . . . everything must be looked at in context of other scriptures.[/quote]Words on marble. Might I add this: to build a doctrine from a single text/verse will lead ultimately to the disastrous emergence of a cult.

This has been proven again and again - and it doesn't matter whatever religion it is: Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Baha'i, etc. One should be willing to look at the collective whole (rather than a single item) before asserting a particular ideology!

I'd like to share more on the verses we are examining about the doctrine of God being the FATHER and the relationship of Christ as the divine Son (another appropriate thread, perhaps?). My views are not superior to anybody's, and may not sound "reasonable" to many (even among Christians); but I'll take some time in the coming month to share.

Shalom all.

@namdo,

How body? God bless you for that post!

This is what people should begin to understand in their walk with God:

namdo:
And yes if we had pastors/teachers who taught us to be closer to Jesus and His life rather than involvement in hypocritical activities/programs

There's nothing that can take the place of a genuine and real relationship with Christ.

Activities are good and have their valued place in the Christian life; afterall, the Bible admonishes us that, as believers we are "created in Christ Jesus unto good works" (Eph. 2:10); and faith without works is a useless venture (James 2:26).

However, good works only follow (and are sustained by) a living relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. That is the starting point - and to assume any other position will lead to a burnout.

_{<<Cough! Cough!!>>}

I've heard a few people say that sex is worship. . . or, in some other instance, that "sex is the highest expression of worship".

I don't see the connection, unless. . . some are pushing for back to some sort of. .  em, perhaps "Phallus worship"?   Sometimes a controversial subject, not so?    Hmm ?   

Wow! How quickly this discussion has grown!

I'll take time to digest the views from all sides first before dropping any of mine.

Cheers all.

Thanks for sharing, guys.

Thre value of doctrine in our faiths cannot be overstated. I opened this thread just about when it was a popular idea (even among many Christians) that doctrines are not important to us - simply because many people feel that it is the one thing that divide people and inevitably results in many denominations and disunity.

There might be some substance to that persuasion; but from the example in cgift's entry, it is obvious that Biblical truth cannot be sacrificed on the altar of what many people assume to be "unity". A so-called 'Christian unity' that is founded upon disregard for Biblical truth will still be rejected by God.

Doctrines should not necessarily divide Christians. And we should not "apologise" for separating from established doctrinal heresies either, even when they are being held by "Christians". However, when this sad events occur, what kind of attitude should we adopt when separating from those who have departed from Biblical truth? It isn't easy at all to grasp everything one may call "truth"; but a good start would be for us to have a spirit of humility in our walk with Christ.

@samsonola,

samsonola:
@D_D

''I can do nothing on my own authority; as i hear ,i judge;and my judgement is just, because i seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me'' John 5:30
Jesus is still helpless without God. He cannot take decisions without the almighty God,the cretor  and sustainer of all that exists approving it.

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

The Jews clearly understood what Christ meant . . . that He was God Himself in human flesh.

This is nothing but contradicion to John 5:30. It still dosent appeal to reason   
Bless you

Let me ask you this: as a Muslim, what actually appeals to "reason"? Does it appeal to your "reason" that Muhammad denied the revelations of the OT prophets? How many times have we asked that simple question?

Let's review thm again, shall we? If you do care to see the facts, I'll be glad to share them.

Cheers.

@babs787,

babs787:
Can you shed more light on what biblical christianity connotes?

Thanks for asking.

However, the part of my response you quoted should not be a hat-trick you can easily employ to deflect the topic of the thread and turn it into something else, thank you.

If you care, please re-read the topic again and again until it settles in -

"Why Is The Cross Or Pole So Important To Christians?"

That is what the poster was trying to figure out - and that is what the responses have been about so far.

samsonola:
@Davidlyan
Jesus is not like this during his lifetime. Shaytan has taken pocession of this guys soul. He is in complete darkness. How can your god who created you come back and be beaten to death because of your sins. Is your god a mortal?

Dear samsonola,

It is quite easy to be sarcastic and vehement against other people's convictions simply because it is the default mindset of Muslims to do so. However, the two things you have expressed disdain for are actually declared in the prophecies of the OT scriptures - the same scriptures which contain the revelations of the prophets which Muhammad both denied and rejected.

Every single time you guys slur the faiths of others, always bear this point in your conscience: whatever you castigate, it does not negate the fact the Muhammad qualified himself as a false prophet by denying the very revelations of the Biblical prophets which he claimed to have come to confirm.

It doesn't matter that the Qur'an is revered by Muslims - more than that, it matters that the denials of Muhammad are today regarded as "holy". You need to first go learn this simply thing:

WHY did Muhammad deny the revelation of the Biblical prophets that God IS "FATHER"?

I have asked that questions so many times for Muslim responses - but you guys quietly shy away from it. Could it be that you are tacitly acknowledging the fact that Muhammad was indeed a false prophet?

@salinco,

salinco:
I don’t really understand, if a Muslim open a thread to share love and greetings some unreasonable person we show up to disturb some good discussion.

You needed to have cried as much when your Muslim brethren tried to invade Christian threads. . . until they shamed themselves out of it - free of charge.

salinco:
Muslims on this thread are very polite on their discussion and I don’t know while some people refused to learn the important of sharing knowledge.

If you had seen the misgivings of samsonola before posting yours, would you have considered that as being "polite"?

salinco:
If anyone needs answer to a question, it must be polite and constructive.

Perhaps you may need to preach that to your Muslim ummah as many times as you care to. It would do them a world of good.

salinco:
Let us share the words of Love and Peace.

Aye.

@D__D,

[quote author=D__D link=topic=106630.msg1885018#msg1885018 date=1201206246]My God is not mortal . . . but he took on mortality that he might conquer sin, death and the grave that through Him we may have life eternal.[/quote]Thank you for those key words: "took on". . . "conquer" - and the results thereto.

[quote author=D__D link=topic=106630.msg1885018#msg1885018 date=1201206246]The sad thing is you say Jesus was not like this during His lifetime but you cannot prove it from your empty quran.[/quote]What they understand as "proof" is to blurt out verses from the Qur'an simply because Muhammad said so - even if those verses have no coherence or authenticity.

lafile:
Chosen Royal Priest Peculiar CGift.

I am staggered!! I never would have thot abut it!

Okay, here:

The right honourable Cgift, CRPP, PPRC, RPPC, PRPC, (even NNPC sef)!!

@samsonola,

How body?

samsonola:
Christians claimed that a Jesus Chist(AS) was crucified on a cross and yet they keep a symbol of this cross on their necks,in churches in their homes etc. It baffles me.This means that if the same Jesus had been hanged ,then that loop would have been an object of great adoration. It does not make sense,please enlighten me anyone

Start from here: Christians do not worship or venerate any "loop" - whether it represents the Cross, or the Muslim symbol of the Moon, or any other object.

Many peopkle practise things today that are not part of their religious tenets - whether Christians or Muslims. We all know that, don't we? I have shared about the veneration of tombs and graves by Muslims in many mosques around the world - but to be honest with you, we all know that it is contrary to Islam (judging Muhammad's protests about it shortly before his death).

In the same way, it would be helpful to first understand what Biblical Christianity connotes before assuming to adjudge it from the things you see around you.

Cheers.

olabowale:
@Hotfunmi: You title your Thread very wrong. You need to remove Islam from it. From your initial entry, you doubt if it is Islamic compartable. then from what i quoted from you in this response, you confirmed it that you know this is a Christian thing; initially the catholics and now adding, the protestants.

If you do still have a conscience, please understand that such cultic practices are NOT "a Christian thing". I know of many people who are Muslims and involved in far sinsiter engagements - and we know after close examination that they are actually practising the "Muslim thing" in those engagements.

@olabowale,

olabowale:
HOw do you explain the incongruencies, between the Old Testament and the New Testament?

It all depends on what you assume to be "incongruences" - and I'm sure neither Jews and Christians are losing sleep over such Muslim concerns. Muslims often deliberately castigate the Old Testement prophets and scriptures while at the same time pretending to believe in those same prophets! Is that not hypocrisy at its zenith?

However, various prophets were raised up by God to declare His unfailing promises (as enunciated above in my last rejoinder); as well as declare who exactly He is to those who believe in Him.

God is not the "father" of false prophets who have chosen to be deliberately under the grip of their fallacies; and that point has been made again and again.

However, the Biblical prophets all declared God to be the FATHER of His covenant people (Deut. 32:6 and Isaiah 63:16).

How is it that the Biblical prophets knew God as "FATHER" in the OT; the apostles in the NT also knew God as FATHER (Matthew 6:9). . . but Muhammad came along and denied that very revelation - and you assume that the OT and NT are sharing some undefined "incongrunces" of Muslim worries?

We need to come to bare facts - Muhammad was the one who brought "incongruencies" - his takes do not tessellate with the redemptive histories of God's covenant people; he knew nothing about the Biblical revelations of God; and he made fascinating assumptions that any sane person would need to flee from them (such as the Muslim tenet that Muhammad gave when he announced that every Muslim has a demon attaché). Which one of the prophets had an "incongruency" of praying about a personal demon as Muhammad did?

olabowale:
When you have this disagreement, which one do you choose and why?

Having pointed out the "incongruencies", I chose to leave Islam behind and flee to the saving grace of God. Why? For the reasons already highlighted above and more.

If anything at all, I know that God in His love does not send any demon attaché upon his believeing people.

I also know that none of the Biblical prophets had a personal devil/demon/jinn. I also know that Muhammad had no clue about who the wonderful Holy Spirit was - and most of all, I know that Muhammad denied the revelation that God is known as FATHER!! (Deut. 32:6 and Isaiah 63:16).

These things may cause you some deep thinking - but it is not up to Jews and Christians to sort out any so-called "incongruencies"; rather, Muslims need to go find out who was actually inspiring Muhammad to deny the Spirit and instead declare that every Muslim has a demon attaché.

olabowale:
What you reject why leave it in?

I've enunciated to you that Christians do not "reject" the Old Testament. You need to go find out why Muslims have been both rejecting and attacking the revelations of the Biblical prophets both OT and NT.

olabowale:
Is what you reject abrogated by what you accepted?

Again, nobody is talking about any abrogations in the Bible! How can you "abrogate" the prophecies of the OT. . . or the promises of God therein?

Muhammad brought about this deception of "abrogating" verses here and there - for the simple fact that he was making things up and had no revelation from God. Period.

olabowale:
Then tell me and the Muslims what part of the 'Good News,' the New Testament, do you reject say, for instance, Mark 12 verse 29, which actually agrees with OLd Testament's Deut. 6 verse 4 that God is Lord and its One?

The GoodNews is that God sent His Son to be the Saviour of the world. David knew Him as "the Son" (Psalm 2:12); Daniel knew also about "the Son of God" (Dan. 3:25); both Moses and Isaiah knew God as FATHER (Deut. 32:6 and Isaiah 63:16) - and all the other prophets knew both the deity of the FATHER, SON and HOLY SPIRIT.

More than that, the prophecies of the OT prophets all AGREE that God would send His Spirit into OUR HEARTS.

Now please tell us: where did Muhammad acknowledge all these promises and blessings?

NOWHERE!!

Instead, Muhammad replaced the Biblical narratives with his tales and then preached that every Muslim has a demon attaché - is that goodnews to YOU, olabowale?

olabowale:
That God the Lord is not three, a trinity etc. How do you then inject Jesus to be what Jesus said with his own mouth that he was not? Tell me, because i am thirsty to know.

If you are thirsty to know, then this is what Jesus said with His own mouth:

John 10:36
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified,
and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest;
because I said, I am the Son of God?

Are you accusing Him of blasphemy - when Muhammad only has a demon attaché as your best deal?

I pray that you know the grace of Jesus Christ who truly saves! he saves from all such demon attachés and gives the Holy Spirit into the heart of the believer!

Shalom.

@olabowale,

olabowale:
So how do the Christians explain their partial disregard for the Old testament part of 'the Bible,' the source of guidance?

To be sure, Christians do not "disregard" the Old Testament - it is as vital to the Christian faith as is the New Testament.

The only problem that has been feeding your misconception is that you have not taken the time at all to carefully read through and seek to understand the value of the OT to the Christian faith. The OT has several values for everyone - such as the understanding the Bible gives us about the Creation, the Fall, the redemptive history of the nations, as well as the various exhortations as to the meaning of life.

On the other hand, when you enter upon the covenants addressed specifically to a specific people, you find that it would constantly present a problem for you to mistake those people every single time for "Christians".

For example, addressing the nation of Israel, Moses specifically said this:

Deuteronomy 5:2
The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers,
but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

Now, Moses was not addressing Christians - rather, he was addressing the Jews specifically!

In the same way, he was not addressing the Arabs, nor the Egyptians, nor even the generations before the emergence of the Jewish Nation/people. If you keep these issues in clear perspective, you will not be so passionate about your misgivings.

Indeed, several things that Moses declared are indeed timeless and apply to every single person of whatever clime, religion and creed. The Decalogue (10 Commandments), for instance, are valuable to all people - especially when we seek to understand their spiritual significance. Do Christians adhere to the Decalogue then? More than that, the blessing of what the decalogue point to have been etched deep into our hearts by God's new covenant graces.

These grace new covenant graces were not as a result of any OT verse being "abrogated" (which some Muslims define as to "forget" or "substitute" verses here and there). Quite to the contrary, they have already been PROPHESIED as what people of all generations should look out for! An example is found in the prophecy given by Ezekiel:

Ezekiel 36:26 & 27
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you:
and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give
you an heart of flesh. || And I will put my spirit within you, and cause
you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do
them.

Was this a new thing to replace any so-called "abrogated" verses? Not at all - because way back before Ezekiel gave that prophecy, even Moses had declared these wonderful promises about God's blessing about a new heart and also about giving His Spirit to those who would believe in His grace:

Deuteronomy 30:6
And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart
of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and
with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Numbers 11:29
And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all
the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his
spirit upon them!

In all these things, the OT scriptures are valuable to Christians - we know then about the true promises of God:

~ to give us new hearts to truly love and understand Him

~ to truly know and believe in His promises

~ to have faith in His wonderful promises of the Holy Spirit

~ as well as to expose false prophets who come to DENY these revelations!

This is why again and again, our simple question to Muslims is this:

WHY would Muhammad deny any revelation given to the Old Testatment prophets?!?

For any so-called prophet to rise up and deny these wonderful promises as well as fabricate tales to distort the true redemptive history of God's covenant people simply qualifies that person as a "FALSE PROPHET". We would never have known this without the Old Testament.

Lolabbey:
A Nice Poem


They lie on the table side by side -

The Holy Quran and the TV Guide.
One is well worn and cherished with pride.
Not the Quran, but the TV Guide.
One is used daily to help folks decide.
Not the Quran, but the TV Guide.
As the pages are turned, what shall they see?
Oh, what does it matter, turn on the TV
So they open the book in which they confide.
No, not the Quran, but the TV Guide.
The Word of Allah is seldom read.
Maybe a verse before they fall into bed.
Exhausted and sleepy and tired as can be.
Not from reading the Quran, from watching TV
So then back to the table side by side,
Lie the Holy Quran and the TV Guide.
No time for prayer, no time for the Word,
The plan of Istiqama is seldom heard.
But forgiveness of sin, so full and free,
Is found in the Quran, not on TV

ON THE TABLE SIDE BY SIDE

On the table side by side
The Holy Bible and the TV Guide
One is well worn but cherished with pride,
Not the Bible but the TV Guide.
One is used daily to help folks decide,
No! It isn't the Bible, it's the TV Guide.
As pages are turned, what shall they see?
Oh, what does it matter, turn on the TV.
So, they open the book in which they confide --
No, not the Bible, it's the TV Guide.
The Word of God is seldom read,
Maybe a verse as they fall into bed,
Exhausted and sleepy and tired as can be,
Not from reading the Bible, but watching TV.
So, then back to the table, side by side,
Are the Holy Bible and the TV Guide,
No time for prayer, no time for the Word;
The plan for salvation is seldom heard.
Forgiveness of sin so full and free
Is found in the Bible, no on TV!!

----Anonymous

(http://awesomedevotions..com/2007/12/on-table-side-by-side.html)

jintujinta:
May your sojourn be profitable and may you return home with great rewards. (Waa kere oko dele o)

Ami - ami - ami . . . lo ruko Jesu!!

@olabowale,

olabowale:
Now I read Warsh, which is more associated to the Moroccans, and also read Hafs. All my Qur'ans are in Hafs, which is an easier reading for me, because I am very used to the character.

Can you share with us WHY you chose Hafs over others - aside from it "is an easier reading for me"? Does your preference not establish the FACT that there are different Qur'ans already - the one you chose and those you would prefer not to use? Afterall, even you had to acknowledge the difference here:

olabowale:
But I learnt how to read Qur'an from what the Indian/Pakistani subcontinent is more associated with. Yet it is a different character from the other two, the Warsh and Hafs!

Thanks for sharing on that - we just hope that no Muslim will come and wave that garboil of claiming that the Qur'an is exactly the same without any difference in character or dot!

olabowale:
But we all pronounce it the same way. Whether you read slow, fast, prolonging as if exagerating the sound, or sharp as if compressing the sound, in Warsh, Hafs, or any style, the trained eyes, ears and tongue will correct the reciter, even when they are from opposite ends of the world, if a mistake is made.

If the Qur'an has any meaning, Muslim translators would have told us simply and clearly the difference between "baptism, system, colour, dye, religion" that they used in Sura 2 v 138, for example. What's the use in reciting something that you cannot understand simply because the "style" seems to attract you much more than the content and meaning of what you are reciting?

olabowale:
Tell your hoodini, that his magic did nothing to the muslims. We do not falkl for flim flam, or any ind of hokeydoke! Tell your person and am addressing this to all the non Muslims, that Qur'an does not have to be written down before it can be recited. It is an oral document, so his hypothesis of written vowels or word variations id zero on the scale of 1 to 10.

Because you are addressing all non-Muslim, that's why I decided to reply you directly. Please be bold and address poster directly and stop ducking behind your finger.

Meanwhile, your diddle above simply again confirms the fact that there was no "book" handed to Muhammad - nobody saw any such "book". The Qur'an was personally dictated by Muhammad, and the idea that it was an "oral" document is a contradiction in terms. The Qur'an was not a document but rather was the effect of Muhammad's experience after he was pressed in te cave!

olabowale:
It is the same way that a mistake is correct in salah by the making up what you did not do, eg, if the numbers of rakah wee not exacly as it is supposed to be, you make the two prostrations of the face before you get out of the Salah.

When will people understand that such ritual is mind-slavery?

olabowale:
This s a strange phenomina, to you, since prostration is something you are arrogant to do yet. Even muhammad was the one who had most prostrations in Salah to his Creator. Afterall, no one can be as good as him in Islamic worship.

Sorry, your cover-up is not sufficient to deceive anybody here. Muhammad was not better than Jonah - he said so himself; and again Muhammad saw David as a better worshipper than the whole Muslim world put together!!

It must be a strange phenomenon for you as well - seeing that your style these days is to deny the SAHIH Hadiths.

olabowale:
I can not say that about Christians and Jesus, since Jesus was not a Christian anyhow.

Of course not - how can you say that about Jesus, when He was not a Muslim anyhow?

olabowale:
So your mode of worshipis something strange to Jesus and was also developed by others after him, who could not possibly be his true follower(s).

The mode of worship you claim here for Islam was not known by ANY Biblical prophets. Please find me where David, Jeremiah and Isaiah did the rakah thing that you are not even sure if it is one or two.

@jintujinta,

Great name - yours!

jintujinta:
May your days be long.

What a blessing this morning! As someone once prayed for me, so I say: "May God Himself bless you with both Hands!" _{Kai! That prayer has been answered in so many ways for me!}

jintujinta:
actually that question was sarcastic. It was only meant to ridicule the act.

You were actually being too kind, believe me! I haven't been home (Naija) for sometime now. . . but "home" is with us here in the UK! So I can well relate to the craze for titles, and I might add here that perhaps the reason why it does not seem to garner moss as it does back home is that some sterling must drop along with it!

jintujinta:
the main thrust of the topic is why do christians allow it in the house of God and what can the Christians do to stop it?

I've been wondering about that myself. . . although I must say I'm fortunate to be in a place (fellowship) where such tendencies are seriously discouraged.

We had a study on the power of words.

Words - written or spoken - have the latent potency to cause reactions. A man hath joy by the answer of his mouth: and a word spoken in due season, how good is it - (Prov. 15:23).

In various ways, we have all experienced various emotions and reactions from words we either read or heard. . . or even said to others. In the midst of it all, can we be truly blessed if the words we speak lack any real values of truth and kindness?

Php. 4:8 & 9 - 

[list]Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.[/list]

Amen.

jintujinta:
Please what is your own title or what would you like to be called to confirm your craze for title?

Not everyone (Nigerians included) are crazy about titles - so there's only a few people who might want to "confirm" their craze for such.

Job 32:22
For I know not to give flattering titles;
in so doing my Maker would soon take me away.