₦airaland Forum

Ubenedictus: i doubt that, i wasnt trying to be poetic, things are what they are. I have decided to tap the unfollow botton, bye.

You must be calm if you must learn or teach others, if you vex commot here because ur eyes see wetin you no like, then u no get patient at all.
And if you have something that others might learn from you, because of anger, you would not be able to pour them out.

I understand you Love your lord, But know ye that the Op does too, likewise everyone of us here seeking to know the truth.

Be calm bros...

frosbel: In the beginning was the WORD, I am sure John knew what Son or Jesus meant.

Brother Frosbel na waoooh

Lets take a good look at this verse.

“Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness” (Gen. 1:26).

You will agree with me that when God said this, He was nt talking to Himself na . Abi you won tellme say He been confused?. Of course not.
God is plainly more than one Person. The Hebrew word used here is elohim. A uni-plural word. THEREFORE, one God, but meanin' more than one Person. God and Christ represent two separate Beings, As plainly illustrated in the start of John's writting.
Together, they represent the “Us” and “Our” of this verse.

Back to John writing....You have been giving it several meaning in your comments forgetting thet,the only way the "WORD" could both be God and be “with” God is if there were two separate Beings. One Being, the Word who became Jesus Christ, came to earth and “dwelt among men,” until His crucifixion as the Savior. The other Being, the Father, remained in heaven and was the One to whom Jesus Christ prayed. He (Christ's Father) was the One who resurrected Him from the dead so that He could return to His throne in heaven. The Muslims always say to trinitarians:

If Jesus is God then who does He pray to? , A good question indeed no? Jesus left Heaven to earth.
He left His Father in Heaven for the sake of Mankind. So while He was on earth, He prayed to His father. If He was Yahweh Himself, He definately cannot pray to Himself. John 1 told Us He was the word. And that He was in the beginning/Debut.


I take to your advise when you say we should becareful in the way and manner we interprets Scriptures.
But sometimes even when the scripture esplains itself, you still try harder to fit it with a meaning.
This baffles me alot. Bros Frosbel, Maybe you can explain what Christ meant here in the verse below as well.

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Christ Church will teach only the truth and the Catholic does not even fits it, So much idolatry

@Frosbel&Frosbela.....una dey follow each other?

Ubenedictus: d same book that say make no image also says make image. Learn to interprete

If it says make image, did it authorised you to bow to it?

JeSoul: Lol@topic,
the only thing that is NOT okay to eat on that plate is the egg. The darn thing is not cooked enough

Seriously, those verses you quoted should be taken in context of living in a certain society and certain foods/practices going hand in hand - the problem is not necessarily the food - but rather what the consumption of the food in that context and in that setting (offered to idols) would imply - that you approved of and served the idol. If you took those verses literally then what would you do with this one?

1 Timothy 4 >>[size=14pt]
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods , which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer. [/size]

I just learnt something from this chapter you posted, thanks.

pastormustwacc: @op, since it was not angelica herself speaking in the video, i cannot "verify easily" if the story is likely to be true.

I tire oo, na man voice i hear too

2mch: Gbam!
Catholic Church that is. This is why no frosbel nor other haters can prevail against it.

Its not a matter of Hate, its a matter of revealing the long hiden truth. Don't you wanna reign with Christ? If yes,
you will always seek the truth that will set you free.

Truthabounds: There could be no finer and surer foundation for the true church than Christ Jesus, could there? It is his own perfect human life given as a ransom that makes possible this divine arrangement. Yet, how can we harmonize this testimony by Jesus and the apostle Paul with what Jesus stated to Peter at Matthew 16:18? We may be sure that there is no contradiction.
Peter had just acknowledged Jesus to be the Christ (or, the Messiah), the Son of the living God. Jesus then said: “I say to thee: That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church.” (Dy) Some understand these words to mean that Jesus’ church is built on Peter as the foundation. This is the official position of the Roman Catholic Church. But it is of interest to note that Archbishop Kenrick, in the book An Inside View of the Vatican Council (1870), shows that of at least eighty-six early church “fathers,” only seventeen understood Jesus’ reference to the “rock” as applying to Peter. Were you aware of this?
But of far more importance—how did Peter himself understand Jesus’ words? Concerning the Lord Jesus, Peter said: “Unto whom coming, as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men but chosen and made honourable by God: Be you also as living stones built up, a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore it is said in the scripture: Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious. And he that shall believe in him shall not be confounded. To you therefore that believe, he is honour: but to them that believe not, the stone which the builders rejected, the same is made the head of the corner: and a stone of stumbling and a rock of scandal, to them who stumble at the word.” (1 Peter 2:4-8, Dy) These words of Peter show that he, like the apostle Paul, understood Jesus to be the “chief corner stone,” the “rock” on which the church is built. Peter is just one of the 144,000 “living stones” making up the true church.

Nice one!

truthislight: "also, i say to you, You are peter, and on this rock-mass i will build my congregation and the of Hedes will not overpower it"



note, " on this rock-mass i will build"

and this :

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. " (Matthew 16:18).

Where did you get that from?

I am reading a book on this Frobel thread, am only at the chapter Two, and the book is already revealing alot hahaha.

I am comparelling it to two other books on this same subject and it makes real sense because they used the bible to defend this false claim of the Catholics.

Here is what the author says:

[b]Built Upon Which Rock?—Peter the First Pope?

When the Protestant Reformers rejected Rome’s authority, they were simultaneously rejecting the rule of popes over the church. Let’s briefly return to Matthew 16:18—where Christ said, “I will build My Church”—this time examining His statement to Peter.
Let’s first read: “And I say also unto you, That you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”
This verse is the single bedrock scripture to Catholic theology regarding the supposed authority of popes, who are said to derive their authority directly from Christ’s supposed empowerment of Peter, and thus his successors in an unbroken line ever since. Over a billion Catholics today, and generations before them, have been taught that this passage designates Peter as the first pope. The verse simply does not say this, and the reader needs to understand what it does say—what Christ meant by His statement.
Breaking down the important Greek words within this verse makes it easier to understand:
Peter comes from the Greek word petros, meaning a piece of rock, but either bigger or smaller than a stone. (Note that the Greek word for “stone” is lithos, and it essentially means a medium-sized rock.) The Greek word for Rock is petra, which means a mass of rock, usually very large.
Let’s carefully examine and understand. Verse 13 mentions that Christ was speaking at Caesarea Philippi. It is significant that He chose this site to speak of His Church! Here is why.
This city is in the far north of today’s Israel, about 25 miles north of Capernaum and the Sea of Galilee. Located at the foot of Mt. Hermon, it is where one of the three main branches of the Jordan River originates. The area is very beautiful.
A Key—Where Christ Was Speaking
I have stood on the spot from which Christ delivered these words. This is what I saw—and what anyone would see: Immediately above where the river springs from the base of a cliff is a massive rock outcropping that dominates the topography. Its presence towers over the landscape. None who were present when Christ spoke these words could possibly have believed He was talking about building His Church on Peter, whom He compared to a little rock. The enormous physical size of the rock looming directly over Christ’s head reinforced His message that He was building the Church on a giant Rock—HIMSELF! This is, no doubt, why He picked this setting to utter His words in Matthew 16:18 to His disciples, and to Peter.
In effect, Christ was saying that Peter was a small rock. On the other hand, Jesus Christ is the large rock, or foundation stone of the Church that He built. Christ is actually distinguishing between the two. Proof that the mass of rock is Christ can be found in I Corinthians 10:4, Ephesians 2:20, Matthew 7:24 and 16:13-16.
Understand that Christ is the great Rock that the Church is built upon. This verse is absolutely not saying that Peter is either that massive rock or that the Church is built on him. I Corinthians 3:11 shows there can be only one foundation (Christ), not two. Obviously, this applies to Peter’s role. Ephesians 4:11-12 explains that apostles (Peter, Paul, John, etc.) were in offices that Christ established to serve His Church. Collectively, with the prophets, they form part of the Church’s foundation—alongside Christ (Eph. 2:20).
Think of Christ as having complimented Peter. Then there is this: If He had established Peter as the first (and infallible) pope, how could Peter almost immediately have fallen into what Christ labeled a satanic attitude in the very next verses, 21 to 23? Take a moment to read them. Would such an attitude be possible for one who was spiritually infallible? Also, there is this question: How could Peter have later denied Christ three times?[/b]

I think the part three will be giving ten biblical PROOFS that Peter was probably never even in Rome

HISfavoryt: Don't mind them, some are claiming its fake, she framed it while some are making jest/ fun of it. I'm not surprised cos that is how it was in the days of Noah, when Noah was telling and begging them to repent that God is about 2 destroy the world, they laugh n made jest of him calling him an old fool who doesn't know what he was doing. They neglected him, until the flood came and wiped them away.

Pls do not be among the unfortunate ones. Ur soul is very important, 'JESUS IS NO LONGER COMING SOON, BUT NOW!!!!!!!!

Beloved, don't' say u were not told. Much luv.

Do not be carried away with stories like this, true or false, its not for true Christians.
A true Christian is led by the word of God. The bible has much warning on how we should watch and pray to be counted worthy. Isn't this enough? Should one have to be told how dreadful Hell is or How beautiful heaven is before taking a fast decition?

I would like anyone to tell us if the Bible prophecies these kind of stories that we have to believe them

pastormustwacc: That was a parable now. Did you read my thread that Jesus did not go to heaven on friday? He was sleeping in the grave until God woke him up. And when Lazarus was dead, Jesus knowing he was dead said he was asleep.

And when the trumpet shall sound, did it say that the dead christians will come down from heaven? Must i go on before you understand?? hun?

Wen person no know e go ask kuesion na

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Op don break record

EasyG: @obadiah777: This has got nothing whatsoever to do with Christ. The apparition wasn't a spiritual being. Don't get it twisted okay? Like I said I am sharing an extra-ordinary experience and it doesn't bother me if people respond with derision. It is what it is.

You are right, it is good to share experience but not without a concret proof, we are in a technological world, at least some proof would have crown your experience
you know what i mean

Pastor Kun: Interesting, what I can't reconcile is the shape changing mother ship and the giant transparent 'human' the OP saw. Sightings of UFOs have been reported by thousands of credible people world wide. I won't rush to dismiss the OP just becos it happened in Nigeria but I would advise he investigates further and ask other people in his area if they had a similar experience. He could also post the sketches his wife drew so we can have an idea what the UFO looked like.

They wasted much time in sketching, at least they are well to do, they must have a smart phone to take snap sharp sharp picture na, all these talk talk for no come in

naijamark: Please take this post to joke section and change the topic to: "after smoking weed with my wife, we were seeing things"

You are indeed FUNNY ....

The verse didn't cancel the Sabbath, it is just saying if one does not observed the Sabbath, He/she shouldn't be condemn/judge for this.
If anyone continue keeping it because no verse in anywhere cancel it, its even of more advantage in obeying all of Gods law.

The end shall tell, but then it might be too late for those that believed it was done away with by Christ.

Joagbaje:I didn't talk about fake sabbath ,old testament things are shadow of the real. when I said Jesus was the true sabbath.

If you say that the old testament things are shadow of the real, is tithe not old testament things that was even praticed by the Jews only.
Why then Gentiles Hold strong to tithing and rejects the Sabbath by saying the Sabbath is for the Jews only?

God bless everyone that keep His Sabbath, its for Gods people, anyone who does obey Gods law is Gods child not only the Jews.

Isaiah. 56:1 This is what the LORD says: "Maintain justice and do what is right, for my salvation is close at hand and my righteousness will soon be revealed. 2 Blessed is the man who does this, the man who holds it fast, who keeps the Sabbath without desecrating it, and keeps his hand from doing any evil." 3 Let no foreigner who has bound himself to the LORD say, "The LORD will surely exclude me from his people." And let not any eunuch complain, "I am only a dry tree." 4 For this is what the LORD says: "To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant. 5 to them I will give within my temple and its walls a memorial and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that will not be cut off. 6[b] And foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to serve him, to love the name of the LORD, and to worship him, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant.[/b] 7 these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations."

This is Old testament and it continues in the New testament.....You said He did not Jesus didnt observed it, Do you have a scripture that told us Jesus usually teach on Sunday as we see that He usually teach on the Sabbath?

Mark 1:19 When he had gone a little farther, he saw James son of Zebedee and his brother John in a boat, preparing their nets. 20Without delay he called them, and they left their father Zebedee in the boat with the hired men and followed him. 21They went to Capernaum,and when the Sabbath came, Jesus went into the synagogue and began to teach

Mark 6:1 Jesus left there and went to his hometown, accompanied by his disciples. 2 When the Sabbath came, he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed. "Where did this man get these things?" they asked. "What's this wisdom that has been given him, that he even does miracles!


Jesus did not Cancel the Sabbath but made it simple for mankind to enjoy it, It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath but not to do evil:

Mark 3:1 Another time he went into the synagogue, and a man with a shriveled hand was there. 2Some of them were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal him on the Sabbath. 3Jesus said to the man with the shriveled hand, "Stand up in front of everyone." 4[b]Then Jesus asked them, "Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?"[/b] But they remained silent.

If the Sabbath was/will no longer be observed, Jesus would have told them plainly, like He told the Pharisees "About His existance Before Abraham to thier faces.
After all He knew He will be killed, why should He continue to observe and modify the Sabbath law? After His death, The aplostles continue to Keep the Sababath.

obadiah777: YOU ERR. THATS THE PART THAT MAKES IT BELIEVABLE. THAT IS HOW CHRIST DRESSES AND WHAT HE HAS DESCRIBED IS THE CHARIOT OF GOD. THE LORD AND THE ANGELS MOVE AROUND IN CHARIOTS THAT NASA CALLS UFOS. IF WHAT HE SAW IS REAL THEN HE HAS JUST SEEN THE CHARIOT OF THE LORD WITH THE ANGELS OR CHRIST HIMSELF.

Really?

frosbela: I am not related to frosbel

Following:
Image123(m), frosbel(m)

You are not to be located, why? Let us know, Frosbel is our fan here

CrazyMan: Which one is frosbela again? Is frosbel now married?

@topic.

Awake from your hallucination...its morning already.

But emmm...I found your story interesting though.

She is Very recent

Enigma: ^^^ You are not reading my posts carefully!

And you do not understand the arguments of the "Trinitarians".

If you were reading my posts carefully, you will see that I support and agree with John 1:18 that you are mentioning. I even quoted part of it on this very thread. I suggest you read this earlier post of mine on this very thread very very carefully. https://www.nairaland.com/1077335/trinitarians-ignorant-what-moses-said/1#12635381

In particular I suggest you note the last passage I referred to i.e. John 14:9 then compare it and try to understand or work out its relationship to John 1:18 that you mentioned.

Second, I suggest you examine how John 12:41 explains how it was possible for Isaiah to see God. Then relate it again to what Jesus said in both John 14:9 AND John 1:18.

Perhaps then you will see why it is not difficult for us "Trinitarians" to accept that Jacob wrestled with God.

These verses are synonyms, but they do not speak of three gods in ONE. Christ came to revealed God to us, He who have Seen Jesus has seen God,but not talking about Seeing Yahweh face to face.

Enigma: @plappville, do you know that if you read that John 1:18 in other Bible versions, it actually expressly refers to Jesus as God?

Examples (from an old post of mine)

John 1:18

NIV

ESV

NASB

KJV (funny enough the KJV which is oft reviled here is the one that uses "Son" for 'God')

Yes its saying if you have seen Jesus You have seen God. This verse is refering to two being.
Just like (John 1:1-2) But One must be greater than the Other as Jesus clearly stated in multiple verses. that doesn't make two or three Gods in One. because the bible says
God is one.

[quote author=Ricky_Ross]Very soon their congregants will come out in great numbers to defend him, its normal in Nigeria to defend your tribesman even if he is a terrorist.
Upon all the wealth at his disposal, his university is among the most expensive in Nigeria, this is a school built with church money, tithes, seeds etc. Hundreds of thousands of his congregants are living in poverty, yet he never thought it wise to assist them. Yet he tells his sheep to pay tithe and Kingdom Investment so that God will come down from heaven and help them.

A REAL MAN OF GOD WILL NEVER TELL YOU TO PAY TITHE TO RECEIVE BLESSING

A REAL SERVANT OF GOD WILL NEVER TELL ANYONE TO PAY TITHE OR SOW
SEED TO AVERT CALAMITY

REAL MEN OF GOD PREACHES SALVATION AND WINNING SOULS FOR GOD, A
REAL SERVANT OF GOD WILL NEVER TELL ANYONE TO PAY TITHE OR SOW SEED TO RECEIVE HEALING.

MAY GOD SAVE US FROM THE HANDS OF FAKE PROPHETS. NOW AM NOT
CALLING ANYONE FALSE PROPHET BC AM NOT GOD AND AM NOT PERFECT.[/quote]You have said it all, i wouldn't do better.

People will continue to remain in brainwash because they have ignored Christ doctrine completely (the kingdom of God) they do all kind of paymeny in Church no because they truelly love God, but because they were made to know that they will recieve back from what they give. Jesus and His disciples where all time fisher men. They were contented with this. They didn establish different businesses etc. Come to think of it, how does this Pastor cope with all these wealth, Business and His Pastorial career? Wonders are increasing in the Church every day

obadiah777: just so you know i wasnt been rude lol

Far from it, i didn't take it as been rude ooo

Joagbaje: The sabbath day was a shadow of christ. The true sabbath is in Jesus . It is not a day but a place . A place of rest in christ.



Jesus didn't observe the sabbath. The sabbath was a shadow of christ. He ended it. He worked on sabbath days . His disciples harvested on sabbath day.



Matthew 5:17-19
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

To fulfill it . He did that he is the fulfillment. Sabbath means rest . Jesus is the lord of sa bath , and he had come to give rest.

[color=#990000]Matthew 11:28
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

bold 1: There was never a fake Sabbath

bold2: And there are several criptures that proved He did!

bold3: That makes it even more valid till date, fullfilling it is not cnacelling it, He gave the true definition of the Sabbath by making it a blessing.

bold4: This rest is not the Sabbath rest He refered to.

Joagbaje: Yes precisely



He was talking to Jews ,to whom he was sent. And he was answering a Jewish question .



Not exactly, there's probability.

Yes precisely


He was talking to Jews ,to whom he was sent. And he was answering a Jewish question

I am not agree with you that Jesus was talking to the ancient Israel that rejected Him. Reading the chapter from verse 1.
You will understand that He was talking with His disciples. (Matthew 24:1-20)

He simply advises them for incidental reasons, that they should pray that the need to flee will nt arise on the Sabbath or in winter.
Why it would not be prudent to flee in winter and Sabbath is so obvious. Because this engage those fleeing at risk.
The winter conditon would hamper flight, while the Sabbath due to the Jewish practice and custom.

Not exactly, there's probability.

Jesus gave this warning to the disciples becuse of the possibility that Jewish people would prevent Christians from fleeing on the Sabbath.
Christ knew that the Jews would not allow this kind of escape on the Sabbath. Christians in Judea and Jerusalem
might find it difficult or imposible to flee on this day. Hence this warning was required. It was a warning in advance.

Ubenedictus: this is the part i hate most, wen xtians start picking and chosing and throwing away parts of God's word.
Moses said a man like him will come and my bible says "the word was made flesh", so yes Jesus was flesh and blood and a prophet like moses, only that Jesus totally beats moses. The psalmist say no man can ransom another mans soul and my bible says "the word was God". Untill u learn to treat the bible as a unified whole u will away spew forth heresy.

Thesame bible the both qoute came from, i am not the one that said it. One said "the word was made flesh" the other said " a man like me"
If one say Jesus is God and another says Jesus is man what is my fault there?

It is clear that when the bible says the word was made flesh, this is refering to Jesus.
But don't forget, the bible also told us that No man has seen God, so i wonder

frosbel: 2 things :

I do not believe that JESUS existed as the second person of a Trinity or an angel.

We have to be very careful when analysing scripture.

Please provide me with evidence that Jesus existed either as an angel or as the second person of the Trinity.

Thank You.

I cannot tell you what is not supported by the scripture. If Jesus was an angel or second person its left for the bible to speak for itself.
You have been given numerous verses that proved Jesus pre-existance but they seem not to be enough for you.

We can see this review, The book of John starts with, “In the beginning was the "Word", and the Word was with God, and the "Word was God".
The same was in the beginning with God” (John 1:1-2). You can see that these verses reveal that two Beings existed “in the beginning.” One is the Word, and the other is God.
Just this background stroke out certain myths in revealing that Jesus did existed right from DEBUT DU MONDE. And the verses even made it clear that the word was God.

These doesn't say the word was Angel nor Second person, but it says the word was God. Further reading makes it clearer. Even if i am not agree that God is triune, I may agree that this verse speak about two eternal being which are seperated. The word was with God, THESAME WAS IN THE BEGINNING, Bros Frosbel.

Reyginus: Let's not go back to that trinity circle. Pls

You re right, the topic is about Christ pre-existance.

Believers should seek God, and not a legalistic rule, about how much to give. The value of our offering is not determined by how much we give, but how we give.

Mark 12:41-44 Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury.
Many rich people threw in large amounts. But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a fraction of a penny.
Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth,this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on."

2 Corinthians 9:7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

The way God values our offerings is different than how men do.

ijawkid: Jesus did pre-exist b4 is descension to earth...

Like I've always said and also supported by the scripture,Jesus is Gods 1st born.....

he(Jesus) is less than his God and Father but greater than the angels and all humans.....

That's how it is my bro frosbel.......

I wonder why Frosbel should doubt all scriptures that clearly showed this obvious

Anyway, i will join the talk later when i get small chance

Enigma: @plappville

You are doing two very bad things.

1. You are making a false accusation (I don't want to say you are lying) when you accuse me of twisting ----- because all I have done is to set out Bible passages. You are the one that has been doing the "interpreting" and twisting as a matter of fact.

2. You can pretend not to see the passages where Isaiah said he saw God or which say that Jacob wrestled with God. Well, they will still be there in the Bible.

why do you not agree with this verse? John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him
I did noticed that !