₦airaland Forum

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Ok, you know more than the Catholic Church. Since you want to keep talking, tell us what age a person should be baptized.

bashy_demy: you said they are coming from a night club definately its still a night even if its 5am in the morning,  and where did i point at your Jesus wrongly?

you said at happen at night so who are the witness, come stop lying in other to defend yourself is that what jesus taught you?

i want to as you one Question were you there when the 2 boys had an accident? do you know if they were hit by the Police or attack by some people? do no give false testimony so that you wont be judge your bible say that and beside you are just arguing without proof all i think you are doing is just write ups simple

uplawal:
@Plappville,mumu ni e,i was only quoting what Bernard Shaw said, and thats the fact,dnt need to drag this far,argue that with bernard shaw not me

or are you blind to see his name,and check your alledged errors,and you can bring more questions.

uplawal:
See them worshipping man,its highly shameful,later,during arguement,they will change him to Son,To christians,He is alltogether,son with a father,and also god,Tufiakpa.

uplawal:
I HAVE STUDIED HIM(MUHAMMAD)THE WONDERFUL MAN,and IN MY OPINION,HE IS FAR FROM BEING AN ANTI-CHRIST,HE MUST BE CALLED THE SAVIOUR OF HUMANITY,said by (GEORGE BERNARD SHAW)

sara j:
Why don't you leave your sister alone and stop
sticking your oar in? If you were my sister, I'd tell
you where to go.
You may have different beliefs to your sister which
is fine, but you've no right to shove them down her
throat just because you think you're right.

kelz88:
What false doctrine are you on about?

Does it really matter if the water is sprinkled on the person or if they have to be dipped in the ocean? [/b]You seem to be concentrating on irrelevant things. What's with the baptism dress? I have never seen it sold in the church. And even if the church sold it I really don't see what the deal is. Like I stated earlier, you have beef with the Catholic church.

This issue with worshiping Mary has been dealt with so many times. We do not worship Mary, we simply honour her. We acknowledge her and often ask her to intercede on our behalf. Someone explained it so much better here:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-2286.160.html


[b]Why can't non-Catholics accept this and move on? Why do we have to repeat ourselves?



[b]Everyone is entitled to interpreting the bible the way they want to. If you feel baptising a kid at such a young age is contrary to your belief, then good for you. [/b]Do it when you feel it's right. Tryna come across like you understand the bible better than the next man. You fail!


I rest my case.

imurboss:
I think the poster is confused and trying to confuse everyone else,at the same time you are contradicting yourself.You said there is no place in the bible where it says infants should be baptised and no place that says infants should not be baptised.You have answered the question yourself,you're still trying to confuse yourself.You better go and sleep and rest your head if you don't have a serious work to do. You're trying to use panadol for another person's headache. You dey vex well well o, you better relax so you no give yourself hypertension for nothing.

italo:
Pouring and Sprinkling versus Immersion

Ezek. 36:25 - Ezekiel prophesies that God "will 'sprinkle' clean water on you and you shall be clean." The word for "sprinkle" is "rhaino" which means what it says, sprinkle (not immersion). (“Kai rhaino eph hymas hydor katharon.”)

Matt. 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16 -John the Baptist prophesied that Jesus will baptize ("baptisei" with the Holy Spirit and fire. In this case, "baptisei" refers to a "pouring" out over the head. This is confirmed by Matt. 3:16 where the Holy Spirit descends upon Jesus' head like a dove and Acts 2:3-4 where the Holy Spirit descended upon Mary and the apostles' heads in the form of tongues of fire. In each case, in fulfilling John the Baptist's prophecy, the Lord baptized ("baptizo" in the form of pouring out His Spirit upon the head, not immersing the person.

Matt. 20:22-23; Mark 10:38-39; Luke 12:50 - Jesus also talks about His baptism (from "baptizo" of blood, which was shed and sprinkled in His passion. But this baptism does not (and cannot) mean immersion.

Mark 7:3 - the Pharisees do not eat unless they wash ("baptizo" ) their hands. This demonstrates that "baptizo" does not always mean immersion. It can mean pouring water over something (in this case, over their hands).

Mark 7:4 - we see that the Jews washed ("bapto" from baptizo) cups, pitchers and vessels, but this does not mean that they actually immersed these items. Also, some manuscripts say the Jews also washed (bapto) couches, yet they did not immerse the couches, they only sprinkled them.

Luke 11:38 - Jesus had not washed ("ebaptisthe" His hands before dinner. Here, the derivative of "baptizo" just means washing up, not immersing.

Acts 2:41 - at Peter's first sermon, 3,000 were baptized. There is archeological proof that immersion would have been impossible in this area. Instead, these 3,000 people had to be sprinkled in water baptism.

Acts 8:38 - because the verse says they "went down into the water," many Protestants say this is proof that baptism must be done by immersion. But the verb to describe Phillip and the eunuch going down into the water is the same verb ("katabaino" used in Acts 8:26 to describe the angel's instruction to Phillip to stop his chariot and go down to Gaza. The word has nothing to do with immersing oneself in water.

Acts 8:39 - because the verse says "they came up out of the water," many Protestants also use this verse to prove that baptism must be done by immersion. However, the Greek word for "coming up out of the water" is "anebesan" which is plural. The verse is describing that both Phillip and the eunuch ascended out of the water, but does not prove that they were both immersed in the water. In fact, Phillip could not have baptized the eunuch if Phillip was also immersed. Finally, even if this was a baptism by immersion, the verse does not say that baptism by immersion is the only way to baptize.

Acts 9:18; 22:16 - Paul is baptized while standing up in the house of Judas. There is no hot tub or swimming pool for immersion. This demonstrates that Paul was sprinkled.

Acts 10:47-48 - Peter baptized in the house of Cornelius, even though hot tubs and swimming pools were not part of homes. Those in the house had to be sprinkled.

Acts 16:33 - the baptism of the jailer and his household appears to be in the house, so immersion is not possible.

Acts 2:17,18,33 - the pouring of water is like the "pouring" out of the Holy Spirit. Pouring is also called "infusion" (of grace).

1 Cor. 10:2 - Paul says that the Israelites were baptized ("baptizo" in the cloud and in the sea. But they could not have been immersed because Exodus 14:22 and 15:9 say that they went dry shod. Thus, "baptizo" does not mean immersed in these verses.

Titus 3:6 – the “washing of regeneration” (baptism) is “poured out” upon us. This “pouring out” generally refers to the pouring of baptismal waters over the head of the newly baptized.

Heb. 10:22 – the author writes, “with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience.” This “sprinkling” of baptism refers to aspersion, not immersion. The text also parallels 1 Peter 3:21, which expressly mentions baptism and its ability to, like Heb. 10:22, purify the conscience (the interior disposition of a person).

Isaiah 44:3 - the Lord "pours" water on the thirsty land and "pours" His Spirit upon our descendants. The Lord is “pouring,” not “immersing.”


To the 2nd part of your post, I don't think there's anything wrong in her saying that anyone is free to interprete the bible in his/her own way. She not necessarily saying it is right, but she's sayn they have the right to do so and we don't have to impose our interpretation on anyone else.

And you who is so critical of self-interpretation, is that not what you practise? No matter how much we all study the bible, and how much we pray before, during and after we study, we will never come to the same conclusions on everything in the bible and beyond it.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe in self-interpretation. As a Catholic, I follow the interpretation of the Church on all matters of faith and morals because the Church existed before the bible and it is based on the Authority of the Church that we have come to believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God. Even the Bible says the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth.

So, I ask you, whose interpretation do you follow?

italo:
@plappville, lol. Na dis short short questons wey dem ask come bring all dis long long tory. See as everybodi just tire for you. No go dey think say dem no get ansa for u o, dem just read your post and dem no fit determine wetin be d head and wetin b d tail. Still yet u no ansa some of d questions at all, like @what age & what location. Water no be location na, water fit be ocean, lagoon, river, stream, pond, waterfall, tap, drum, bowl, cup, rain, well, canal, shower, reservoir, fountain etc. E fit be all of dis or e fit be some. E fit even be another one wey I no remember to mention.

Any u uself don talk say bible no tell us say make we baptize small small baby dem and e no tell us say make we NO baptize dem. So if you come talk now say make we NO baptize dem, u don add d 1 wey bible no talk b dat o. And na u tell us say make we no add anything put for bible, make we no comot.

As for me when I born pikin, if I fit baptize dat day dat day, na wetin I go do; u fit wait until your pikin grow grey hair, na your wahala b dat. Catholic no kukuma fight u, na una no dey let us rest. Una talk say we dey go hell but una don already dey giv us hell for earth.

plappville:
Those places u mentioned may be that they have imatured muslims, see this good web that tell u what ISLAM REALLY IS. i PAST THIS FOR U JUST TO SCAN THROUGH, HAPPY READ.

[size=16pt]ISLAM MAY BECOME THE
GREATEST MURDERING FORCE
IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND
Islam has replaced the Soviet Union as the Evil Empire
and its "best days" may lie ahead as the forces of Islam gather steam!!![/size]

Immanuelar:
pls cn someone just help me on ao to delete dis thread, pls am beggin!! imagine a ''HUMAN BEING'' saying dat Jesus christ is goin to hell fire!God pls forgiv me!! because i am d cause of all dis by creatin dis thread.nd i beg u in d name of wateva u serve stop dis if u dont want d wrath of God to come upon u, nd cn someone tell me ao to delete dis thread,because its seems der tin as com upon dem.

frosbel:
Which west

Is it the west I live in, I have never met 1 white Muslim in my entire existence here. Please tell me where they are converting let me go and check.

There is the odd girl or boy that might have converted, but it is a LIE to say that whites , Hindus or even Africans in Europe are rapidly converting to ISLAM. It is another LIE that you guys like to perpetuate.

The only reason why ISLAM is incrementally increasing is BIRTH RATE.

Ask any westerner, this is a known FACT.

When you go out for evangelism, almost everyone tells you that they are bornagain. When pple say the prayer of salvation, they just recite and say " I believe Jesus died and rose again".

o9999:
@plappville ,
So please explain to me (if not to others), according to YOUR understanding of the bible

1. at what age should baptism be done
2. at what location should it be down (River, Stream, swiming pool, bowl, etc)
3. In what method (immersion, drowning, sprinkling, touching etc)
4. with what attire (dress code)
5. by who (John the baptist - represented by, , the apostles represented by, , Christ represented by,  etc)
6. in the presence of who?

Finally, just for the sake of it, please which sin is commited when you baptise an infant

1. at what age should baptism be done=

2. at what location should it be down (River, Stream, swiming pool, bowl, etc)= In what method (immersion, drowning, sprinkling, touching etc)=

3. In what method (immersion, drowning, sprinkling, touching etc)=

4. with what attire (dress code)=

5. by who (John the baptist - represented by, , the apostles represented by, , Christ represented by,  etc)=

6. in the presence of who?

[/quote](7) Finally, just for the sake of it, please which sin is commited when you baptise an infant[quote]

kelz88:
I think her beef is with the Catholic church, and not necessarily the age it is done, etc.


Awaiting her response.

italo:
@plappville, since you know better than the Church Jesus founded on the faith of the Apostles 2011 years ago, TELL US!

Oby1:
My dear all I can say is that your argument is baseless. The Catholic church is well rooted, many of your kind has come and gone.  The wind has blown and is still blowing, but the church of God is still growing from strength to strength and why is it still standing because of God's word upon it, "The gate of hell shall not prevail over it" or can't you see it.  If the Church is not from God it would have collapsed long ago like others that have gone.

Please lets channel our strength on the mission God has sent us to do, Go and make disciples of all nation (the soul is more important.

golamike:
@ plappville, God bless you for your effort. You did your homework very well and i sincerely commend you for that.
Some people are of the opinion that we (Christians) should leave these accusations and attacks on ourselves and focus on more important things that would benefit the body of Christ and guarantee our eternity but i must point out that the truth has to be told at the same time. False doctrine is one of the major problems of the Church today and it needs to be addressed. The fact is there's no perfect church, every church has one thing or the other that needs to be corrected or modified through the word of God 2Tim 3:16-17. Christianity should not be practised through indoctrination or force. That your doctrine says something doesn't mean it's right and you have no choice than to adhere. Any doctrine aside from the Doctine of the Word of God should be abolished if we must truly make Heaven. My church also has some doctrines i am seriously against because they have no scriptural bases and every member close to me knows i will never practise such doctrines just because i'm a member of the church or i am forced to believe that. At the same time, i don't have to leave the church because there is no "perfect" church. All we need to do as Christians is to PERSONALLY study God's word and not just read and ask for Holy Spirit's interpretation.
I appeal to my Catholic brethren, (in fact my wife was a Catholic until we got married) i have nothing against them because we are one, but in the name of God don't be obstinate about the Truth of the word of God. Regardless of what you've been taught or told, go into the word of God and confirm such. Do away with what has no scriptural foundation.
Lastly, in my opinion, and from my knowledge of the word of God (i'm still learning though) sprinkling of water instead of immersion in water is NOT baptism. May God help our understanding of His words.

imurboss:
@poster, you ought to have convinced your sister to wait till a bible believing church springs up in her area before baptising her baby or better still you should have convinced her to go out of her area and look for a believing church to do the baptism,as well as your colleague.I'm sure the catholic church did not come and drag your sister from her house to come and baptise her baby.The effort you have made on NL trying to confuse everyone would have been enough to convince these two.Your sister deemed it necessary to do what she has done,it's not as if someone forced it on her- it's her choice.Why not pour the anger on her rather than on the entire church. I think you would have saved yourself alot of stress because no matter how much you say it- what stands still stands! Remove the log from your own eyes first so that you can see clearly to remove the speck from another person's eye.

Oby1:
When the infant is being baptised on which name was he or she baptised on? If it is in the name of God, then I rest my case.  We should be careful as Christian, heaven is not meant for a particular denomination. Only God is the supreme judge of all.

o9999:
The catholic church has its faults and down sides - just like everyother church in the world today,
but i tell you,

if you spend your life looking for a way to condemn what they are doing instead of practicing what this same bibles you quote teach you - which is (in summary)

1. Love for GOD
2. Love for your Neighbour

You will be shocked that these so called catholics (or whatever religion it is) that you condemn may get to the desired destination before you. This may happen only if the bible lies, as far as i know the bible is the true word of GOD, it does not lie, so any church or religion practicing outside its teaching will sure miss it. point of correction, why did u say condem? did i wrote those verses qouted to refute the false doctrine of the catholics?

Dont be too busy telling people the walking style to the bus that you miss the bus. you can limp, run, crawl, swag whatever, just get into the bus before it lives, ,

Oby1:
@poster Irrelevant and blind argument, when the truth is already starring you at the face.  We Christian are missing the track, we should retrace our step.  How many souls have you won for Christ? What do you stand to gain in this? Is that what Christ has called us for? God have mercy.

proo212:
I could be wrong but therein lies the crux of problem.

[b]At the end of time we would not be saved by being a member of a particular church. [/b]Remember, Christ is coming to rapture a church without spot and blemish.

Finally, in one of your earlier posts you told someone that you don't want to be distracted from the topic (infant baptism) when he asked you something about marriage. But you have suddenly turned around to talk about everything: from Mary to repititive prayers to pope etc. Meanwhile I still can't find where you answered my question: who were those baptized in those households and how old were they?

Are you too ashamed and deceptful that you don't want to simply say 'I DONT KNOW'?

If you can't admit that small thing, how do I begin to correct your lies, untruths, half-truths and misconceptions on these other topics. [b]Which do we begin to handle first now. [/b]Why are anti-Catholics fond of bringing up lies and then just when the lies are about to be dispelled by a Catholic, they raise 10more lies without concluding or admitting the first lie, just to ensure that the truth doesn't come to light.

And you say Catholics don't like defending their faith. Well how do you defend a lion in a cage? You just open the cage; it will defend itself.

But even then, what about this Catholic that likes to defend his faith.

Can you face him, one topic after the other?