₦airaland Forum

Ok. I get this but then they had to have some reason to believe that entering the war should end in their favor. Why did they believe that? It's the early forties and everyone had muscle so why did the US feel confident that entering the war would result in their favor?

Well they had no choice but to enter the war, they were attacked at pearl harbor, they had financial interest, and the public supported military response.

As for the war in Europe, i don't think defeat was a real fear for the Americans. The main worry was how many lives victory would cost. Germany had been massively weakend by fighting all of Europe at the same time and defeat at Stalingrad meant their eastern flank was collapsing. All this while the U.S was fresh and morale was high. In addition to this, American military industry was probably the most productive in the world at this point, due to the fact that it wasn't being bombed for the last 5 years.

Ok. I agree with all of this. Now, my curiosity is why the Soviet Union stayed out of the war at first. The UK might have ultimately lost, America might have stayed out and Europe would have fallen completely to Hitler. If that had happened, I find it really curious that Russia should have thought that any treaty would keep her safe from such a giant and powerful neighbor.

If Russia had a chance at all against Germany, shouldn't she have thrown in her lot on England's side to prevent the rise of a powerful empire right at her window? Why didn't she fight sooner?

The Soviets had signed a deals with Germany called the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact and The Secret Protocol. These basically agreed to let the Russians split eastern Europe with the Nazis after the Germans has won the war. They were also going to supply each other with food and heavy equiptment during the fighting

The Russians almost thought of themselves in "cohoots" with the Germans and they were caught completely off guard when Germany attacked. It was such a suicidal move that i don't think anyone could have anticipated it. Keep in mind that is the exact same way Germany lost WWI

fellis: geez. . . .that was uncalled for. . . .
Why do you hate me so much? Is it because I have views that are different from yours?

About the 'm' you said I put in front of my username; yes I did place it there and now that I think about it, I probably shouldn't have done that.
The reason why I did it was because I noticed that a lot of Nairaland men tend to patronise females when they discuss with them and I think this is due to the fact that they think women are inferior to them or not as intelligent as they are and because they have this belief, they do not take women as seriously as they take men and get unnecessarily soft or flirtatous even when you are trying to get a serious reply/comment from them.
I was trying to avoid all that and that was the reason why I put the 'm' there.
But now that I think of it, what I did was wrong and dishonest and I don't have any intention of repeating it.

I don't want to fight you or trade words with you. If you want to reply this post, kindly write only civil words.
Thanks.

All i'm going to say is that the main reason why people like you get patronized is not because of your gender, its because of the way you behave.

You cant expect people to take you seriously when all you can write about is; "What if your mother was this" "what if your sister was that" "what if you were a woman" "oppression" "patriarchy" bla bla bla...

Trust me if Nairaland ladies start discussing issues with logic and not intangible BS the 'patronizing' will end.

scribble: u obviously live in the States, and ur parents or the government pays for ur college. Things are quite different in Nigeria.

I put myself through the last year of 'private' college in Nigeria cos my single mom knew id started making money.
bought a car and an apartment afterwards based on running around for contracts etc, not a 9 to 5.

a 9 to 5 can help u achieve rent etc in America, a lot of times in Nigeria it can't.

So act like u know buddy. Some Nigerian guys are freeloaders anyway and would prefer living with their parents so they dont have to pay for anything and can then buy an expensive car and screw all the girls in Unilag, Ife and OSU. but its a matter of choice.

Nigeria is not like the USA!

How am i supposed to know where the OP lives. how do you know sef?

And neither the government nor parents pay for most American college tuition, most of the gov help is loans. And trust me most American students pay more in school fees than the average Nigerian makes in their life-time.

^ agreed

@ihedinobi This is Winston Churchill's plan to invade Russia it was called Operation unthinkable, Paton was in support of this plan

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/572261/posts

1. How did joining the war help tje issue of debts like you earlier pointed out? I'm not really sure if you meant to reiterate that point with the last sentence in your post.

American companies & the U.S gov were giving the U.K war materials like raw steel etc and money on credit for their war effort. I also assume they were accepting British notes as payment for their services. If Britain fell that would not only mean this money was useless, but that Britain could not pay back the money it owed the United states.

My last post was to explain why the United States was so hesitant to enter the the war militarily. This was because 2 decades earlier, in WW1, the exact same situation occured, but that time the European allies refused to pay their debts. This is partially why the American government was so hesitant to get involved in European affairs during WW2. However, the war financing was mainly done by the private sector, outside of the governments control.

The U.S government could not afford to let its companies loose so much money if the allies fell so they entered the war. (With other reasons of course)

2. I don't think I'm completely right, but I consider that the UK was in a bad way during that war and was pretty close to getting run over by Germany. So I wonder if they belo.g in the list of strong allies. However, we know why they were in the war: they opposed Hitler's bid to annex all of Europe. So she went to war out of both a sense of responsibility and confisence in her strength. And she did so early. I think the USSR joined pretty late, why did she?

I guess you could say that... but an unfairly high burden was placed on the U.K because of the French capitulation so early in the war. While the British were beaten pretty badly in France, they managed to fight back the German Air-force in The battle of Britain holding off the German Advance in the west front. This was very important.

The USSR joined the War because Germany Attacked them. This was despite a treaty the two nations had, and it was Hitler's worst mistake. If he had not attacked the Soviets he would have won the war.

3. Why would the US have felt threatened by the USSR back then especially considering the isolationist policies you mentioned? I base that question on the assumption that it is true indeed that she was advised to attack the Soviet Union. I don't know that it is in fact true.

It was the fear of communism. Every western nation, including germany, was afraid of the threat posed by increased communist influence both domestically and internationally. Keep in mind the west was in a huge world-wide depression and there was a real threat of communism taking hold in the united states itself.

Back then it looked like capitalism would fail, and the status quo wanted to do anything to stop this.

fellis are you trying to deny that you pretended to be male? I caught you red handed with that little blue 'm' pretending you were a dude. Learn to respect yourself before you ask ppl to respect you

ole dusty self-hating feminist

https://www.nairaland.com/910079/ways-modern-men-trained-hate/2

After WW3 Africa will rise again!

Ubenedictus: and who say the japanese wouldnt have beaten the americans if not for the nukes. This time nukes will be matched with nukes

Japan is lucky america used nukes sef... either way they were finished.

[quote author=shy-mmex]The cold war is over, why is America still in the Korean peninsula?? Why can't the yanks look for ways to unite these two countries and let them live in peace?? Heck, they stay conducting military exercises there almost every 2 months - that's not the right thing to do, to be honest...

Honestly, I don't blame North Korea for standing up for itself - however, I don't agree with how NK is going about it...[/quote]General Macarthur wanted to end the Korean war by attacking China with nukes. Aren't you glad they didn't?

America has its hands tied, if it act too aggressivly people like you will demonize it, if it act to passively people demonize it too

Ihedinobi: Shymexx, you wanna sort this out with pleep? I confess that you guys seem to know this stuff really well. So, I'm the student here.

However, do you think that the US waited till late in the war to join just because they saw an opportunity to fight the USSR? Not perhaps because she was attacked and thus pulled into a war she'd wanted to stay out of?

Pleep, that reason of yours assumes that America was certain of winning if she joined. Do you know certainly what the relative strengths of both sides were with all the players involved?

As for the relative power of all the nations; the only strong allies were the U.S, U.K and the Soviet Union. The USSR was the strongest and the United States was well aware of this. General Paton (the head of the American army) even asked the president to spare the weakened Germany and attack the "mongoloid" Russians with nuclear weapons if need be.

The american government refused, and decided to concentrate on germany

By the time the war was over the Soviet military was much larger than Americas and it was clear that there would be a stand off between the two super-powers. When Russia got nukes, it became the cold war. I think the U.S should have attacked Russia when they had the chance.

America waited so long to enter the war because the public was not in support of it, The United States was actually trying to adopt isolationist policies after WW1, where billions of dollars in war debts were never repaid.

[quote author=shy-mmex]You mean the same Syria that's part of the Iran-Syria-Hezbollah axis that both the US and Israel have been trying to break for decades isn't in US' strategic interests anymore, no?? Loooool... The US just can't afford any type of confrontation with the Russians - FACT... When the Russians moved the Navy fleet opposite the yanks in the Mediterranean late last year, the yanks moved out of there...

Which stealth fighters?? - the F-22s with oxygen problems, or the grounded F-35s?? If the Serbs could shoot down American F117 stealth fighter with the obsolete SA-3s - what do you think s-300s, s-400s, and s-500s would do to them??[/quote]Russia needs to hurry up and give Iran those S-400's so Isreal wont attack them and drag us into another war.

That being said the S-400 cannot beat stealth, so while those systems nutralize Isreal the B-2's can still operate freely against them.

Michaeljones36: Yes, in 2013 Germany is the strongest economy in the EU, and Japan is the second largest economy in the world.

Compared to Russia...I'd say they won.

Dude japan is a neutered satelite state that, based on their engenuity, should be the most advanced military in the world right now. Japan should be ordering China around, not siting up there making video games

As for germany, despite what the situation looks like now that was not a victory.... Do you call having your country divided in two and ruled by commies winning?

Calling that a victory is like saying the Europeans won the crusades because they are richer than the muslims now.

^ When you are defending yourself from a foreign invasion anything is a victory...

Do you know hitler planned to turn Russia into a huge farm for the master race? lol

Michaeljones36: Be that as it may...it's 2013 and Russia is still a 'developing nation'.

Japan, Germany, the US, and Western Europe seem to have come out of WWII on the actual winning side.

what kinda comment is this, Germany & japan on the winning side?

Ihedinobi: So why exactly did the Yanks join the war and not limit their aggression to the Japs that attacked them?

Debt, The United States financed the British and French war efforts... And if they let the war run its full course that would have basically extend the great depression indefinitely.

The war ended at Stalingrad... America made the treaty come quicker but the Soviet Union defeated Germany.

Ihedinobi: @pleep (although it could apply to shymexx as well): Are you being sarcastic?

Not at all, after completely annihilating Hitlers 6th army (this army was supposed to defeat all of Russia) The Germans were a lame duck. The Soviet Union was able to move their industrial base into Siberia, free from enemy bombing and basically pump every ounce of their might into the front line.

After Stalingrad the Germans never won another battle on the eastern front.

This thread has really regressed

[quote author=shy-mmex]every sane person knows that the Russians won that war for Europe...[/quote]So true, i thought i was the only one who believed this.

The Russians could have probably taken on Germany alone after the defeat of the 6th army at stalingrad.

Michaeljones36: The US does not rely on F - 15's. That's ridiculous. The US exports all the F - 16's in the world, it's not going to use weaker aircraft in its own fleet.

The US uses F - 18's (it has 500 of them).

A 4th gen jet is a 4th gen jet... Its the armaments that makes the difference.

^ cheaters are disgusting..

SIlknSteel: I love the fact that they have strong shoulders that l can cry on, lean on for support and climb on to rise higher than them

haha nice.

@ topic i like the independence

[quote author=shy-mmex]F-16 = trouble for the rest of the world?

Little Algeria has an air defense system that will shoot down any intruding F-16 with ease...

Don't make me laugh, bro...

Perhaps, trouble for countries like SOmalia, Sudan, and probably 99% of the countries in Africa...[/quote]Did you forget about the 63 b-2 stealth bombers that will destroy all enemy radar and defense systems before the conventional air force engages? The EF-111 raven is a U.S plane that has the sole mission of destroying enemy radar with electric pulses and it successfully crippled the Iraqi air defense with no losses in the gulf war.

Iraq was one of the largest air-forces in the world and was absolutely decimated by America.

As it stands no air defense system can stop the U.S, not even the Russians. Their S 400 systems cannot detect american stealth. Not only are the current bombers equipted with this, but so is the f-22 and the new f-35s will be also (according to the manufacturers)

.

[quote author=shy-mmex]F-15s are obsolete - perhaps you're talking about F-16s - two different fighter jets...

Agreed, only the US has combat ready 5th generation fighter jets... However, the Russians and Chinese have done test flights for Sukhoi PAK FA and Chengdu J-20 respectively - and they should be deployed in the new few years...[/quote]The f-15 is not obsolete, and i can find no info that it is significantly worse than the f-16

But if the f-16 is a better plane than that means more trouble for the rest of the world

With all the delays — full production is not expected until 2019 — the military has spent billions to extend the lives of older fighters and buy more of them to fill the gap. At the same time, the cost to build each F-35 has risen to an average of $137 million from $69 million in 2001.

Winslow T. Wheeler, a former Senate staff member who is one of the plane’s biggest critics, said Friday that the program was still only about 30 percent through its testing. While the crack in the turbine blade may just be a minor flaw, he said, it is unlikely to pose a significant problem to continuing the program. “The Pentagon’s current management is hooked on the airplane and refuses to admit it is a failure,” he said.

These problems are still to be expected on a program this new though.

Now @ the price hike that is just sad, that is only a little bit less than the f-22 cost.

You are right. I was using outdated info

[quote author=shy-mmex]F-15s are obsolete and any new generation fighter jet would destroy the F-15s with ease... They don't even stand a chance against the not-so-impressive UK Tornado fighter jets...

F-22 is a fifth generation fighter jet..[/quote]Yea but there is no 5th generation jet but the f-22, and the U.S never exported any. The Chinese barely managed to clone an f-15 how will they compete with the f-35 when that is ready for active service?

Ok.. but i promise you the f-35 is not in active use the U.S miltary. Those are test flights. Even look at their wiki-pedia article it will say "in development" in the first sentance

I will admit that you never said other wise but your post was misleading. The f-15 is still the official fighter jet the U.S uses with a few f-22 for show

The F-35 is not supposed to see service for a few more years, so the problems are expecatable.

And also remember that the U.S controls all the military sitelites that are used for the GPS guided missles etc.