₦airaland Forum

Desola:
You must have failed woefully in reading and comprehension as you have glaringly displayed your ineptitude grasping the point abut MB.

You sidelined the other parts of the northern region to drive home your lies about the North not being the agricultural power that we all know that they are. And that, my dear, is where you used the MD for reinforcement.

However, as fate would have it, a list has been posted above to show that contrary to your argument that the MB is the northern igr powerhouse, the NW actually trumps all other northern regions!

Another lesson for your uneducated mind is that the North is not in totality, a sharia state so just because the MB is not a sharia region does not discount at as ebing geographically in the north, hence making it Northern!

Kpom!

You must be a new (wo)man in Jerusalem! The only one who does not not that Hausa/Fulani/Kanuri people have next to nothing in common with the Berom, Tiv, Igale, Idoma, Nupe man.

The monolithic North you know has been demystified, thanks to Obj,  Jos Kilings, 2011 elections, among others. Wake up to new reality or wallow in ignorance. Whichever you choose, will not change events on the ground!

alj_harem:
Point B you still have not answered my question  

I guess I was right after all, You people, your leaders and your forefathers Know the truth but only chose to lie.

Isn't it funny how Point B tried to divide the North and kept calling SE/SS union

Lol, how can I divide the North? In which way can I do that?

By attacking the Berom women and children at Night while they are asleep? By attacking communities in South kaduna without provocation? By voting for GEJ instead of Buhari/Ribadu?

Tell me exactly how PointB tried to divided an already divided contraption? Small online character like moi? Please don't ascribe godlike virtues to me, I am a simple mortal!

alj_harem:
excactly, Invitation is good but claiming is bad

if the SE extend it to the SS then good, it is there decision but without invitation and just claiming that it is automatic is just annoying only for them to divide other zones as mid-west and Middle belt

anyway me and my wife Bliss4lfy are watch onto bed.

Bliss4lyf and I would have the final say in this equation

isn't it nywanne bliss4lfy

Ahj Haram,
Stop being a pathetic whining sissy, no one is claiming anyone, everyone know where they stand. Everyone including Sharia North, when kasala burst, everyone will answer his father's name. Enjoy the free lunch while it lasts!

dayokanu:
Can someone sum up IGR per zone?

Definitely the SE is the worst in the South

We just want to know if they are the worst nationwide in terms of IGR

Not entirely correct.

If you look at from from the point of view of total IGR+FAAC per Citizen of the states, SW comes next to the North Zones. Go figure!

Desola:
Yes, you have made the North the case in point but in order to provide a balanced argument it is only fair to compare it to another poor region, ie iboland. I would compare it to the west but there would be a clear disparity.

Isn't it funny that in your sinister nature, you have cut the MB off of the north to score cheap point? Should I in the same vein, remove the ND from the south? Can you tell Olusola Saraki that he is not a northerner or tell Gowon or even Babangida that they are mid beltans and not Northerners? You see why you lot cannot be trusted in this union? You twist the truth to suit your situation. Why are you looking for reinforcement in the middle belt just so as to demean the northerners?  

You mention food crops that are being produced in your region and to that I say: so what? We have all that in the west too but do you produce it in significant amount? Can you produce for export? What is the mass of your arable land? I suspect that erosion hasn't been kind to you there.

Fact is that most region or countries produce crops but are they capable of doing so for a large export?

Lol, Igbo poor? What nonsense won't one hear on Nairaland. Any, if it is on the basis of IGR, it is clearly nonsense talk. IGR is just a function of raising tax, if the SE states refuse over-tax citizens it simply because they dont think it is necessary. I am yet to see an Igbo man begging on the street. So I wont comment further on this Igbo poor argument, it's simply out of ignorance or malice.


As for export of food crops, the last time I checked Nigeria is still a net importer of food, so no one is export food in any quantity to outside the country. However, if it is within the country, then you need to find out what is what is brought from across the Niger daily.


Considering the Middle Belt issue, you are a bundle of contradiction. On one hand you accused me of calling them Middle Belt, next you assumed I was looking for reinforcement in the middle belt? Where exactly do you stand?

For you information, Middle Belts have separate identity from the Sharia North, unless if you haven't learnt anything recently.

And on that point I ask my question, rather more specifically, can Sharia North stand alone?

Bliss4Lyfe:
U forgot Anambra, rich in natural gas, crude oil, bauxite, ceramic and has an almost 100 percent arable soil and the indigenous Orient Petroleum Resource Ltd, completing its first refinery next year. http://nationalmirroronline.net/news/19536.html

Not at all my dear,

Anambra is not only rich in mineral resources but of human resources as a well. Indeed the light of the nation.

I hope those bandying IGR as the only criteria realise that IGR is just a matter of raising tax. And you raise tax when you desperately need to make up for whatever you are currently getting. The question we should also be asking is what is the quality of living - health, education, and other HDI in those so called high IGR states? Imo state with low IGR is giving free basic education to it's citizens , Anambra is debt free, Enugu is a beautiful city.

Now compare any of those States with Oyo, and Osun. You will begin to realise that whatever IGR generated is aimed at bridging the gap in HDI which SE states will lower IGR have been able to master. Imo, Enugu, Anambra, Abia, need not go aggressive on IGR, it makes no sense when there is more than enough.

Desola:
Pointb,

Bobo yii, yara e 'brain, men!

You speak of oil and gas deposit and I tell you to multiply your oil deposit and I'll show you exactly that in Yorubaland.

We are not speaking theories here but practical. I am a pragmatist and can tell you that while you are boasting of some yeye deposit somewhere in your village, the West has it in abundance.

What counts however is what is visible and at the moment, the Hausas are trading and using the man power that you boast of having in the coffers, on their farms! They are living it while you are speaking it.

Now, I ask you again: Can the east stand on its own?

I have not question the ability of the Yoruba to live by themselves, and for the SE, there is no doubt, not even an iota of doubt, that the SE can stand on their own. Various commentators have mentioned landlocked Botswana as a case in point. How much more SE, even without the SS. So shed no tears for SE, as they are more than ready to live on their own.

Sharia North is the focus here. I need not tell you that Middle Belt is not North, so when you talk about agricultural product be specific. Don't forget also that Cassava, Rice, Yam, Oil Palm, Plantain, etc are major food and cash crop produced in the SE. These days, people avoid red meat like plague. Fish is is the main thing, and it can readily be 'produced' in backyards with enough water! So quit yapping about agricultural North the argument doe hold! It is anachronistic!

@Ekt Bear,
An argument can also be made for a breakdown of the over $10 Billion dollars annual remittance by professional abroad. Even without a Zone-by-Zone breakdown, there is no doubt where the bulk of money is coming from, and where they end up.

This will still be available in the event of a split.

ekt_bear:
NL server went down, so this additional comment didn't get posted:


Truth be told, I'm not sure it makes sense to pick on the North alone.

At least judging by IGR #s, the SE is no more viable than the North is.

SE is banking on being able to latch onto oil-rich Rivers State (and I guess possibly also Akwa Ibom).

Without those revenue sources, it'll face the same challenges the North does.


BTW, another thing to keep in mind is that if you do the math, even if all federal allocations to the North disappear tomorrow, assuming a population of roughly ~80 million in northern Nigeria, will "only" need to raise taxes by $42/year per person to make up the difference. Which really shouldn't be that hard to accomplish, yes?

The IGR generated by the SE in not unconnected to long practice of unfavorable government policy of the past. In spite of that, the SE is willing and ready to go alone. I think it's mischievous to discount the large oil and gas deposit in Abia and Imo, and the untapped Coal deposit of Enugu, and of course the Gold deposit of Ebonyi.

But overall, the human resource of the zone remains the biggest potential. So even with zero IGR is SE is primed and ready.

Is the North?

ekt_bear:
For the SW, would need to make up roughly a N175 billion shortfall (would actually be quite a bit less, but let's just use this for now.)

Assuming conservatively a population of 50 million in the SW, this means taxes need to go up by $23 a head. Which I think is dead easy to accomplish.

In a nutshell, the fears of economic disaster after splitting up Nigeria are overstated. We'll all just need to more aggressively raise revenue through taxation (except for the SS and anyone who gets to latch onto them and their oil wealth.)

You have a point. Zik cajoled SW and North to join the union; but Zik is dead and his off spring don't feel welcome in the union, as a matter of fact they believe certain members of the union are not pulling their weight and may actually be dragging the union back. Ziks children may be right or wrong but does that matter? No!

What matters is that Zik children and friends are tired of this union, and when they go what will happen to the children of Bello?
Awo's sons and daughters have shown that they dont care what happened or does not happen, and are very capable of thriving on their own?

Shouldn't we ask Bello's sons and daughter what up? Will they cry like babies, or stand like a man when their milk is pulled off their mouth?

Answers please, not histories and stories. Tangible answers please.

emmke:
^^ u choose ehn? Who do u guys think u are? U want the middle belters in your f**king collabo so that when something goes wrong tomorrow, as it most likely will, u'd blame the middle belters as that's something u guys are good at. U can shove your collabo up your arrogant as.ses. Can u imagine? They'd choose. As if we are some kind of tomatoes on display for sale.

Certainly, a choice will have to be made, it's either you are with team A, team B, or Team C, of course you can form your own team if you so desire. But a choice will have to be made. The earlier you start ruminating about it, the better for you. Don't say you were not warned; there is is a very limited chance stopping a moving train.

So let's say you find yourself as member of Sharia North, how do you propose to run your system of social, political, and economic governance? That's is what this thread is about. Can Sharia North stand alone? How?

dayokanu:
Why cant they stand alone?

That is what we are trying to find out. Instead what we hear is how the SE is not trusted, and how Sharia can be compromised.

What has that got to do with sound economic practice, and political will?

What has those pettiness got to do with who and who will like to be part of a free North?

Will the Berom join them? Where will the Tiv, Nupe, Idoma, Igala go? Will they pitch their tents with Arewa, Odua, or with the SE/SS* alliance

War is out of the equation, it is better not attempted!


*Some parts of SS

namfav:
you obviously dont understand when i said compromise who says that the issue of maiduguri is sanctioned by sharia? they are doing it on there own will, the dont represent sharia law or islam, why is it that you ibo guys tend to act ignorant and try to flame people everywhere? compromise as in sharia is not allowing it on non muslims, most nigerians would not want to  be next to biafra, compared to the nigerians that would mind living next to us (northerners), people dont trust the se, we are living in a age were we can refer ot history

This is not about people trusting the SE or not, by the way trust is not a very popular item in Nigeria market, no one trust the other. So shove your trust down your throat.

The question is how exactly will a Northern enclave be run, without oil money (assuming the SE/SS and their collaborators successful 'steal' the oil).
How will the North live, and what will they do? Thats is the question we need you to answer.

ekt_bear:
Another thing to keep in mind is that probably most of the federal allocation accruing to the North is stolen anyways by some big guys connected to the state governments.

So does it really matter if that small clique doesn't have access to any more money to steal? Will this materially impact the life of your average guy? Probably not.

So isn't quite as bad as some are making out.

I think you have good point here.

If the North can deal effectively with the thieves in their midst, ensuring that their IGR is well utilized for infrastructure development. Will that help?
As per federal allocation, I am assuming a situation where there is no federal allocation (as there will be no federal government) what happens then?

namfav:
poeple will see through you, somehow you will find a way to piss off everyone like in the 1960s
sharia can be compromised in nigeria, biafra no way

Lol, Sharia can be compromised? The same sharia that Boko Haram is killing for claiming that it is already compromised? Sell that idea to the Marines, cos even the Berom and Tiv man will not believe you, let alone far south.

Compromised sharia my back side.

namfav:
have you learnt anything from history, if i were an ibo i will think twice about biafra
who says the north is scared of split?

About Biafra happening again,

Do you think a Berom, Tiv, and Idoma will grant you easy and unfettered access to Biafra?
How do you think the Ijaws will respond to Biafra?
How about the SW?
And the international community - US, UK, France, how do you think they will respond to an 'Islamic aggressor'?

Who do you really think should think twice about Biafra, the SE/SS or you in the [i]sharia [/i]North?

Desola:
See okoro man and wayo o, cleverly writing SS/SE as if they were an entity already. Ole, barawo banza!

The question is: how will the ibos fare if we decide to shoot them back to their eroded villages? How would they fare without attaching themselves to the oil of the ND?

Now, that is the question!

Don't be mischievous,
The SE has oil, gas and goal, but most importantly they have the human resources. And no body is thinking of shooting anyone, least of all SW shooting at Igbos. Besides, it has been concluded here several, that a chunk of the SS are Igbos, and they would gladly join their brethren in an emergent nation.

So the question again, how will the North fare?

namfav:
the north has always stood on its own 2 feet, how did the south stand without the oil? the north was a model, it revolutionized agriculture in the region
you may follow the link
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?6212-Economic-Philosophy-and-Principles-of-Sokoto-Caliphate

it is funny how you people eat your meat with your vegetables, were do you think it comes from? from your backyards?

Fair enough. If the North can stand on it two feet, why are the scare of losing any section of the country? What exactly is the origin of the primordial fear of the north for a split with the south?

olawalebab:
do you think if the country should break up (God forbid), the SS, SE and SW will be together, never. everybody will go their separate way. that is the plain truth

The SE. SS, SW can stand on their own are are ready.
The question here is the north?

Which group (states) do you think can live together in the North, and how will the thrive?

Bawss1:
The North can, by developing its agricultural and tourism industries, stand alone. . .to a reasonable extent. But it appears its leaders have been too blinded by the oil money from the south and so do not have the will to develop themselves.

That's is a good one. It means potentially they can.
But you need to explain the 'reasonable extent'?

Oil money from the south will not be forever, eventually the oil will dry up. What happens then?

Can the North Stand Alone?


It is obvious that every commentator from core Northern part of the country are scare stiff of a divided Nigeria.
Does it mean that the North cannot live on their own, I mean without the SW, SE, and Middle Belt?
Can the North ever dream of living on their own, in Arewa Republic?

Will they go to war to enforce unity if there were to be secession by the SE/SS, or SW?

What role will the Middle belt play in all these. The Berom, the Southern Kaduna, the Tiv/Idoma, the Igala, Nupe, etc?
Will they facilitate or hinder that potential march of the Hausa/Fulani towards the a seceded SE/SS or SW?

Will there even be war if in case of session?



Alj Harem, Namfav, what do you guys have to say?

Well said Asorocker,
don't mind the perpetual whiners.

@Onlytruth, that was necessary and timely too.

^^^
Dayo knows so much about retardeens that one begins to wonder if he had one in his family. Continuous close contacts with retardss can make one an expert on retardeens. No disrespect meant by the way.

over 10000 People died in various sharIa crisis during Obj regime.

Regardless, it will take his whole tenure to write his legacy.

@Ode Remo
Whether I live in Ajegunle or Abuja, Apapa or Port Harcourt, Lagos or Las Vegas is immaterial nobody can experience everything at every place. So you have not point asking where I live unless you have run out of plausible argument.

^^^^
About the best thing u have said so far. Lets compare notes in 3 years.