TenQ:
You said:

This is completely misunderstood !
The Throne of God is surrounded with the 24 Elders in the book of Revelation.

Rev 4:4:
"And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and on the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold."

honesttalk21:


WHO AND WHAT ARE THESE 24 ELDERS?. WHY ARE THEY THERE?

TenQ:


No one knows the exact Identity of the "24 Elders" except that
1. They were reported in the Vision of John given to him by Christ Jesus of things in heaven and on earth past-present and future.
2. The are creatures whose duty is to surround the throne of God and worship Him continually.

They seem to be a special class of heavenly Creatures of God with a duty of worship of God.


If any other thing is confusing you, let us know.

honesttalk21:


It was your submission not mine.

Why do you submit something you yourself don't understand? What is the point of that?

What then is it's relevance?

TenQ:

Do you know the implication of this?

Allah is a physical being with a dimension that can be measured in years of human travel.

Is this not another proof that Allah is localized and a physical being?

honesttalk21:


I can't agree with you here. Just the ear of an angel is 700 years.

Is it the ears used to carry the throne? Mind that there are 8 of such angels. The measure in relation to time is metaphoric so you can understand how far away to him this will be if it will encompass a journey that takes 700yrs *8

Qasim6:


You trinitarians won't cease to amaze.

You can even spot your manmade doctrine from that verse?

Let me help you, smash that trinitarian lenses you are putting on and re-read that verse.

SIRTee15:


Still no response despite 2 evidence of manifestation of God in more one person.

Let me give u 3rd evidence.

Judges 13

20 As the flame blazed up from the altar toward heaven, the angel of the Lord ascended in the flame. Seeing this, Manoah and his wife fell with their faces to the ground. 21 When the angel of the Lord did not show himself again to Manoah and his wife, Manoah realized that it was the angel of the Lord.

22 “We are doomed to die!” he said to his wife. “We have seen God!”

Now the question is why did Manoah- Samson's father realised he saw the angel of the LORD and conclude he's God.
Why would he conclude the angel of the LORD is God.

Qasim6:


My guy stop wasting your time, stop looking for your 3 in 1 God in the Tanakh/ Old testament, it is not there.

You have no leg to stand on.

TenQ:

I gave you what the Bible said about them
1. They surrounded God's throne
2. They worship God endlessly
3. They are heavenly Beings?


Do you think the only creatures of Allah are the Angels, the Jinn, Humans and Animals?

honesttalk21:


Are you sure there aren't other things that surrounds this throne.

Isaiah 6:2 Above him were seraphim, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying. 3 And they were calling to one another:

“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord Almighty;
the whole earth is full of his glory

Are the Seraphim same as the 24 ELDERS?

Qasim6:


My guy stop wasting your time, stop looking for your 3 in 1 God in the Tanakh/ Old testament, it is not there.

You have no leg to stand on.

TenQ:

It seems you. don't know how the Arabs estimate distance in the olden days.

700 years is the distance a person will cover if he walks for this time.
Let me do the computation for you.

Average day walk of a human is 40km.
In one year a person an walk approx 14,400km
In 700 years, the distance is approximately 10,080,000km..


For perspective :
This is approximately 3 times the distance from the earth to the moon.



Where Mohammed got his Arabian night story, only he and Jibril know

Don't forget that this same man said that an angel has 600 wings.


Sahih al-Bukhari 4856
Narrated `Abdullah:
Regarding the Verses: 'And was at a distance of but two bow-lengths or (even) nearer; So did (Allah) convey the Inspiration to His slave (Gabriel) and then he Gabriel) conveyed (that to Muhammad...' (53.9-10) Ibn Mas`ud narrated to us that the Prophet (ﷺ) had seen Gabriel with six hundred wings.


Can't you see that Allah must be extremely big?

TenQ:

Is the highlighted in yellow True?

TenQ:

I gave you what the Bible said about them
1. They surrounded God's throne
2. They worship God endlessly
3. They are heavenly Beings?


Do you think the only creatures of Allah are the Angels, the Jinn, Humans and Animals?

honesttalk21:


Why do you not question the truth of this as you do the other?




The concept of measuring distance by the period of journeys has its origins in the time of the Prophet Muhammad and the early Muslim community. During that era, travel was primarily done on foot, camel, or horse, and distances were often described in terms of how long it would take to travel from one point to another.

Why do you only pick a journey by foot?

Is there anything wrong with conceptualising an extremely Big God?


Do Christians not have a hymn or sing stating they have a very big God who is always by their side?

honesttalk21:


Revelation was the last book to be accepted into the Christian biblical canon, and even at the present day some Nestorian churches reject it. It was tainted because the heretical sect of the Montanists relied on it and doubts were raised over its Jewishness and authorship, and it was not until 419 that it was included in the canon.

The compilation of the Canon clearly shows how Christians choose what of revelation they accept and what they reject?

In any case this is probably in order as you have stated the Bible is a compilation of different books written by different authors. Perhaps some were not truly divinely inspired?

honesttalk21:


There are indeed different types of angels some of which are perpetually and eternally engaged in worship.

I do not liken these to the Seraphim or Cherubim


1. How little in comparison is the knowledge of man about anything in comparison to God? Have all animals been known by mankind?

How much of the animals of the deeper ends of the sea or oceans does man know?

TenQ:

So, why do you bother with the 24 Elders or the Cherubims and Seraphims?

God did not only make Animals, Jinn, Angels and Humans : there ore other creatures He made

TenQ:

I am agreeing with you dear. We don't have a hymn like that o. It's a chorus!

The only problem of Mohammed was that he wasn't just conceptualising Allah, he was putting actual figures to it

Did I not just say that Allah must be extremely big.

If there are with Angels that carry the throne of Allah and the distance between their ears is about 10 million kilometres, it means that Allah's throne would be at least six times the width (approximately 60 million kilometres). We can estimate Allah's throne to be at least 120million kilometres high.


Do you perfectly agree with me on this that Allah is extremely big ?







Unfortunately, the fact that neither Allah nor Mohammed knew this is a puzzly that only modern Muslims can answer.

You seem better in knowledge than both of them.

honesttalk21:


You are extremely limiting.

Allah can be big, small, tiny and all you can imagine but more importantly beyond the conception of mankinds thinking.

Nothing can be compared to Allah!

honesttalk21:


Cherubim and seraphim are not angels.

Cherubim and seraphim are often mistakenly categorized as angels, but in actuality, they are separate entities within the celestial hierarchy. Cherubim are described as winged creatures with multiple faces and are often depicted as guardians of sacred spaces in religious texts. Seraphim, on the other hand, are described as fiery beings with multiple wings who continuously praise and worship God. While angels also serve as messengers of God and carry out his will, cherubim and seraphim have a different purpose and function within the spiritual realm. It is important to recognize and appreciate the distinctions between these celestial beings

TenQ:
Are you saying that Allah has many shapes?

Why do you contemporary Muslims attempt to reinvent Islam differently from the Islam of Mohammed?

Are you afraid of the limitations?

Nothing can be compared with an amoeba!


Is it true according to Mohammed that Adam was created in the image of Allah?

Is this not a basis of reference?

TenQ:

Tell me when and where Mohammed said this?

Just one reference would be okay.


Do you see why I said that you contemporary Muslims are reinventing Islam!

Who was the Islamic prophet that told you this?


Your Problem:
You don't even know what the term Angel mean.

honesttalk21:
Allah is the pivot of the Muslim faith. The Qurʾān stresses above all Allah’s singularity and sole sovereignty, a doctrinal tenet indicated by the Arabic term tawḥīd (“oneness”). He never sleeps or tires, and, while transcendent, he perceives and reacts to everything in every place through the omnipresence of his divine knowledge. He creates ex nihilo and is in no need of a consort, nor does he have offspring. Three themes preponderate in the Qurʾān:
(1) Allah is the Creator, Judge, and Rewarder; (2) he is unique (wāḥid) and inherently one (aḥad); and
(3) he is omnipotent and all-merciful. Allah is the “Lord of the Worlds,” the Most High; “nothing is like unto him,” and this in itself is to the believer a request to adore Allah as the Protector and to glorify his powers of compassion and forgiveness.


Allah Almighty is One, there is nothing like Him, there is nothing that can overwhelm Him, there is no god besides Him and He is Eternal without a beginning and Enduring without end. He will neither perish nor come to an end and nothing happens except what He wills. No imagination can conceive of Him and no understanding can comprehend Him. He is different from any created being.

Allah Most High says about Himself:

“There is nothing whatever unto like Him.” (al-Shura, 42:11).

لَيْسَ كَمِثْلِهِۦ شَىْءٌۖ
There is nothing like him

honesttalk21:


Why will it be Prophet Muhammad pbuh saying Cherubim and Seraphim are not angels?

The big surprise here is that cherubim, in the Bible, are not said to be angels. People assume that cherubs are angels, but when we look for proof, none can be found.

honesttalk21:


The phrase “in His image” is often interpreted in different ways by scholars. Some suggest that it implies Adam’s honor and great status, while others propose that it relates to specific physical or spiritual similarities. However, it is essential to understand that Allah does not have a physical body or form, as He is not like His creation.

TenQ:

Your Problem:
You don't even know what the term Angel mean. Do you?

TenQ:

Your Problem:
You don't even know what the term Angel mean. Do you?

TenQ:

Let's look at what Mohammed said:

Mishkat al-Masabih 3525
He reported God’s Messenger as saying, “When any of you fights he must avoid the face, for God created Adam in His own image.”

Are you saying that Allah and his messanger don't know best again?


Khai!
Reinvent Islam all you want but Mohammed couldn't stop talking.

TenQ:

Repeating what you think Allah is doesn't change the fact that he is perpetually trapped on the earth chasing Muslims praying to him at the third part of the night.

If Allah truly descend to the lowest heaven, his oneness prevent him to be simultaneously above the heavens.

Allah's onesnss is not different from. the oneness of Iblis who cannot be everywhere at the same time.

So, my brother. Reinventing Allah to the status of the Creator does not make him one.

Allah claimed he made Adam and Jesus with the word "BE"!
But both of these cases are completely UNTRUE!

Did Allah create Adam by BE!?
Did Allah create Jesus by BE!?

honesttalk21: