TenQ:

You still do get the implication.

1. Mohammed and Allah do not know that the earth is spherical
2. Allah is perpetually trapped on the lowest heaven and thus cannot return to paradise

TenQ:

You have already concurred with the hadith. and it's implications

1. Mohammed was lieing as usual
2. Allah is perpetually trapped here on earth
3. Allah can enter his creation
4. Allah and his prophet doesn't know that the earth is not flat but spherical

TenQ:

You still do get the implication.

1. Mohammed and Allah do not know that the earth is spherical
2. Allah is perpetually trapped on the lowest heaven and thus cannot return to paradise

TenQ:
The Flaws In The Taoheed (doctrine Of Oneness Of Allah) Destroys Allah As God


The fundamental doctrine of Islam is the Taoheed meaning: The Oneness of Allah.

Unfortunately, inasmuch as M
uslims would like to grandrously magnify Allah and make him the same as the God of the people of the Book, they unfortunately limit him unknowingly.
As a rule, Islam ALWAYS BREAK down with scrutiny. And this is why Muslims hardly ask questions.

You will all see that a little examination of Islamic doctrine expose the weakness of the Taoheed. Taoheed makes Allah a limited God because of these claims of Islam below.

Claims of Islam :
1. Allah is on his throne upon the waters above the seven heavens.

2. Allah descend everyday to the lowest heaven at the third part of the night to listen to the supplications of the Muslims
3. Muslims will SEE Allah with their eyes on the Day of judgement

4. Allah will appear to the Muslims and will change his shape to. another form on the Day of resurrection to a form unknown to the Muslims (Muslims will be in disbelief until until they see the shin of Allah)

5. Allah cannot enter into his creation because he is too big for that

If ALL these are true, then
1. If Allah is above the seven heavens (which is also all above the earth), Allah cannot be omnipresent.
It is logically impossible for Allah to be above the heavens and below it at the same time.

2. If Allah descend to the lowest heaven everyday at the third part of the night to listen to the supplications of the Muslims, then Allah cannot be omniscient.
It is either that Allah is not knowledgeable that the earth is not flat but spherical (thus Allah is trapped forever on the earth) and it is thus impossible for Allah to be on his throne above the heavens at the same time

3. If Muslims will see Allah with their eyes on the Day of judgement, it means that Allah is finite both in scope and size. Moreover, Allah is NOT a spirit according to Islamic scholars, thus Allah is a physical being.

4. If Allah changes his shape to the Muslims, then this proves that the shape of Allah is created. If not, can any Muslim tell us what happened to the original shape of Allah when he appeared to you in a different shape. Obviously, the first shape not the second shape of Allah are not eternal. There is no Islamic doctrine that Allah is shapeless

5. If Allah is too big to enter his creation, how come he managed to pass through the layers of heaven to the lowest heavens in order to listen to the supplications of the Muslims at the third part of the night?
6. Of course, there is no dispute that Allah is One but then, What is the difference between the Oneness of Allah and the Oneness of Iblis (satan)? If there is no difference apart from difference in assigned attributes, then there is NOTHING special about the Taoheed of Allah.


Of course, except if ALL these claims of Muslims about Allah is FABRICATED as usual

Questions;
1. Can Allah be Above the seven heavens and be below it at the same time?
2. If it is true that Allah descends every third part of the night to the lowest heavens, doe it not mean that Allah is perpetually on earth?
3. If Muslims will see Allah physically in paradise, does it not show that Allah is limited?
4. If it is true that Allah will change his shape when he appears to Muslims in paradise, what happens to Allah's first shape?
5. If Allah is too big to enter into his creation, how then does he descend from his throne to the lowest heaven?
6. What is special with Taoheed of Allah since we know that Iblis is also one and unique?


References are included next page!


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Expanse2020:

You show proof that he got stuck rather running your mouth
You should show us proof instead of ranting

Expanse2020:

Show us where you see the proof all these nonsense you spew out
Show us where Allah enter his creation like your God Yahweh the pagan idol🤣🤣🤣
Mumu show us where Quran disproof that earth is sphere


Your God was killed by mere human being, mere jew

honesttalk21:


Tauhid is an Arabic term that translates to “monotheism” in English. In Islamic theology, توحيد refers to the belief in the oneness of God, emphasizing the absolute unity and uniqueness of Allah. It is considered the most fundamental concept in Islam and is often described as the cornerstone of the faith.

Islamic monotheism encompasses three main aspects:
(Tawhid al-Rububiyyah): This aspect of emphasizes the belief in the oneness of Allah’s lordship. It acknowledges that Allah is the sole creator, sustainer, and provider of everything in the universe.


(Tawhid al-Uluhiyyah): This aspect focuses on the worship of Allah alone. It entails dedicating all acts of worship, such as prayer, supplication, and devotion, exclusively to Allah without associating any partners with Him.


(Tawhid al-Asma’ wa’l-Sifat): This aspect relates to affirming and maintaining the uniqueness of Allah’s names and attributes. It involves understanding and acknowledging the divine qualities of Allah as described in the Quran and Sunnah.

The concept of Tawhid is central to Islamic belief and practice, guiding Muslims in their relationship with Allah and shaping their worldview based on the principles of monotheism.


Tauhid, the Islamic concept of the oneness of God, is a fundamental belief in Islam. The Quran, the holy book of Islam, contains numerous verses that emphasize the concept of Tauhid. Here are some examples of Quranic verses that support Tauhid:

Surah Al-Ikhlas (Chapter 112): This chapter is often referred to as “The Sincerity” and is considered one of the most concise expressions of Tauhid in the Quran. It states that Allah is One, without any partners, children, or equals.

Surah Al-Baqarah (Chapter 2), Verse 163: “And your god is one God. There is no deity [worthy of worship] except Him, the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful.” This verse emphasizes the oneness of God and rejects the idea of associating partners with Him.

Surah Al-An’am (Chapter 6), Verse 19: “Say, ‘What thing is greatest in testimony?’ Say, ‘Allah is witness between me and you. And this Qur’an was revealed to me that I may warn you thereby and whomever it reaches.’” This verse highlights the belief in Allah as the ultimate witness and source of guidance.

Surah Al-An’am (Chapter 6), Verse 101: “He is the Originator of the heavens and the earth. How could He have a son when He does not have a companion and He created all things? And He is, of all things, Knowing.” This verse refutes the idea of God having offspring or partners.

Surah Al-An’am (Chapter 6), Verse 164: “Say, ‘Is it other than Allah I should desire as a lord while He is the Lord of all things? And every soul earns not [blame] except against itself, and no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return, and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ.’” This verse reinforces the belief in Allah as the ultimate authority and Lord.

honesttalk21:
Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning): “And He it is Who has created the heavens and the earth in six Days and His Throne was on the water, that He might try you, which of you is the best in deeds” [Hood 11:7].

This is a statement by Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, that His Throne was above the water before He created the heavens and earth and what is in them. Qataadah said: Your Lord, may He be blessed and exalted, is telling you how His creation began before He created the heavens and the earth.

Tafseer al-Tabari, 15/246

Al-Bukhaari (2953) narrated from ‘Imraan ibn Husayn (may Allah be pleased with him) that some of the people of Yemen asked the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) this and said: We have come to you to ask you about this matter. He said: “There was Allah, and there was nothing else besides Him, and His Throne was over the water. He wrote all things in the Book (in heaven) and He created the heavens and the earth.”

Both the verse and the hadeeth are speaking of the beginning of creation, and say that the Throne of Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, was over the water before the creation of heaven and earth.

This does not mean that the Throne is not still over the water.

Al-Bukhaari (6869) and Muslim (1659) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) said: “The Right Hand of Allaah is full and (its fullness) is not decreased by any spending; it is overflowing by night and day. Think of what He has spent since He created the heavens and the earth, but all this spending had not decreased what is in His Right Hand.” He said: “And his Throne is over the water, and in His other Hand is the power to bring about death, and He raises some people and brings other low.”

Al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar (may Allah have mercy on him) said: In the report of Ishaaq ibn Raahawayh it says “and the Throne is over the water.” The apparent meaning is that it was like that when the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) spoke these words. The apparent meaning of the hadeeth which comes before it is that the Throne was over the water before the creation of the heavens and earth, and the two hadeeth when taken together indicate that it is still over the water.

Fath al-Baari, 20/496

The meaning of the word kaana (was) in the verse refers to what happened in the past, before the creation of the heavens and the earth. From his saying in the other hadeeth, “His Throne is over the water,” it may be understood that it is still like that.

TenQ:


It seems that your argument here is that the throne of Allah is no more above the waters.

honesttalk21:


This does not mean that the Throne is not still over the water.

Al-Bukhaari (6869) and Muslim (1659) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) said: “The Right Hand of Allaah is full and (its fullness) is not decreased by any spending; it is overflowing by night and day. Think of what He has spent since He created the heavens and the earth, but all this spending had not decreased what is in His Right Hand.” He said: “And his Throne is over the water, and in His other Hand is the power to bring about death, and He raises some people and brings other low.”

Al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar (may Allah have mercy on him) said: In the report of Ishaaq ibn Raahawayh it says “and the Throne is over the water.” The apparent meaning is that it was like that when the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) spoke these words. The apparent meaning of the hadeeth which comes before it is that the Throne was over the water before the creation of the heavens and earth, and the two hadeeth when taken together indicate that it is still over the water.

TenQ:

You are displaying symptoms of mental pain and anguish because intellectually, Allah and Mohammed had let you down.

Sorry, except the earth is not spherical then you have a way out of this quicksand, other wise, you are living a lie called Islam.


The Islamic Mantra still remains :
Don't confuse me with the Truth because I have already made up my mind!

TenQ:

I do not dispute against your doctrine of Taoheed at all as, I agree with everything you have said. Only that, you also need to accept the IMPLICATIONS of Taoheed.

1. Iblis is also One (in the strict sense of it) : therefore, the Oneness of Allah (apart that he is supposed to be the creator and suatainer of life and everything) is NOT exclusive to Allah. Even you are One in this strict sense.

2a. The Oneness of Allah makes it impossible to be on his throne in paradise AND also anywhere else in the Universe. The Hadith of Allah daily descending to the lowest heaven at the third part of the night is a good evidence to attest this.
Thus, Allah cannot be Omnipresent!

b. Meaning that if the hadith is true, then Allah if forever and perpetually trapped in the lowest heaven as there are ALWAYS regions on earth that are at the third part of the night.

c. Except of cause that the Hadith is Fabricated (Maudu). But it seems you and your scholars insist its true. Thus Allah is perpetually and permanently trapped here on earth and his Oneness makes his throne vacant in paradise.

3. This was why Mohammed could not answer the Question of the Spirit and why it must be Jibril who is sent down to give messages to Mohammed unlike the true prophets of God before him.

4. There are still other issues like:
Is it true that Allah's throne is carried by eight angels?

Is it true that you Muslims will physically see Allah on the Day of judgement?

Does Allah enter into his Creation?

These three statements above if true shows that Allah is very Limited.

Is the hadith of Allah coming down every day at the third part of the night to hear you Muslims pray true?

TenQ:

You are displaying symptoms of mental pain and anguish because intellectually, Allah and Mohammed had let you down.

Sorry, except the earth is not spherical then you have a way out of this quicksand, other wise, you are living a lie called Islam.


The Islamic Mantra still remains :
Don't confuse me with the Truth because I have already made up my mind!

honesttalk21:

honesttalk21:
Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning): “And He it is Who has created the heavens and the earth in six Days and His Throne was on the water, that He might try you, which of you is the best in deeds” [Hood 11:7].

This is a statement by Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, that His Throne was above the water before He created the heavens and earth and what is in them. Qataadah said: Your Lord, may He be blessed and exalted, is telling you how His creation began before He created the heavens and the earth.

Tafseer al-Tabari, 15/246

Al-Bukhaari (2953) narrated from ‘Imraan ibn Husayn (may Allah be pleased with him) that some of the people of Yemen asked the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) this and said: We have come to you to ask you about this matter. He said: “There was Allah, and there was nothing else besides Him, and His Throne was over the water. He wrote all things in the Book (in heaven) and He created the heavens and the earth.”

Both the verse and the hadeeth are speaking of the beginning of creation, and say that the Throne of Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, was over the water before the creation of heaven and earth.

This does not mean that the Throne is not still over the water.

Al-Bukhaari (6869) and Muslim (1659) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) said: “The Right Hand of Allaah is full and (its fullness) is not decreased by any spending; it is overflowing by night and day. Think of what He has spent since He created the heavens and the earth, but all this spending had not decreased what is in His Right Hand.” He said: “And his Throne is over the water, and in His other Hand is the power to bring about death, and He raises some people and brings other low.”

Al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar (may Allah have mercy on him) said: In the report of Ishaaq ibn Raahawayh it says “and the Throne is over the water.” The apparent meaning is that it was like that when the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) spoke these words. The apparent meaning of the hadeeth which comes before it is that the Throne was over the water before the creation of the heavens and earth, and the two hadeeth when taken together indicate that it is still over the water.

Fath al-Baari, 20/496

The meaning of the word kaana (was) in the verse refers to what happened in the past, before the creation of the heavens and the earth. From his saying in the other hadeeth, “His Throne is over the water,” it may be understood that it is still like that.

honesttalk21:



Sadly you limit the majesty of the almighty.

Iblis that you compare Allah to does and did not create anything or did he?

TenQ:

I do not dispute against your doctrine of Taoheed at all as, I agree with everything you have said. Only that, you also need to accept the IMPLICATIONS of Taoheed.

1. Iblis is also One (in the strict sense of it) : therefore, the Oneness of Allah (apart that he is supposed to be the creator and suatainer of life and everything) is NOT exclusive to Allah. Even you are One in this strict sense.
......

Expanse2020:

You should show us where Allah says it is flat stop spew nonsense say it out

Expanse2020:

AFTER THEY DISPROOF YOU AND LECTURE YOU AROUND TO KNOW THAT THE EARTH IS SPHERICAL YOU ARE NOW ADAMANT ON IT
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
MUMU MAN believe that the earth is flat he will argued if I didn't bring his caption out

TenQ:

I did not limit the majesty of Allah o!

I said:


I only said that in terms of Taoheed, Allah is one just as Iblis is one.

And my question is:
What then is unique with being One.
(I did not ask about what is unique with being the Creator)

After all, the Messiah is one, Jibril is One, Prophet Mohammed is one, the sun is one, Dhul qarnayn is one, etc

TenQ:

Here was what you said with my highlights



This was why I said:
It seems that your argument here is that the throne of Allah is no more above the waters.
As you argument seemed to say that Allah's throne was above the waters only before creation.


Not withstanding :
I think it is clear that Allah is on his throne that is upon the waters AND both the throne and water are above the seven heavens


Do you agree with this?

honesttalk21:


The peculiarity of Allah’s uniqueness lies in the fact that Allah is one, indivisible, and unique in all his attributes.

By affirming the oneness and uniqueness of Allah, Muslims express their faith in the transcendence and majesty of God, and they acknowledge their dependence on him as the sole creator and sustainer of the universe.

honesttalk21:


The throne represents Allah’s sovereignty over all of creation, while others have seen it as a symbol of His transcendence beyond human understanding. Still others have interpreted it as a literal description of Allah’s physical location in the universe.

Regardless of interpretation, however, it is clear that the concept of Allah’s throne holds great significance in Islamic tradition. It represents a powerful image of divine power and majesty, one that inspires reverence and awe in those who contemplate it.

Allah is above His heavens over His Throne (as befits His Majesty), and that He is the Exalted, Most High. He is above all things, and there is nothing that is above Him. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning):

Allah, it is He Who has created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them in six days. Then He rose over (istawa) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty). You (mankind) have none, besides Him, as a Wali (protector or helper) or an intercessor. Will you not then remember (or receive admonition)?} [As-Sajdah 32:4]

honesttalk21:
To some point yes.

The throne of Allah isn't just a king's seat or chair

TenQ:

But don't angels of Allah carry his throne?

Qur'an 40:7
The bearers of the Throne, and those around it, sing the praises of their Lord and believe in Him, and seek forgiveness for those who believe: "O our Lord, Your mercy and knowledge embrace everything; so forgive those who turn to You in repentance and follow Your path; and preserve them from the torment of Hell.


Qur'an 69:17
And the angels will be on its sides, and eight will, that Day, bear the Throne of thy Lord above them.



Meaning that the throne of Allah is not imaginary : it is a real throne!

The Bible also describes God as sitting on a throne, but it does not imply that God is stationary or limited in any way.

honesttalk21:


In many of the Riwaya, it says Arsh is the knowledge of God.

• The measurement and the destiny of the creation are made there.

• All measures proceed from thee through the angels who live there.

• This is what Allama says is the meaning of the verse in Surah Hadid;

“He knows what comes down from the heavens to the earth and whatever goes up from it to the heavens.”(57:4)
• Arsh is that category of knowledge of God in which the measurement of the whole creation is already worked and out and proceeds from.

• Everything is inside the Arsh.

• Some say that there is an Arsh somewhere in the heavens but it is incorrect.

• It is there before, and after the creations.

• Everything was on water before it.

• Everything is just between them.

• Every part and particle would cry to praise Him after the final judgment and then all angels will come back and carry the Arsh.

• This is what Allama Tabatabai says; “Completely in conformity with the explanations by the Imams”

Interpretation of Quran 40:7 and the Concept of a Non-Stagnant Throne

The interpretation of Quran 40:7 is a topic that has sparked much discussion and debate among scholars and believers alike. The verse in question states:

“Allah, it is He who has created the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them in six Days. Then He established Himself above the Throne.“ (Quran 40:7)

Some interpretations of this verse suggest that the phrase “established Himself above the Throne” implies a stagnant or stationary image of Allah, while others argue that this interpretation is not only incorrect but also misleading.

To understand the true meaning of this verse, one must consider the context in which it was revealed. The Quran is a divine revelation that was given to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) over a period of 23 years. Each verse of the Quran is rich in meaning and significance, and understanding its full context requires a deep knowledge of Arabic language, Islamic history, and the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

Regarding the verse in question, many scholars have pointed out that the Arabic word used for “established” in this verse is “istawa,” which can have several meanings, including “to ascend,” “to rise,” or “to be established.” This word does not necessarily imply a stagnant or stationary position, but rather a position of power and control.

Moreover, some scholars have argued that the concept of a stagnant throne is inconsistent with the attributes of Allah as described in the Quran. Allah is described as being all-knowing, all-powerful, and ever-present. The idea of a stagnant throne contradicts these attributes, as it implies a limited or stationary position.

Additionally, many scholars have pointed out that the concept of a stagnant throne is not unique to Islam. In fact, this concept appears in many other religious traditions, including Christianity and Judaism. The Bible also describes God as sitting on a throne, but it does not imply that God is stationary or limited in any way.

In conclusion, while some interpretations of Quran 40:7 may suggest a stagnant throne, this interpretation is not only incorrect but also misleading. The true meaning of this verse requires a deep understanding of Arabic language, Islamic history, and the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). The word “istawa” used in this verse can have several meanings, including “to ascend,” “to rise,” or “to be established,” which does not necessarily imply a stagnant or stationary position. Furthermore, the concept of a stagnant throne is inconsistent with the attributes of Allah as described in the Quran and appears in many other religious traditions as well.

honesttalk21:

... Allah, it is He Who has created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them in six days. Then He rose over (istawa) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty)......

TenQ:
You said:

This is completely misunderstood !
The Throne of God is surrounded with the 24 Elders in the book of Revelation.

Rev 4:4:
"And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and on the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold."


Because of Trinity, the Father can be in Heaven, the Word can be on Earth and the Holy Spirit Everywhere in time and space in all realms (physical or spiritual).


Unfortunately, I will rather take the direct explanation of your prophet Mohammed over that of any other person except Mohammed said NOTHING about the issue.

You have tried to avoid the literal meaning of the Throne of Allah with the following arguments.

1. Arsh is the knowledge of God.
2. Arsh is a position of power and control

Let me ask you this question

Can the knowledge of God or his position of power be carried by Angels?


Secondly,
You said :


Does it make sense that Allah rise over his knowledge and his position of power?




Reference:
Qur'an 40:7
The bearers of the Throne, and those around it, sing the praises of their Lord and believe in Him, and seek forgiveness for those who believe: "O our Lord, Your mercy and knowledge embrace everything; so forgive those who turn to You in repentance and follow Your path; and preserve them from the torment of Hell.


Qur'an 69:17
And the angels will be on its sides, and eight will, that Day, bear the Throne of thy Lord above them.


These below is Mohammed's explanation :

Sunan Abi Dawud 4727
Jabir b. ‘Abd Allah reported the Prophet (May peace be upon him) as saying :
I have been permitted to tell about one of Allah’s angels who bears the throne that the distance between the lobe of his ear and his shoulder is a journey of seven hundred years.

Sahih Muslim 2229 a
'Abdullah. Ibn 'Abbas reported:

A person from the Ansar who was amongst the Companions of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) reported to me: As we were sitting during the night with Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), a meteor shot gave a dazzling light. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: What did you say in the pre-Islamic days when there was such a shot (of meteor)? They said: Allah and His Messenger know best (the actual position), but we, however, used to say that that very night a great man had been born and a great man had died, whereupon Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: (These meteors) are shot neither at the death of anyone nor on the birth of anyone. Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, issues Command when He decides to do a thing. Then (the Angels) supporting the Throne sing His glory, then sing the dwellers of heaven who are near to them until this glory of God reaches them who are in the heaven of this world. Then those who are near the supporters of the Throne ask these supporters of the Throne: What your Lord has said? And they accordingly inform them what He says. Then the dwellers of heaven seek information from them until this information reaches the heaven of the world. In this process of transmission (the jinn snatches) what he manages to overhear and he carries it to his friends. And when the Angels see the jinn they attack them with meteors. If they narrate only which they manage to snatch that is correct but they alloy it with lies and make additions to it.


Sunan Abi Dawud 5078
Narrated Anas ibn Malik:
The Prophet (ﷺ) said: If anyone says in the morning: "O Allah! in the morning we call Thee, the bearers of Thy Throne, Thy angels, and all Thy creatures to witness that Thou art Allah than Whom there is no god, Thou being alone and without a partner, and that Muhammad is Thy servant and Thy Apostle," Allah will forgive him any sins that he commits that day; and if he repeats them in the evening. Allah will forgive him any sins he commits that night.

Mishkat al-Masabih 2398
Anas reported God's messenger as saying that if anyone says in the morning, “O God, in the morning we call Thee, the bearers of Thy Throne, Thy angels and all Thy creatures to witness that Thou art God than whom alone there is no god, being without a partner, and that Muhammad is Thy servant and messenger,” God will forgive him any sins he commits that day; and if he says it in the evening, God will forgive him any sins he commits that night.

You can see how literally Mohammed interpreted Arsh of Allah!



Can the knowledge of God or his position of power be carried by Angels?



Does it make sense that Allah rise over his knowledge and his position of power?

honesttalk21:


The significance of “Arsh Allah” in Islamic teachings cannot be overstated. It represents the ultimate reality and truth of the universe, which is the oneness and uniqueness of Allah. By contemplating the magnificence and grandeur of the throne, Muslims are reminded of the greatness and power of Allah, which inspires them to submit to His will and to strive for righteousness in their lives.

The description of “Arsh Allah” in Islamic literature is often vivid and awe-inspiring. It is said that the throne is made of pure light and that it is surrounded by angels who are constantly glorifying and praising Allah. The throne is also described as being vast and expansive, encompassing all of creation. Some scholars have even suggested that the throne is so large that it encompasses the entire universe, including all of its dimensions and realities.

Why do you derive your understanding of Islam mostly from hadith and not the Quran without extensive understanding of the arabic language as well as the multiple word meaning and nuances therein?

What is the nature, essence and function of the 24 elders you mention? Is your God restricted to the throne?

TenQ:

You are just repeating yourself without recourse to the questionsI asked you in negating your preferred Narrative

1. Can the knowledge of God or his position of power be carried by Angels?
2. Does it make sense that Allah rise over his knowledge and his position of power?

I use the hadith because Mohammed is the BEST interpreter of the meaning of the Qur'an.

If you wish, we can go to some tafsirs to show that the throne of Allah is literal and fixed above be the waters upon the seventh heaven.


1. Tafsir Qur'an 23.84-90 Kathir - Ibn Al Kathir
... The Throne combines the features of height and vastness with splendor and magnificence. This is why it was said that it is made of red rubies. Ibn Mas`ud said, "There is no night or day with your Lord, and the light of the Throne is from the Light of His Face.''...

2. Tafsir Qur'an 10.3 Kathir - Ibn Al Kathir
..
"Like these days (meaning our worldly days).'' It was also said: "Every day is like a thousand years of what we reckon.'' Later, this will be discussed further (and then rose over (Istawa) the Throne.)'' The Throne is the greatest of the creatures and is like a ceiling for them. Allah's statement:

3. Tafsir Qur'an 36.37-40 Kathir - Ibn Al Kathir
... (The first view) is that it refers to its fixed course of location, which is beneath the Throne, beyond the earth in that direction. Wherever it goes, it is beneath the Throne, it and all of creation, because the Throne is the roof of creation and it is not a sphere as many astronomers claim. Rather it is a dome supported by legs or pillars, carried by the angels, and it is above the universe , above the heads of people...


4. Tafsir Qur'an 4.172 Abbas - Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs
(The Messiah will never scorn to be a slave unto Allah) he will never not acknowledge his servitude to Allah. This was revealed in respect of the Christians saying to the Prophet: “O Muhammad, what you say of Jesus is shameful”. Allah said to them: it is not shameful that Jesus be the servant of Allah, (nor will the favoured angels) nor would the favoured angels, the carriers of the Throne, ever not acknowledge that they are servants of Allah. (Whoso scorneth His service) whoever scorns to acknowledge that being his servant (and is proud) is too proud to believe in Allah, (all such) believers and unbelievers (will He assemble unto Him) on the Day of Judgement.


5. Tafsir Qur'an 40.7 Abbas - Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs
(Those who bear the Throne) of the Beneficent, who are a tenth of the angel carriers, (and all who are round about it) of the angels, (hymn the praises of their Lord) hymn by the command of their Lord (and believe in Him) while believing in Allah (and ask forgiveness) and pray (for those who believe) in Muhammad (pbuh) and in the Qur'an ((saying): Our Lord!) O our Lord! (Thou comprehendest all things in mercy) You filled all things with blessings (and knowledge) and You know all things, (therefore forgive those who repent) from idolatry (and follow Your way) Your religion: Islam. (Ward off from them the punishment of hell) drive away from them the torment of the Fire.


I sure that you can see that the throne of Allah is fixed by the Evidences of your Prophet which is higher than that of any Muslims.

honesttalk21:


We will continue after you have been able to exhaust each and every Tafsir that exists

honesttalk21:


We will continue after you have been able to exhaust each and every Tafsir that exists.

It was narrated from Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

“I have been granted permission to speak about one of the angels of Allaah, one of the bearers of the Throne. The space between his earlobes and his shoulders is the distance of seven hundred years’ travelling.”

(Narrated by Abu Dawood, 4727)

Al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar said concerning this hadeeth: its isnaad meets the conditions of being saheeh.

(Fath al-Baari, 8/665)

TenQ:

Is the highlighted in yellow True?