vooks:

Evidence of DESIGN rules out the naturalistic theory of Origins by chance.

What is the universe designed for?

Teempakguy:


It's the other way around actually. life is fine tuned for the universe. The universe actually doesn't care.

but wait, if the sun was too far away from earth and water did freeze, how do you know some lifeforms wouldn't spring up with an efficient way to cope with that? by finding a way to live in Icy conditions? already, we have found some lifeforms that can withstand superheating and superfreezing. hence your first point is . . . well, doesn't apply.
Nitrogen oxyen ratio is so because oxygen is more reactive than nitrogen anyway. too much oxygen, it will burn itself out. restoring the original ratio. carbon dioxide is rather little because carbon is in high demand. in fact, the only reason why it even exists is because it is a result of respiration. think of the amount of organism that can be formed out of all that carbon. as for gravity . . . no, we can live pretty well without it. see space stations. but then, of course, we wouldn't look like this, but whatever life form that evolved would think "Imagine if we had one force, constantly pulling us to itself. that we could never escape from, that would be terrible!"

If the hundred blind men were not allowed to repeat a movement they had made in the past, they most surely will solve several rubik's cube in a few million years. and that is the thing about the universe. It doesn't repeat things. once something is done, something slightly more complicated will follow. and then another slightly more complicated thing will arise out of that.

what do you think will eventually happen then?

hmmm little wonder y life has not bn discovered in mercury and Venus and other planets that either too close or too far away from our star...lol

The universe doesn't repeat itself...and we av d succession of day and night without more complications?? according to science, we av succession of ice age, same kind of rotation and revolution??... I laff in Swahili sir

dalaman:


How did God create life? What did he use in creating the different varieties of life we have on earth? What mechanism did God use in creating the cells of living organisms? How did God create the different races of humans on earth? How did God create the planets and the stars? What did he use in creating the universe from nothing?

Hmmm nice questions but directed to the wrong person.....If you've got questions concerning a product ,how it was manufactured, the materials used...who do u think is in d best position to answer ur questions?? d producer of the product(d designer) or d product itself(d designed, I mean vooks)??

I ask not to support anyone but to act as a gadfly.

Toyolad:

Hmmm nice questions but directed to the wrong person.....If you've got questions concerning a product ,how it was manufactured, the materials used...who do u think is in d best position to answer ur questions?? d producer of the product(d designer) or d product itself(d designed, I mean vooks)??

I ask not to support anyone but to act as a gadfly.

He is playing God, that is what all believers do , play God but refuse to answer basic questions about the God they keep claiming and positing. How did God create anything since they insist that God created everything? saying that God created things without telling us how he created them is empty and laughable. Those that claim God should please use God and explain to us how the DNA of organisms mutate for example. How does God explain anything? God has never been used to explain anything, God has only been used to make claims. When you ask the God advocates specific questions they all run away. I want any body that claims God, to use God alone and explain to me how this God of his/her created the sun, how the sun functions and the mechanism it uses to power itself. Only God should be used to explain these things, after all the claim they speak to God, so they should speak to God and ask him these questions, when he answers them they can let us know. Anything apart from that means they are just making stuffs up and relying on our collective ignorance.

"Religion and God(s) started when man had enough intellect to form profound questions but not enough to find answers for them".

dalaman:


He is playing God, that is what all believers do , play God but refuse to answer basic questions about the God they keep claiming and positing. How did God create anything since they insist that God created everything, saying that God created things without telling us how he created them is empty and laughable. Does that claim God should please use God and explain to us how the DNA of organisms mutate for example. How does God explain anything? God has never been used to explain anything, God has only been used to make claims. When you ask the God advocates specific questions they all run away. I want any body that claims God, to use God alone and explain to me how this God of his/her created the sun, how the sun functions and the mechanism it uses to power itself. Only God should be used to explain these things, after all the claim they speak to God, so they should speak to God and ask him these questions, when he answers them they can let us know. Anything apart from that means they are just making stuffs up and relying on our collective ignorance.

"Religion and God(s) started when man had enough intellect to form profound questions but not enough to find answers for them".

don't think they will quote their holy book by way of giving u explanations? it all boils down to giving explanations that are beyond reason but taken to be true not because of an indubitable proof but by faith which can neither be proven right nor wrong cos they are said to be revealed knowledge.... what more can I say then..

Toyolad:
don't think they will quote their holy book by way of giving u explanations? it all boils down to giving explanations that are beyond reason but taken to be true not because of an indubitable proof but by faith which can neither be proven right nor wrong cos they are said to be revealed knowledge.... what more can I say then..

I don't take Christians seriously when it comes to the issue of creation, they have so far refused to accept the way this God of theirs said he created the universe as written inside the bible because they know it is false, they just take part of it and run wild with it. They will tell you that in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth, but they will refuse to accept the other detailed explanation of how their God claimed he created the universe in 6 days and rested on the 7th day. They say its an allegory or will completely change what was written and give you their own opinion as against what was written because they know that what was written down is false, they claim God, refuse to use God in explaining how things were created, refuse to accept the way that God said he created the universe but still keep shouting God created only because they do not know how things came to be, how foolish and stupid can one be when he/she makes such inane assertions? God is just their default position for "I don't know".

dalaman:


What is the universe designed for?

Take a guess

vooks:

Take a guess

You are the one positing design, so you tell me what the entire universe was designed for.

dalaman:


He is playing God, that is what all believers do , play God but refuse to answer basic questions about the God they keep claiming and positing. How did God create anything since they insist that God created everything?

Nonsense. Do you need to know HOW the Subaru was made to understand there were some serious brains behind it?

saying that God created things without telling us how he created them is empty and laughable.

Why is it laughable?
Do you know need to know HOW a jet flies to understand it is designed?

Those that claim God should please use God and explain to us how the DNA of organisms mutate for example.

Those who ignore Intelligence in creation should FIRST explain HOW and from whence DNA came about

How does God explain anything?

Because it is infinitesimally mor0nic believing in CHANCE as responsible for life( order and complexity) to INTELLIGENCE

God has never been used to explain anything, God has only been used to make claims.

CHANCE has been used to explain the impossible which is quite some bullsh*t

When you ask the God advocates specific questions they all run away.

When you raise the idiocy of CHANCE and NOTHING causing everything,antitheists pee in their pants

I want any body that claims God, to use God alone and explain to me how this God of his/her created the sun, how the sun functions and the mechanism it uses to power itself.

INTELLIGENT DESIGN is not about HOW GOD does but HOW CHANCE CAN'T

Only God should be used to explain these things, after all the claim they speak to God, so they should speak to God and ask him these questions, when he answers them they can let us know. Anything apart from that means they are just making stuffs up and relying on our collective ignorance.

You are making up your own rules.
For instance, can we demand that plants explain to us how they thrive, pollinate, photosynthesis and all?
And would their inability to explain that falsify anything?
You can't barely understand how man functions or even some disciplines yet you peg proof of God to understanding Him. You are not smart

"Religion and God(s) started when man had enough intellect to form profound questions but not enough to find answers for them".

Bla de bla

dalaman:


You are the one positing design, so you tell me what the entire universe was designed for.

For a gazillion things but for now concentrate on this;LIFE ON EARTH

vooks:

For a gazillion things but for now concentrate on this;LIFE ON EARTH

No, I will not, you said the universe was designed, tell me what it was designed for, why are you running from what you are positing? Just state what the universe was designed for.

vooks:


Why not share it and watch it torn to shreds as you watch

Why would they tear my work. The UK is an enlightened society, unlike circular thinking Africans.

vooks:


It's sad you have cheerleaders for such nonsense.
You don't need to dissect the intelligence of the Subaru manufacturer to conclude the Subaru is a product of intelligence.

The design in and of itself is sufficient to point to a super intelligent designer regardless of whether the designer was designed or not.

The intelligence of the designer is no prerequisite for identifying design.

ID is first an eloquent argument against CHANCE and secondly argument for the super intelligence of the designer

Firstly, what is design ? And how can it be measured ?

lepasharon:


Firstly, what is design ? And how can it be measured ?

With a steady internet connection and Google, the definitions would overwhelm you.

lepasharon:



Why would they tear my work. The UK is an enlightened society, unlike circular thinking Africans.

I meant tear through your hollow arguments. Not them but us here. Just post your paper for all and sundry

dalaman:


No, I will not, you said the universe was designed, tell me what it was designed for, why are you running from what you are positing? Just state what the universe was designed for.

Please quote me and I will gladly answer you

Toyolad:
hmmm little wonder y life has not bn discovered in mercury and Venus and other planets that either too close or too far away from our star...lol

The universe doesn't repeat itself...and we av d succession of day and night without more complications?? according to science, we av succession of ice age, same kind of rotation and revolution??... I laff in Swahili sir

you missed my point.

vooks:

Nonsense. Do you need to know HOW the Subaru was made to understand there were some serious brains behind it?

Yes, those behind it's designed even throw it in the open because you need to know how it was designed before you can properly know how it functions, which will lead to better usage. The brakes of the car are designed to bring it to a halt. The wipers, to clean the wind screen, the side mirrors to aid better vision from behind, the head lights were designed to aid vision in the dark and on and on. All you need to know about the designed and the intention of the designers is to carry their manufacturing manual and get all the details. Where is this God;s manufacturing manual and design for the universe? How and why did your God design the asteroid belt in our solar system? Why did your God design the asteroid and the comets and for what purpose?

Why is it laughable?
Do you know need to know HOW a jet flies to understand it is designed?

Design by default states purpose. The Jet was designed in such a way that will make it fly, and that is what differentiates it from a chair which has a different purpose based on it's design. The Jet was designed for a purpose which is to aid fast travel. What are all the asteroids designed for? What about the other planets in our solar system? What are the gaseous planets designed for?

Those who ignore Intelligence in creation should FIRST explain HOW and from whence DNA came about

What is the intelligence behind the mutation of the DNA of living organisms? How did this God of your design the DNA, what did he use and for what purpose?

Because it is infinitesimally mor0nic believing in CHANCE as responsible for life( order and complexity) to INTELLIGENCE

I am not positing chance, you are. So deal with your assertions and bogey man.

CHANCE has been used to explain the impossible which is quite some bullsh*t


When you raise the idiocy of CHANCE and NOTHING causing everything,antitheists pee in their pants


INTELLIGENT DESIGN is not about HOW GOD does but HOW CHANCE CAN'T

I am an atheist, but I have never posited chance, you are positing a designer but have so far failed to answer very simple questions about the designer or the stuffs you claimed were designed. What was the universe designed for? What are black-holes designed for?

You are making up your own rules.
For instance, can we demand that plants explain to us how they thrive, pollinate, photosynthesis and all?
And would their inability to explain that falsify anything?
You can't barely understand how man functions or even some disciplines yet you peg proof of God to understanding Him. You are not smart
Bla de bla

I am asking pertinent questions, you claim to speak for God but are unable to answer simple questions. Have you proven anything? Which proof of God have you provided? By the way which God out of the many? You come here making empty noise and expect anybody to take you seriously. You are a joke.

vooks:

Please quote me and I will gladly answer you

Is the universe designed? Yes or no?

vooks:

You missed my analogy completely.
The Subaru simply tells you that such complexity can't possibly be due to chance. The Subaru screams design and this is why you will not entertain any natural random process such as volcanicity forming such a beau

I agree that the Subaru WRX is a product of 5000 years say since Mesopotamia developed the wheel.

When I say the probability of life is 1/10^55000, am not talking about human intelligence or a primate as yourself but the SIMPLEST unicellular organism from which we supposedly developed over billions of years.

Such probability in anything else would be called ZERO but sadly, you believe it for a fact and actively propagate it.

What do you mean eternity is not eternal?

Now, no religion claims to fully comprehend their deity. As a Christian, I readily concede, 'I don't know'. What am doing is examining two worldviews where one is debunked by simple probability whereas the other one is fully supported by probabilities. How so?

1. Naturalism: such incredibly complex organisms owe their existence to CHANCE (1/1^55000)
2. Christianity: such incredibly complex organisms owe their existence to a superintelligent being

What is the probability of a superintelligent being eternal or not forming such a complex organism?
I only need to look to human intelligence at work to see how intelligence turns impossibility to possibility!

As I said earlier, intelligence is the antithesis of chance

You didn't complete this statement.

Christianity: such incredibly complex organisms owe their existence to a superintelligent being which, owes it's own existence to CHANCE (Near Impossible.)

And yes. Eternity is not eternal. I opened a thread on infinity in the science section where i explained some terms of infinity.. even infinity has sizes and no matter how big the infinity you take is, there will always exist an infinity which is bigger than it.

Intelligence is not the antithesis to chance. because even deep down, intelligent systems are governed by quantum mechanics. which, itself, is governed by chance. how's that for a food for thought.

Teempakguy:
You didn't complete this statement.

Which one?

Christianity: such incredibly complex organisms owe their existence to a superintelligent being which, owes it's own existence to CHANCE (Near Impossible.)

Presumptions

Why would God owe His existence to CHANCE? This is the standard deflecting I was talking about. Does the nature of God affect this argument in any way. Supposing I conceded He is also created and his creator is also created and so forth... Doe this negate the fact that life is too complex and ordered to be a product of chance?

And yes. Eternity is not eternal. I opened a thread on infinity in the science section where i explained some terms of infinity.. even infinity has sizes and no matter how big the infinity you take is, there will always exist an infinity which is bigger than it.

Presumptions galore
why do you reduce eternity to infinity? Eternity is timelessness

Intelligence is not the antithesis to chance. because even deep down, intelligent systems are governed by quantum mechanics. which, itself, is governed by chance. how's that for a food for thought.

Presumptions again
QM governs everything

dalaman:


Is the universe designed? Yes or no?

Post my specific quote or admit you made up a strawman

vooks:

Post my specific quote or admit you made up a strawman

You have been arguing for a designed universe and an intelligent designer behind it, haven't you? Is the universe designed or not?

dalaman:


You have been arguing for a designed universe and an intelligent designer behind it, haven't you? Is the universe designed or not?

You won't quote me, right?

Can I forgive you for strawman?

vooks:

With a steady internet connection and Google, the definitions would overwhelm you.

the thing is, the proponents of ID have never said what this design is and if you dont know what ID is how can it be measured and how do you know what it is ?

vooks:

You won't quote me, right?

Can I forgive you for strawman?

Which straw man? You have been implying that something must have designed the universe yet you are talking about a straw man, did some thing design the universe or did it appear by chance? Which is your position because that has been what you have been on about throughout this thread?

vooks:

Which one?


Presumptions

Why would God owe His existence to CHANCE? This is the standard deflecting I was talking about. Does the nature of God affect this argument in any way. Supposing I conceded He is also created and his creator is also created and so forth... Doe this negate the fact that life is too complex and ordered to be a product of chance?


Presumptions galore
why do you reduce eternity to infinity? Eternity is timelessness


Presumptions again
QM governs everything

Right, so you are arguing that God may have been designed now?
how do you know if his designer won't someday mess things up for him? how can you be so sure of all his plans when even he is subject to another higher intelligence? and how does that explain him referring to himself as . . ."the Only God. no one more powerful than him?"

Okay, so what do you mean by "Eternity is timelessness?" time is a dimension. if there is a reality that doesn't have time, it is flatland to us. if your god exists in such a world, you're way more powerful than he is.

I also don't think you know what you meant when you said quantum mechanics governs everything. intelligence is a subset of everything. are you know admitting that everything is governed by chance? nigga you are confusing yourself.

Teempakguy:
Right, so you are arguing that God may have been designed now?

Nope, am arguing against CHANCE and you are busy deflecting. You are all shying away from this. CHANCE has limits. Chance can't manufacture a Subaru in a gazillion years.

how do you know if his designer won't someday mess things up for him? how can you be so sure of all his plans when even he is subject to another higher intelligence? and how does that explain him referring to himself as . . ."the Only God. no one more powerful than him?"

CHANCE can't produce a Subaru in a trillion trillion years

Okay, so what do you mean by "Eternity is timelessness?" time is a dimension. if there is a reality that doesn't have time, it is flatland to us. if your god exists in such a world, you're way more powerful than he is.

I will gladly teach you eternity some day. For now, focus on CHANCE

I also don't think you know what you meant when you said quantum mechanics governs everything. intelligence is a subset of everything. are you know admitting that everything is governed by chance? nigga you are confusing yourself.

Negro,
You said God is equally governed by quantum mechanics. Pretty horrible logic if you ask around.

Again, focus on the limits of CHANCE

vooks:

I meant tear through your hollow arguments. Not them but us here. Just post your paper for all and sundry

Why should I seek the opinion of religiotards. My supervisor will have a field day with my topic

dalaman:


Which straw man? You have been implying that something must have designed the universe yet you are talking about a straw man, did some thing design the universe or did it appear by chance? Which is your position because that has been what you have been on about throughout this thread?

My posts are all here. Pick specific bits you wish to be taught on

lepasharon:


the thing is, the proponents of ID have never said what this design is and if you dont know what ID is how can it be measured and how do you know what it is ?

The first time I saw a living cell, I had no Idea of what it was. It didn't make any sense to me. it was actually the most random thing I'd ever seen.

It was later, when I learned about it, that i started associating design with it.

lepasharon:


Why should I seek the opinion of religiotards. My supervisor will have a field day with my topic

Why are you bragging about it here Negro?

Nitwit