PabloAfricanus:


Interesting read.
Been following the discourse.
Lemme add my input, kindly note that I do not claim to be an expert but certain facts can be neutrally analyzed from the side.
I am here to attempt a balance.
Firstly, any one or any group of peoples are free to define, propose, redefine and change their identities a million times a day if it suits their
purposes. No one or any group have any right what so ever to challenge the intrinsic right of any group of people to self identify as they see fit.
So I am in full support of Ukwuani, Ika, Anioma, Ikwerre and all so-called Igbo speaking peoples in their quest to define a unique identity for themselves. It is their God given right and they owe no one any apologies or explanations for carving out an identity for themselves.

Now to the nitty gritty of the matter (pun intended).

My interest is in shared history, shared culture and shared traditions.
That cannot be wished away, changed or somehow redefined to suit one's likes or dislikes.
Michael Jackson did not become a white man by whatever form of skin bleaching he employed as till today his black parents, brothers and sisters are alive...and the whole world knew him before he started looking like a white man.

That said, why is it that all the denials of an Igbo identity center around Benin?
Carefully [b]constructed proofs and oral stories [/b]are researched and put forth as factual evidences linking a people who have more in common with the Igbos across the Niger to Benin and her peoples who just live a mere stone throw(the distance is not long abeg) to them?

It is this part that has sparked my interest and piqued my curiosity.
I have never witnessed such a phenomenon anywhere in the world.
We had a family friend from Ukwuani then in Lagos and I was opportuned to see the banking details of his son.
Lo and behold the guys middle name was Ijeoma! Now being fluent in Igbo, I knew this was not a chance occurrence or a misnomer.
The man gave his son an obviously Igbo name!
Now while there is nothing special or new about this, it underscores the core of the identity crisis that some people are trying so hard to run away from.
Firstly, the Igbos in the SE are surrounded by Igalas, Idomas, Ibibios,Efiks etc. and none of these peoples bear the name Ijeoma.
Next, the name Ijeoma means the same thing in Ukwuani 'language' and any of the numerous Igbo dialects across the Niger.
How did such a similarity come about?
Professional historians and linguists have ascertained that Ukwuani is just another dialect of Igbo.
From the Okpala Ukus, to the Ote ofes to the Nwachukwus to the primordial goddess of the Igbos Ani...all the known artifacts and markers of Igbo language, tradition and culture has been faithfully replicated in Ukwuani.
How come?
Chance or as the fierce deniers love to put it...just a similarity?

How did you manage to rationalize this quote below or are you able to list logical assertions from it?


I am really struggling to see the part that inspired the "touche" remark other than an elder echoing agreed upon versions of the history you are passing across.

Mind you that the contention is not about self identity or whatever appellation Ukwuani folks choose to go by.
How do you suddenly pretend Nwachukwu as a name borne by Ukwuanis is not the same as Nwachukwu borne by the kingless, leaderless and slavery prone Igbo peoples on the other side of the Niger?
You know, the Ukwuanis who are a more distantly westernly people and quite different from the SE Igbos?
How did Ukwuanis come about Chukwu in the first place? Mere fluke of history?
To me, it just makes no sense.

Add to the mix the fact that the entire land mass of the SE Igbos and the entire Aniomas/Ikas being discussed is less than the land mass of the Bornu both as an empire and as a Nigerian state. So we are not talking about peoples that geographically distant from each other.

You see, shared history does not lie. It will out and tell you the origins of most peoples on the face of the planet..if you dig deep enough.
It is like an automatic shibboleth that will identity you by name, language, culture or tradition.
The only scientific counter to shared history is DNA analysis.
No living human being ever chose to be a member of any race or ethnic group.
You were just born there and you naturally imbibed the language and culture stretching centuries and millennia back before your great grand parents were born.

So, I think the drive to disconnect from a perceived "Igbo" identity or connection whatsoever with Igbos should be balanced with accurate historical analysis.
It is a proven fact the monarchical practice in Anioma was borrowed/copied and influenced from Benin.
The current practices, names of the titles and testimonies of rulers across the length of Eze Chime clans attest to that fact.
This is even more pronounced by the fact that the Edo tongue never eroded in any way the Igbo dialects prevalent in Anioma then and now.
It is also a proven fact that there have been migrants from Benin and intermarriages way long before the Europeans came calling.
Then and now, some things still die hard.
How the people who profess to come from Benin suddenly forgot their Benin tongue, deities, pure monarchical systems and culture...and suddenly picked up the language, deities, market days and culture of a distant territory and more easternly Igbos remains a question that has been silently ignored or swept under the rug.

I think I have a plausible answer to that question....shared histories.
It is never forced, imposed or coerced. It just is.
You should do well to atleast acknowledge that, it will make your story more complete and factual.

My 2cents.

PS: I love your writing style.

God bless. Your write up is unbiased. Shalom

SlayerSupreme:

KAI! Thi girl is pathetic!!! The last paragraph is plain stuupid!!! The bolded is inferiority complex at play. Jesus! I've told you I agree you are not igbos cause I have met your people but this show of desperation is pathetic. You are a lowlife my dear. haba! Only iyo made you believe your people are Yorubas Benin. I spit on you! You have slave mentality. Make I burst your slave bubble. Among some Igbos,sieve is nkìtà or nyiyo{shortened to nyo or myo} also sometimes used to refer to a basket. You're a lowlife fighting for identification.You're lost.

You and your entire generation are the pathetic lowlifes. Mannerless baboon who has no business on the internet. Like Shakespear's Hogroth, you regurgitate slime and dung with every spasm your plague addled fingers make on the keypad of your longsuffering China phone. Empty headed bufoon.

Now fuvk off, your time is up

PabloAfricanus, my device is blinking red (typed the life out of the battery) so I will respond later today, if that is alright with you.

Ishilove:

You and your entire generation are the lowlifes. Mannerless baboon who has no business on the internet.

Now fuvk off, your time is up

***Blocked Comment***

***Blocked Comment***

SlayerSupreme:

Wow. Let's do this!!!

You must be high on your own fart if you think I will descend any further to your level.

From now on I will ignore you so hard, you will doubt your own existence.

Fuvk off for good.

***Blocked Comment***

Ishilove:

You must be high on your own fart if you think I will descend any further to your level.

From now on I will ignore you so hard, you will doubt your own existence.

Fuvk off for good.

***Blocked comment***

LMAO!!!

SlayerSupreme:
Go to Benin and marry na. No husband there too? Efulefu di ka gi. Who wants to marry a classless bleached out empty shell like you? You're arguing with Igbos. You don baff? Ukwuani my Igbo princely foot. C'mon gerrout Idiott. Work on yourself before the silly lies your father tells you hinders yiu from settling down. Remember your Benin slave father will not marry you. Fuck_ing bleached out harlot. Now logout and go and die

Totally uncalled for and unncessary.
She owes you no apologies for her stand or take.
And i am failing to see how you stand to benefit from her towing your line.
Dude you are just displaying high level childishness.
How do you intend to win her over to your view if all you can do is engage in expletives?
Be the man and let things you have no control over be.
I will suggest you apologize to her.

PabloAfricanus:


Totally uncalled for and unncessary.
She owes you no apologies for her stand or take.
And i am failing to see how you stand to benefit from her towing your line.
Dude you are just displaying high level childishness.
How do you intend to win her over to your view if all you can do is engage in expletives?
Be the man and let things you have no control over be.
I will suggest you apologize to her.

Don't waste your mb on classless, empty headed, puerile internet thugs. This is what one sees when telecom companies have crashed cost of browsing data.

His insults on his female children yet unborn is all water off a duck.

You have made a very interesting submission and I am almost tempted to start typing all over again, although my digits are terribly cramped now. I must rest!

PabloAfricanus:


Totally uncalled for and unncessary.
She owes you no apologies for her stand or take.
And i am failing to see how you stand to benefit from her towing your line.
Dude you are just displaying high level childishness.
How do you intend to win her over to your view if all you can do is engage in expletives?
Be the man and let things you have no control over be.
I will suggest you apologize to her.

The biggest mistake you'll make is to think,I,give a damn what she claims. She can take her epistles to the grave for all I care. What stops her,a mature woman,from bringing facts to the table;like you did? How can a grown woman say iyo or myiyo similarity to Yoruba connects Ukwuani to Benin. All to defend bias passed down from less informed parents? C'mon!!!

Ishilove:

Don't waste your mb on classless, empty headed, puerile internet thugs. His insults on his female children yet unborn is all water off a duck.

You have made a very interesting submission and I am almost tempted to start typing all over again, although my digits are terribly cramped now. I must rest!

***Blocked Comment***

I hereby tender my unreserved and most sincere apology to Ishilove. Please forgive me. I take back the shots I fired to defame her person. Those shots are usually reserved for idiots who denigrate the great Igbo nation: She did nothing like that,hence this apology. Ishilove forgive me. I still think some of your postulations are pathetic though I feel you can claim whatever you desire. I will consqequently edit some of my posts.
P.S - Mr man you can see the apology. Don't call me childish next time because of a lady. It rubs off negatively on you. Though you won't agree or understand.
Ishilove,once again,I'm sorry.

When any of you denigrate the great Igbo nation,rest assured I'll come for you. Shalom.

http://archive.org/stream/narrativeofexped01alle/narrativeofexped01alle_djvu.txt

Here is how the Europeans found Aboh.

It has always been Igbo.

At noon we passed a large village called Utok,
inhabited by a mixture of the Ibu and Egaboh tribes.
They are both celebrated for the cultivation of the yam,
which is found in perfection in these districts. The
chief of Utok came on board decked in a drummer's
jacket, given him by Lander, and bearing in his hand
his staff of office, an iron rod, ornamented with brass
rings and terminating at the top in a sort of crescent.

The Igabos are the Isokos, while the Sobos were the Uhrobos. Rigby from the beginning, the Europeans knew the difference between Isoko and Uhrobo.

The Igaboh( Isoko) and Ibu( Ibo) mixed town the white described there, can all still be found in Ndokwa.

It means that the people( Igabo and Ibus) settled on the same place, it does not connote relationship, like I see Ukwuanis make when they go on about their Ukwuani ethnicity being a mixture of many non Igbo groups.

[b]" We ascertained that the name Ibu belongs to a large
tract of country lying on both sides of the Niger, but
is more extensive to the eastward of it, and containing
possibly many independent tribes, of which Obi rules
over the villages in the immediate neighbourhood of the
river, and it appears that his power does not extend
much beyond the reach of his canoes. The real name
of his chief town, we find, is Aboh, and not Ibu or
Eboe, as Lander called it.

Obi is called the Ezzeh Obi Osai. The first being
his title, answering to king or chief; the second his
patronymic, and the last his cognomen. His sovereignty
is acknowledged for about fifty-five miles along both sides
of the river ; Oni^h being his lowest village on the right
bank, near the Benin branch ; Owiah Okbe, the highest.
On the left bank, fi-om Ip^tanih upwards to Akra-atan,
near the Onechk River, and aU the villages included
between these. Notwithstanding all his proud de-
claration of absolute power, it is doubtful whether it
can be considered as really more than a preponderating
influence, of variable nature.

He had asserted his authority to be despotic and here-
ditary ; but we were informed by our friend, Ukasa, that "[/b]


Here we get to learn about the king of Aboh Kingdom, Ezzeh Obi Ossai, who had a son named Chukwuma and a daughter named Adaezeh( Adzeh).

[b] Physical characteristics of the Ibus — Religious superstitions — Idols
numerous — Horrible practice on the birth of twins — Large earthen
idol — Tshuku or the Great Spirit — Absurd stories of the priests —
Aboh Creek — Beautiful birds — Native dwellings — Ezzeh Obi
Osai's mud palace — The Harem — Human sacrifices — Insalubrity
of Aboh — Ornithology — Rare animals shot by accident — Plants —
Domestic slavery — Obi Osai's second visit to the * Albert' — Obi
Osa'i kneels down with the white men to worship their God — His
sudden fear — The " arrisi" or idol called for — The presents — Obi's
anxiety to establish trade with England — Departure from Aboh —
Ogou ladies — Proceed up the river — Body of a female floating in
the stream — Ali Here, the Ibu pilot — Beauty of the country —
"Osochai" — Aboh trade-canoes — Okoh — Splendid sunset — Fishing-
huts — Appearance of the hills — Anno — Abain-him or the " meeting
of the waters" — Adda-Mugu or Abela — SuflFerings of the former
Expedition at this place — Circular huts first met with — The Edoh
examined — Uliain village — King William's Mountain — Anchor off
Iddah.

The natives of Aboh are comparatively tall for West
Africans ; well-made and muscular, but the hands and
feet are large. The most prevalent colour of skin is
yellowish or brownish-black. The features are truly
negro, the nose expanded, lips rather thick, and without
that pleasing outline observed in some negroes. The
forehead is broad and less retreating than in their more
intelligent neighbours the Eggarahs, but the maxillary
bones are more prognathous or protruding, and the
facial angle consequently less favourable.



242 PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS.

The national mark is triangular, tattoed on each
temple in the males, while the softer sex have various
starlike distinctions on the breast and abdomen. The
women are large, and inclined to " embonpoint,'* the
effect probably of the fattening process they go through
to arrive at the Ibu standard of female beauty. The
countenance of these people is at once expressive of good
nature and restless inquisitiveness.

The religious superstitions of Aboh are as various and
degrading as at any place we visited, and the Fetiches, or
idols, as numerous ; every hut having one or more, as well
as amulets, or charms, suspended from sticks in the
quadrangular courts. Many of the idols had pots of
water and food placed near them.

The accompanying sketch is taken from a Ju-ju,
presented to Doctor McWilliam by one of Obi's sons. [/b]

We learn from a neutral perspective, the physical characteristics and ways of the Aboh( Ukwuani),

[b] At a little distance from Obi's dwelling, and rather
to the right, we came unexpectedly on a large earthen
idol, placed in a thicket surrounded by high trees ; this
we believe to be the image to which most of their sacri-
fices are offered. Some persons who were near when
we moved towards the direction of this sacred spot,
made earnest signs for us not to approach, exclaiming,
" Tshuku — Tshuku," and just as we had obtained a look
of the figure, one of the Ju-ju men, or priests, came up
in a menacing manner, and would not allow us to remain,
or further to examine the neighbourhood. He appeared
to be very much exasperated, and disposed to punish
our temerity, which probably was only escaped by the
presence of a good double-barrelled " Nock." This
jealous care of the idol, and the exclamation " Tshuku —
Tshuku'* would lead to the supposition that it is the
visible representation of a mysterious being or deity,
whom they consult as an oracle under the same name.
His votaries believe him to exist far off in the bush ; that
he has the power of speaking and understanding all
languages ; is cognizant of every thing that takes place
in the world, and that he can punish evil doers. The
priest whilst holding communion with Tshuku, is sur-
rounded miraculously with water, and will perish
instantaneously if he attempts to deceive. As all these
absurd stories originate with the Ju-ju men, whose
object is to mislead their too credulous dupes, we may [/b]

Ezzeh Obi Ossai, the king of Aboh worshipped Chukwu( Tshuku) as his God, and not Osanobua. It doesn't get more Igbo than that.

Interesting lecture dear Ishilove....

This is what I want to hear... Not crazy rantings from that asha baby... Back to topic...

I'm Akashiede... And I'm proud of it.

But aboriginal ukwani is something that is very hard to picture in my mind.... Like Ugomba noted ... "From where did the aboriginals migrate? "

If I look and examine my people physically... Some old people ... They're usually short and dark in complexion... They're short, at most 4-5ft (not dwarf though).. And dark/deep brown in complexion....

The other people on the other hand are tall (6-7ft) and fair in complexion...

I supposed the tall and fair folks are those who migrated from the Asaba side cos they same physical features ....

But the old, short and dark ppl, I don't know where they come from.... No idea.... And their gene is ' almost gone" among from the younger generation.

My great grandpa... They say he's a tall and fair man... Married a short dark woman... My grand uncles arr mostly tall and fair but curiously, my grandpa took his mom's features ... He was short, slim and dark in complexion... His children (My dad, uncles and aunties except one aunt) are all tall and fair... Only one of his children took the short/dark gene.Now... Nobody among me and cousins are short/dark

The thing I admire most about the dark-short-slim ukwuani people is... They are very strong and often outlive their tall-fair counterparts by many decades.... While the fair guys start dying when they reach 70-80... The short dark ones live up to 110-130 years old... Amazing ...!!..

but the downside is that... They're not intelligent. ... They're just content with living everyday as it comes... Just eat, sleep, marry, farm, born children, have fun... Thats all...They don't have ambition. The mentality s still veey much among ukwuani people .... And I hate it.

I really have no idea of where the short/dark folks come from as I haven't seen them anywhere else outside ukwuani land.

So ... On the aboriginal ukwuani people, you have a point as I have seem them... I dont even know those people are a treasure ... If i go to the village soon, I will snap a picture of an old aunt with the aboriginal features and keep the pixs for future reference.

@ Ugomba : these ukwuani aboriginal folks... They're dull o. Asking them where they come from is like pouring water into basket ... Theyre not literate... If u press them with hard questions, they will stand up and run away.

Back to the igbo debate...

True... There's really nothing like "igbo " before the white man came. Someone told me Enugu people were called "Ndienugu "... Hill people ... Just like you mentioned Ndiosumili... Riverine people ... Owerre man is simply owerre... Oka (Awka) man is simply awka... All the clans were like different countries to each other.... The was nothing like "igbo "...

It was for political and administrative classification ... That was how the British woke up and called everyone in the east of the Niger "Igbo "... They tried the same trick with Ukwauani by tagging them "kwale "...

So while the people in the east of the Niger accepted the "igbo " tag, .... Ukwuani rejected the kwale tag.

So... In reality ... If we all mentally go back to the 15th-16th century ... There was really nothing like "igbo ".

So I fully understand why ukwuani/ikwerre folks get offended When they are called "igbo "... Before the white man came, there was nothing like "igbo " so why are you calling me igbo?? ?? ??

But for me, the reason why I wouldn't get offended if I'm called "igbo " is the same reason why I wouldn't get offended if someone calls me "kwale "... To me, (and most Nigerians) igbo is a term used to describe the tribes from around /east lower niger.....

The real tribes... Are in their respective villages and clans.... I have been to Nnewi and Onitsha festivals and I can say... Nnewi and osha ppl are very distinct ....

So... I can say... Ukwuani is a tribe of its own if I use pre-16th century perspective ....

But the reality in today's world and Nigeria in particular is that... Portraying yourself as minority is like using your hand to scatter your own food. There is strength in numbers. Hausa/fulani/kanuri have teamed up as one... Egba, ijebu, Oyo, ekiti and co teamed up to form yoruba.... These people are the ones that benefitting most from Nigeria.

So for I think it will actually do us a lot more good if we in the east can team up and give hausa/yoruba a run for our resources so brazenly being exploited.

That is why I wouldn't take offense if anyone calls me igbo...

oweniwe:
Interesting lecture dear Ishilove....

This is what I want to hear... Not crazy rantings from that asha baby... Back to topic...

I'm Akashiede... And I'm proud of it.

But aboriginal ukwani is something that is very hard to picture in my mind.... Like Ugomba noted ... "From where did the aboriginals migrate? "

If I look and examine my people physically... Some old people ... They're usually short and dark in complexion... They're short, at most 4-5ft (not dwarf though).. And dark/deep brown in complexion....

The other people on the other hand are tall (6-7ft) and fair in complexion...

I supposed the tall and fair folks are those who migrated from the Asaba side cos they same physical features ....

But the old, short and dark ppl, I don't know where they come from.... No idea.... And their gene is ' almost gone" among from the younger generation.

My great grandpa... They say he's a tall and fair man... Married a short dark woman... My grand uncles arr mostly tall and fair but curiously, my grandpa took his mom's features ... He was short, slim and dark in complexion... His children (My dad, uncles and aunties except one aunt) are all tall and fair... Only one of his children took the short/dark gene.Now... Nobody among me and cousins are short/dark

The thing I admire most about the dark-short-slim ukwuani people is... They are very strong and often outlive their tall-fair counterparts by many decades.... While the fair guys start dying when they reach 70-80... The short dark ones live up to 110-130 years old... Amazing ...!!..

but the downside is that... They're not intelligent. ... They're just content with living everyday as it comes... Just eat, sleep, marry, farm, born children, have fun... Thats all...They don't have ambition. The mentality s still veey much among ukwuani people .... And I hate it.

I really have no idea of where the short/dark folks come from as I haven't seen them anywhere else outside ukwuani land.

So ... On the aboriginal ukwuani people, you have a point as I have seem them... I dont even know those people are a treasure ... If i go to the village soon, I will snap a picture of an old aunt with the aboriginal features and keep the pixs for future reference.

@ Ugomba : these ukwuani aboriginal folks... They're dull o. Asking them where they come from is like pouring water into basket ... Theyre not literate... If u press them with hard questions, they will stand up and run away.

Back to the igbo debate...

True... There's really nothing like "igbo " before the white man came. Someone told me Enugu people were called "Ndienugu "... Hill people ... Just like you mentioned Ndiosumili... Riverine people ... Owerre man is simply owerre... Oka (Awka) man is simply awka... All the clans were like different countries to each other.... The was nothing like "igbo "...

It was for political and administrative classification ... That was how the British woke up and called everyone in the east of the Niger "Igbo "... They tried the same trick with Ukwauani by tagging them "kwale "...

So while the people in the east of the Niger accepted the "igbo " tag, .... Ukwuani rejected the kwale tag.

So... In reality ... If we all mentally go back to the 15th-16th century ... There was really nothing like "igbo ".

So I fully understand why ukwuani/ikwerre folks get offended When they are called "igbo "... Before the white man came, there was nothing like "igbo " so why are you calling me igbo?? ?? ??

But for me, the reason why I wouldn't get offended if I'm called "igbo " is the same reason why I wouldn't get offended if someone calls me "kwale "... To me, (and most Nigerians) igbo is a term used to describe the tribes from around /east lower niger.....

The real tribes... Are in their respective villages and clans.... I have been to Nnewi and Onitsha festivals and I can say... Nnewi and osha ppl are very distinct ....

So... I can say... Ukwuani is a tribe of its own if I use pre-16th century perspective ....

But the reality in today's world and Nigeria in particular is that... Portraying yourself as minority is like using your hand to scatter your own food. There is strength in numbers. Hausa/fulani/kanuri have teamed up as one... Egba, ijebu, Oyo, ekiti and co teamed up to form yoruba.... These people are the ones that benefitting most from Nigeria.

So for I think it will actually do us a lot more good if we in the east can team up and give hausa/yoruba a run for our resources so brazenly being exploited.

That is why I wouldn't take offense if anyone calls me igbo...

These aboriginal Ukwuani...if my memory serves me right, were described by the white district commissioner in one the Ukwuani clans...I can't remember the exact words he used... something about the women being short, dark, dull and used to carrying heavy loads like 'beasts of burden'... in short he described Ukwuani women in the most unflattering terms

I just wish I could remember. It's been so long and my memory needs refreshment.

SlayerSupreme:
I hereby tender my unreserved and most sincere apology to Ishilove. Please forgive me. I take back the shots I fired to defame her person. Those shots are usually reserved for idiots who denigrate the great Igbo nation: She did nothing like that,hence this apology. Ishilove forgive me. I still think some of your postulations are pathetic though I feel you can claim whatever you desire. I will consqequently edit some of my posts.
P.S - Mr man you can see the apology. Don't call me childish next time because of a lady. It rubs off negatively on you. Though you won't agree or understand.
Ishilove,once again,I'm sorry.

Better.
That did not hurt you one bit did it?

Igboid:
[b] At a little distance from Obi's dwelling, and rather
to the right, we came unexpectedly on a large earthen
idol, placed in a thicket surrounded by high trees ; this
we believe to be the image to which most of their sacri-
fices are offered. Some persons who were near when
we moved towards the direction of this sacred spot,
made earnest signs for us not to approach, exclaiming,
" Tshuku — Tshuku," and just as we had obtained a look
of the figure, one of the Ju-ju men, or priests, came up
in a menacing manner, and would not allow us to remain,
or further to examine the neighbourhood. He appeared
to be very much exasperated, and disposed to punish
our temerity, which probably was only escaped by the
presence of a good double-barrelled " Nock." This
jealous care of the idol, and the exclamation " Tshuku —
Tshuku'* would lead to the supposition that it is the
visible representation of a mysterious being or deity,
whom they consult as an oracle under the same name.
His votaries believe him to exist far off in the bush ; that
he has the power of speaking and understanding all
languages ; is cognizant of every thing that takes place
in the world, and that he can punish evil doers. The
priest whilst holding communion with Tshuku, is sur-
rounded miraculously with water, and will perish
instantaneously if he attempts to deceive. As all these
absurd stories originate with the Ju-ju men, whose
object is to mislead their too credulous dupes, we may [/b]

Ezzeh Obi Ossai, the king of Aboh worshipped Chukwu( Tshuku) as his God, and not Osanobua. It doesn't get more Igbo than that.

I have read that book.
Funny how people conveniently forget written histories that predated their new political stands right?

No offense but I think its a clear case of either political expediency or just plain inferiority complex. Cos to me, the whole denial thingy is like uncalled for.
Anyways, written history is a good thing, pity sub saharans never came up with one.
The art of writing and memory is a wonderful thing!
The amazing thing is…the deliberate and selective amnesia practiced by some of the indigenes from these sides who should have known better.
Like forgetting their ancestors put a brave and ceaseless fight against Bini hegemony and fiercely maintained their independence in the face of Bini's imperial ambitions.
Only for their living descendants today to go dig up carefully selected oral histories emphasising their glorious and mutual beneficial ancestral ties to Bini!
Oral stories their progenitors would probably recoil from and find repugnant!
Like conveniently forgetting the testimony of their past kings who met with the Europeans… who their kings said they were, what they called themselves and how they identified themselves.
Even worse, the dangers of a single story… conveniently lumping all the peoples east of the Niger as "Igbo"… while projecting a unified, somewhat clean and tidy separate non Igbo stained existence for themselves. So convenient!
And yet, when they are done, the self proclaimed admixtured people who are less than say the Owerris, the Ngwas or the Idemili.… go on speaking pristine Igbo dialects and practicing pristine Igbo traditions.
Sigh… some things do die hard.

PabloAfricanus:

... people who are less than say the Owerris, the Ngwas or the Idemili.… go on speaking pristine Igbo dialects and practicing pristine Igbo traditions.
Sigh… some things do die hard.

@ PabloAfricanus, Igboid, SlayerSupreme ....

A quite question here... Please I'll a appreciate straight answer

Do you agree with the notion that there was nothing like Igbo before the white man came?

Igboid:
http://archive.org/stream/narrativeofexped01alle/narrativeofexped01alle_djvu.txt

Here is how the Europeans found Aboh.

It has always been Igbo.

Many thanks for the link brother

oweniwe:


@ PabloAfricanus, Igboid, SlayerSupreme ....

Do you agree with the notion that [b]there was nothing like Igbo before the white man came? [b/]

The Igbo speaking people knew each other, but they didn't fly under one Igbo banner.

No one was Igbo per say, but they subconsciously knew they were related people.

Obi Ezzeh Ossai in that 1841 British expedition I was posting, did acknowledge the existence of "Ibu" speaking people across the Niger, over whom he had no control.

He never addressed their Igaboh, brass, Ejoh and Bini neighbors as such.

Simon Jonas, the "Ibo" man that served as the interpreter between the British voyage of 1841 and Ezzeh Obi Ossai was an Igbo man from Eastern Igboland,he had never been to Aboh before, yet he needed no interpreter to understand all Obi Ezzeh Ossai of Aboh Kingdom spoke, and relayed them in English to the white man. Also Obi Ezzeh Ossai had no problem understanding Simon Jonas Igbo dialect, even though we know that he( Simon) was probably speaking Isuama Ibo dialect to Ezzeh Obi Ossai and not Aboh/Ukwuani dialect.

Ishilove:

...I can't remember the exact words he used... something about the women being short, dark, dull and used to carrying heavy loads like 'beasts of burden'... in short he described Ukwuani women in the most unflattering terms .

You no dey go farm nau...

If you dey go farm... Sometimes you will see them comfortably carry tree trunks (firewood) on their head after farm to house.

Seriously, their trait is fast disappearing as no one wants to born short children anymore so two "shorties " wouldn't "fvck "

oweniwe:


You no dey go farm nau...

If you dey go farm... Sometimes you will see them comfortably carry tree trunks (firewood) on their head after farm to house.

Seriously, their trait is fast disappearing as no one wants to born short children anymore so two "shorties " wouldn't "fvck "

Heck no. Why must two shorties mate and propagate the short genes?

True, I didn't farm but my mum and grandparents did and I tell you, my mum is far stronger than I even till now

Igboid:


The Igbo speaking people knew each other, but they didn't fly under one Igbo banner.

1. No one was Igbo per say, but they subconsciously knew they were related people.

Obi Ezzeh Ossai in that 1841 British expedition I was posting, did acknowledge the existence of "Ibu" speaking people across the Niger, over whom he had no control.

Simon Jonas, the "Ibo" man that served as the interpreter between the British voyage of 1841 and Ezzeh Obi Ossai was an Igbo man from Eastern Igboland,he had never been to Aboh before, yet he needed no interpreter to understand all Obi Ezzeh Ossai of Aboh Kingdom spoke, and relayed them in English to the white man.

Also Obi Ezzeh Ossai had no problem understanding Simon Jonas Igbo dialect....

1. Based on point one, since there was nothing like igbo back then, do you think ukwuani, ikwerre, ika etc folks are right to reject being called "igbo "?

E.g.... "I am Ukwuani... I am not igbo because there was nothing like "igbo " before the white man came "...

Ngwa man is simply Ngwa... Osha man is simply Osha... Ndienigu are simply Ndienugu... Ukwuani is simply Ukwuani... Ikwerre is simply ikwerre.... There's nothing like "Igbo "

Do you see ' reason ' in the above statement?

Ishilove:

Heck no. Why must two shorties mate and propagate the short genes?

True, I didn't farm but my mum and grandparents did and I tell you, my mum is far stronger than I even till now

Same for my mom... even in late 50s she can still sprint.... And trek very fast.

The height disparity between my dad and mom now is like difference between palm tree and orange tree

But if you want to live a life free from back pain, thigh/leg pain when you get old... The short gene is the way to go.

oweniwe:


1. Based on point one, since there was nothing like igbo back then, do you think ukwuani, ikwerre, ika etc folks are right to reject being called "igbo "?

E.g.... "I am Ukwuani... I am not igbo because there was nothing like "igbo " before the white man came "...

Ngwa man is simply Ngwa... Osha man is simply Osha... Ndienigu are simply Ndienugu... Ukwuani is simply Ukwuani... Ikwerre is simply ikwerre.... There's nothing like "Igbo "

Do you see ' reason ' in the above statement?

No. I see no reason.
We as a people had passed over that stage of clannish tendencies and independence.

The colonials met us a fragmented people, but being in the same country with bitter rivals who were non Igbo speaking, saw us merge together as one Ibo people politically.

We have passed the clannish stage in our evolution. And won't allow some people draw us back to that stage, simply because we lost a war. Mbanu!

Ukwuani can still maintain its distinctive nature, but it has to be under the Igbo banner, because even in SE, clans like Ngwa,Nsukka,Ndoki,Asa, etc, still retained their distinctive nature, they have their own languages with dialects, and even organizations, but it's all still done under the Igbo umbrella.

This is not the same with what Igbo denials in Anioma are seeking.