prinzfavian:


lol, are you for real?
Free will is an illusion, really? I choose to eat cos I'm hungry, hence I have no control over that.... What about when I fast, am i not hungry? .... Why could I've had control over my hunger?.. .. Oh, it's been destined that I was gonna fast... Right? Tar!

I'm commenting on Nairaland cos am bored... Really? No where else to go... Facebook, Twitter, insta.... and the likes... What about if I don't have any megabytes to browse on my phone... But I'm bored... I guess I just have to steal to get mb... Since it's been destined that I must come on Nairaland when I'm bored. Haba, think now...

So God that predestines stuffs, also destined atheist not to believe that he exist... Wawu, for real? For what purpose would he have done that? Think dear.... Even the likes of Evans and boko haram is God's doing... Is just a script he has written long ago that is playing out right? Abegi...

He has given us the gift of freewill... And what we have today individually is as a result of our actions... There is no such thing has destiny, we ain't robots... Even animals aren't controlled by destiny, not to talk of humans...

When we tend to overcome this notion of destiny, then we are a step closer to knowing the truth about life.

Emzyme:
Qui sera sera

I dont know what to believe in anymore
If am confused about God
Is it destiny i will now know about

Nipeks:


You are assuming things. First, I am not a believer of "God". I have not mentioned Destiny or God anywhere. I don't know where you are getting that from.

This is not a religious war.

My logic is simple.

Your actions are shaped by your wants and fears.
You don't have absolute control over your wants and fears.

Do you understand that or you want me to elaborate?

prinzfavian:


Oh! I'm sorry if I sounded somehow.
I do understand, thanks.

tete7000:
When we work with God and key into his divine plan for us, he makes all things work together for good for those who love him and are called according to his purpose. Psalm 1 says a righteous man is like a tree planted by the river side bringing out his fruit in due season, an unrighteous man is however like a shaft driven around by wind. With God there exists destiny, outside of him, NO!
There exist in God's heart a plan for everyone at birth. This is what we called destiny. Whether we will fulfil those plan is another thing entirely. It depends on how much of God we follow. Devil is always around to ensure the plan is derailed. He uses tricks and people to ensure we never reach God's set destination for us.
Cc: ordercityweb, partnerbiz3

Amberon11:
Whoever started that lie must have been very daft. What will be is what you permit. So was Nigeria destined to be a failed state?,

Nipeks:


I did not mention destiny anywhere because it sounded too religious. I am not a poor religious individual. I am not religious at all.
My post was strictly philosophical.

I understand how you reason.
Unlike me, your post is full of claims but no logical explanation.
I am an honest truth seeker. I am not trying to win an argument.
I have read your post with an open mind but you have not explained how "the reverse is the case".


Let me elaborate with one of your examples.

People have saved and reinvested and still had bad luck. Something beyond their control.

Some people tend to save and reinvest because they understand the value of money. Understanding the value of money is not something anybody or everybody is born with.
But you can learn it right?
Someone who grew up under the mentorship of an economist is more likely to be successful than one who grew up under a gambler.

These are not things you choose for yourself but they influence every choice you make directly or indirectly.

The choices you make are relative to the situation you find yourself.

I like to think I have absolute control but I cannot ignore facts.

WetinConsignMe:


How about people.who.don't.believe.in.God.or devil and are doing.just fine - like seun.or what's that.facebook founder's name

ojoisimi:

Good luck Jonathan is a solid example to prove that destiny is real. just checkout the guy's history to understand what I'm saying. you said he became the president cos of empty promises that caught the electorates and bribery right? buy do you know a lot of aspirants have done the same thing but were not voted for? the biological factors you are talking about are just human idea and assumption that we are taught to believe in school. ask yourself why a medical doctor dies from a migraine while a mad man who consumes all filthy things live longer. is it that the doctor refuses to apply medication or what really happened? people have been talking about working hard to be successful but do you know a lot of people didn't do half the work you are doing and are swimming I'm millions? is it that they are more brilliant? I Dont think so. what can you say about a Prof who has really worked hard to attain that level but not as successful as an illiterate gambler who made one big hit and shoot up from their. some things are beyond human comprehension and control while some are within our control.

OrdercityWeb:

You mentioned St Paul, if i may ask was his conversion his doing?
Did he influence the divine appearance of Yeshua Hama5shiach to himself?

ojoisimi:

Good luck Jonathan is a solid example to prove that destiny is real. just checkout the guy's history to understand ……ntrol.

Nipeks:



My logic is simple.

Your actions are shaped by your wants and fears.
You don't have absolute control over your wants and fears.

Do you understand that or you want me to elaborate?

tosyne2much:
I don't believe in destiny, it's an African mentality. Every man plays a major role in determining his future.

When people die untimely death, it's not that it has been destined that the person will be killed by Boko Haram invasion, illness, robbers or the person will die in an auto crash. Human errors, wisdom, ignorance, personal decisions, carelessness and environmental factors are the vehicle that determine people's destiny. And

However, nobody is destined to be rich or poor. It all depends on how life treats you. The fairness and unfairness of life makes people rich or remain poor

To each his own opinion

thoth:
Both St Paul and St Augustine wrote decisively on the autonomy of the will, as such the most crucial point is that if the freewill and how others of stronger will might influence the will of others, though they delicately tried to fit this within th3 Christian cosmology one can say that Paul's conversion was a result of a stronger will being imposed on his, not necessary God's but that of the Evangelists of the time. If one can do away with the fantastism of Biblical events such events as Paul's conversion and that of others are can just be reduced to a stronger will on the side of the Evangelist and effects of results from the actions of others, think Butterfly Effect(Fallout).
So Paul's conversion to Christianity is no different than you wearing a cardigan on a cold harmattan, it's just a result of a stronger effect(will) imposed on yours and your Sapient capacity to adapt hence protecting your person with the cardigan.
Extremists might want to extend this scenario to the choice of color of the cardigan you wore, for that i think it will suffice to say that picking one particular cardigan out about twelve in your wardrobe is just a result of you employing your freewill, after contemplating what color or thickness best matches your private intention for the said event. hence all is a result of our freewill or adapting to the results of others actions which also arises from their own freewill.
The concept of destiny was further shattered from the events on the Garden of Eden, if Destiny is by God then why did Adam and Eve disobey God ? does it mean that God 's creation is imperfect hence an imperfect God ? If God had fixed the destiny of Adam,Eve,David etc then why get angry at them when they erred ? Such must be a confusing God which i know our God is not. taking this concept of destiny further then one can say their is nothing like evil men since God that created them set forth such destiny for them and thus they are destined to go to hell, now you can see that this is quite contrary to God's purpose for man.

Akwaudene87:
and what do you think that made others to be treated fairly and other unfairly

ojoisimi:

Good luck Jonathan is a solid example to prove that destiny is real. just checkout the guy's history to understand what I'm saying. you said he became the president cos of empty promises that caught the electorates and bribery right? buy do you know a lot of aspirants have done the same thing but were not voted for? the biological factors you are talking about are just human idea and assumption that we are taught to believe in school. ask yourself why a medical doctor dies from a migraine while a mad man who consumes all filthy things live longer. is it that the doctor refuses to apply medication or what really happened? people have been talking about working hard to be successful but do you know a lot of people didn't do half the work you are doing and are swimming I'm millions? is it that they are more brilliant? I Dont think so. what can you say about a Prof who has really worked hard to attain that level but not as successful as an illiterate gambler who made one big hit and shoot up from their. some things are beyond human comprehension and control while some are within our control.

prinzfavian:


Lol, don't be confused about God... You can believe whatever you want to but make sure it's the truth and reasonable.
No such thing as destiny, no one predetermines what will happen to us in life... Our every seconds actions does.

There is a causative factor for everything in life, your previous action results In another one and goes 9n like that in a long chain of events...

For instance,... sexual intercourse is meant for married couple if we are to avoid the stress that comes from the after effect of premarital Sex..,. Now let's say we have two stubborn people that still went ahead to have Sex without being married, the gurl got pregnant... Since they were young, she had to abort to save herself from shame and disgrace, unfortunately she died while aborting... Now tell me, if that situation had been destined by God from the onset... For what purpose has it served if it ended this way... Also, doesn't he frown against fornication? So why destine the girl to have a child thru a means he sorely hates... Since he had the power to predestine, why couldn't he have predestined them to get married before having the child?.... Going on and on... We will come to see that everything is wrong with the concept of destiny...

LordKO:
A stone can't move itself. And I've never seen a genius who isn't ingenious. Also an innate aptitude that isn't shaped through action can never manifest fully. This is for destiny.

Meanwhile, the phrase "whatever will be will be" is only truest and potent after conscious maximum efforts has been put in place for whatever cause one's expectant of result on.

In summary, the course of a man in life can be altered.

thoth:
Wrong, Our Freewill precedes our actions, hence you have in the same theater of war parties trying to achieve opposing aims which is to totally annihilate each other. They all might want to succeed but may not have the will to dog it out.
in the same length two broke men might come to different outcomes when one might decide to rob a bank and the other to go into farming. the Bank robber's outcome is determined by the strength of the will of the security guards to protect their lot, he might emerge a wealthy man if his will dominates theirs or might lose his life as well. the Agric guy might make a living from his venture or killed by a Bank Robber on his way to withdraw money to buy farming tools.

tete7000:


Fine is relative. 'ipture always uses the word 'prosper' not 'wealthy' or 'rich'. Infact it warns: if your riches increase, do not put your heart to it, for a man's life is not secured by what he has. A wicked man (a godless man included in this definition) the scripture says is like a grass that grows on the rooftop, today he is there, tomorrow he is gone and gone without a trace. Only God establishes forever.

tosyne2much:
No such thing as destiny and this is very evident in the story of Adam and Eve. God gave them the power to choose between life and death and they chose the latter. Or should we say that it has been destined that Adam and Eve will betray God?

Like I said earlier, nobody is destined to die in an auto crash, carelessness and lack of safety precautions causes mostly result in auto crash. No father is destined to sleep with his own daughter, no man is destined to marry a troublesome wife and vice versa. Seun Osewa was not destined to own Nairaland.

The term "destiny" is only used to encourage people to accept their fate especially when they have tried their best and things are not working out

StaffofOrayan:




My reference to Nigerian politics/elected politician is an example of the concept, You are right about not being in control because you cannot control all eventualities that is a very obvious deduction, The theory of cause and effect is that the first is SOMEWHAT responsible for the second, and the second is PARTLY dependent on the first. It doesn't mean you control the universe, Destiny is a superstition just like the idea of Bad Luck, another emotional rational, example, the farmer whose farm is flooded on the day of harvest is not 'unlucky' that is just vain pride, the rain did not fall because of him, neither does the universe revolve around him. Hence his inability to anticipate nature (NOT NATURE ITSELF) is the causative factor of his ruined produce - which is an effect, The idea is not to control the effect but anticipate and perfect the cause
Personally I believe in Murphy's law "things will go wrong in any given situation, if you give them a chance," or widely used one, "whatever can go wrong, will go wrong."

PS: if my initial response was brash, my bad.

Nipeks:


Sarcasm?

You don't have to stop if you have a point to prove.

Maybe if I used emoticons, you would know I'm not offended.



I want to be wrong if proven wrong.

Nipeks:



Your initial response was not harsh at all.

You have agreed that you are not in control because you cannot control all eventualities.

It is easy to take credit after trying very hard and everything eventually fell into place.
Maybe you even pulled some strings yourself that contributed to everything falling into place.
But not everybody has the strength, opportunity, motivation e.t.c that you had. They did not choose not to have those advantages.
If those disadvantages are factors that determine their will power then they are not also in control of their will power.
But even will power is not enough. There are people who tried harder and pulled more strings than you but didn't succeed because of the situation beyond their control.

If you roll a dice 1 million times under the same condition (e.g the size and shape of the dice, the direction and speed of the dice, the motion of the hand rolling the dice etc.) you will also get the same result. The dice may think it's size and shape is a factor that influenced the outcome but it did not choose the cause of its size and shape, therefore, it did not choose the outcome.

Free Will is literally not free will.

WetinConsignMe:


Well, the bible also says that those who.worship the Lord.will.prosper here on.earth. However you define it if someone.clearly suffers and then dies and his children inherits the suffering, I don't see how you.can.say.they prospered.more than.someone who.clearly had it all, had a glorious burial and his progeny's wellbeing assured for generations.

Nipeks:



Your initial response was not harsh at all.

You have agreed that you are not in control because you cannot control all eventualities.

It is easy to take credit after trying very hard and everything eventually fell into place.
Maybe you even pulled some strings yourself that contributed to everything falling into place.
But not everybody has the strength, opportunity, motivation e.t.c that you had. They did not choose not to have those advantages.
If those disadvantages are factors that determine their will power then they are not also in control of their will power.
But even will power is not enough. There are people who tried harder and pulled more strings than you but didn't succeed because of the situation beyond their control.

If you roll a dice 1 million times under the same condition (e.g the size and shape of the dice, the direction and speed of the dice, the motion of the hand rolling the dice etc.) you will also get the same result. The dice may think it's size and shape is a factor that influenced the outcome but it did not choose the cause of its size and shape, therefore, it did not choose the outcome.

Free Will is literally not free will.

Nipeks:


I get your point. The stronger your will power, the higher your chance of success.

But why do some people have stronger will than others?

tosyne2much:
Of course it is, but what I'm trying to say is that, that someone refuses to date you has nothing to do with destiny

However, it might just be due to the fact that you're not the person's taste, hence, it will never work out no matter how much you try to convince that person to date you

Hope you get me?

tosyne2much:
Bringing romance into this is not a stance to justify destiny.

There's nobody destined to be anybody's husband or wife. It all depends on our choices and preferences

Benekruku:



Your re contracting yourself.

Is it real. Yes or No!