₦airaland Forum

Gggg102:
you are getting his point backwards.


lemme put it this way

hockey is a type of sport = false witness is a type of lie


government banned hockey = ten commandments banned false witness

banning hockey does not mean banning all sports since hockey is not all sports = banning false witness does not mean banning all lies since false witness is not all lies.


notice the equivalence are
hockey = false witness
sport = lies

Exactly!!!!
I dunno how many times I'll explain this to him before he would get it so I gave up once I realised I was talking to a brick wall

hopefulLandlord:
Exactly!!!!
I dunno how many times I'll explain this to him before he would get it so I gave up once I realised I was talking to a brick wall

lol


his error was when he stated

false witness is a type of lie but hockey isn't all sports.

when it is

false witness is a type of lie= hockey is a type of sport.
or
hockey isn't all sports =false witness isn't all lie.

Gggg102:
you are getting his point backwards.


lemme put it this way

hockey is a type of sport = false witness is a type of lie


government banned hockey = ten commandments banned false witness

banning hockey does not mean banning all sports since hockey is not all sports = banning false witness does not mean banning all lies since false witness is not all lies.


notice the equivalence are
hockey = false witness
sport = lies

hopefulLandlord: Exactly!!!!
I dunno how many times I'll explain this to him before he would get it so I gave up once I realised I was talking to a brick wall

Gggg102: lol


his error was when he stated

false witness is a type of lie but hockey isn't all sports.

when it is

false witness is a type of lie= hockey is a type of sport.
or
hockey isn't all sports =false witness isn't all lie.

ha ha such girlies

as i have said before, my point has always been: the 10 commandments prohibits lying,
and false witness against your neighbour is lying

Exo_20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

but play on in your confusion, and with your hockey and false witness and lies comparisons, smile

Seun:
Is lying forbidden in the Ten Commandments? I don’t think so. Please provide the source. Thanks.

Yes. See the decalogue.

UnchangeableGod:
"Thou shall not bear false witness" means thou shall not lie. Rahab was a sinner as at the time she saved the Isrseli spies. She was a harlot as at then. So a sinner just have to sin. The Bible did not praise Rahab for her sin of lying. Rather, the Scriptures only praised her faith in the God of Israel which made her to risk committing 'treason' in order to save God's ambassadors (although they were strangers) believing that she and her household would be rewarded and protected by the Israeli God. She had faith in God which she put into action. That is the point. There are things a believer can learn from unbelievers.

Well said. Even though I believe God would still have protected the spies if Rahab did not bear false witness.

UnchangeableGod:
No sir. It was her faith in the God of Israel that was praised. Rahab was a sinner who exhibited saving faith which her family benefited from.

Way to go! Rahab was blessed because she received the spies with peace (Hebrews 11:31). "As many as received Him to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name (John 1:12).

AlfaSeltzer:
All these biblical oloshos are not examples to be set for our young girls.

Get away from xtianity. Get away from foreign religion.

That means there is hope for you in Christ.

Seun:
It means “you shall not give false testimony against your neighbour”, according to NIV. In other words, don’t falsely accuse your neighbor of a crime s/he didn’t commit. The Ten Commandments only forbid this specific type of lie. You can tell all sorts of lies without breaking any of the Ten Commandments.

Did Rahab bear false witness or not?

Seun:
No, it suggests that the Ten Commandments are not the timeless moral standard that they are made out to be. They were written for ancient Jews and not for modern Christians.

It says “don’t give false testimonies” instead of “don’t lie” because their entire legal system was based on testimonies. There was nothing like “forensic evidence”, “dna testing”, “checking alibis”, “defense attorneys” or “innocent until proven guilty”. If any two or three people (i.e. Jewish men) falsely accused you of murder, you would almost certainly be stoned to death.

If God existed, he would have taught them a thing or two about forensics because the commandment didn’t stop bad people from giving false testimonies. Modern research has shown that even honest testimonies are not very reliable because people often remember things incorrectly.

Have you made false witness against your neighbour?

profolaolu:
Rehab was commended not because she lied but because she hide the spies and sent them away,that is why she was justify by work not by the word of her mouth or confession

It took faith in God for her to hide the spies, knowing very well the consequences if she got caught. Without faith, we cannot please God.

johnw74:
yes rahab was justified for her works because her works showed her faith

Correct!

skillful01:
I can't say... but some lies are harmless.

There is a certain lady called "Hope" in the Trump Government had to resign for telling "White lies."

awesomeJ:
Mr Seun, would you consider this thought?
"If contrary to my position, God existed, wouldn't my intellect on the scale of His be so infinitesimal, that it would only spell an utter embarrassment to His personality, and a pride on my part to think that I could be the one who knows better as to instruct him on the best way to administer justice?"

Forensics, you pointed that out as something that would have helped to avert a case of people bearing false testimonies out of their wickedness right?

You have to recognize here that the real problem you're trying to guard against is a man's wickedness against his neighbour, and merely ruling out the testimony option doesn't fix that.

As you probably know, there are several other instances recorded in the scriptures where people have plotted evil against other men, without having to resort to the use of false testimonies. Haman against Mordecai, Absalom against David, etc.

So, even if God had decided to work with the available technology of those times, to establish forensics, it's certain it wouldn't have fixed the root cause of the abuse of the testimony concept-which is the evil nature of the hearts of men.

Even with circumstantial evidence atheists still refuse to accept the existence or resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.

awesomeJ:
Regarding the topic.
The scriptures did not say that rahab was justified for her lies, it was for her efforts at saving the spies that she was justified. The means she used was not praised, but the act of saving those folks was what was praised.
If Rahab was to be a modern day Christian, she would have been rebuked for telling a lie, however she would have been commended for taking a bold step at saving the lives of the spies, and encouraged to seek ways that do not violate God's standards, should she have to handle similar situations in the future.

For a better perspective,
Let's say your only child is in a state of emergency, and needs an urgent surgery that'll cost 25m, which you do not have. Now, you meet a senator who offers to pay the 25m with funds that may have been looted.

Some one may thereafter commend the senator, but it wouldn't be his looting, they'd be commending, it would be his effort at saving your only child.

If Rahab did not lie God would still have protected those spies but for Rahab lies we have been denied the chance to see how God would have done it.

Desyner:
Lying is forbidden but I can't see how Rahab was praised for lying here.
She was justified for accomodating the messengers and not misleading the pursuers. Correct me if I am wrong.
Cc: olaadegbu.
In Exodus 1:16-20, when the midwives decieved the King of Egypt regarding the Isrealites' first born they were actually suppose to be killing, in verse 21 "because they feared God", in verses 20 God dealt well with the midwives.
The motive of deception was key in those context. Rahab was already an harlot. God had been using the heart even in the old testament to judge deeds. It isn't a new testament phenomenon.

Correct.

OLAADEGBU:
Even with circumstantial evidence atheists still refuse to accept the existence or resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.

That's how it is with them o. Even if God appears in the sky, they will still claim it's not God. They'd say it's just an alien from another galaxy.

Seun:
"Neighbour" in the old testament usually means a fellow Jew who worships the same God. That's why the same God that said "love your neighbour as yourself" also led Joshua to kill all the babies in Jericho, a city that never attacked the Israelites. An unprovoked genocide.

Do you believe those biblical stories really happened?

UnchangeableGod:
Amen. Same to you and other lovers of truth, godliness and right living.

Amen.

OLAADEGBU:
If Rahab did not lie God would still have protected those spies but for Rahab lies we have been denied the chance to see how God would have done it.

Brilliant thoughts there my brother. And I'm sure we can still know for sure how God would have done it, when we get to ask Him in person in heaven.

ichuka:
A lie is a lie.just as white,blue and black witches are same

Someone had to resign from her political post in the U.S. for telling white lies. Can that happen in our Obodo country?

awesomeJ:
Brilliant thoughts there my brother. And I sure we can still know for sure how God would have done it, when we get to ask Him in person in heaven.

The more reason why we should not miss the flight. Let us stay rapturable my brother.

DeSepiero:
If Satan is father of lies, highlight at least 3 bible verses where he lied.

To corroborate John 8:44 that my brother, Johnw74, quoted when Jesus said that satan is the father of lies, let me give you the 3 bible verses you requested for:

1. Genesis 3:1-5 Where satan lied to our first parents, Adam and Eve, that they would become "as gods" if they believed his lies rather than the Word of God, which is the lie of humanism which makes men and women as the apex of the evolutionary process and thereby making themselves the true gods of the world. This we can see happening before us with these folks identifying themselves as atheists, humanists, evolutionists and the like.

2. Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceives the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." This father of lies has been deceiving and drawing folks away from the God of creation.

3. He is the god of this world that has been binding the minds of unbelievers (2 Corinthians 4:4). If not these folks would have seen their impending doom and thereby save themselves from pain by obeying the command to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus to be saved.

4. Satan is the author of the evolution lie, that is seeking to control the world without its Creator.

Last but not the least, is that satan has deceived himself first by convincing himself that both he and God had evolved out of the primeval chaos as being recycled by many ancient mythical theories as being believed today.

So, Jesus was telling the truth when He said that satan is the father of lies from the beginning.

Emmanystone:
The Question shd be, "Was Rahab a Jewess who shd know the Laws of YHWH? No.
Did she tell the Jewish Spies what she was going to say if asked? No.

Did they tell her to lie? No

She was a heathen with her own personal agenda, and She didn't ask Joshua if she could hide the Spies. she just did her thing and the Spies saved her for hiding them, not for lying to the Security operatives, as she didn't tell them what she would say.

Being a heathen did not absolve her from telling lies because the Moral Law of God was universal but I agree with you that she was not praised for bearing false witness.

hopefulLandlord:
The 10 commandments are written in the book of revelations

Se.un is asking where lying is prohibited in the 10 commandments as asserted by Olaadegbu in the OP

Check the 9th commandment in the Decalogue where it says "you shall not lie" in today's English.

Emmanystone:
Thou shall not bare false witness against someone is 'Thou shall not lie against someone.

Good job!

hopefulLandlord:
Which is exactly Se.un's point!

"Bearing false witness" is, simply put, a type of lie but one can easily lie without bearing false witness
If the federal government Bans Hockey in Nigeria, it doesn't mean the government banned "Sports" as one can still partake in many other sports without playing Hockey and it would be perfectly legal. that's because Hockey is just type of sport

FG's ban on Gay marriage doesn't mean they're banning marriage as a whole but rather banning a specific type of marriage

I think Olaadegbu saying lying is prohibited in the 10 commandments is definitely not true

If bearing false witness is a type of lie, are you saying Rahab did not lie against her neighbour?

hopefulLandlord:
and this is NOT the question, we are asking where lying is prohibited in the 10 commandments like Olaadegbu is asserting. if you can't bring it up then it won't be out of place to agree Olaadegbu's assertion is false

The question of the OP "Is there anything like a righteous lie" before you atheists turned the title upon its head by saying that bearing false witness is not lying. If it is not lying what is it? And if you agree that it is lying then what is the problem?

hopefulLandlord:
Bros I would prefer your following a discussion and not muddle things up to fit your preconceived notions

1. Olaadegbu asserted in the OP that "lying" is prohibited in the "10 commandments"

2. Seun challenged that claim by asking where it is prohibited

3. The number 9th commandment was given as the answer

4. Seun challenged that claim by explaining - clearly - why it doesn't prohibit lying but a specific type of lying

if you have to bring proverbs and Revelation into it then you've tacitly admitted lying is not prohibited in the ten commandments! If Olaadegbu had said "The bible is against lying" then your explanations would've jived


Let me give you an example

My Girlfriend asks me "HopefulLandlord, have you eaten today?" I replied "No! Amy" even though I've actually eaten and I infact just ate an hour before she asked me the question

Johnw74, Did I lie? Yes/No?

Did I bear "False witness/testimony" against my neighbor? Yes/No?

If you bore false witness in a court of law would you say you lied or not?

johnw74:
he was right, lying is prohibited in the 10 commandments:

Exo_20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

^^^ you must think that's not lying

They must think it is not lying. Anyway, truth to them is relative.

johnw74:
see once again, the OP was right, lying is prohibited in the 10 commandments,
because it's a certain type of lie doesn't alter that fact

Good job!

AlfaSeltzer:
Come to Satan.
Come and gain some wisdom.

satan, your father is the father of lies and would soon meet his Waterloo.

ReinaFarine:
I think the point hopefullandlord, Seun and others are tryna make is like a set Venn diagram. The universal set is lie and false witness is a subset of Lie. True.

But lies are a funny thing y'know. Bearing false witness against yourself is still false witness. Tell your girl you didn't eat, that is a false witness against yourself. And so yes, you lied, yes you bore false witness.

Rahab bore false witness. She said she didn't know where they are but they were in her house. She knew. That witness or evidence was false.

Good job!