₦airaland Forum

Hairyrapunzel:
Did you see exception of the father there? And yes Jesus is before all things. Come and beat me

Oga, go look for verse that said Mountains are created in the Bible


When you find it. , come back here and talk

removetheturban:
What is your definition of begotten?
Is there any Bible reference to support your answer?

I will always clear ur doubt ur a learner.

John uses begotten in John 3 :16 to show Jesus as uniquely God's Son—sharing the same divine nature as God—as opposed to believers who are God's sons and daughters by adoption (Ephesians 1:5). Jesus is God’s “one and only” Son.

Peacefullove:
My question still stand Bruh, Jesus was called Son of God ? Yes or no. Tell us why ? Cos even Adam was called son of God too.



Using your logic of no exception

The same Bible said Jesus was before ALL things ? No exception of his Father ?

Adam was the created son of God whom he made in His image and likeness. Do you have a problem with that?

Your second question is foolish for no where did the scripture says JESUS is before the Father. All things means things that exist and was created, Jesus is before them and by him JEHOVAH made them.

removetheturban:
How can you explain Proverbs 8:24 and 27?

Proverbs 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

Proverb 8 is figuratively describing wisdom.

Before building a house you plan and you make use of wisdom and you must possess that wisdom before you start that building, in proverb 8:24,27
Solomon is saying the same thing, before the heavens, earth were created wisdom was brought forth ( existed and was employed).
It does not literally mean wisdom was created or born it means wisdom as a quality was employed.

Peacefullove:
See your life . hahahaha

Who tell you that , the Bible said begotten is figuratively ?

Its figurative in the case of Isaac too I guess ?

So when Paul said he had begotten onesimus, it must be either paul gave birth to onesimus or he created onesimus.
Philemon 1:10 I beseech thee for my son Onesimus, whom I have begotten in my bonds:

Peacefullove:
Now take your advice and read according to context as well. The same bible chapter says

Jesus is the First BORN of Creation ... How was he born ? Of creation ?

Answer that

Psalms 89:27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.

First born of every creature means Jesus is the most exalted one a fulfillment of the promise made by God to david

Peacefullove:


Hahahaha, so your bible Lied by calling him begotten son ?





Twins of God OR son of God?

Definition of a son please and let's see if the Jargon's you put up there will Still stand



Brainless individual speaks like this :

Define a son ? And also tell why his Father was never addressed as son of anyone if been a son doesn't mean been created ?

Is Father should have been called son as well since it has nothing to do with creation status

a son is the male child of someone. A son maybe given birth to or may not.

Peacefullove:
Where is your sense Sir ?

Beginning of a river is PART of the River .

Beginning of Creation is Part of Creation , agreed ?

your sense is far! If the source of a river is a mountain does that make the mountain a river?

Peacefullove:
Oga, go look for verse that said Mountains are created in the Bible


When you find it. , come back here and talk

if a son is begotten by the father it means the son share of the same substance of the man. If Jesus is the only begotten Son, it would also mean Jesus share the same substance with God this would make Jesus God.
Since God is not made then Jesus was not made!

Peacefullove:
Oga, go look for verse that said Mountains are created in the Bible


When you find it. , come back here and talk

Go and look for where it said the Son of God was a created being. Abi no passage on that? Speculation believer

Peacefullove:
Somebody should come and bail Hairyrapunzel here, and help him answer the questions.

Bible did not say mountains are created. Its all speculation ?

Somebody should come and bail peaceful love to tell me where God called the mountain his only begotten son.
Show me the verse in the Bible that said Jesus was a created being. Abi no show?

Peacefullove:


And that make him Son of God right ?

The same way I am a child of God. Show me the verse that they said the son of God was a created being. Abi no verse?

Ihateyoumod:
I will always clear ur doubt ur a learner.

Yeah, right!

Ihateyoumod:
John uses begotten in John 3 :16 to show Jesus as uniquely God's Son

I asked you for the meaning of begotten but you only made references. Will you explain what begotten means?

Ihateyoumod:
—sharing the same divine nature as God

Can you explain what you mean by 'nature'?

Ihateyoumod:
—as opposed to believers who are God's sons and daughters by adoption (Ephesians 1:5).

How about the angels who are also referred to as sons. Were they adopted? If yes, when?

Ihateyoumod:
Jesus is God’s “one and only” Son.

Try to understand your sentence. Jesus is + God's + one and only son.

Jesus = God's son.

son of + God

Two separate individuals with distinctive roles. A son and his father. You called the father God and you believe that God has a son. The name of his son is Jesus. That means the name of the son of God is Jesus.

What are you then arguing about?

Are you trying to prove what core Trinitarians call a mystery?

Are you trying to solve the Trinitarian mystery?

If you solve this mystery, would it still be a mystery?

Is the Trinity a mystery to you?

John 17:22 Jesus said the substance himself. JUST AS he and God are one.

solite3:
if a son is begotten by the father it means the son share of the same substance of the man. If Jesus is the only begotten Son, it would also mean Jesus share the same substance with God this would make Jesus God.
Since God is not made then Jesus was not made!

If you accept this verse, then, why did you refute Proverbs 8:22?

You have been arguing that proverbs was about wisdom. But you cannot say if wisdom was produced before the heavens. Now, in the chapter that you quoted, the following verse in 35 says David.

Psalms 89:35
Once for all, I have sworn by my holiness—
and I will not lie to David

So, why would you accept this chapter and then discredit Proverbs 8:22? Isn't that double standard?

solite3:
Psalms 89:27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.

First born of every creature means Jesus is the most exalted one a fulfillment of the promise made by God to david

solite3:
Proverbs 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

Proverb 8 is figuratively describing wisdom.

Before building a house you plan and you make use of wisdom and you must possess that wisdom before you start that building,

hahaha Ludicrous. My ribs almost came out.
No disrespect but I lost it for a minute.

Proverbs 8:32 talks about the sons. Does wisdom have sons? When did she have them before or after the heavens?
32 And now, my sons, listen to me;
Yes, happy are those who keep my ways.

Proverbs 8:30 if wisdom were a 'she' why was a masculine gender used to qualify her?

If Wisdom was there before the heavens and the earth, does it mean that John 1:1 and Genesis 1:1 lied about who was beside God? And about the heavens and the earth being created in the beginning?

Was there a she before the creation of the heavens and the earth?

solite3:
in proverb 8:24,27

Solomon is saying the same thing, before the heavens, earth were created wisdom was brought forth ( existed and was employed).
It does not literally mean wisdom was created or born it means wisdom as a quality was employed.

[b][/b]

)[quote author=removetheturban post=66957891]hahaha Ludicrous. My ribs almost came out.
No disrespect but I lost it for a minute.

Proverbs 8:32 talks about the sons. Does wisdom have sons? When did she have them before or after the heavens?
32 And now, my sons, listen to me;
Yes, happy are those who keep my ways.

where did that mention wisdom children? Yea you can laugh but it is the truth
It is there in the bible.
Before Jehovah made the mountains wisdom was brought forth ( consulted or employed). In some translation wisdom was like a craftsman.
Or did Jehovah not use wisdom his creation?

Proverbs 8:30 if wisdom were a 'she' why was a masculine gender used to qualify her?

masculine gender was never used to qualify wisdom maybe its your wrong translation

If Wisdom was there before the heavens and the earth, does it mean that John 1:1 and Genesis 1:1 lied about who was beside God? And about the heavens and the earth being created in the beginning?

Was there a she before the creation of the heavens and the earth?

sorry to ask did you go to school at all? Didn't I tell you proverb 8 was figurative? Were you not told wisdom was personified?

As for your question yes wisdom has been existing from eternity.
Or you Want to tell me there was a time Jehovah has no wisdom.

removetheturban:
John 17:22 Jesus said the substance himself. JUST AS he and God are one.

then you have no argument! If Jesus has the same substance of the Almighty God then he is Almighty God.

removetheturban:
If you accept this verse, then, why did you refute Proverbs 8:22?

You have been arguing that proverbs was about wisdom. But you cannot say if wisdom was produced before the heavens. Now, in the chapter that you quoted, the following verse in 35 says David.

Psalms 89:35
Once for all, I have sworn by my holiness—
and I will not lie to David

So, why would you accept this chapter and then discredit Proverbs 8:22? Isn't that double standard?

for the umpteenth time I did not refute proverb 8. U are been mischevious.
I
Yes applied that vers because some prophecy made to David were not really for David but for the messiah. Such verses that refer to the messiah are called messianic verses.
That does not mean every verse should be applied to Jesus..

Was wisdom created before the heavens?

solite3:
for the umpteenth time I did not refute proverb 8. U are been mischevious.
I
Yes applied that vers because some prophecy made to David were not really for David but for the messiah. Such verses that refer to the messiah are called messianic verses.
That does not mean every verse should be applied to Jesus..

By your argument, Jesus followers are also the Almighty. Do you subscribe to that?

solite3:
then you have no argument! If Jesus has the same substance of the Almighty God then he is Almighty God.

removetheturban:
Was wisdom created before the heavens?

wisdom wasn't created.

Ihateyoumod:
I will always clear ur doubt ur a learner.

Are you scared ni

Define begotten ?

Am waiting

John uses begotten in John 3 :16 to show Jesus as uniquely God's Son—sharing the same divine nature as God— as opposed to believers who are God's sons and daughters by adoption (Ephesians 1:5). Jesus is God’s “one and only” Son.

Learner

Even your Bible confirm it that humans will share the Divine nature of God too .


Going by your silly definition of what begotten is, , Can we now say this humans are uncreated so far they share Gods divine nature ?

Secondly, since having the divine nature is the meaning of begotten according to you .. Does that mean Jesus wasn't even only begotten son ?



Am waiting .

removetheturban:
By your argument, Jesus followers are also the Almighty. Do you subscribe to that?

I don't understand you

bloodofthelamb:
Adam was the created son of God whom he made in His image and likeness. Do you have a problem with that?

Jesus was also in Gods image as well bruh

Then it means , Jesus was also created to have been called Son of God , right ??

Be sincere with your self

Your second question is foolish for no where did the scripture says JESUS is before the Father. All things means things that exist and was created, Jesus is before them and by him JEHOVAH made them.

Your argument now is that ALL things is not absolute right . apply that the next time you read that all things was made through Jesus. It doesn't mean he himself is not a creation . All things is not Absolute.

Am still waiting for why Jesus and the angels are called Son of God ! ?

solite3:
Proverbs 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

Proverb 8 is figuratively describing wisdom.

Before building a house you plan and you make use of wisdom and you must possess that wisdom before you start that building, in proverb 8:24,27
Solomon is saying the same thing, before the heavens, earth were created wisdom was brought forth ( existed and was employed).
It does not literally mean wisdom was created or born it means wisdom as a quality was employed.

funny set of people

Following your logic :

Psalm 90 vs 2 said the Earth was brought forth as well, it means it wasn't created ?

solite3:
where did that mention wisdom children?

Proverbs 8:32 And now, my sons,

solite3:
Yea you can laugh but it is the truth
It is there in the bible.
Before Jehovah made the mountains wisdom was brought forth ( consulted or employed). In some translation wisdom was like a craftsman.
Or did Jehovah not use wisdom his creation?

As an educated person, did you read there that wisdom was 'used'?
Proverbs 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there;

Read the above for understanding.

solite3:
masculine gender was never used to qualify wisdom maybe its your wrong translation

http://biblehub.com/proverbs/8-30.htm
Use the above link and compare other Trinitarian Bibles for reference.

Do you still hold that a feminine gender was used to qualify wisdom?

solite3:
sorry to ask did you go to school at all?

You need a mirror.

solite3:
Didn't I tell you proverb 8 was figurative?

Good to know that you understand the figurative language. Using your knowledge, let us delve into the figurative sense of these expressions. What is the significance of Wisdom in these figurative expressions?

solite3:
Were you not told wisdom was personified?

We will open up the expressions beginning from Proverbs 8:1 King James 2000 Bible
Does not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?

Now, you will begin by specifying which of the voices is heard and personified. That of wisdom or that of understanding.

solite3:
As for your question yes wisdom has been existing from eternity.

So, what was created in Proverbs 8:22?
New Living Translation
"The LORD formed me from the beginning, before he created anything else.

solite3:
Or you Want to tell me there was a time Jehovah has no wisdom.

You are the one saying that because the chapter is talking about Jesus and then you are blaspheming against Jehovah by saying that his wisdom is the one created in Proverbs 8:22.

You made up a doctrine and you are trying to mystify me with your final question. That is a slothy move.
Did you deduce in your mind that I am a spring chicken? You are floating in a cesspit of heretical myth.

You are selling a pandemic heresy online simply to uphold a heretic Trinity. Bro, where is your mind? At this rate you could even sell your Bible to defend the Trinity which is not nice.

Who then is lying, you or your Bible?

What was created in Proverbs 8:22?

New International Version
"The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;

New Living Translation
"The LORD formed me from the beginning, before he created anything else.

Contemporary English Version
From the beginning, I was with the LORD. I was there before he began

Good News Translation
"The LORD created me first of all, the first of his works, long ago.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
The LORD made me at the beginning of His creation, before His works of long ago.

International Standard Version
"The LORD made me as he began his planning, before his ancient activity commenced.

NET Bible
The LORD created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago.

New Heart English Bible
"The LORD created me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“Lord Jehovah created me at the beginning of his creation and from before all of his works.”

JPS Tanakh 1917
The LORD made me as the beginning of His way, The first of His works of old.

King James Bible
The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

solite3:
wisdom wasn't created.

solite3:
So when Paul said he had begotten onesimus, it must be either paul gave birth to onesimus or he created onesimus.
Philemon 1:10 I beseech thee for my son Onesimus, whom I have begotten in my bonds:

For Paul to call Onesmus a son, he was clearly not UP TO THE AGE of Paul .

Which means Paul exist before Onesmus .

Do you now accept Jesus Father EXIST before Jesus ?

solite3:
Psalms 89:27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.

First born of every creature means Jesus is the most exalted one a fulfillment of the promise made by God to david

Most exalted one among Creations ?

solite3:
a son is the male child of someone. A son maybe given birth to or may not.

In any case .
A SON is always lower in age than His Father .

There is a reason for that , because Father always exist before the son

Do you now accept Jesus Father existed before Jesus himself ?

solite3:
your sense is far! If the source of a river is a mountain does that make the mountain a river?

Beginning NOT source pls dubious one . Rev 3 vs 14 KJV

A mountain can never be the beginning of a river, The beginning refers to the starting point of the water that formed the river , so the beginning of the river is a part of the river. Likewise, the beginning of creation is a part of creation .