zodiakzax:


My friend are you conversant with the Doctrine of trinity? IF you do you will know Jesus After the resurrection is still man and God. That's why the bodily resurrection of Jesus.

Gruni1234:


I'm really shocked how simple truth is denied. I will address all relevant points soon. So many twists and turns. What's bothering me is why protect an organization when clearly has some flaws in their doctrine. Are you being paid for being there? The Jehovah witnesses here have totally disappointed me and has open my eyes to see their own deception. Just to say nothing anyone says will change the truth. I can from my own reading know and ascertain that Jesus Christ is not an angel. This is just the case. I will take all points all have made and write my final thoughts on all matters discussed so far.


@brocab, advice well received, i am not there yet but in time if he is really real then it shouldn't be a problem for him. Thank you.

Barristter07:


Am happy you are getting frustrated as your various lies are getting nailed. Continue to pour your frustrations through insult. It changes nothing

Malachi 3:1 Darby says Angel

Malachi 3:1 NWT says Messenger.

Any difference ? No, both are same judging from the root word


Your sense want them to use same wording when they didn't at Malachi 3:1 , the point is NWT translation of John 1:1 is not wrong. As evidenced by Darby doing same at Act 8:26

Until you prove that Darby is wrong at Act 28:6 , then NWT is right.




Michael is an ARCH angel

Fellow, has frustration carried you to this extent ?

Bro , I said Gruni1234 is a pretender and underground trinitarian on this thread , an objective researcher would have asked questions as Tatime said to uncover areas which might not have been evident to an average reader , Bro many trinitarians believe that there is an Angel In the old testament whose identity is Jesus . If you have the time check this trinitarian website , and you too Gruni1234, https://crossexamined.org/who-is-the-angel-of-the-lord/
it says in part it becomes evident that the angel of the Lord is none other than the pre-incarnate Christ Himself

Gruni1234:


The previous video was quite shocking, does the bible really teach to disown your own who doesnt believe in What you believe in? This is strange. Honestly, I never knew the bible taught hatred, to the point of disowning your very flesh and blood. This is absurd, Christianity is absurd. I thought Jesus taught about forgiveness and Love. I thought he said what good is it to do good to others who returns same good to you. Wow, I'm beyond speech. Speechless. Many of my friends are Christians but we go out together do stuff together, eat together, drink together, work together, they never rejected me. Are they ignorant of their own religion? So what good is there then in Christianity?

CAPTIVATOR:


Bro , I said Gruni1234 is a pretender and underground trinitarian on this thread , an objective researcher would have asked questions as Tatime said to uncover areas which might not have been evident to an average reader , Bro many trinitarians believe that there is an Angel In the old testament whose identity is Jesus . If you have the time check this trinitarian website , and you too Gruni1234, https://crossexamined.org/who-is-the-angel-of-the-lord/
it says in part it becomes evident that the angel of the Lord is none other than the pre-incarnate Christ Himself

Gruni1234:


First of my dear Friend, if I'm a Trinitarian or Unitarian doesnt really matter to me if I become a Christian. What matters to me is I follow the precept of the bible and the bible alone. If the bible tells me My God is a truine God so be it. If it doesnt so be it. I dont need anyone,group or organization to tell me how to know God.I have a brain to think and I've gone to school enough to understand English, what,how and when the bible means.

Your fellows are doing a poor job defending their beliefs , they say one and then change it to mean another. I am a witness to this, I can read and write and know logic. So what you say doesn't really matter to me. I see the way zodiakzax deals with you in verbal assault which I'm against but it seems it could just be The right means to explore given how you just attacked me.

Now get this right as your other colleague got it wrong.I want you to know most atheist do not believe the bible is fabricated, we only don't believe there's a God. Christians turn to Scholars, Atheist scholars who are very educated in the Greek language for council, they help in the Greek text and language as to what it means or not. These scholars mostly accept John 1:1 as the word being divine, and as divine means God. Your assertion that it's "a god" clearly misrepresent the verse. Many Atheist greek scholars accept it to be God not "a god" does that make them a believer that God exists? Get your facts right Young Sir.

CAPTIVATOR:


Bro , I said Gruni1234 is a pretender and underground trinitarian on this thread , an objective researcher would have asked questions as Tatime said to uncover areas which might not have been evident to an average reader , Bro many trinitarians believe that there is an Angel In the old testament whose identity is Jesus . If you have the time check this trinitarian website , and you too Gruni1234, https://crossexamined.org/who-is-the-angel-of-the-lord/
it says in part it becomes evident that the angel of the Lord is none other than the pre-incarnate Christ Himself

Gruni1234:


The previous video was quite shocking, does the bible really teach to disown your own who doesnt believe in What you believe in? This is strange. Honestly, I never knew the bible taught hatred, to the point of disowning your very flesh and blood. This is absurd, Christianity is absurd. I thought Jesus taught about forgiveness and Love. I thought he said what good is it to do good to others who returns same good to you. Wow, I'm beyond speech. Speechless. Many of my friends are Christians but we go out together do stuff together, eat together, drink together, work together, they never rejected me. Are they ignorant of their own religion? So what good is there then in Christianity?

Gruni1234:


First of my dear Friend, if I'm a Trinitarian or Unitarian doesnt really matter to me if I become a Christian. What matters to me is I follow the precept of the bible and the bible alone. If the bible tells me My God is a truine God so be it. If it doesnt so be it. I dont need anyone,group or organization to tell me how to know God.I have a brain to think and I've gone to school enough to understand English, what,how and when the bible means.

Your fellows are doing a poor job defending their beliefs , they say one and then change it to mean another. I am a witness to this, I can read and write and know logic. So what you say doesn't really matter to me. I see the way zodiakzax deals with you in verbal assault which I'm against but it seems it could just be The right means to explore given how you just attacked me.

Now get this right as your other colleague got it wrong.I want you to know most atheist do not believe the bible is fabricated, we only don't believe there's a God. Christians turn to Scholars, Atheist scholars who are very educated in the Greek language for council, they help in the Greek text and language as to what it means or not. These scholars mostly accept John 1:1 as the word being divine, and as divine means God. Your assertion that it's "a god" clearly misrepresent the verse. Many Atheist greek scholars accept it to be God not "a god" does that make them a believer that God exists? Get your facts right Young Sir.

CAPTIVATOR:


stop this pretending, it cannot help you . You are a trinitarian just admit it are you scared ? You said Jehovah witness are confused , Trinitarians are even far confused , Do you know there is an Angel in the Old testament that answered the name Yahweh which cause confusion among trinitarians some saying he ia Jesus others saying he isn't. A house divided against itself cannot stand. Research it. Now if they can claim an Angel is Jesus , only to use their second mouth to attack Jehovah's witnesses , what does that tell You ? Rubbish
. see what got question a trinitarian website said about this Angel of the Lord here : https://www.gotquestions.org/amp/angel-of-the-Lord.html


Trinitarians are confused bunch.

brocab:

So if you refuse to believe in the above, then how do you believe below?
Christians don't turn to Atheist, Christians turn to God! It was the Holy Spirit that gave the Disciples insights how to write the bible..And it is the Holy Spirit that gives us knowledge how to understand the bible.

brocab:

So if you refuse to believe in the above, then how do you believe below?
Christians don't turn to Atheist, Christians turn to God!

Gruni1234:


Here lies another problem, Jehovah Witnesses are also Christians, yet you are against a truine God, Trinitarians fighting among themselves etc doesn't matter, all matters is what the bible says and if presented well enough then you accept what it teaches. With a clear mind and an educated one Hebrews was so clear to point out that Jesus was and is not an angel. I'm not unwise to know what that means. If there's nothing clear on whether Jesus was the Angel that answers the name Yahweh or not that's not an issue to me dear friend. Besides that is in the Torah and who best can we learn the Torah from except the Jews themselves. Who did they believe this angel was? Was it the Messiah to come? Or not.

I know you will try to evade, like you said that you are following the Bible, so since an angel is called God, even Yahweh , Why are you lots shouting about Thomas calling Jesus My God Can u see you are making a lost case . since angels are called Yahweh , the Triune God is False , why not add this Angels to the league of persons in a God ?

Hebrews said Jesus has been made better than angels . self explanatory . that context explains that Chapter.

CAPTIVATOR:


I showed you something, instead of addressing it you ran to John 1:1 translation . very biased individual . on this issue of John 1:1 you have no point , Someone already pointed out that " a god " is not a wrong translation of theos . so be it. address the issue I present to you at first

Gruni1234:


I have nothing more to say, John 1:1 was an example to show you that Atheist believe in the translation as God not "a god" to tell you that an Atheist doesn't believe in God even though he was called upon. He could have just rejected them and say go away I don't believe in God, but you see we are more civil and learned to accommodate everyone. Afwtrall you can't prove God exists so why do I fight with you. God exists yet there's hunger, murder of innocent children. Then he's no God.

But it's obvious our communication,logics and comprehension of simple English language is quite on a different level. So with your case my dear friend, I have nothing more to say. You are just confirming everything zodiakzax says about your lack of intelligence.

Gruni1234:


I have nothing more to say, John 1:1 was an example to show you that Atheist believe in the translation as God not "a god" , to tell you that an Atheist doesn't believe in God even though he was called upon. He could have just rejected them and say go away I don't believe in God, but you see we are more civil and learned to accommodate everyone. Afwtrall you can't prove God exists so why do I fight with you. God exists yet there's hunger, murder of innocent children. Then he's no God.

But it's obvious our communication,logics and comprehension of simple English language is quite on a different level. So with your case my dear friend, I have nothing more to say. You are just confirming everything zodiakzax says about your lack of intelligence.

is " a god " a wrong translation ?

CAPTIVATOR:


I know you will try to evade, like you said that you are following the Bible, so since an angel is called God, even Yahweh , Why are you lots shouting about Thomas calling Jesus My God Can u see you are making a lost case . since angels are called Yahweh , the Triune God is False , why not add this Angels to the league of persons in a God ?

Hebrews said Jesus has been made better than angels . self explanatory . that context explains that Chapter.

CAPTIVATOR:


is " a god " a wrong translation ?

Gruni1234:


Yes my dear. It is, the appropriate should have been God or divine. No one had the right to assume it was a smaller god. I have done enough search into that when OneJ asked me to, and from all angles including Atheist greek scholars, the word was divine, that should be left alone as it is or as God. You become a polytheist which your very religion is against. Polytheism is the believe in many gods. So if you say the word is a god, you them say there are two gods.

TATIME:
When the inspired writers were penning down those words, was there any difference between the way they rendered the Gods of the nations to distinguish their own God,apart from using names?
Whether GOD or God or god,the Hebrews rendered all the same way. So if JEHOVAH the God of Israel is rendered as GOD, then Zeus the Greecian deity is also rendered GOD. It's the translators that started the capital and small letters.
Therefore John 1:1 could be rendered "in the beginning was the word and the word was with GOD and the word was GOD" while Exodus 7:1 could also be rendered "look i have made you GOD before Pharaoh and Aaron your brother shall be your Prophet"
It's the translators including the watchtower that's adding meaning to the inspired writings based on their respective interpretations! So whenever you see the title "god" know today that those who pronounced it back then made no distinction between the deities whether it's that of Israel or Egypt. It's the WORKS or FRUITS of each God that proves who is superior! According to 1Corinthians 8:5 "there are many GODS and LORDS" depending on how high the worshippers tries to esteem their deity,and while the worshippers from different deities are practicing interfaith as in doing everything in common, Christians only worship one GOD:meaning they have just "one doctrine and teaching" unlike other people who aren't stable in their ideologies regarding GOD!

Gruni1234:


My dear Tatime, you were an ex Muslim right? You believed in one God right? Muslims are not polytheist right? Now imagine in the quran there are two Allahs, that will go against the beliefs of Islam. Now I looked up the Corithians 8: 4-5 you mentioned and it's clear that the writer said unto them meaning you Christians there's but one God. So Christians are not Polytheist. You see i looked up this Moses Pharoah issue and the right translation is "Like God", going through the Torah and independent of the bible, it is clear that God said he will make Moses Like God to Pharoah not God. You can be like someone and yet not be that person. You can look it up yourself.

Christians having one God in that context my dear Tatime is not to mean one religion and one doctrine. It simply means One God. Others believe there many gods, that's their belief but unto you the Christians there's but one God and not many, to say there are many then like the Greeks you are polytheist. Greeks do not believe in One God, they believe in many gods so if John 1:1 is to be translated "a god" then it means you Christians are also polytheist my dear. But if its left as " the word was divine" then it is God because if not that then Polytheism would be taught in that instance.

Gruni1234:


Yes my dear. It is, the appropriate should have been God or divine. No one had the right to assume it was a smaller god. I have done enough search into that when OneJ asked me to, and from all angles including Atheist greek scholars, the word was divine, that should be left alone as it is or as God. You become a polytheist which your very religion is against. Polytheism is the believe in many gods. So if you say the word is a god, you them say there are two gods.

TATIME:

CAPTIVATOR:


apply what you said.
That means it wrong at Act 8:26 too , right ?

" Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god " KJ .

Gruni1234:


My dear Tatime, you were an ex Muslim right? You believed in one God right? Muslims are not polytheist right? Now imagine in the quran there are two Allahs, that will go against the beliefs of Islam. Now I looked up the Corithians 8: 4-5 you mentioned and it's clear that the writer said unto them meaning you Christians there's but one God. So Christians are not Polytheist. You see i looked up this Moses Pharoah issue and the right translation is "Like God", going through the Torah and independent of the bible, it is clear that God said he will make Moses Like God to Pharoah not God. You can be like someone and yet not be that person. You can look it up yourself.

Christians having one God in that context my dear Tatime is not to mean one religion and one doctrine. It simply means One God. Others believe there many gods, that's their belief but unto you the Christians there's but one God and not many, to say there are many then like the Greeks you are polytheist. Greeks do not believe in One God, they believe in many gods so if John 1:1 is to be translated "a god" then it means you Christians are also polytheist my dear. But if its left as " the word was divine" then it is God because if not that then Polytheism would be taught in that regard.

CAPTIVATOR:


is " a god " a wrong translation ?

CAPTIVATOR:



Barrister was right that you are not fit to do any analysis here, when Tatime ask you to read 1 Corinthians 8:5,6 did you ? U dont or your bias mind is so at work that you didnt see where it reveal the identity of that one God.

English Standard Version
yet for us there is one God, the Father , from whom are all things


Who is the one God ?

Gruni1234:


First of my dear Friend, if I'm a Trinitarian or Unitarian doesnt really matter to me if I become a Christian. What matters to me is I follow the precept of the bible and the bible alone. If the bible tells me My God is a truine God so be it. If it doesnt so be it. I dont need anyone,group or organization to tell me how to know God.I have a brain to think and I've gone to school enough to understand English, what,how and when the bible means.

Your fellows are doing a poor job defending their beliefs , they say one and then change it to mean another. I am a witness to this, I can read and write and know logic. So what you say doesn't really matter to me. I see the way zodiakzax deals with you in verbal assault which I'm against but it seems it could just be The right means to explore given how you just attacked me.

Now get this right as your other colleague got it wrong.I want you to know most atheist do not believe the bible is fabricated, we only don't believe there's a God. Christians turn to Scholars, Atheist scholars who are very educated in the Greek language for council, they help in the Greek text and language as to what it means or not. These scholars mostly accept John 1:1 as the word being divine, and as divine means God. Your assertion that it's "a god" clearly misrepresent the verse. Many Atheist greek scholars accept it to be God not "a god" does that make them a believer that God exists? Get your facts right Young Sir.

Gruni1234:


Yes my dear. It is, the appropriate should have been God or divine. No one had the right to assume it was a smaller god. I have done enough search into that when OneJ asked me to, and from all angles including Atheist greek scholars, the word was divine, that should be left alone as it is or as God. You become a polytheist which your very religion is against. Polytheism is the believe in many gods. So if you say the word is a god, you them say there are two gods.

CAPTIVATOR:



Barrister was right that you are not fit to do any analysis here, when Tatime ask you to read 1 Corinthians 8:5,6 did you ? U dont or your bias mind is so at work that you didnt see where it reveal the identity of that one God.

English Standard Version
yet for us there is one God, the Father , from whom are all things


Who is the one God ?

OneJ:


Gruni1234 is not being honest.
Many scholars agree that in John 1:1 "the word is a god" is accurate because it is the same Greek grammatical construct with Acts 28:6, 12:22,. Other scholars hold a different opinion. That's actually what "John 1:1 Wikipedia" said , but U came to NL to twist the facts.
Intellectual dishonesty.

Let's see if the evidence supported your claims.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/ english/divine

Divine, definition
1. "Connected with a god, or like a god".

https://biblehub.com/greek/2304.htm

theios - divine
divinity, deity
( Latinnumendivinum)
not only used by the Greeks to denote the divine nature, power, providence, in the general, with out reference to any individual deity"

In other words that verse actually means that Jesus Christ has godlike qualities, attributes of a god.
John 1:1, " the word is a god, (NWT) is accurate.

Hairyrapunzel:


This one wants us to think his NWT bible is the true translation. Bible written by people who predicted that the world was going to end in 1975. People with false prophecies.

People that believe that Jesus Christ came invisibly in 1914 and chose their publishing company as the one true religion.

People who because their leaders wanted to be of the anointed remnant on earth introduced overlapping generation in 1995 so that they (the leaders) will be eligible to go to heaven when they die.

People that believe that world will soon end and their jehovah will slaughter all non jws because they didn't pay allegiance to a publishing company.


People whose doctrines are assumptions and speculation based and seen only in watchtower magazines.


You really think we are daft and stupid to believe your assumed translation of saying the word is a god?


Think again.

OneJ:


Your sickness done upload.
IBERIBEISM enters "play" mode.
Stupidity steeped in delusion, bigotry & anti JW virus=.
Mumu for life.

OneJ:


Your sickness done upload.
IBERIBEISM enters "play" mode.
Stupidity steeped in delusion, bigotry & anti JW virus=.
Mumu for life.