...

People like the OP are just out there quoting and bastardizing the scriptures without understanding the language of the scriptures.

So if you can save yourself by "deeds of the law" why do you needed Christ come and be our SAVIOUR. Christ must have died in vain....

Yeye dey smell

Let all believers consider James 2 v 14 & 17 (KJV);

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone

If you are grafted into the vine, without fruits to show for it, you would be pruned off and thrown into the fire eventually...Jesus made it clear in the parable of the vine...

Jesus clearly mentioned while He was alive, that He would judge all men by their works.

And while he revealed Himself to John in the book of revelation, He also made it clear that every man would be judged/rewarded according to their works. So take heed and do not be deceived.

Note: The works I am talking of here is not that of the Law, but the fruits that manifests by having the Holy Spirit, and following His lead to take decisions.

OkCornel:
Let all believers consider James 2 v 14 & 17 (KJV);

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone

If you are grafted into the vine, without fruits to show for it, you would be pruned off and thrown into the fire eventually...Jesus made it clear in the parable of the vine...

Jesus clearly mentioned while He was alive, that He would judge all men by their works.

And while he revealed Himself to John in the book of revelation, He also made it clear that every man would be judged/rewarded according to their works. So take heed and do not be deceived.

Note: The works I am talking of here is not that of the Law, but the fruits that manifests by having the Holy Spirit, and following His lead to take decisions.

no one can be justified by works before God.

solite3:
no one can be justified by works before God.

So why did Jesus say all men will be judged according to their works?




Are you also telling us James was wrong to write this?

James 2 v 14;
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

OkCornel:


So why did Jesus say all men will be judged according to their works?




Are you also telling us James was wrong to write this?

James 2 v 14;
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

James was not wrong. James was not saying we need to add our works to save us before God.
What he meant was that works are a reflection of faith by it we save ourselves before men proving that we are saved.

When faith does not have its accompanied works it is most definitely to be a dead one or a counterfeit.

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Before God nobody shall be justified by works.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

solite3:
James was not wrong. James was not saying we need to add our works to save us before God.
What he meant was that works are a reflection of faith by it we save ourselves before men proving that we are saved.

When faith does not have its accompanied works it is most definitely to be a dead one or a counterfeit.

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Before God nobody shall be justified by works.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Very good to see how you addressed the matter of James... after all, Faith without works is like claiming to have the Holy Spirit without the fruits to show for it.


Now you said no one will be justified by works before God...Yet on more than one occasion, Jesus said He will judge every man according to their works!

This is a huge contradiction!

There is definitely a place for works.

OkCornel:


Very good to see how you addressed the matter of James... after all, Faith without works is like claiming to have the Holy Spirit without the fruits to show for it.


Now you said no one will be justified by works before God...Yet on more than one occasion, Jesus said He will judge every man according to their works!

This is a huge contradiction!

There is definitely a place for works.

yes everyone will be judged for his works.
The Judgment for believers is different for that of unbelievers.
A believer can lose his reward when his works are not good but he will still be saved.
But the works of unbelievers and sinners will only be used to emphasize their condemnation.

solite3:
yes everyone will be judged for his works.
The Judgment for believers is different for that of unbelievers.
A believer can lose his reward when his works are not good but he will still be saved.
But the works of unbelievers and sinners will only be used to emphasize their condemnation.

So tell us, what did Jesus mean by telling us unfruitful branches in the vines would be cut off and cast into the fire?


Or why the man who was unproductive with his talent would be casted into everlasting darkness?

Or why James asked if Faith without works could save at all?


Does this not contradict your theory of being saved by faith but losing rewards for defective works?

solite3:
yes everyone will be judged for his works.
The Judgment for believers is different for that of unbelievers.
A believer can lose his reward when his works are not good but he will still be saved.
But the works of unbelievers and sinners will only be used to emphasize their condemnation.

Another thing please, where did you get the theory that only sinners and unbelievers would be judged on the day of the great white throne judgement?

OkCornel:


So tell us, what did Jesus mean by telling us unfruitful branches in the vines would be cut off and cast into the fire?

unfruitful branch is not saved person. Unfruitful branches are people who heard the gospel but didnt abide in christ.

Or why the man who was unproductive with his talent would be casted into everlasting darkness?

The application of this parable must be understood within the context of the message of Matthew 24-25. It is first a message to the people of Israel that will live in the last days before the Lord returns. The statement, in Matthew 24:13, "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved," is a key statement. This is the believing remnant that will receive the promise of the kingdom. In Matthew 24:32-34, the Lord states, "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." These will be alive when He returns and will have understood and believed their Lord. The application to the people of Israel is graphic and relevant. Those that believe Him will be rewarded in His kingdom. The basis of the reward will be their stewardship of His resources entrusted to them. Those who fear and do not believe will be rejected and judged.

There is also a universal application to all mankind. From the time of the creation of mankind, each individual has been entrusted with resources of time and material wealth. Everything we have comes from God and belongs to Him. We are responsible for using those resources so that they increase in value. As Christians, we have additionally the most valuable resource of all – the Word of God. If we believe and understand Him, and apply His Word as good stewards, we are a blessing to others and the value of what we do multiplies. We are accountable to the Lord for the use of His resources.

Or why James asked if Faith without works could save at all?

taking words out if context.

Does this not contradict your theory of being saved by faith but losing rewards for defective works?

It is not a theory, It is the gospel. Almost the whole book of Roman's was written to prove to you that salvation is by faith alone. Your unbelief does not invalidate it.

Romans 4:5-6 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


A beliver that has a bad work will lose his works but he himself will be saved.

1 Corinthians 3:13-15 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

You see mr okCornel that you are wrong.

solite3:
unfruitful branch is not saved person. Unfruitful branches are people who heard the gospel but didnt abide in christ.






The application of this parable must be understood within the context of the message of Matthew 24-25. It is first a message to the people of Israel that will live in the last days before the Lord returns. The statement, in Matthew 24:13, "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved," is a key statement. This is the believing remnant that will receive the promise of the kingdom. In Matthew 24:32-34, the Lord states, "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." These will be alive when He returns and will have understood and believed their Lord. The application to the people of Israel is graphic and relevant. Those that believe Him will be rewarded in His kingdom. The basis of the reward will be their stewardship of His resources entrusted to them. Those who fear and do not believe will be rejected and judged.

There is also a universal application to all mankind. From the time of the creation of mankind, each individual has been entrusted with resources of time and material wealth. Everything we have comes from God and belongs to Him. We are responsible for using those resources so that they increase in value. As Christians, we have additionally the most valuable resource of all – the Word of God. If we believe and understand Him, and apply His Word as good stewards, we are a blessing to others and the value of what we do multiplies. We are accountable to the Lord for the use of His resources.




taking words out if context.


It is not a theory, It is the gospel. Almost the whole book of Roman's was written to prove to you that salvation is by faith alone. Your unbelief does not invalidate it.

Romans 4:5-6 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


A beliver that has a bad work will lose his works but he himself will be saved.

1 Corinthians 3:13-15 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

You see mr okCornel that you are wrong.

I am not the one who is wrong here..

Perhaps James is very wrong to ask if Faith without works can save as per James 2 v 14 and 18...


Jesus must also be wrong to judge every man according to their works...rather than their faith in Him alone...


No matter how you want to twist it, Faith and works go hand in hand.

OkCornel:

I am not the one who is wrong here..

Perhaps James is very wrong to ask is Faith without works can save as per James 2 v 14 and 18...


Jesus must also be wrong to judge every man according to their works...rather than their faith in Him alone...


No matter how you want to twist it, Faith and works go hand in hand.

So hand in hand that if one has faith one will be fruitful, and if one lacks faith one will be fruitless.

Fruits are the product of work.

OkCornel:

I am not the one who is wrong here..

Perhaps James is very wrong to ask is Faith without works can save as per James 2 v 14 and 18...


Jesus must also be wrong to judge every man according to their works...rather than their faith in Him alone...


No matter how you want to twist it, Faith and works go hand in hand.

you are twisting my words. You are the one contradicting the bible.

Works are products of faith. A faith the lacks its works is not true faith.

solite3:
you are twisting my words. You are the one contradicting the bible.

Works are products of faith. A faith the lacks its works is not true faith.

Guy, relax and read my first post on this thread.

Works alone cannot save. After all, Jesus said there would be many who will do wonders in His name, but He would still call them workers of iniquity, as He does not know them.


Likewise, Faith alone cannot save, I have mentioned this over and again from the book of James.

But Faith and works go hand in hand, you cannot separate one from the other.

It's like claiming to have the Holy Spirit without the fruits to show for it.

budaatum:

So hand in hand that if one has faith one will be fruitful, and if one lacks faith one will be fruitless.

Fruits are the product of work.

Exactly. One cannot abide in Christ and obey His words/instructions and still be fruitless...

The problem is, there are many hearers of the word...but precious few doers of the word (of Jesus)

OkCornel:


Exactly. One cannot abide in Christ and obey His words/instructions and still be fruitless...

The problem is, there are many hearers of the word...but precious few doers of the word (of Jesus)

They believe but do not understand.

budaatum:

They believe but do not understand.

Another valid point.

Lack of insight and understanding...

OkCornel:


Guy, relax and read my first post on this thread.

Works alone cannot save. After all, Jesus said there would be many who will do wonders in His name, but He would still call them workers of iniquity, as He does not know them.


Likewise, Faith alone cannot save, I have mentioned this over and again from the book of James.

But Faith and works go hand in hand, you cannot separate one from the other.

It's like claiming to have the Holy Spirit without the fruits to show for it.

Faith alone can save a man.
I showed you that a man can be justified by faith alone without works but you dogded it.

The question of faith alone or faith plus works is made difficult by some hard-to-reconcile Bible passages. Compare Romans 3:28, 5:1 and Galatians 3:24 with James 2:24. Some see a difference between Paul (salvation is by faith alone) and James (salvation is by faith plus works). Paul dogmatically says that justification is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9), while James appears to be saying that justification is by faith plus works. This apparent problem is answered by examining what exactly James is talking about. James is refuting the belief that a person can have faith without producing any good works (James 2:17-18). James is emphasizing the point that genuine faith in Christ will produce a changed life and good works (James 2:20-26). James is not saying that justification is by faith plus works, but rather that a person who is truly justified by faith will have good works in his/her life. If a person claims to be a believer, but has no good works in his/her life, then he/she likely does not have genuine faith in Christ (James 2:14, 17, 20, 26).

Paul says the same thing in his writings. The good fruit believers should have in their lives is listed in Galatians 5:22-23. Immediately after telling us that we are saved by faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8-9), Paul informs us that we were created to do good works (Ephesians 2:10). Paul expects just as much of a changed life as James does: “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come” (2 Corinthians 5:17). James and Paul do not disagree in their teaching regarding salvation. They approach the same subject from different perspectives. Paul simply emphasized that justification is by faith alone while James put emphasis on the fact that genuine faith in Christ produces good works.

solite3:
Faith alone can save a man.
I showed you that a man can be justified by faith alone without works but you dogded it.

So that means James was totally wrong to ask if Faith alone can save?

Another thing is, where did you get the theory that unfruitful branches in the vine represents unbelievers?

And where did you get your theory of genuine or fake faith from? It's either you have faith or you lack it..


If Faith alone is sufficient, then why did Jesus mention on more than one occasion that every man would be judged according to their works?

solite3:
Faith alone can save a man.
I showed you that a man can be justified by faith alone without works but you dogded it.

In your subsequent post below you yourself say "that a person who is truly justified by faith will have good works in his/her life", so you appear to be acknowledging the importance of both work and faith, though "justify" and "saved" is a bit of a problem here.

Christianity states that one is saved by ones acceptance of Christ in one's life. Would you say this "acceptance" is not a conscious effort of work? How does one accept Christ in one's life if not by slogging through the over a thousand pages of Scripture? Do you not that that slogging is work?

Now imagine one believes every single word in Scripture. If one does not do the work to understand what it is that one believes would you say one has accepted Christ in ones life? If I do not bear fruit according to my beliefs would you agree that I am saved? Where is the Christ in me if I do not produce abundant fruits? Can I produce abundant fruit by doing no work?

What justification can a person who lacks understanding of Scripture possibly have? Can I not, through my ignorance, through my lack of understanding not justify my own stupid acts? Do we not have many of us justifying stupid doctrines gained through our laziness and lack of work to understand?

And that's all the beginning. I may justify all sorts of whatever I wish to justify, but surely if my justification does not produce any fruit all my justification is in vain.

By the way, it takes quite a lot of work to love ones enemy, as Christ told one to do. Those who have not worked are like salt than does not have saltiness.

OkCornel:


So that means James was totally wrong to ask if Faith alone can save?

this is your answer.

Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Another thing is, where did you get the theory that unfruitful branches in the vine represents unbelievers?

one of the result of following men's doctrine is seeing God's word as theory.

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

John is telling you that whoever abides in christ does not commit sin but whoever commits sin does not know christ the one who does not abide in christ does not know him.

And where did you get your theory of genuine or fake faith from? It's either you have faith or you lack it..

fake faith is not the faith of Jesus Christ i.e not a saving faith.

If Faith alone is sufficient, then why did Jesus mention on more than one occasion that every man would be judged according to their works?

There is no 'if' faith in christ finished work alone is what saves other things added to it is garbage.

Been judged for works for a believer has nothing to do with condemnation.

the same Jesus says that he that believes on him has pass from death to life.

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

budaatum:

In your subsequent post below you yourself say "that a person who is truly justified by faith will have good works in his/her life", so you appear to be acknowledging the importance of both work and faith, though "justify" and "saved" is a bit of a problem here.

Yes a man who is justified by faith in christ will have good works. The importance of works is that it identifies the fact we are saved but mind you not to save us.
You plant a tree and then you get the fruit. What gave you the product is the tree not the fruit been produced.

Christianity states that one is saved by ones acceptance of Christ in one's life. Would you say this "acceptance" is not a conscious effort of work? How does one accept Christ in one's life if not by slogging through the over a thousand pages of Scripture? Do you not that that slogging is work?

you dont get saved by slogging through the thousand books of the bible but by the simple gospel. I was saved just by simple gospel and when I opened my bible God was soeaking to me. I dont go about boasting of visions.
There was a time in my life I search through the bible all to no avail untill Jesus found me.

John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Now imagine one believes every single word in Scripture. If one does not do the work to understand what it is that one believes would you say one has accepted Christ in ones life? If I do not bear fruit according to my beliefs would you agree that I am saved? Where is the Christ in me if I do not produce abundant fruits? Can I produce abundant fruit by doing no work?

get saved first then other things will follow. The error is not about doing the works but the purpose. One can do the works and still be rejected by Jesus. The fruit a saved man produce is as a result of his salvation.

What justification can a person who lacks understanding of Scripture possibly have? Can I not, through my ignorance, through my lack of understanding not justify my own stupid acts? Do we not have many of us justifying stupid doctrines gained through our laziness and lack of work to understand?

unfortunately in God's ways, you cant justify yourselves by your good works. Just like a criminal who expect the judge to to cancel his crimes because of the good he has done. Does it work like that buda?

And that's all the beginning. I may justify all sorts of whatever I wish to justify, but surely if my justification does not produce any fruit all my justification is in vain

at the end it is you trying to justify yourself, it is still work, not the gospel.

By the way, it takes quite a lot of work to love ones enemy, as Christ told one to do. Those who have not worked are like salt than does not have saltiness.

it is all efforts at futility trying to justify yourself. God's maths is 100% or 0%. Its either you are completely perfect like God himself or you are completely dead and decay sinner.
At the end none of these cancels the fact that one is a sinner in need of God's intervention.

solite3:

this is your answer.

Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.





one of the result of following men's doctrine is seeing God's word as theory.

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

John is telling you that whoever abides in christ does not commit sin but whoever commits sin does not know christ the one who does not abide in christ does not know him.



fake faith is not the faith of Jesus Christ i.e not a saving faith.



There is no 'if' faith in christ finished work alone is what saves other things added to it is garbage.

Been judged for works for a believer has nothing to do with condemnation.

the same Jesus says that he that believes on him has pass from death to life.

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Meaning Jesus was wrong to say EVERY MAN would be judged according to their works?... rather than their faith?


The Romans 3v 28 you keep quoting talks about the DEEDS OF THE LAW. Like I mentioned in my first post on this thread, that is not the works I am talking about.


Works in the book of James is not referring to the deeds of the law. Get that right first.

Read my first post on this thread again and understand what I referred to as works in that context.


For example, can you claim to have the Holy Spirit without the fruits (love, joy, self control, long suffering e.t.c) to show for it? That is an example of Faith without works! Faith and works go hand in hand.

solite3:

this is your answer.

Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.





one of the result of following men's doctrine is seeing God's word as theory.

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

John is telling you that whoever abides in christ does not commit sin but whoever commits sin does not know christ the one who does not abide in christ does not know him.



fake faith is not the faith of Jesus Christ i.e not a saving faith.

1) Bring the passage on the Parable of the vine and show us where the unproductive branches represents unbelievers. The unproductive branches represents those who hear and believe the truth of Jesus' teachings without doing them. Hence, no works to show for their faith.

2) Again I ask, please back up your theory of genuine and fake faith with the scriptures. It is either you have faith or you don't have faith. Simple and straightforward.

This is about the third time that I have said in response to you that any sort of justification or righteousness by faith or by works is evidence of unrighteousness. Jesus explained this in [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+18%3A9-14&version=NIV]The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector[/url], but through lack of effort and work to understand, this just goes over manys heads!

Reading a Gospel or anything is work. Listening, even, is work. Understanding is a lot more work. And a person who does not do any of these will be without Christ. Acceptance of Christ himself is work and only selective reading of Scripture would make one reduce to nought the work required to worship God which is even much more work.

Take a simple look at the [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+5%3A22-23&version=NIV]Fruits of the Spirit[/url] which is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control, that by which we tell one has God. They all involve one doing work. Or would you say one can have or produce any of those fruits by doing no work?

The difference between them and the [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+5%3A19-21&version=NIV]works of the flesh[/url] which are sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like, is in the type or quality of the work. One being Godly work and the other being work for satan.

I repeat, it is not to do with being righteous or in justifying oneself, but those who do not pick up their [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+16%3A24-26&version=ESV]Cross of Christ[/url] which is work, are as a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal, unsalty salt that does not do the work it is supposed to do and is therefore good for nothing.

Do note that going by the little I know of you, if you yourself had done no work you would not understand as much as you do and your faith would amount to nothing. Please testify if this is not true. But note one more time that it is not for your justification or to claim you are righteous, but one is not justified or righteous without producing fruits which can only be done by a lot of effort and work.

solite3:
Yes a man who is justified by faith in christ will have good works. The importance of works is that it identifies the fact we are saved but mind you not to save us.
You plant a tree and then you get the fruit. What gave you the product is the tree not the fruit been produced.

you dont get saved by slogging through the thousand books of the bible but by the simple gospel. I was saved just by simple gospel and when I opened my bible God was soeaking to me. I dont go about boasting of visions.
There was a time in my life I search through the bible all to no avail untill Jesus found me.

John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.




get saved first then other things will follow. The error is not about doing the works but the purpose. One can do the works and still be rejected by Jesus. The fruit a saved man produce is as a result of his salvation.

unfortunately in God's ways, you cant justify yourselves by your good works. Just like a criminal who expect the judge to to cancel his crimes because of the good he has done. Does it work like that buda?

at the end it is you trying to justify yourself, it is still work, not the gospel.

it is all efforts at futility trying to justify yourself. God's maths is 100% or 0%. Its either you are completely perfect like God himself or you are completely dead and decay sinner.
At the end none of these cancels the fact that one is a sinner in need of God's intervention.

OkCornel:


1) Bring the passage on the Parable of the vine and show us where the unproductive branches represents unbelievers. The unproductive branches represents those who hear and believe the truth of Jesus' teachings without doing them. Hence, no works to show for their faith.

I showed you first John didnt I? Why did you ignore it ? @ bolded this you trying to force your wrong interpretation to buttress your point. Nowhere does it state that they are belivers. Do show it if there are any?

2) Again I ask, please back up your theory of genuine and fake faith with the scriptures. It is either you have faith or you don't have faith. Simple and straightforward.

it seems you are holding on to my calling a dead faith fake faith.
James 2:18
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

OkCornel:


Meaning Jesus was wrong to say EVERY MAN would be judged according to their works?... rather than their faith?


The Romans 3v 28 you keep quoting talks about the DEEDS OF THE LAW. Like I mentioned in my first post on this thread, that is not the works I am talking about.


Works in the book of James is not referring to the deeds of the law. Get that right first.

Read my first post on this thread again and understand what I referred to as works in that context.


For example, can you claim to have the Holy Spirit without the fruits (love, joy, self control, long suffering e.t.c) to show for it? That is an example of Faith without works! Faith and works go hand in hand.

read my previous post slowly again.

budaatum:
This is about the third time that I have said in response to you that any sort of justification or righteousness by faith or by works is evidence of unrighteousness. Jesus explained this in [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+18%3A9-14&version=NIV]The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector[/url], but through lack of effort and work to understand, this just goes over manys heads!

yes you put in effort to understand some teachings in the bible. But when it comes to salvation no effort. Just faith alone.

Reading a Gospel or anything is work. Listening, even, is work. Understanding is a lot more work. And a person who does not do any of these will be without Christ. Acceptance of Christ himself is work and only selective reading of Scripture would make one reduce to nought the work required to worship God which is even much more work.

Take a simple look at the [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+5%3A22-23&version=NIV]Fruits of the Spirit[/url] which is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control, that by which we tell one has God. They all involve one doing work. Or would you say one can have or produce any of those fruits by doing no work?

The difference between them and the [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+5%3A19-21&version=NIV]works of the flesh[/url] which are sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like, is in the type or quality of the work. One being Godly work and the other being work for satan.

I repeat, it is not to do with being righteous or in justifying oneself, but those who do not pick up their [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+16%3A24-26&version=ESV]Cross of Christ[/url] which is work, are as a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal, unsalty salt that does not do the work it is supposed to do and is therefore good for nothing.

Do note that going by the little I know of you, if you yourself had done no work you would not understand as much as you do and your faith would amount to nothing. Please testify if this is not true. But note one more time that it is not for your justification or to claim you are righteous, but one is not justified or righteous without producing fruits which can only be done by a lot of effort and work.

soory this your write up is pointless to my previous post. Read it again Albert slowly this tine.

solite3:
yes you put in effort to understand some teachings in the bible. But when it comes to salvation no effort. Just faith alone.

Faith, my dear friend, requires work. It takes a lot of work to have faith especially if you have no evidence for said faith.

solite3:
soory this your write up is pointless to my previous post. Read it again Albert slowly this tine.

You can't expect to get a point if you do not put in any effort is precisely the point we've been making all along. You will not understand by your faith alone!

Work harder and you just might see the point.

solite3:
I showed you first John didnt I? Why did you ignore it ? @ bolded this you trying to force your wrong interpretation to buttress your point. Nowhere does it state that they are belivers. Do show it if there are any?


it seems you are holding on to my calling a dead faith fake faith.
James 2:18
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Ogbeni, stop jumping to first John . Read the parable of the vine and show us where the barren branches represents unbelievers.

It represents those who hear and believe the teachings of Jesus without doing them.

This thing is too straightforward to twist.


Oh yeah, and according to you, dead faith means fake faith right? It is either you have faith or you don't have it.


Now read what I said concerning works on my first post on this thread before you go about confusing it for DEEDS OF THE LAW again...