Saucyxo:


Free of the shackles of religion loool. Who freed you. Imagine you calling me a slave. Anyways my "slavery" is not one that is oppressive. I wasn't forced or born into my "slavery". I wasn't sold into my "slavery" and it's not bred out of desperation.
I, myself, a person of sentient mind chose to serve a master who been serving me loool. If you dont have a Master babe that's on you loool.

How is Islam an Arab religion? Stop reading dancing quotes on reddit and Twitter and actually educate yourself. Ah it's not everyday.

Come on. I find it quite annoying when people read things online, don't think about it and because it sounds logical, they repeat it everywhere.

So you mean to tell me that Islam is a solely Arab religion simply because it happened to originate in Arab. Like ... I dont understand, where should it originate that would make it a non-xxxx religion? Pluto? Obviously the Quran is in Arabic, they spoke ...Arabic? If that's the case, my Nigerian friend, I hope you solely use Nigerian products in native Nigerian languages with native Nigerian ingredients made by native Nigerians. Obviously anything outside Nigeria isn't made for you.

Lol okay ? My religion has taught me more than morals and what it has brought to me is more than how to be healthy and avoid a criminal record.

Lol. I'm a slave but you can't be? Athiestism originated from the west. From white people. :O. Look at you loool slave . I actually wasnt talking about your stance in theism when I called you a slave. I meant you saying you wouldn't mind your woman being topless. You detty liar. All Nigerian men would mind their woman being topless.

It's insane to me that people dont believe in a higher power. Theres no logic to it at all. In the slightest. Most athiests are more critical of religion as if the opposite of not believing in God is to be religious. If you just have a simple logical conversation with them, when they cant run to gimmicks or twitter quotes. They actually are very theist. Even if its aliens or the FSM or a simulation they believe in.

Atheism is universal. You cannot claim that it is a white or western thing. Can you state who the first atheist was? No? Atheism is a state of mind. It is like saying that science is a white thing. Anyone can apply the scientific method without going outside his or her culture.

Islam on the other hand is Arabic. The hijab/niqab/burkah you wear is Arabic. The Quran says that you should cover up. It does not specify the style. You can cover up with Gucci headgear if you want.

You are not still clear on the facing Mecca Qibla. Why would Allah tell you to face Arab lands? Why not face the heavens?

Why did Allah ignore Africa?

Furthermore, do you know how Islam came to Nigeria? Through slavery. The slave trading conquests of Arabs.




Lastly, you are still young. Please find work in Europe. I give you two years and you would see how your Islamic morals are not better than secular values. For instance just see how your fellow muslims are trying to defend PEDOPHILIA. I hope you know that there are muslims who agree that once a girl has reached puberty, she is ripe for marriage? Empiree could have married you at 12 years.

lanrexlan:
Wa alaykum salaam warahmatulah wabarokatuh dear mentor . Thanks for your inputs akhee. How's Hajia? May Allah uphold us upon goodness.

You are welcome bro, and hajia is doing great ma sha Allah, Allahuma ameen. Jazakumullah khayran.

lanrexlan:

I fully understand your post akhee, paedophilia is between an adult man/woman and a girl/boy that is 13 years or younger. Sex between boys and girls of the same age group can't be regarded as paedophilia and that's what I am trying to say. Islam NEVER encourages that

My definition wasn't really directed at you per se, but I do agree with you.

lanrexlan:

I guess there is a mix-up somewhere. Intimacy between A MAN and A CHILD is indeed paedophilia. While intimacy between two teens or prepubescent isn't paedophilia rather it can be regarded as underage sex. I guess you mixed up the two.

My post isn't taking about the ideal situation for whom supposed to get married. I quite agree with you in its entirety that a male and female going into marriage must be of a responsible age and a level of maturity. That's the ideal situation. But in our society which is not ideal and prepubescent kids are having sex like "tomorrow no dey". What's the solution?


There are two things:
1) The best is to tame these kids and be mindful of what they are exposed to it. Keep them in good environment that would tame their desires and will make them learn and have less relation with the opposite sex. That's why it is good to have separate schools for boys and girls and interactions between them should be for what's necessary and required. Teach them about the ethics of Islam as regards to no shaking hands with opposite sex, no seclusion with the opposite sex, etc. This is the best.


2) The extreme situation: One notices that his kid is already seeing females and the person seems not to have control over the kid again (one can't control kids in what they do in private). He fears that the kid will fornicate and give birth out of wedlock. The kid might be young getting married but is getting married to a kid of his/her age not better than fornication and having a bastard as a child?

We have to choose the lesser of two evils and to me, it is better to marry such a kid (what I meant by a kid is 14years and above) to the person he/she is already seeing than letting the fornication to continue. This is not paedophilia cos they are in the same age range. Some might call it underage marriage and that's why I was explicit with what I meant by "getting them married". I quite explain that.

Lemme relate a short story. There was this sister (I can't quite recall her age, maybe 16 or 17 years), she told her father that she wanna marry. The father said NO that she is still young for marriage. The sister woke up in the middle of the night and went to her parents and said "Father, if you don't get me married by so and so date, I will commit fornication". This scared the father and next week after she said that, they got her married to the guy she wanted and the parents supported them till they both finished school. (This scenario might not be perfect but it's a glimpse to the fact that "getting them married" is better than fornication)

That's what I am driving at.

Of course I agree with you, teenager shouldn't be involved in any kind of romantic relationship, but it is definitely better if they can get married rather than doing boyfriend and girlfriend which is actually being encouraged in our society...

lanrexlan:

Gbammest, this is the definition. Adults who are attracted to younger girls. Note that word "Adults"


SubhanAllah! I was watching a Ted talk the other day where a lady was supporting paedophiles and she requested that they should be treated with love and care as it is a disorder. This is evil these folks are inviting us too, from homosexuals to paedophiles. Sooner or later, they will another scientific research for rapists, those who commit bestiality and the likes.

But the defence of these folks is that these things are natural cos animals do it too! What heck of stupidity is that?!

I am of the opinion that some of these issues are purely a case of mental illness, looking at it from this angle, I can agree to rather expend energy in seeking cure/solution rather than seeking for excuses to accept their queer behaviours...Recently, an artist said he is having conflicts with his gender, they are called non-binary, they do not want to be classified either as a male or female, and some people think it is ok?! I jus tire mehn!

lanrexlan:

That's true.


Even these guys know that they don't make sense with their assertions most times but as Rilwayne001 said, it is just to massage their atheistic egos and feel like they are intelligent. Whereas, they are just intellectual squatters.

True words bro, true words!

Cheers01:




What manner of nonsense are you writing?

I wasn't expecting anything less than this from you.

Cheers01:

1) First of all, when we are talking about paedophilia, we are talking about older adults and underage children. We are not talking about 14 year olds marrying 14 year olds (which is still foolish). Senator Yerima married a 14 year old girl

Are you serious bro? All those videos Empiree has been posting were talking about paedophilia? You are high bro, really high on water. What manner of goalpost shifting is this? The basis of the argument is "14 years old kids having sex and having babies". Don't change gear Egbon. I am against paedophilia. That's Yerima's problem anyways.

Cheers01:

2) Sex education works in the case of teen vs teen sex. Most teens that go through sex education tend to abstain from sex and those that do have sex use contraceptives. Compare the USA to the UK. UK has a standard sex education curriculum and hence
The continuous falling of teen pregnancy. It is an all time low in the UK. The USa has a higher rate.

You are a Nigerian, and yorubas would say "Ibi pelebe ni eniyan ti n mu ole je" which means "Discuss issues from what's near". Sex education isn't working anything in Naija and you know it. When I was in JSS3, I belonged to a group sentisizing secondary school students about premarital sex then. These guys told us pointblank then that "We know we(JSS 3 pupils) can't do without sex, so we can't abstain from it, we should rather use and preach the use of condoms". That was the last time I stepped foot in that meeting.


I would love to have statistics of how sex education has worked in UK.

Cheers01:

3) Marrying two 14 year olds is foolishness. These are children who have not worked. The haven't even gone to university. They are not mature and even Islam says that people getting married should be mature. What makes you even think that forcing two teens to marry will work? They can just easily divorce when they are 18.

As expected, it is your way. Twisting words to suit yourself. Your problem anyways. Can't you use the context where I used "get them married"? Twist as you like, it is your headache. I never talked about forcing them, if they can be enjoying what's meant for married people (according to Islam), they should at least do it in the legal way by sealing the sex with "marriage". This is choosing between two evils (fornication and marrying the two kids). I took time to explain what I meant by "marriage", you can choose to twist and bend words to suit you, wahala ti e niyen.

Rubbish, even grown up men and women get divorced after two weeks of marriage! They have had years of courtship o. Please, don't play that silly divorce card, it is rubbish.

Cheers01:

4) all your listed points are false. Marriage does not stop multiple partners or STDs or cheating. After all, Islam allows 4 wives. Men cheat on their wives. Even Muslim men.

False?! According to high sheikh, AbdulSleek! Islam allows four wives, aren't they legally married to the man? But marriage stops baby mama marriage stops pregnancy without whom to lay claim to.

Faithfulness in marriage is very important and it boils down to sincerity of partners. Most of these people who are unfaithful to their partners (and cheat) are products of this rubbish "boyfriend and girlfriend thingy". After receiving numerous "Opa Mose" before marriage from their bfs or guys who sampled different girls' kittycat, comparison will start when their spouse can't live up to expectations.

The person begins to compare his/her spouse to that ex whom had had sex with her/him. If the spouse can't live up to expectations, they result to cheat with their ex or people who can satisfy them as they once experienced.
Had it been most people remain chaste before marriage, they will be satisfied with what their hubby has to offer sexually and comparison won't come in. I agree that those who will still cheat will cheat but it will surely be reduced to the barest minimum.

Cheers01:

5) please, address the paedophilia. Why should a 50 year old man marry a 14 year old girl? Many muslims defended Yerima for marrying a 14 year old. Please address this issue. Many young girls are suffering from VVF as their pregnancies destroy their bladders.

That's the problem of those who supported Yerima. Don't drag me into paedophilia debate, I have stated and restated my stance on the issue. No Muslim on this thread has supported 50 years old man marrying a "14 years old girl"! But know that 14 years old varies from one location to another and what Islam hammers on is maturity and consent. That's vital. Maturity entails a lot of things.

lanrexlan:
I wasn't expecting anything less than this from you.



Are you serious bro? All those videos Empiree has been posting were talking about paedophilia? You are high bro, really high on water. What manner of goalpost shifting is this? The basis of the argument is "14 years old kids having sex and having babies". Don't change gear Egbon. I am against paedophilia. That's Yerima's problem anyways.


You are a Nigerian, and yorubas would say "Ibi pelebe ni eniyan ti n mu ole je" which means "Discuss issues from what's near". Sex education isn't working anything in Naija and you know it. When I was in JSS3, I belonged to a group sentisizing secondary school students about premarital sex then. These guys told us pointblank then that "We know we(JSS 3 pupils) can't do without sex, so we can't abstain from it, we should rather use and preach the use of condoms". That was the last time I stepped foot in that meeting.

even Judge Lake from paternity court told these young girls to "ring it" before opening their legs for any guy. That's what Americans called "put ring on it". Don't believe their (guys) words.

sino:

You are welcome bro, and hajia is doing great ma sha Allah, Allahuma ameen. Jazakumullah khayran.



I am of the opinion that some of these issues are purely a case of mental illness, looking at it from this angle, I can agree to rather expend energy in seeking cure/solution rather than seeking for excuses to accept their queer behaviours...Recently, an artist said he is having conflicts with his gender, they are called non-binary, they do not want to be classified either as a male or female, and some people think it is ok?! I jus tire mehn!


True words bro, true words!

Aameen wa antum fajazakumullah khairan akhee.

I quite agree with you, if these issues are mental illness, then they deserve to be cured. What I am against is telling us that these things are natural and we should deal with it. Some will justify their claims with "If it is not natural, why do animals engage in it? " What kind of silly justification is this?! I was reading an article of recent where scientists said that "There is nothing like gay genes".

Non-binary?! This is rubbish these people want us to follow and agree to all in the name of "freedom". Everyone will always try to justify their practice cos we are in "a free world". Allah has said in His glorious book Surah Al-Anaam, 6:116
وَإِن تُطِعْ أَكْثَرَ مَن فِي الْأَرْضِ يُضِلُّوكَ عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ إِن يَتَّبِعُونَ إِلَّا الظَّنَّ وَإِنْ هُمْ إِلَّا يَخْرُصُونَ

And if you obey most of those on earth, they will mislead you far away from Allah's Path. They follow nothing but conjectures, and they do nothing but lie.


May Allah plant our feet firmly on His path

This is what I tried to post before I was banned. Hope I'm not getting banned again. Seu.n's spambot is rascist


Below

Empiree:
even Judge Lake from paternity court told these young girls to "ring it" before opening their legs for any guy. That's what Americans called "put ring on it". Don't believe their (guys) words.

Don't mind that pseudo-logic man. They won't "ring it" cos they also wanna have wild fun and have multiple sexual partners. You know that some sees marriage as a bondage to a single partner, that's what they are avoiding. Moreover, with "ring it", they can't leave the relationship without facing the consequences (Divorce is huge over there). They leave bf/gf relationship anytime anyday without any fear. So, they don't wanna ring it

lanrexlan:
Aameen wa antum fajazakumullah khairan akhee.

I quite agree with you, if these issues are mental illness, then they deserve to be cured. What I am against is telling us that these things are natural and we should deal with it. Some will justify their claims with "If it is not natural, why do animals engage in it? " What kind of silly justification is this?! I was reading an article of recent where scientists said that "There is nothing like gay genes".

Non-binary?! This is rubbish these people want us to follow and agree to all in the name of "freedom". Everyone will always try to justify their practice cos we are in "a free world". Allah has said in His glorious book Surah Al-Anaam, 6:116
وَإِن تُطِعْ أَكْثَرَ مَن فِي الْأَرْضِ يُضِلُّوكَ عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ إِن يَتَّبِعُونَ إِلَّا الظَّنَّ وَإِنْ هُمْ إِلَّا يَخْرُصُونَ

And if you obey most of those on earth, they will mislead you far away from Allah's Path. They follow nothing but conjectures, and they do nothing but lie.


May Allah plant our feet firmly on His path

@bold, this verse comes to mind;

"We have certainly created man in the best of stature;

Then We return him to the lowest of the low,

Except for those who believe and do righteous deeds, for they will have a reward uninterrupted" (Qur'an 95: 4-6)

People come up with a lot of silly things just because of fame, money etc. All because of this dunya!

Allahuma ameen to your dua'a.

Okay, let's not argue too much. The original issue was Muslim men marrying underage girls.

There are clerics who state that in Islam, once a girl has reached puberty, she is ready for marriage. Girls reach puberty as early as 11 years old.

Yerima married a 14 year old. Many southerners, including myself have seen how teenage girls are married to.older men in the North.


Can you guys categorically state that it is immoral for a grown man (not even 18 but 50 years old) to marry girls of 11 to 15 years of age?


Sino, Empiree Lanrexlan, Rilwayne001. Please, answer this question. It is very simple.

Just to show you that this child marriage (older men marrying girls below 15) is a problem in Islam...
.

Please, check the screenshot of YouTube showing many cases of child marriage. In one case an imam was arrested for conducting the marriage between an 11 year old girl and a 41 year old man.

Empiree, please stop giving this^^ guy audience. The little audience he's getting is the major reason why he's coming back and forth with is shallow-minded stupidity. You see how he just refined the same argument again even after the many in-depth explanation as up here. Rather than for him to acknowledge the replies he's gotten so far, he's refining the same questions he's been answered and asking it again so he can further get the attention he's craving for. Smh!

Rilwayne001:
Empiree, please stop giving this^^ guy audience. The little audience he's getting is the major reason why he's coming back and forth with is shallow-minded stupidity. You see how he just refined the same argument again even after the many in-depth explanation as up here. Rather than for him to acknowledge the replies he's gotten so far, he's refining the same questions he's been answered as asking it again so he can further get the attention he's craving for. Smh!

Shut up.

You are a liar. A disgrace to muslims. I never changed the topic or the question.


The issue has always been older Muslim men sleeping with and or marrying underage girls

In fact, five pages ago from a few weeks back, here was my comment slamming Empiree on the very same issue which all of you avoid-

Cheers01:



Says the Muslim who has never one day addressed the issue of VVF as a result of Muslim men in the north sleeping with girls as young as 10 years old.

Rilwayne001,

Be advised, I will keep flogging this issue until I get a straight answer from the Muslim brothers here.


I am a first hand witness to the sanctioned perversion in the north where old men marry JSS2 to SS3 girls of 11 to 15 years old.

Some of those girls getting VVF because their bodies cannot handle pregnancies. I have seen it with my own eyes. So all your dodging cannot help you.



There are Muslim clerics who state that it is allowed to marry girls as long as they have reached puberty. Girls can reach buperty as early as 11 years

I want a simple confirmation that this is a wrong teaching and under no circumstance should a grown man marry an under age girl of 15 and below.

Empiree:
even Judge Lake from paternity court told these young girls to "ring it" before opening their legs for any guy. That's what Americans called "put ring on it". Don't believe their (guys) words.

Stop watching trash on TV.

That being said, I would like to see evidence where the judge told two under 18 teens to get married.


I repeat , only couch potatoes and dullards watch such reality TV.

Cheers01:
Okay, let's not argue too much. The original issue was Muslim men marrying underage girls.

There are clerics who state that in Islam, once a girl has reached puberty, she is ready for marriage. Girls reach puberty as early as 11 years old.

Yerima married a 14 year old. Many southerners, including myself have seen how teenage girls are married to.older men in the North.


Can you guys categorically state that it is immoral for a grown man (not even 18 but 50 years old) to marry girls of 11 to 15 years of age?


Sino, Empiree Lanrexlan, Rilwayne001. Please, answer this question. It is very simple.

First a girl reaching puberty means that she isn't prepubescent, hence, it cannot be classified as pedophilia

Secondly, my guy Lanre had hinted to you as I also had done that what is stipulated is that maturity of the candidates getting married, which entails more than just having a period or having wet dreams. I had stated being responsible for own actions as well as the cultural and traditional qualifications which are not disputed in Islam. Of course, there are more criteria for getting married, especially for the man.

Thirdly, to put it simply, for culture and traditions do differ, hence, what is sacrosanct in Islam is that the female and male getting married must be 'matured' amongst other things!

Please note, in Islam, health issues such as VVF can be considered if well proven that giving birth at such age predisposes the mother to such ailment, although there is the option of C.S., and proper nutrition and prenatal clinics to prevent this....

sino:

First a girl reaching puberty means that she isn't prepubescent, hence, it cannot be classified as pedophilia

Secondly, my guy Lanre had hinted to you as I also had done that what is stipulated is that maturity of the candidates getting married, which entails more than just having a period or having wet dreams. I had stated being responsible for own actions as well as the cultural and traditional qualifications which are not disputed in Islam. Of course, there are more criteria for getting married, especially for the man.

Thirdly, to put it simply, for culture and traditions do differ, hence, what is sacrosanct in Islam is that the female and male getting married must be 'matured' amongst other things!

Please note, in Islam, health issues such as VVF can be considered if well proven that giving birth at such age predisposes the mother to such ailment, although there is the option of C.S., and proper nutrition and prenatal clinics to prevent this....

Even when the national law is clear that the age for marriage 18, you are still speaking from both sides of your mouth in order not to condemn the marriage of underage girls.


Unlike you, I can categorically state that under no circumstances should a 50 year old man marry a girl under 18 years old.

But you on the other hand have no respect for a national law that is quite universal both in Europe and America. Marriage is a contract and so, only those over 18 as adults can engage in it.



I am satisfied with your response. It has shown that I was right all along. You guys see nothing wrong with a 50 year old man marrying a 14 year old. Yerima lovers.

Cheers01:



Even when the national law is clear that the age for marriage 18, you are still speaking from both sides of your mouth in order not to condemn the marriage of underage girls.


Unlike you, I can categorically state that under no circumstances should a 50 year old man marry a girl under 18 years old.

But you on the other hand have no respect for a national law that is quite universal both in Europe and America. Marriage is a contract and so, only those over 18 as adults can engage in it.

You are funny, did you not know that stating that culture and traditions differ, covers a national law?! When Nigeria Prohibited homosexuals, where did you think the laws emanated from?! I do not need to go into what marriageable ages are in different countries, my statement makes it simple and covers what is obtainable anywhere in the world!

Islam doesn't go against the national law, as do I, but it would be naive of me to start making blanket statements for a specific age when Islam never did!

sino:


You are funny, did you not know that stating that culture and traditions differ, covers a national law?! When Nigeria Prohibited homosexuals, where did you think the laws emanated from?! I do not need to go into what marriageable ages are in different countries, my statement makes it simple and covers what is obtainable anywhere in the world!

Islam doesn't go against the national law, as do I, but it would be naive of me to start making blanket statements for a specific age when Islam never did!

Is this an admission that secular law is better than Islamic law?

You know that Islamic law does not prescribe an age for consent which then leads to all manner of abuse- marrying 11 year old girls.


Note that as you cannot make a blanket statement condemning marriages under 18 universally, you are also admitting that you have no argument against men who fight for their right to marry 14 year olds in countries like Saudi Arabia.


Funny enough, Saudi is contemplating to set an age of consent to be 18 Years old in 2019. What a shame. They are considering changing their Islamic stance for hundreds of years due to international and western pressure.


In short, Secular law 1 Sharia law 0

Cheers01:


Is this an admission that secular law is better than Islamic law?

You know that Islamic law does not prescribe an age for consent which then leads to all manner of abuse- marrying 11 year old girls.


Note that as you cannot make a blanket statement condemning marriages under 18 universally, you are also admitting that you have no argument against men who fight for their right to marry 14 year olds in countries like Saudi Arabia.


Funny enough, Saudi is contemplating to set an age of consent to be 18 Years old in 2019. What a shame. They are considering changing their Islamic stance for hundreds of years due to international and western pressure.


In short, Secular law 1 Sharia law 0

In your worldview, you can only see a win-loose situation, never a win-win!

Islam acknowledges the dynamism of the human society, so makes laws which accommodates the ever dynamic society while not compromising on its fundamentals!

While I acknowledge the changes in our society, I also acknowledge the fact there are differences, and would rather advocate for changes if need be, that are not against the moral dictates of Islam!

So it really doesn't matter the age, for perhaps in a decade or more, things might change, and we would need to review the marriageable age again!

sino:


In your worldview, you can only see a win-loose situation, never a win-win!

Islam acknowledges the dynamism of the human society, so makes laws which accommodates the ever dynamic society while not compromising on its fundamentals!

While I acknowledge the changes in our society, I also acknowledge the fact there are differences, and would rather advocate for changes if need be, that are not against the moral dictates of Islam!

So it really doesn't matter the age, for perhaps in a decade or more, things might change, and we would need to review the marriageable age again!

It is you who sees a win-lose situation, I only adapted to your stance.

In fact, you are contradicting yourself. You are now asking for pluralism- various laws complementing each other. But I thought you believed that sharia is Gods law? The sharia is perfect?

Your Muslim brethren will not be happy with you. How can you put secular law and sharia law on equal footing.


Checkmate bro.

Cheers01:


It is you who sees a win-lose situation, I only adapted to your stance.

In fact, you are contradicting yourself. You are now asking for pluralism- various laws complementing each other. But I thought you believed that sharia is Gods law? The sharia is perfect?

Your Muslim brethren will not be happy with you. How can you put secular law and sharia law on equal footing.


Checkmate bro.

Yeah right, I have mentioned earlier that Islam did not come to abolish peoples culture and traditions, rather the filth in them! In an Islamic society, the good and acceptable culture and traditions of the people are well integrated, and the Shariah is the supreme law of the land! Any law that is to be made in an Islamic country must pass through the rigorous scrutiny under the instruments of the shari'ah! If there is no prohibition in the shari'ah, then there is no problem in adopting it as a law.

sino:

Yeah right, I have mentioned earlier that Islam did not come to abolish peoples culture and traditions, rather the filth in them! In an Islamic society, the good and acceptable culture and traditions of the people are well integrated, and the Shariah is the supreme law of the land! Any law that is to be made in an Islamic country must pass through the rigorous scrutiny under the instruments of the shari'ah! If there is no prohibition in the shari'ah, then there is no problem in adopting it as a law.

Abolish filth abi?

Is atheism filth? I would like to know because all sharia compliant countries seem to ban atheism.

Cheers01:



Even when the national law is clear that the age for marriage 18, you are still speaking from both sides of your mouth in order not to condemn the marriage of underage girls.


Unlike you, I can categorically state that under no circumstances should a 50 year old man marry a girl under 18 years old.

But you on the other hand have no respect for a national law that is quite universal both in Europe and America. Marriage is a contract and so, only those over 18 as adults can engage in it.



I am satisfied with your response. It has shown that I was right all along. You guys see nothing wrong with a 50 year old man marrying a 14 year old. Yerima lovers.

Call those who marry underage girls in America Yerima too. Share the title across boards. Why weren't these guys prosecuted too?!

NB: I don't support paedophilia, just exposing your double standards.

lanrexlan:
Call those who marry underage girls in America Yerima too. Share the title across boards. Why weren't these guys prosecuted too?!

NB: I don't support paedophilia, just exposing your double standards.

Okay. And your point?

They do it too they do it too they do it too. Your point? It doesn't matter If Obama does it too. You should condemn it.

Saucyxo:


Okay. And your point?

They do it too they do it too they do it too. Your point? It doesn't matter If Obama does it too. You should condemn it.

Can't you see where I said I don't support paedophilia and no Muslim on this thread does?! Are you trying to cherry-pick my words or what?! I was simply exposing the double standards of the guy who keep centering his attacks on Muslims doing it while ignoring the facts that there are many of such cases in the western world where he claimed that 18years is the age for marriage.


For the last time, I don't support paedophilia and I condemn it. Happy?

lanrexlan:
How did you see me? I was just passing by.

Firstly, it is unfair twisting Empiree's words, he NEVER supported paedophiles and you know that, just trying to make issues where there is none. But I am not really surprised anyways, it is Logicboy


My stance:
In an ideal society, a 14 years old girl should be in school learning. But unfortunately, we live a highly sexualized (hyper-sexualized) society where everywhere you turn to is about sex and sex. Sex is being promoted every single corner of the world, from billboards to even selling a soap of N100.


Teenagers of today have high sexual drive and they are more inclined towards sex. So, what's the solution? Unfortunately, you haven't procured any solution on how to curb underage sex among teenagers. All those sex education doesn't work. What some are teaching is playing safe and if turns sour to pregnancy, some will encourage abortion. Islam doesn't support "playing safe" for unwedded people cos that's fornication, abortion too is haram. This is a parting line between us, you don't regard those things as fornication or sin.



If a 14 years old girl is already "lambaing" and "lamoshuaging", it is better to "get her married" to the 14/15 years old boy whom they are committing the act together (Paedophilia is marriage of underage girls to older men). When I say "get her married", I don't mean living together as husband and wife. Indeed, they may be young for the traumas and emotionally aspect of marriage and fending for themselves. But by "being married ", they would at least they will have a means to fulfill their urges naturally and lawfully.


This means that both parents will meet and know themselves (as in-laws and fulfil the necessary things for marriage), these teens are permitted to see one another when due and if pregnancy sets in, the girl won't become a baby mama as she is married to the boy. The parents would support them financially and emotionally till they can stand on their feet.

The benefits are:

1) No multiple sex partners.
2) No denying of the pregnancy.
3) No stigmatization for getting pregnant. (especially in this part of the world, Nigeria)
4) No fear of STDs.


Is that not better than sleeping around and getting pregnant, having children from fornication? Ooh, you are an atheist and you have no standards for morals (sorry if I sound offensive). Your brain is your yardstick for morals and values, that's why you can't see anything wrong with fornication and having children outside wedlock.


But imagine a 14 years old girl already having 15 bfs before clocking 20 and they all have sampled her honeypot, what's the dignity in that? (Same with boys) What is the dignity in sleeping around with different girls/boys? Ooh, sorry you are an atheist and everyone is free to do anything they like with their bodies since they aren't hurting others! Zero morals!!!


Bottomline is, as a Muslim parent, if one can get their kids tamed and curbed them from this menace of fornication, that's the best. But if one can't, it is better to "get my kid married" than fornicating under my roof! QED

Tell Empiree to explicitly say that he condemns old Muslim men that marry women under 18.

Soo when said 14 year old girl and boy gets tired... they divorce and move on to the next ? How many 14 year olds that are having sex, stay in a relationship talkless of marriage? That's absolutely so ridiculous, you're acting like these 14 year olds reason and think like 30 year olds. They are kids. If a 14 year old boy gets any girl pregnant, in marriage or not, it will lead to a very unhappy life. Youre here saying child marriage reduces the risk to stds... FALSE. 1. If kids are already fornicating, the chances of them forgoing religion to cheat is very likely. 2. Child marriages increase the chance of most diseases. Including HIV. 3. Child marriages increase the chances of a adolescent girl DYING!!!!!!!!

If the parents are supporting them financially and emotionally, how is that a marriage in Islam. You've just created a life changing covenant just for two kids to have sex. A 14 year old is still growing and changing. Honestly, your whole stance doesn't even add up to me. Nothing will change other than them being married and now being able to have sex. What's the difference between this and 14 year olds who are in "committed " relationships. No 14 year old stays with who they're having sex with at 14.

Whooo are you to dictate anyones morals? Your morals are yours and only yours to uphold. Who are you to say anything about anyones morals? You're as much a sinner in the eyes of God as anyone. Theres no compulsion in the way of life religion brings us. Let's keep humility as muslims.

Looooool. A 14 year old that is having sex will not stay with that person. Like Do you talk to 14 year olds at all ? Honestly, I'm sure you know guys who were fornication at 19. Ask them if they would marry the person they were with? So you want your daughter/son to be divorcing every two months loool so they can now have sex with someone else.

Like I asked Empiree, what would you do if your son tells you hes sleeping with Fatima and you say he needs to marry her and he says no? He tells you, hes not ready to get married. Do you not know 14 year olds Marriage is for matured minds. It takes a lot of self discipline and preservance. Youre acting as if marriage stops anyone from sleeping around... especially an immature child! Why would you want to put your daughter/son through that, because they couldn't control hormonal sexual urges? If your spouse sleeps angry with you, the angels curse you until the morning. Like a 14 year old.

sino:

Assalam alaykum brother mine, well said, although I believe we must first have clear definitions of terms before having any discussions/arguments with these folks who are majorly keen on finding faults and insullting the deen...

1. Pedophilia
Pedophilia is an ongoing sexual attraction to pre-pubertal children. It is considered a paraphilia, a condition in which a person's sexual arousal and gratification depend on fantasizing about and engaging in sexual behavior that is atypical and extreme. Pedophilia is defined as recurrent and intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children—generally age 13 years or younger—over a period of at least six months. Pedophiles are more often men and can be attracted to either or both sexes. How well they relate to adults of the same or opposite sex varies.
Source

Please take note of the bold, it is therefore necessary to mention that Islam never encourages this, but rather Islam mandates anyone getting married to be 'mature'...Islam as the technical definition of what this 'maturity' entails, fundamentally, being responsible for your actions sums it all. Also, as one of the lessons learnt about the history of Islam as well as the spread, culture and tradition of the society plays a unique role in the society so that we can say, Islam never came to abolish or destroy culture and traditions of a people, rather it came to remove the filth and negatives and accepts, or upholds the good and positives in such culture and traditions...

What a society might consider as mature and a marriagable age would definitely differ, but fundamentally, Islam teaches that such a male or female going into marraiage must be of a responsible age and not prepubescent as the definition of pedophilia above suggests.

2. "In May 2015, research from the National Crime Agency suggested 250,000 men in the UK could be considered "true paedophiles" - adults who are attracted to pre-pubescent girls less than 12 years old.

Talking to The Independent in the wake of the research, one psychologist working said they should be treated as victims rather than offenders.

“It is a disease, it is a trait, it is not a choice. They haven’t chosen to change, but they can learn how to live responsibly with their sexual desires," Petya Schuhmann, who works with a scheme in Germany called Project Dunkelfeld, which allows individuals to anonymously contact therapists who help them control their sexual urges towards children.

Last year, a self-confessed paedophile, Todd Nickerson, a freelance graphic designer from Tennessee, caused uproar after writing an article asking people to be understanding of his "sexual orientation".

Called I'm a paedophile, you're the monsters, the piece explained how he believed his molestation as a child was the reason he is now sexually attracted to young girls. He also mentioned his membership of the "Virtuous Paedophiles" forum - an online community of paedohpiles who have vowed never to act on their sexual urges.

In July 2010, the Harvard Mental Health Letter of July 2010 stated that "paedophilia is a sexual orientation and unlikely to change. Treatment aims to enable someone to resist acting on his sexual urges".

The idea of treating paedophilia as a disease has long been controversial.

In 2013, Donald Finklater, of the child protection charity the Lucy Faithfull Foundation, said: "There may be some vulnerabilities that could be genetic, but normally there are some significant events in a person's life, a sexually abusive event, a bullying environment … I believe it is learned, and can be unlearned."
Source

I digress a bit, if you look at the bold in red, these are some of the argument points of those who support another sexual orientation, homosexuality. But why pedophilia is frowned at and rightly so, is the fact that it involves prepubescents, unlike homos who are consenting adults, aside this facts, there happens to be no other justification not to classify it as a disease or a bad behaviour that can be unlearned!

You have said it all Lanre, they do not have a sense of morality and thus, the level of their 'intellect' pushes them to accept and disagree at a snap of a finger, coupled with the herd mentality of being tagged civilized or 'woke'....

.

The act of child abuse is different from pedophilia. You can be attracted to kids (which many muslim grown men are) making you a pedophile and do nothing about it and also be a molester and a child abuser which is the molestation and abuse of a child (anyone below 18 or the legal age of consent). Similar to how you can have thoughts about stealing but you're not a thief until you actually steal. Thats what Empiree is being accused of supporting, child molestation/abuse.

Islam mandates anyone getting married to be mature? A 14 year old boy that doesn't have a job and is being financially and emotionally supported by his parents when hes meant to be a guardian for a woman is mature?

You wrote a lovely summary on the movement of the addition of P to the LGBTQ+ agenda. Great. There are people who are sexual deviants. If you were actually interested in the topic, rather than using it for a counter argument then, you'd find it irrelevant to the topic at hand. There are women and men who find it sexually arousing to be beaten, raped, defecated on, urinated on, choked. There are men who find it sexually arousing to be locked using a chastity belt. There are men and women who find sexual pleasure in KILLING women. Theres are terms usually end in phillia to indicate unnatural behaviour towards sex. The second you kill someone for sex, you stop being a necrophile and you start being a murderer! The second someone that is sexually attracted to children touches a child ( anyone below 18 or below the legal of consent) they start being a child molester. The united nations law, after extensive research on the ability of the mature mind has named anyone below the age of 18 a child.

Anyone who promotes or advocates for the sexual contact of a child and an adult, is promoting child molestation. If grammatical wording is your issue. Also, in the study of the CHILDREN that are being married by the United nations. Only 1 in 25 men are actually below the age of 18 and 0.3% of them are below 15.
You sit and think about the psychology of a child. One that is easily influencable. Not only that, you act as if a large majority of these little girls and boys are asking to be married. They rarely come to their parents and say they want to marry a 40 year old due to risk of fornication. These children are at high health risk. They are DYING. A 14 year old girl that is in the care of her 40 year old husband. Neither of them understand how to take care of women after childbirth. These little girls DIE. Like have you no soul?

lanrexlan:
Can't you see where I said I don't support paedophilia and no Muslim on this thread does?! Are you trying to cherry-pick my words or what?! I was simply exposing the double standards of the guy who keep centering his attacks on Muslims doing it while ignoring the facts that there are many of such cases in the western world where he claimed that 18years is the age for marriage.


For the last time, I don't support paedophilia and I condemn it. Happy?

Okay no worries lol sorry! .

lanrexlan:
Call those who marry underage girls in America Yerima too. Share the title across boards. Why weren't these guys prosecuted too?!

NB: I don't support paedophilia, just exposing your double standards.

What double standards? Why don't you use your brain?

Didn't I clearly state that under no circumstances should an adult man should marry an under 18?

That some people escape the law because they are not caught does not mean that the law does not exist or that the crime is supported.

If you truly believe that paedophilia is supported in America or UK, go and marry an under 18 then tell the police.

I dont know what nonsense you are trying to argue.

Even in the example you gave, the man that engaged in paedophilia is facing sexual assault charges from the minors he slept with.

lanrexlan:
Can't you see where I said I don't support paedophilia and no Muslim on this thread does?! Are you trying to cherry-pick my words or what?! I was simply exposing the double standards of the guy who keep centering his attacks on Muslims doing it while ignoring the facts that there are many of such cases in the western world where he claimed that 18years is the age for marriage.


For the last time, I don't support paedophilia and I condemn it. Happy?

Sino has already exposed himself. Empiree, too.

The case is simple. In Saudi Arabia that the law does not state the age of consent and so, a 50 year old man can marry a 14 year old. Would you condemn such a marriage? Sino has already confirmed that he wont condemn such a marriage due to "cultural maturity"


Would you condemn a legal marriage between a 50 year old man and 14 year old girl in Saudi Arabia where it is sanctioned by law?

Saucyxo:


Tell Empiree to explicitly say that he condemns old Muslim men that marry women under 18.

Lol, he can do that himself. I don't need to tell him. I am here to state my own stance.

Saucyxo:

Soo when said 14 year old girl and boy gets tired... they divorce and move on to the next ? How many 14 year olds that are having sex, stay in a relationship talkless of marriage? That's absolutely so ridiculous, you're acting like these 14 year olds reason and think like 30 year olds. They are kids. If a 14 year old boy gets any girl pregnant, in marriage or not, it will lead to a very unhappy life. Youre here saying child marriage reduces the risk to stds... FALSE. 1. If kids are already fornicating, the chances of them forgoing religion to cheat is very likely. 2. Child marriages increase the chance of most diseases. Including HIV. 3. Child marriages increase the chances of a adolescent girl DYING!!!!!!!!

If the parents are supporting them financially and emotionally, how is that a marriage in Islam. You've just created a life changing covenant just for two kids to have sex. A 14 year old is still growing and changing. Honestly, your whole stance doesn't even add up to me. Nothing will change other than them being married and now being able to have sex. What's the difference between this and 14 year olds who are in "committed " relationships. No 14 year old stays with who they're having sex with at 14.

Whooo are you to dictate anyones morals? Your morals are yours and only yours to uphold. Who are you to say anything about anyones morals? You're as much a sinner in the eyes of God as anyone. Theres no compulsion in the way of life religion brings us. Let's keep humility as muslims.

Looooool. A 14 year old that is having sex will not stay with that person. Like Do you talk to 14 year olds at all ? Honestly, I'm sure you know guys who were fornication at 19. Ask them if they would marry the person they were with? So you want your daughter/son to be divorcing every two months loool so they can now have sex with someone else.

Like I asked Empiree, what would you do if your son tells you hes sleeping with Fatima and you say he needs to marry her and he says no? He tells you, hes not ready to get married. Do you not know 14 year olds Marriage is for matured minds. It takes a lot of self discipline and preservance. Youre acting as if marriage stops anyone from sleeping around... especially an immature child! Why would you want to put your daughter/son through that, because they couldn't control hormonal sexual urges? If your spouse sleeps angry with you, the angels curse you until the morning. Like a 14 year old.

Once again, you have brilliantly cherry-picked my words to create arguments that aren't there. I don't have time going around circles. I have explained what I meant by "getting them married". I NEVER call "getting them married" as the ideal situation nor the type of marriage that Islam preaches. Rather, I called it "choosing the lesser evil in an extreme situation" (this is Fiqh) and nowhere did I talked about forcing them to get married. I gave you a real life situation up there, it was the even the girl who requested to get married cos of the fear of fornication and nobody forced her.

I quite know and duly understand that these kids aren't matured for marriage and I took my time to explain what I meant by "getting them married". I think it is very unfair if you are cherry-picking my words and you aren't reading it in the context of what I posted. You decided to choose what you wanna understand and digested and counter it. I can't help that miss.

Once again, I will restate my stance.

There are two things:
1) The best is to tame these kids and be mindful of what they are exposed to it. Keep them in good environment that would tame their desires and will make them learn and have less relation with the opposite sex. That's why it is good to have separate schools for boys and girls and interactions between them should be for what's necessary and required. Teach them about the ethics of Islam as regards to no shaking hands with opposite sex, no seclusion with the opposite sex, etc. If they are getting close to the opposite sex or something that will lead to intimacy is already brewing, reorientate them.This is the best.


2) The extreme situation: One notices that his kid is already having sex with females and the person seems not to have control over the kid again (one can't control kids in what they do in private). He fears that the kid will continue to fornicate and give birth out of wedlock. The kid might be young getting married but is getting married to a kid of his/her age not better than fornication and having a bastard as a child?

We have to choose the lesser of two evils and to me, it is better to marry such a kid (what I meant by a kid is 14years and above) to the person he/she is already seeing than letting the fornication to continue. This is not paedophilia cos they are in the same age range. Some might call it underage marriage and that's why I was explicit with what I meant by "getting them married". I quite explain that.