CaveAdullam:
Ok. I have the life of God in me because I have in Jesus Christ my Lord.

2. What are the characteristics of anything which lives?

one time you said you don't know and another time you came to a conclusion that there is no other book that possess the life of God except the 66 books. Is that not self confusion?

Anyway I have the life of God in me, I have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and I touch life in any literature that has the life of God outside the 66 books of the Bible.

Mr Ihedinobi3 it is not the fault of believers who see life in literatures outside the 66 books of bible. It might be that you are not mature enough spiritually to see the breath of God in them.

You can believe whatever you please and me too. Lol.

people come and see o.

I have life because I have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and if I see life in any other literature outside the 66 books I'm no longer a believer or not a believer. With this statements, are you sure you are not wrong or sentimental Mr Ihedinobi3? Do you even understand what you are saying?

You don't see it because of your spiritual level and thank God the life of God is not limited to 66 books.

But if you want to see it clearly you can act like Zacchaeus that climb a tree or press forward like the woman with the issues of blood.



Lord God Almighty let thy Holy Spirit in me continually lead me to see your life anywhere and everywhere through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Ihedinobi3:

I am not going to dispute with you your claim to be a believer. That is between you and the Lord. For mine and other believers' part, we are to avoid people who claim to be believers but engage in blatant sinning (1 Corinthians 5:9-11) and people who are heretics (Titus 3:10-11). So, it makes little difference if you claim to be a believer.

Ihedinobi3:
If you attack the Word of Truth and will not listen to correction, we who believe and hold fast to the Truth will treat you like you're an unbeliever.

Ihedinobi3:
Both things I said were necessary. I said the first because you tried to put words in my mouth and have it seem like I believe that there may be other books that are inspired. Of course, I don't believe or know any such thing. What I do know is that only the 66 books in question are inspired.

Ihedinobi3:
As for your claim to a special maturity, that is why we are warned by Paul through the Holy Spirit in Colossians 2:18-19 to not listen to people like you. The Lord Jesus said clearly in John 10 that those who believe in Him know His Voice and listen to Him. He did not even suggest that you have to be mature in order to be able to recognize His Voice more than others.

Ihedinobi3:
But arrogant people like you who will not submit to the Truth will be looking to pretend that you are something special. That is why you end up as apostates (2 Timothy 3:8-9; 2 Peter 2; Jude 1:10-13).

OkCornel:
Lol...and the churches that believes the word of God is more than 66 books are stylishly called heretics...


Wetin I no go see for here


The fact that God, Jesus, the prophets and the Apostles never limited God's word to a set of books should get people thinking!

CaveAdullam:
How I so much Love this, my salvation is neither between me and you nor any other person except the Lord Jesus Christ whether in heaven or earth, so why should I care about what you think about me....... Lol

So I'm now sinning because I regard the book of Enoch, you are just confusing yourself oga.

Stop quoting scriptures up and down, Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Thank God my salvation is not between me and you or any other believers but Christ Jesus my Lord.

You are not fit to give corrections and there is no correction you are trying to give. Take corrections first Ihedinobi3 before giving corrections.

The 66 books are inspired because they have life in the message of their writings which I totally agree and believe.

I also see life in the book of Enoch or is it my fault that you aren't seeing it?

BTW Ihedinobi3 have you read the first book of Enoch?

The voice of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is different from yours, no need to bother myself about that. And I am not afraid because I have the Holy Spirit in me.

Thank God spiritual maturity is not to believe in the 66 books but to love the Lord God Almighty with all our heart, soul, mind and strength and to love our neighbors also.

only me arrogant, and you have quickly prophesied about me saying I will end up as an apostate. O Lord Jesus, have mercy.

Thank God Ihedinobi3 is not in charge of salvation, I wonder what would have become of me.

Ihedinobi3 you never expected that you will come across something like this that will shake your belief, the reason I became your follower is because you engage facts with facts but what I'm seeing here is empty display of emotions, confusing statements, and confrontations with anyone that will not align with you.

A snail cannot hide too long under its shell. Now I know you better. But anyways we learn on daily basis and I pray you unlearn, relearn and learn perfect truth.

Go back to the drawing board, ask you shall receive, knock and the door shall be opened, seek and you shall find.

I love you.

Thanks.

God bless.

Ihedinobi3:

I certainly agree that what I think of you is of no consequence - unless it is the same as what the Bible says about you, then you should really pay attention. After all, I care little what opinions anyone has of me, unless they are resonant with the Bible.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that you "are sinning because [you] regard the book of Enoch." Of course, if you treat something as God's Word when it is not, then you are committing a sin, but I hadn't even gone so far as to say that yet. In that post, I was only describing the types of people that obedient believers are supposed to avoid, even if they claim to be believers too. You talk like one of those two types, the heretic, that was why I said what I said. I'm not sure what confusion you are seeing here.

You have a problem with hearing or reading the Bible invoked? Well, I'm a pastor-teacher. The Bible is the authority I rely on, so you have no chance of hearing me defend the Lord's Flock without using the Bible to do so. If you don't want to hear appeals to the Bible, you should quit talking to me. And isn't it interesting that it bothers you that I'm "quoting Scriptures up and down" when you are the one claiming a special maturity that enables you to see Scripture everywhere? For one who is so great at seeing Scripture everywhere, shouldn't you be thrilled to have it quoted at you too?

As for studying to show myself approved as a workman who knows his job, you appear to be proof that I have and am. I don't see your rebuttals proving that I don't know what I'm talking about or what the Scriptures say.

If truth could be made whatever we want it to be, then your pronouncements and denunciations would mean something. As it is, that is not possible.

As I said, if you see life in the Book of Enoch, by all means, use it as Scripture. Don't let me stop you from doing so. But don't even pretend that those of us who believe in the Lord Jesus should be like you. You are clearly different from us, so you shouldn't be among us nor demand that we be like you. We are very different from you.

As for what spiritual maturity is, it is also a good thing that the Bible itself tells us what it is. We don't have to be deceived by you about that:

[11]And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,
[12]for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;
[13]until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.
[14]As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;
[15]but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ,
[16]from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.
Ephesians 4:11-16 NASB

[6]Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away;
[7]but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;
[8]the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory;
[9]but just as it is written, "Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard, And which have not entered the heart of man, All that God has prepared for those who love Him."
[10]For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.
[11]For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.
[12]Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
[13]which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
[14]But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
[15]But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.
[16]For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he will instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.
1 Corinthians 2:6-16 NASB

That is, spiritual maturity is a matter of epignosis, that is knowledge about the Bible that is believed in the heart. It is not merely about a woolly, ethereal concept of love that has nothing to do with what the Bible says. If you love the Lord, you will obey Him. His Command? Believe in the Lord Jesus. But how can you believe what you do not know? You have to seek the Truth, study it, and then believe it. You can only do that with the help of a pastor-teacher. If you love your neighbor, you will treat them as the Lord commands. But how can you treat people as the Lord commands if you don't know what the Lord commands? Again, you need a pastor-teacher to teach you what the Lord commands. And you need to believe what he tells you, if you have tested him according to the Bible and proved that he is reliable. Then, and only then, you can and must obey him. That is how the love described in the Bible works. But then, it may be different in your "other Scriptures."

There was no prophecy. I'm not a prophet. I'm a pastor-teacher. I teach the Bible. I was showing you that according to the Bible, people like you end up as apostates. If you listen, maybe you won't end up like the others. If you don't, maybe you will. Either way, it is your choice, not mine. If it were up to me, I would drag you off the path you're on kicking and screaming. But then, it's not, just as you said. It's your choice.

"Shake [my] belief?" That's a good one. Do you know the last time anything at all "shook my belief?" It has been ages. And that thing was guilt over my own sins. You have absolutely no chance in this world to even cause my faith to feel the wind. You are so transparent to me that I could never be worried that you could be right about what you say. My Faith in the Lord Jesus is very fine, thank you very much. But it certainly is interesting that you actually considered my faith in the Lord - a faith that you yourself claimed to share - should be threatened by your own actions here on this thread. In other words, you actually feel comfortable and accomplished in putting the faith of those you claim to be fellow believers with at risk? That only proves everything that I have said here about you and your kind. You are enemies of the Truth.

As for being my follower, it was only yesterday that I found out that you followed me. Obviously, that means almost nothing to me. Many people "follow" people like me in order to oppose them. I never consider a "following" to mean anything but a possibility in either direction. In John 6, nearly all the Lord's Disciples abandoned Him when they couldn't stand the Truth anymore. They didn't want to be associated with a "cannibal." And they certainly thought He was being arrogant in claiming to be the Christ. So, your attribution of emotional arguments to me here is received in the same light. You obviously have never actually listened to what I teach. If you had, you would have expected everything I have said on this thread.

As for knowing me better, that is probably good for you. At least, you can be sure where you stand with respect to what I teach. But make no mistake, I will not be changing the position I hold now, not ever. My journey to the Truth was too long and too tortuous for me to ever want to go back. So, you shouldn't hold your breath waiting for me to become like you. That will never happen. As for you, I have no ability to make anybody's choices for them. You are whoever you choose to be. While I can and do warn you to get off this dangerous path you are on, I cannot make you do so. What I can certainly do is protect other believers who listen to me from you, and, believe me, I will do that, no matter how you feel about it. As you yourself said about me, you didn't die for me. The Lord Jesus did. So, the One to Whom I owe my allegiance and obedience is the Lord Jesus, not you. He gave me my gift of pastor-teaching. He trained me in the Truth through another pastor-teacher. He is preparing me through the tests and work that He has given me to do. He is the One Who will judge me. So it is His Opinion and His Command that I concern myself with. If you threaten the spiritual safety and security of any believer for whom I have responsibility to the Lord, there will be no peace between me and you. You can be sure of that.

Ihedinobi3:

I certainly agree that what I think of you is of no consequence - unless it is the same as what the Bible says about you, then you should really pay attention. After all, I care little what opinions anyone has of me, unless they are resonant with the Bible.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that you "are sinning because [you] regard the book of Enoch." Of course, if you treat something as God's Word when it is not, then you are committing a sin, but I hadn't even gone so far as to say that yet. In that post, I was only describing the types of people that obedient believers are supposed to avoid, even if they claim to be believers too. You talk like one of those two types, the heretic, that was why I said what I said. I'm not sure what confusion you are seeing here.

You have a problem with hearing or reading the Bible invoked? Well, I'm a pastor-teacher. The Bible is the authority I rely on, so you have no chance of hearing me defend the Lord's Flock without using the Bible to do so. If you don't want to hear appeals to the Bible, you should quit talking to me. And isn't it interesting that it bothers you that I'm "quoting Scriptures up and down" when you are the one claiming a special maturity that enables you to see Scripture everywhere? For one who is so great at seeing Scripture everywhere, shouldn't you be thrilled to have it quoted at you too?

As for studying to show myself approved as a workman who knows his job, you appear to be proof that I have and am. I don't see your rebuttals proving that I don't know what I'm talking about or what the Scriptures say.

If truth could be made whatever we want it to be, then your pronouncements and denunciations would mean something. As it is, that is not possible.

As I said, if you see life in the Book of Enoch, by all means, use it as Scripture. Don't let me stop you from doing so. But don't even pretend that those of us who believe in the Lord Jesus should be like you. You are clearly different from us, so you shouldn't be among us nor demand that we be like you. We are very different from you.

As for what spiritual maturity is, it is also a good thing that the Bible itself tells us what it is. We don't have to be deceived by you about that:

[11]And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,
[12]for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;
[13]until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.
[14]As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;
[15]but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ,
[16]from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.
Ephesians 4:11-16 NASB

[6]Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away;
[7]but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;
[8]the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory;
[9]but just as it is written, "Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard, And which have not entered the heart of man, All that God has prepared for those who love Him."
[10]For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.
[11]For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.
[12]Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
[13]which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
[14]But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
[15]But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.
[16]For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he will instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.
1 Corinthians 2:6-16 NASB

That is, spiritual maturity is a matter of epignosis, that is knowledge about the Bible that is believed in the heart. It is not merely about a woolly, ethereal concept of love that has nothing to do with what the Bible says. If you love the Lord, you will obey Him. His Command? Believe in the Lord Jesus. But how can you believe what you do not know? You have to seek the Truth, study it, and then believe it. You can only do that with the help of a pastor-teacher. If you love your neighbor, you will treat them as the Lord commands. But how can you treat people as the Lord commands if you don't know what the Lord commands? Again, you need a pastor-teacher to teach you what the Lord commands. And you need to believe what he tells you, if you have tested him according to the Bible and proved that he is reliable. Then, and only then[/b], you can and must obey him[/b]. That is how the love described in the Bible works. But then, it may be different in your "other Scriptures."

There was no prophecy. I'm not a prophet. I'm a pastor-teacher. I teach the Bible. I was showing you that according to the Bible, people like you end up as apostates. If you listen, maybe you won't end up like the others. If you don't, maybe you will. Either way, it is your choice, not mine. If it were up to me, I would drag you off the path you're on kicking and screaming. But then, it's not, just as you said. It's your choice.

"Shake [my] belief?" That's a good one. Do you know the last time anything at all "shook my belief?" It has been ages. And that thing was guilt over my own sins. You have absolutely no chance in this world to even cause my faith to feel the wind. You are so transparent to me that I could never be worried that you could be right about what you say. My Faith in the Lord Jesus is very fine, thank you very much. But it certainly is interesting that you actually considered my faith in the Lord - a faith that you yourself claimed to share - should be threatened by your own actions here on this thread. In other words, you actually feel comfortable and accomplished in putting the faith of those you claim to be fellow believers with at risk? That only proves everything that I have said here about you and your kind. You are enemies of the Truth.

As for being my follower, it was only yesterday that I found out that you followed me. Obviously, that means almost nothing to me. Many people "follow" people like me in order to oppose them. I never consider a "following" to mean anything but a possibility in either direction. In John 6, nearly all the Lord's Disciples abandoned Him when they couldn't stand the Truth anymore. They didn't want to be associated with a "cannibal." And they certainly thought He was being arrogant in claiming to be the Christ. So, your attribution of emotional arguments to me here is received in the same light. You obviously have never actually listened to what I teach. If you had, you would have expected everything I have said on this thread.

As for knowing me better, that is probably good for you. At least, you can be sure where you stand with respect to what I teach. But make no mistake, I will not be changing the position I hold now, not ever. My journey to the Truth was too long and too tortuous for me to ever want to go back. So, you shouldn't hold your breath waiting for me to become like you. That will never happen. As for you, I have no ability to make anybody's choices for them. You are whoever you choose to be. While I can and do warn you to get off this dangerous path you are on, I cannot make you do so. What I can certainly do is protect other believers who listen to me from you, and, believe me, I will do that, no matter how you feel about it. As you yourself said about me, you didn't die for me. The Lord Jesus did. So, the One to Whom I owe my allegiance and obedience is the Lord Jesus, not you. He gave me my gift of pastor-teaching. He trained me in the Truth through another pastor-teacher. He is preparing me through the tests and work that He has given me to do. He is the One Who will judge me. So it is His Opinion and His Command that I concern myself with. If you threaten the spiritual safety and security of any believer for whom I have responsibility to the Lord, there will be no peace between me and you. You can be sure of that.

jamesid29:


It is thinking such as these that stood as the basis for every christain cult over the ages. When Believers begin to so elevated themselves and their callings over others to the point that they begin to consider themselves final authorities and anyone who goes against their teachings even on matters that are really not that important is not only wrong but can also be deemed heretical and heading towards God's wrath.

That's what concerned me in some of our previous conversation before this thread. Not that I didn't think you were knowledgeable and might make a fine teacher but that you have put yourself on such a level that even if you were right 90% of the time, the 10% in which you are wrong, there won't be be anyone you consider trustworthy enough to listen to and make adjustments accordingly.

I really do hope you meet people who can help you get back to some of the fundamentals of the christain faith before you go into full time ministry.

Praivit0:
I don't dabble into other books that aren't part of the 66books of the Bible, however I must categorically say that when christianity started there was nothing like the 66books. The compilation was made by theologians. There were other epistles in the early church like those of Barnabas and co, do we then call Christians of that era who believed in such epistles heretic.

Ones salvation shouldn't be judged by wether the person believes in the book of Enoch or not but in the belief of the death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ and the acceptance of Jesus as Lord and saviour.

Believing in other books like book of Enoch doesn't make one a heretic. Let's not be stereotypical as Christians.

Let's be guided by the Spirit of Christ and not by assumption and opinions of people who condemn what they haven't read. Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgement.

jamesid29:


It is thinking such as these that stood as the basis for every christain cult over the ages. When Believers begin to so elevated themselves and their callings over others to the point that they begin to consider themselves final authorities and anyone who goes against their teachings even on matters that are really not that important is not only wrong but can also be deemed heretical and heading towards God's wrath.

That's what concerned me in some of our previous conversation before this thread. Not that I didn't think you were knowledgeable and might make a fine teacher but that you have put yourself on such a level that even if you were right 90% of the time, the 10% in which you are wrong, there won't be be anyone you consider trustworthy enough to listen to and make adjustments accordingly.

I really do hope you meet people who can help you get back to some of the fundamentals of the christain faith before you go into full time ministry.

CaveAdullam:
May the peace of God that surpasses all understanding rest in your heart, spirit, soul and body continually.

God bless you abundantly.

Praivit0:
I don't dabble into other books that aren't part of the 66books of the Bible, however I must categorically say that when christianity started there was nothing like the 66books. The compilation was made by theologians. There were other epistles in the early church like those of Barnabas and co, do we then call Christians of that era who believed in such epistles heretic.

Ones salvation shouldn't be judged by wether the person believes in the book of Enoch or not but in the belief of the death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ and the acceptance of Jesus as Lord and saviour.

Believing in other books like book of Enoch doesn't make one a heretic. Let's not be stereotypical as Christians.

Let's be guided by the Spirit of Christ and not by assumption and opinions of people who condemn what they haven't read. Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgement.

CaveAdullam:
May the peace of God that surpasses all understanding rest in your heart, spirit, soul and body continually.

God bless you abundantly.

OkCornel:



The people arguing that sons of God in Genesis and Job were the defendants of Seth surely turned a blind eye to this post.

OkCornel:
For those of you fruitlessly arguing that the sons of God in Genesis & Job are the male descendants of Seth;

Please have a look at Josephus Flavius' Antiquity of the Jews; I don't think Josephus Flavius needs introduction here as famous first century Jewish historian he was.

Flavius Josephus of the Antiquities of the Jews — Book I
Chapter 3 v 1;

1. Now this posterity of Seth continued to esteem God as the Lord of the universe, and to have an entire regard to virtue, for seven generations: but in process of time they were perverted, and forsook the practices of their fore-fathers; and did neither pay those honours to God which were appointed them, nor had they any concern to do justice towards men. But for what degree of zeal they had formerly shewn for virtue, they now shewed by their actions a double degree of wickedness. Whereby they made God to be their enemy. For many Angels of God accompanied with women, and begat sons that proved unjust, and despisers of all that was good; on account of the confidence they had in their own strength. For the tradition is, that these men did what resembled the acts of those whom the Grecians call Giants. But Noah was very uneasy at what they did: and being displeased at their conduct, persuaded them to change their dispositions, and their actions for the better. But seeing they did not yield to him, but were slaves to their wicked pleasures, he was afraid they would kill him, together with his wife and children, and those they had married. So he departed out of that land.


Check out how this reconciles with the verses posted from the book of Enoch earlier;

Enoch Chapter 15 v 1-7;

1 And He answered and said to me, and I heard His voice: 'Do not be afraid, Enoch you righteous man and scribe of righteousness.
2 Approach and hear my voice. Go and say to the Watchers of heaven, for whom you have come to intercede: "You should intercede for men, and not men for you."
3 Why and for what cause have you left the high, holy and eternal heaven, and had sex with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children of the earth, and begotten (as your) sons?
4 Though you were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten children with the blood of flesh, and as the children of men, you have lusted after flesh and blood like those who die and are killed.
5 This is why I have given men wives, that they might impregnate them, and have children by them, that deeds might continue on earth.
6 But you were formerly spiritual, living the eternal life, immortal for all generations of the world.
7 Therefore, I have not appointed wives for you; you are spiritual beings of heaven, and in heaven was your dwelling place.

Cc: missjo, maamin, gobuchinny, budaatum, nijabazaar, RiyadhGoddess, CaveAdullam

OkCornel:



Enoch 10 v 4-6 & 11-12;
4. And again, the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azazel hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness and split open the desert, which is in Dudael and cast him in.
5. And fill the hole by covering him with rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him live there forever, and cover his face that he may not see the light.
6. And on the day of the great judgment, he shall be hurled into the fire.
11. And the Lord said to Michael: 'Go bind Semjaza and his team who have associated with women and have defiled themselves in all their uncleanness.
12. When their sons have slain one another, and they have seen the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them fast for seventy generations under the hills of the earth, until the day of the consummation of their judgment and until the eternal judgment is accomplished.'


Enoch Chapter 1 v 9;

And behold! He comes with ten thousand of His holy ones (saints) in order to execute judgment on all, to destroy all the ungodly (wicked ones), and to convict all flesh of their works of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, and of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.





CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN HOW JUDE WAS WARNING AGAINST THE WRITINGS OF ENOCH IN THIS PASSAGE?

Cc: missjo, maamin, gobuchinny, budaatum, nijabazaar, RiyadhGoddess, CaveAdullam

OkCornel:





PLEASE SOMEONE SHOULD SHOW US HOW PETER WARNED AGAINST BELIEVING THE WRITINGS OF ENOCH IN THIS PASSAGE.

Cc: missjo, maamin, gobuchinny, budaatum, nijabazaar, RiyadhGoddess, CaveAdullam

Maamin:


My brother this people will twist anything in the scripture just to fix in their erroneous teaching. How can Jude be warning against Enoch's writing when in fact he was acknowledging it ? Truth is has been made plain right before them. Pride and ego won't let them accept it.

Praivit0:
I don't dabble into other books that aren't part of the 66books of the Bible, however I must categorically say that when christianity started there was nothing like the 66books. The compilation was made by theologians. There were other epistles in the early church like those of Barnabas and co, do we then call Christians of that era who believed in such epistles heretic.

Ones salvation shouldn't be judged by wether the person believes in the book of Enoch or not but in the belief of the death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ and the acceptance of Jesus as Lord and saviour.

Believing in other books like book of Enoch doesn't make one a heretic. Let's not be stereotypical as Christians.

Let's be guided by the Spirit of Christ and not by assumption and opinions of people who condemn what they haven't read. Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgement.

CaveAdullam:

Thank God spiritual maturity is not to believe in the 66 books but to love the Lord God Almighty with all our heart, soul, mind and strength and to love our neighbors also.

gobuchinny:


Very mature poster . Some people dont know that the early christains didnt have the bible in 66 books like we have it now but they were independent books of their own which were read separately and never collectively. The truth really hurts and for some people it shakes their whole world and beliefs systems hence the rubbish belief that the sons of God were the children of Seth . That part just makes me LOL wheneva I think of it . Just negodu nonsense reasoning even after overwhelming scriptural evidences that proves otherwise. The human mind hates truth and is always comfortable in deceits and lies just like a pig is comfy in the mud that even when you wash and bathe it in truth it still returns to the mud and filth of lies . Me I no go enter mud with anybody. If you like make sons of God be children of Okonkwo or Oduduwa na u sabi or if you say the BOE was written in hell or in ogbomosho, na you sabi. Me I will forever be making reference to the book and will teach my children. Come and beat me

Maamin:
There are many glaring evidences both in the Bible and outside the Bible. Many Apocryphal text and none canonised books made this clear that angels took daughters of men. But these people just don't want to take the word for what it says

Maamin:
I think this is clear enough and has revealed a lot concerning this issue ...let's wait and see how they deny all this �

Maamin:
My brother this people will twist anything in the scripture just to fix in their erroneous teaching. How can Jude be warning against Enoch's writing when in fact he was acknowledging it ? Truth is has been made plain right before them. Pride and ego won't let them accept it.

Maamin:
Same way Jude acknowledge the writings of Enoch, Peter did also. They all agreed on the same teaching. Perfect! Well done bro!

Ihedinobi3:

Hello.

For what it is worth, I don't think that either you or Praivit0 can prove your rather big claims about the believers of the first century. I'm quite confident that you are both wrong.

Of course, the 66 books of the Bible were not bound together in one volume at the time, but that was because the technology did not exist. Books were written on scrolls that had a physical limit to their size. You could only "bind" so many scrolls together into a "book." For that reason, the early believers actually kept copies of all the books of Scripture in their meeting places for public reading when they assembled. Then, if anyone could afford it and had the ability or could afford the services of a reader, they made copies of any given book that they wanted to own and read or have read to them privately.

As I have argued several times on this thread (and elsewhere), every writing of Scripture was clear to believers to be Scripture right from the moment that it was written throughout history, including during the time of Moses. No believer with any spiritual common sense and a heart open to Truth has ever been confused about what is Scripture and what is not. It is immediately obvious. The Bible itself says as much. Paul and Peter were still alive obviously when Peter affirmed that Paul's writings were Scripture. Paul himself commanded the churches that he wrote to to share his letters to them with other churches and to make copies of his letters to other churches for their own selves. He did that because he was full aware that he was writing Scripture to them. In the Old Testament, Moses consciously wrote everything he did on God's direct orders. Jeremiah did too. Even when King Zedekiah burnt the first uncompleted book of Jeremiah, his officials knew that it was Scripture and tried to persuade him not to.

As for the 66 books being available to the Church of the Apostolic Age, the New Testament was completed by the middle of the first century. Not only was it completed, it was also very quickly distributed as it was being written. So, believers throughout the world had access to the full Bible when the Apostles finished writing the New Testament. Nobody lacked for the Truth at any time.

Of course, many other books were traditionally preserved in perhaps many assemblies, books that were clearly known not to be Scripture, but which believers loved to have read to them and which some of them thought had some spiritual value. Among these perhaps would be the histories like the books of the Maccabees. Eventually, things like this became a snare when apostates who thought too highly of themselves assumed licence to teach falsehoods that violated what the Apostles taught.

This is what led to the agitation for a Canon. The whole business of defining a Canon was not because anyone was in doubt of what was Scripture and what was not, it was entirely because false teachers in the church visible began to create confusions in the church visible especially regarding the Deity and Humanity of Jesus Christ.

Even so, the binding of all the books of the Bible into a single physical volume did not occur until new book-making technology that allowed the creation of large volumes came about. As I said, this did not stop Christian churches from collectively owning a full collection of all 66 books. If you could afford it then, you could even privately own a copy of this collection. Judging by the vast array of manuscripts from so long ago too, it seems clear that many copies of the collection existed in varying degrees of completeness too, certainly because of private ownership of copies made according to affordability.

As for the Book of Enoch, as I've said, I don't presume to decide for anyone what to believe and what not to believe. But the Book of Enoch is a late production. It was a copy-cat project designed to draw legitimacy from what Jude wrote. There is absolutely no inspiration in the work. Jude himself made reference to no book at all. He only quoted Enoch himself, something that can be explained by his status as a prophet (that is, one who declares God's oracles). A prophet obtains information through various divine means including visions and dreams. Jude was writing of something that had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit, not of anything he had read from any book.

Nonetheless, you need not receive this as any kind of rejection or challenge to your right to believe anything you want. I completely and wholeheartedly believe in your right to exercise your free will. The rewards and consequences of your choices are between you and the Lord. My part is merely to teach the Truth to anyone who might listen.

gobuchinny:


Honestly I have zero patience for people who talk Ill about this glorious book of Enoch. I dont try and convince them either because it's not necessary to read it as the bible as we have is enough for any beleiver to grow and be fully mature. I also beleive that the bible MUST first be read and understood before delving into the BOE. But for any matured son of God the book is very informative and strengthens faith because it fills in the gaps neatly about the historical occurances of the world and fallen Angel's. Same fallen Angel's the world believes in and have even perverted by Hollywood lies. It's the same fallen Angel's some 'christians' wont beleive because of their harden and uncircumcised heart .

Imagine foolishness of saying sons of God r children of Seth . What a joke. Me I dont argue with folks whose minds are not open to learn but are like a flint that is cast on rock.

Keep it up @okcornel.

MuttleyLaff:






Come and meet me at below link, lets once and for all sort out this "sons of God" brouhaha and the next giving you a good hiding to reset you back to correct default settings about the BoE
https://www.nairaland.com/5375336/nephilim-sons-god/6#83829215

Maamin:
And what epistle will you be bugging me out with that i have not seen?

Maamin:
...naaahh! I will pass

OkCornel:
For those of you fruitlessly arguing that the sons of God in Genesis & Job are the male descendants of Seth;

Please have a look at Josephus Flavius' Antiquity of the Jews; I don't think Josephus Flavius needs introduction here as famous first century Jewish historian he was.

Flavius Josephus of the Antiquities of the Jews — Book I
Chapter 3 v 1;

1. Now this posterity of Seth continued to esteem God as the Lord of the universe, and to have an entire regard to virtue, for seven generations: but in process of time they were perverted, and forsook the practices of their fore-fathers; and did neither pay those honours to God which were appointed them, nor had they any concern to do justice towards men. But for what degree of zeal they had formerly shewn for virtue, they now shewed by their actions a double degree of wickedness. Whereby they made God to be their enemy. For many Angels of God accompanied with women, and begat sons that proved unjust, and despisers of all that was good; on account of the confidence they had in their own strength. For the tradition is, that these men did what resembled the acts of those whom the Grecians call Giants. But Noah was very uneasy at what they did: and being displeased at their conduct, persuaded them to change their dispositions, and their actions for the better. But seeing they did not yield to him, but were slaves to their wicked pleasures, he was afraid they would kill him, together with his wife and children, and those they had married. So he departed out of that land.


Check out how this reconciles with the verses posted from the book of Enoch earlier;

Enoch Chapter 15 v 1-7;

1 And He answered and said to me, and I heard His voice: 'Do not be afraid, Enoch you righteous man and scribe of righteousness.
2 Approach and hear my voice. Go and say to the Watchers of heaven, for whom you have come to intercede: "You should intercede for men, and not men for you."
3 Why and for what cause have you left the high, holy and eternal heaven, and had sex with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children of the earth, and begotten (as your) sons?
4 Though you were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten children with the blood of flesh, and as the children of men, you have lusted after flesh and blood like those who die and are killed.
5 This is why I have given men wives, that they might impregnate them, and have children by them, that deeds might continue on earth.
6 But you were formerly spiritual, living the eternal life, immortal for all generations of the world.
7 Therefore, I have not appointed wives for you; you are spiritual beings of heaven, and in heaven was your dwelling place.

Cc: missjo, maamin, gobuchinny, budaatum, nijabazaar, RiyadhGoddess, CaveAdullam

budaatum:
I think you need to spend some money on a a good History of the Bible. Here's a free one for those who might read it to him.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/biob/biob04.htm

MuttleyLaff:


Give a time, day and date for us have this once and for all duel to death, to forever put put the nail in the coffin of your misguided belief that angels are called sons of God. C'mon Maamin step up to the plate. Dont let your side down, lol