Daejoyoung:

Atheism can also be made a religion. By default it is a naturalistic religion, just like deism.
Atheists like religious people also assume things from a particular point of view, and most times it could be difficult to reason with them. Same goes for theists.

Christians can be close minded yes, but I have heard and seen atheists who do not even want to accept that there could be more to the physical world we perceive with our five senses. Atheists who adamantly tout evolution religiously, but understand nada about it, etc.

Daejoyoung:

Your definition is making my point. You disbelieve in Gods or God or such a concept in the first place. It doesn't say because you disbelieve in certain gods or the gods of religion, but that you disbelieve in the concept.

There is a reason we don't call Agnostics and Deists atheists, even though they like you accept no religious God.

Daejoyoung:

Are deists also atheists? if so, then everyone is an atheist, and then the term atheism becomes meaningless.

IamMichael:

You are just running in circles.

Why do you call Atheists Atheists?

IamMichael:

At least know the meaning of the words you use so that you don't mix up facts and make wrong conclusions.

Kobojunkie:
huh?

Do you mean this?
The meaning contained states that
Atheism IS NOT disbelief in the existence of a particular God or some gods <==> Atheism is disbelief in the existence of God or gods.
Do you see they are equivalent?

IamMichael:

I don't understand...
What is your point?

- Atheism = disbelief in the existence of God or god's.

Kobojunkie:

You can in fact be one and not the other. Check the dictionary meanings of the terms you use at least.

IamMichael:

Lol[b]How then did the Freethinker become a Freethinker if he wasn't open minded?[/b]

free·think·er
/ˌfrēˈTHiNGkər/

a person who rejects accepted opinions, especially those concerning religious belief.

IamMichael:
Most Nigerian Freethinkers came from a Religious background.
Try the reason talk wella.

IamMichael:


It is not the same. Don't get it twisted or confused, that's why you guys misunderstand it.

You are claiming that something is true. Anyone who says something is true means that come what may, that something is true. E.g 1+1 = 2.
Even if you go to America or Europe or Asia or Australia, the answer is still the same.

In the case of your claim that your religion is true, you can't prove it. You have been begged, given money. Everything has been done to make you prove your claim, but you haven't.
You cannot then turn around to peddle what you have not proved to be true as a fact. Facts are verifiable, but so far none of your claims have been proven.

Daejoyoung:

lol, you are not simply a free thinker because you don't believe in God or because you reject religious gods. At best you should not be an atheist, you should be willing to consider all angles, there are lots of things we don't know yet. So this is the reason I don't see the relationship between atheism and free thinking.
Many atheists boldly tell religious folks there is no god. All atheists I know are not open to the supernatural( even if they don't believe in it). How is that free thinking?
Are you open to anything? the fact that you look down on religious people makes me think you are not as open minded as you claim.

BTW, you can be a free thinker and yet decide to be close minded or adamant due to your inherent bias.

Atheism is not simply a worldview on the fence, it makes some assumptions by default. For the fact that it rejects God philosophically

Vic2Ree:
Edit: Just wanted to add, I think the misconception may arise from how you want to define god here. From an etymological viewpoint, you are wrong. But if you want to restrict the discussion to a particular religion like Islam for example, maybe you could probably call Christians atheists with respect to Allah only.

Daejoyoung:

I call atheists atheists, because they don't believe anything at all was the first cause.

Deists believe that something was the first cause, and religious people believe that too. Agnostics don't know, but may be open to it. Atheists as we have come to know them are the very opposite of theists, they reject the question of the first cause. To them there is no first cause, and we are just here.

To understand more about atheism, read about the German philosopher Nietzsche.
Of course we are all atheiststic and agnostic to other things, but specifically the term atheism is a philosophical ( not necessarily religious) question of the concept of God as the source of everything.

Kobojunkie:
That you claim to understand it is no reason to be close-minded though.
In itself it is not a religion. But some of those who claim it are religious in their zeal.

IamMichael:

Like I keep saying, the confusion is from you.

Atheists believe in things. Religious god's is just one of the things they don't believe in.

Kobojunkie:
Even that assumption fails, because it is not that ALL Christians do not believe that Allah does not exist, it is that they do not choose to trust in Allah.

Daejoyoung:

So how does your quote invalidate whatever I said? You are a funny one, albeit interesting, lol.

IamMichael:

Lol. It's funny that you should say I'm funny.

You mentioned deist and i showed you the meaning, but obviously, you didn't get the point!

A logical person would have known if his comparison between a Deist and Atheist was in tandem or are connected.

"Deism is the philosophical position that rejects revelation as a source of religious knowledge and asserts that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to establish the existence of a Supreme Being or creator of the universe."

If a deist decides to use reason and observations to prove the existence of a Supreme being, it's their business. However, whatever reason or observation a deist proposes as his proof will also face the same Logical scrutiny.

It is not a new thing. Many people have tried to use reason to explain God, but everyone knows that God and reason don't travel in the same sentence!

Kobojunkie:
Probably by rejecting opinions and ideas that are widely accepted


Sure, but that doesn't mean they are open-minded individuals though.

Xavfra:
How do they act or claim religious....

re·li·gion
/rəˈlijən/

a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.
e.g "consumerism is the new religion"

Xavfra:
I said I'm free minded not close minded

Vic2Ree:

Thats true as well
Speaking of Allah. I just realized Islam is an abrahamic religion as well just like Christianity descended from Judaism. I know adherents of Christianity and islam who see Yahweh and Allah as one and the same.

Infact, when debating with Theists, I've noticed that some of them believe that all religions worship The same god, just in different ways.

Kobojunkie:
For that we consult other meanings of religion

By that, any concept can be made into a religion by those who subscribe to it.

OK. But just so you know, free-mindedness is not the opposite of close-mindedness. So it is possible to be free-minded and close-minded at the same time.

IamMichael:
Opinions are rejected, Facts are not!
Anyone who rejects facts are not open-minded. That's why every open minded definition will make reference to religious people as not being open minded.

IamMichael:
Being open minded is what destroys the religious delusions and illusions, which are replaced with logic and evidence based reasoning.
That's the difference!

Xavfra:
Okay......
See photo attached below......
I doubt it's possible to be both at the same time .....

Vic2Ree:

Bro, I have to say, after properly assessing your OP, Kobojunkie has a point.

Atheism means the lack of belief in the existence of any deities. Basically, it is absurd to have belief in any deity at all, and still call yourself an atheist. The moment you believe in (even if it's one) god, you cannot be a-theos (without-god)

Edit: Just wanted to add, I think the misconception may arise from how you want to define god here. From an etymological viewpoint, you are wrong. But if you want to restrict the discussion to a particular religion like Islam for example, maybe you could probably call Christians atheists with respect to Allah only.

Kobojunkie:
Use this thread for a case study. Who has been trying so hard to make a point where non-exists all this while?
The one who believes in God or the one who claims to be a freethinker?

Xavfra:
The both parties are pressing their points against each other.....

Xavfra:
See, to be a be free thinker doesn't mean you jump from one rope to another

free·think·er
/ˌfrēˈTHiNGkər/

a person who rejects accepted opinions, especially those concerning religious belief.

Xavfra:
it implies your ability to accept infos.......

Daejoyoung:

Not believing in religious gods is not what makes atheists stand out, what makes them distinct is that they don't believe in the concept of God.

The concept of God, and religious god, are two separate issues that depend on one another, but are not necessarily thesame. You are conflating the two.

Kobojunkie:




Remember, we have a definition from the Dictionary to work with.

IamMichael:

God is generic to begin with.

To you, Yahweh is God. To another, Allah is God. To a traditional worshipper in Igbo land, Chukwu is God. To the Traditional worshipper's in Yoruba, Ogun or Sango or the related deity of worship is God. To the Greeks, Zeus is God.

When you mention God, you are not single God because the term is generic and is associated with Religion.

God doesn't exist in the dictionary of non-religious people. People who dwell in God or God concept are Religious people. Therefore, you can't turn around and say the concept of God is different from Religious god's.

Even if a creator exists, who told you it is a God? Do you take Mark Zuckerberg as a God because he created something that billions of people are addicted to?

Try to see things from a wider perspective bro.

Xavfra:
NB: I'm apatheist..

IamMichael:

@bolded, that's exactly my point.

If you interpret Atheism strictly word for word, your lack of belief in my God places you as an atheist.

If i have a God who you don't believe in, you are an atheist to it because that is strictly the definition of Atheism.

If I believe that my phone is my God but you don't believe, you are an atheist because an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in God or god's. It doesn't matter the form the god in question comes in. If someone believes it to be a God but you lack believe in it, you are an atheist in the definition of the word.
Your own belief of any God/god's has nothing to do with it.

The key word is disbelief.