₦airaland Forum

Razzness:
U see this concept of trinity, is something that sends my brain to shutdown whenever i think about it, i never seem to comprehend it.
I can comprehend everyother doctrine in christainity with ease, but to make myself believe that God is three in one is beyond me.

cornelboy:
If you carefully study the Bible, you would see and understand that the existence of only one true GOD, the Almighty was taught.
Jesus confirmed this in John 17:3, also Paul supported the authentic believe of the one true God, YaHweh who is the Father of all is a single person not "three in one God" or " God in three persons" as Trinitarians says. 1 corinthians 8:6.

cornelboy:
If you carefully study the Bible, you would see and understand that the existence of only one true GOD, the Almighty was taught.
Jesus confirmed this in John 17:3, also Paul supported the authentic believe of the one true God, YaHweh who is the Father of all is a single person not "three in one God" or " God in three persons" as Trinitarians says. 1 corinthians 8:6.

Is YAHWEH, God of Israel one Being with Jesus Christ in NT who came to die for sin?


#1 NUMBER OF GOD
It is obvious that in order, God is the only Being who can be "First and Last/Beginning and Ending/Alpha and Omega" at the same time because he existed before every created thing and is the only One who will remain when he decides to end all existence.
The Simultaneous "First and Last" is a number only the Uncreated can have.

Isa 44:6 Thus saith YAHWEH, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

We see here that YAHWEH, the God of Israel is "First and Last" and is the only true God. Follow me now.

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, Who is, and Who was, and Who is to come, the Almighty

Rev 11:17-18 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, Who is and was and is to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned

We see that He calls himself by this number, "First and Last" and also the "Who is, was and is to come". He further calls himself, the Almighty/Omnipotent (El-Shaddai), an OT title of YAHWEH. Even the angels worship him and call him same on his throne. Angels are mighty, even Michael is very mighty but only YAHWEH is Almighty/Omnipotent.
From the OT text and also the two in the Apocalypse, It is clear that YAHWEH Almighty's number is "First and Last"

Now, observe:
In the beginning of the apocalypse, John meets with Jesus Christ, who introduces himself as
Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last...
Rev 1:17-18 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

We see that this is Jesus Christ who was dead and resurrected. By his number here, "First and Last/Alpha and Omega/Beginning and Ending", we see that YAHWEH Almighty of OT and Jesus Christ of NT are one Being.

Little wonder that even when the Word became flesh, he testified he was on earth as Son and in heaven in the Father at once, a bilocation impossible with any being but God himself.
Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Q.E.D. Let's move to another prerogative of God.

N.B: The gospel is simple. God became a man. And acted as both God and man at the same time. To teach men how to worship God right and to make it possible for and show men how to become sons of God. So quoting scriptures that reveal God's humanity which happened only about 2000 years ago takes nothing away from the Word's original existence as one Being with the Father.

#2 JUDGMENT OF GOD

We know that YAHWEH, the God of OT revealed Himself to Israel as the one who will judge both living and dead.
Now notice in the verse below, it is God who gave the commandments to Moses, YAHWEH, who is to be feared, who will also judge every work.
Ecc 12:13-14 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil

Also observe another verse in the same letter that shows the same YAHWEH is the one who will judge righteous and sinners alike.
Ecc 3:17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.

But who are we told will judge all men?
2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick(righteous) and the dead(wicked) at his appearing and his kingdom;

Clearly answered. Paul says Jesus will judge the living and the dead. Comparing with OT texts, clearly Jesus and YAHWEH as one Being will judge all men. Now, reading again, its clear to see that Paul called God(YAHWEH) and Jesus as the same Being.

Q.E.D. Let's move to another prerogative of God.

N.B: The gospel is simple. God became a man. And acted as both God and man at the same time. To teach men how to worship God right and to make it possible for and show men how to become sons of God. So quoting scriptures that reveal God's humanity which happened only about 2000 years ago takes nothing away from the Word's original existence as one Being with the Father.

#3 THE THRONE OF GOD
It is evident that God owns the sovereign throne in the whole universe and every other is subservient to His. We also know that Jesus is enthroned at the right hand of the Father. This statement has made the carnal mind think that the Father sits on one throne and the Son sits located beside Him at the right.
But does the bible teach that Jesus is literally seated at the right hand of the Father or does the bible teach it is figurative as both Father and Son as One Being have one throne?
Let's find out:

In the apocalypse, John is given the clearest revelation of the heavenly administration in all the scripture. In Revelation 4, he describes the throne of God surrounded by elders' thrones. Notice he doesn't describe any throne located at the literal right of God's throne because there is no such throne.

So just where in heaven is the throne of the Son, the Lamb of God?
Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

The answer is clear here that it is only one throne, not two different thrones, belonging to God and also to the Lamb. Both are one Being and have just one throne in heaven and his servants serve him.
Now watch again!

Rev 20:11-13 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Furthermore, notice that it is this same Being, God who sits on the throne that will judge both the living and the dead. Some say this is the Father because the heaven and earth fled from his face. True, but it is Father and Son in one Being more precisely.
Remember we have shown in #2 that it is both YAHWEH of OT and Jesus Christ in one Being who will judge the dead and living.(2Ti 4:1, Ecc 3:17)
Again watch!

Rev 11:16-18 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

Finally, we see even more clearly here that its the same god who sits on the single sovereign throne who all the elders worship. Surely this is the Father, YAHWEH whose throne was described in the midst of the elders in Revelation 4.
But its also he who will judge the dead(unrighteous) and the living,(the prophets whom he will reward with his saints). Of course we know who it is that judges the dead and living by now. Surely it is the Lord Jesus(2Ti 4:1). Again, we see here Father and Word, as one Being, bearing the title "Who is and was and is to come"(as shown in the #1) in one Being sits on the single sovereign throne and will reign.

Clearly, the right hand of the Father is not literal since there is no throne at his geographical right in John's heavenly vista or any portion of the bible but it is figurative of his Omnipotence. I can treat this separately from the bible after we have all agreed that YAHWEH is Jesus.

Q.E.D. Let's move to another prerogative of God

N.B: The gospel is simple. God became a man. And acted as both God and man at the same time. To teach men how to worship God right and to make it possible for and show men how to become sons of God. So quoting scriptures that reveal God's humanity which happened only about 2000 years ago takes nothing away from the Word's original existence as one Being with the Father.

#4 WORSHIP OF GOD
To Hebrews, worship and service of any heavenly being are one and the same thing. Also, some christian sects today claim that there are many gods apart from YAHWEH. Even if we claim God's angels or men are also called gods, at least we can agree that YAHWEH commanded that He is the only god among all the "gods" to be worshipped and served.

Exo 20:2-5 KJV I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

The Lord Jesus himself said to Satan:
Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve

Clearly worship/service of god belongs only to YAHWEH.

Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him

But above, we see that YAHWEH who commanded that He alone be worshipped and no created god also commanded that all the angels worship Jesus Christ because the Father and Word are one Being. Obviously, God is not contradicting Himself.
Now watch again!

Isa 45:21-23 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I YAHWEH? and there is no God else beside Me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

YAHWEH who also calls himself Saviour, the same title with Jesus, declared that unto him alone all must bow the knee and confess to for no there is other god besides Him. The Romans adopted this very concept and made people worship their emperor's by bowing the knee and confessing to the Emperor/King. This worship which includes the knee bowing and tongue confessing is only for YAHWEH, the emperor of the Universe.
But to whom will all knees bow and all tongues confess?

Phi 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

It can be no clearer that YAHWEH and the the Word are one Being as god as by comparing the two above texts. And to bow and confess to Jesus as Lord/Supreme is to glorify/worship the Father at the same time because they are One Being as god.
We see also in the following text that the Father and Word bearing the title "Who is , was and is to come" (shown in #1), who as one Being will judge both the living and the dead, (shown in #2), that are on one sovereign throne (shown in #3). It is this Father and Word who are worshipped by the elders in heaven as One Being and both called the Almighty.

Rev 11:16-18 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

We also know Israel worshipped and served YAHWEH. A good question is who did the apostles worship and serve? Should they serve an angel or any created being. If so, they are idol worshippers.

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
James boldly declares that he is a servant of God and Jesus Christ because they are One Being and he is not an idol worshipper therefore.

See also who Paul served
Phi 1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:
Paul served Jesus Christ (Also Romans 1:1, Tit 1:1)

Once again it is clear that YAHWEH who alone is to be worshipped and served is One Being with the Word who is also worshipped and served at the same time.

Q.E.D. Let's move to another prerogative of God.

N.B: The gospel is simple. God became a man. And acted as both God and man at the same time. To teach men how to worship God right and to make it possible for and show men how to become sons of God. So quoting scriptures that reveal God's humanity which happened only about 2000 years ago takes nothing away from the Word's original existence as one Being with the Father.

cornelboy:
If you carefully study the Bible, you would see and understand that the existence of only one true GOD, the Almighty was taught.
Jesus confirmed this in John 17:3, also Paul supported the authentic believe of the one true God, YaHweh who is the Father of all is a single person not "three in one God" or " God in three persons" as Trinitarians says. 1 corinthians 8:6.

Razzness:
U see this concept of trinity, is something that sends my brain to shutdown whenever i think about it, i never seem to comprehend it.
I can comprehend everyother doctrine in christainity with ease, but to make myself believe that God is three in one is beyond me.

Razzness:
U see this concept of trinity, is something that sends my brain to shutdown whenever i think about it, i never seem to comprehend it.
I can comprehend everyother doctrine in christainity with ease, but to make myself believe that God is three in one is beyond me.

Razzness:
U see this concept of trinity, is something that sends my brain to shutdown whenever i think about it, i never seem to comprehend it.
I can comprehend everyother doctrine in christainity with ease, but to make myself believe that God is three in one is beyond me.

cornelboy:
If you carefully study the Bible, you would see and understand that the existence of only one true GOD, the Almighty was taught.
Jesus confirmed this in John 17:3, also Paul supported the authentic believe of the one true God, YaHweh who is the Father of all is a single person not "three in one God" or " God in three persons" as Trinitarians says. 1 corinthians 8:6.

solite3:
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

look, the father, son and Holy Spirit has one name.
Jesus was equating the father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.
It is ridiculous for the Son, the Father and the Holy Spirit to have one name if they are not equal and are not all separate persons.

did you read Genesis where God said let us create man in our image?
there was no other being with God in creating all things.

Here below Isaiah records,

Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
someone is being sent by the Lord God and his spirit. It means the Spirit is a separate individual from the Lord.


here below the Holy Ghost spake,

Acts 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

note it was not the father that spake, neither was it Jesus that spake but the Holy Ghost who spoke,

The Holy Ghost is a person on his own, The Son is a person on his own and the Father is a person on his own.

Jesus taught that the Holy Ghost is a person separate from himself and the father

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.


The Holy Spirit does not speak of himself but Christ.

The Holy Spirit is a person who has a mind and a will of his own different from the father and the Son.
yet the Holy Spirit, The Father and Jesus are one God.

First, the word translated "itself'' in Romans 8:26 is "pneuma'' which means "spirit." (Since the "spirit" is like air (Genesis 1:7, John 3: we use the word "pneumatic' ' to describe things that are air operated.) In Greek every word has its own distinct gender, masculine, feminine or neuter. Masculine gender is denoted by the article "o," feminine by "a," and neuter by "to.'' The word for spirit, "pneuma" is neuter, a fact which is known to even first year Greek language students

UceeGod:
You can't grasp the concept of a Being who exists in 3 Persons with JUST your human mind. The natural mind is too haughty to be taught by God. Humble yourself and sincerely ask Him to illuminate your heart with His Truth.

Maximus69:
The simple logic you can use to unfold all false teachings is in these three segments.

THEORY
PRACTICAL APPLICATION and
BENEFIT

Teachers of the THEORIES should be able to help learners with its PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS so that observers can see its BENEFITS.

Since the second century till today Trinity has proved to be worthless and hopeless, instead of uniting adherents it has continued to cause more divisions, arguments, strifes even killings of the adherents by their own cohorts.

According to the Bible book of Isaiah, Jesus will become the Prince of Peace {Isaiah 9:6-7} this means Peace will reign amongst his followers. John 14:27

Considering the impact of TRINITY teachings,the exact opposite of this is what's applicable, so TRINITY is a fallacy!

cornelboy:
If you carefully study the Bible, you would see and understand that the existence of only one true GOD, the Almighty was taught.
Jesus confirmed this in John 17:3, also Paul supported the authentic believe of the one true God, YaHweh who is the Father of all is a single person not "three in one God" or " God in three persons" as Trinitarians says. 1 corinthians 8:6.

cornelboy:
If you carefully study the Bible, you would see and understand that the existence of only one true GOD, the Almighty was taught.
Jesus confirmed this in John 17:3, also Paul supported the authentic believe of the one true God, YaHweh who is the Father of all is a single person not "three in one God" or " God in three persons" as Trinitarians says. 1 corinthians 8:6.

paxonel:
questions:
1.do you believe that Jesus Christ himself was that Yahweh? John 1:1
2. Where is God located?

cornelboy:
Jesus is not Yahweh, Jesus was sent by YAHWEH as the Messiah.

We all know that GOD is a Spirit

and lives in heaven of heavens...

paxonel:
That one was story for the Jews in bible days to believe, not Christians.
I mentioned John 1:1
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, AND THE WORD WAS GOD.
Is Yahweh not God?
And this scripture affirmed that THE WORD WAS GOD, meaning the word was Yahweh, how do you explain that?
true, he is a spirit, he is a spirit that lives in us as the holy spirit.
where is heaven?
If you think that heaven is beyond the clouds then you have to rethink because there is no place beyond the clouds that is spiritual where a spirit God dwells
Heaven is right inside you!
Your body is the temple of God that's where God dwells

cornelboy:
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They are verses that proves that They are distinct beings and God is supreme over all (including Jesus himself). 1 Corith. 11:3.

paxonel:
whatever verses you see can never contradict what John 1:1 affirmed, AND THE WORD WAS GOD.

1 Corinthians 11:3 ...and the head of Christ is God

Does this contradict John 1:1?
I don't think so.

Because, if you look at it carefully, you will not be confused the word CHRIST used by Paul in that scripture
the analogy Paul was making was between The man(head of the family) and Christianity which has God as the head, not between The man(head of the family) and Christ who is now a spirit.
An intelligent writer like Paul would not possibly make analogy between what is physical(man: head of the family) and what is a spirit(the resurrected Christ who is now a spirit and God) it does not follow.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

paxonel:
whatever verses you see can never contradict what John 1:1 affirmed, AND THE WORD WAS GOD.

1 Corinthians 11:3 ...and the head of Christ is God

Does this contradict John 1:1?
I don't think so.

Because, if you look at it carefully, you will not be confused the word CHRIST used by Paul in that scripture
the analogy Paul was making was between The man(head of the family) and Christianity which has God as the head, not between The man(head of the family) and Christ who is now a spirit.
An intelligent writer like Paul would not possibly make analogy between what is physical(man: head of the family) and what is a spirit(the resurrected Christ who is now a spirit and God) it does not follow.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

cornelboy:
you got some points wrong out of misinterpretation.
Answer these questions:
1. "and the Word was God", does it says that "the Word was the God"?
Definitely that verse talks about two persons; "the Word was WITH God". It's logical to conclude that "Jesus is a God" but not the "one true GOD". John 17:3, 24.


2. John 17:1 KJV, "These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come...."
from this verse who was Jesus praying to, and where was the "person" he prayed to is

paxonel:
to that note :
There is the one and only God, that is God himself.
There is Jesus Christ sent by the one and only God
And thirdly, there is the holy spirit(the comforter) ?

You have a point there

But if scriptures affirmed that there was one Yahweh from the beginning, that means these three are one