FOLYKAZE:


Religion is dwindling in countries with better infrastructure, good economy, and exposure to education.

It is a new age, information and data processing.

Peace bro

TATIME:


What a happy reconciliation!

I really love this!

FOLYKAZE:


Show evidences, from the bible, where it is stated that Nimrod built the tower.

The reason for building the tower, according to the bible is that they wanted to make name for themselves. No where in the bible was it stated that they projected to escape another deluge with the tower

Didn't God promised Noah that he would not destroy the world again with flooding? So what is all these conspiracies about flooding coming from?

These people built so many cities, not huts. The migration started from Ararat where the Ark docked, and they went Eastward around today Iraq. So when you say they are not filling the world, you are making it appear they sit duck at Ararat. They were continually moving and yet along building cities.

Continental drift has no basis in the bible. As a matter of fact, the Bible writers are unaware of continents or any world outside middle east

Any explanation what this verse got to with tower of babel?

MuttleyLaff:


They have been dying many moons and moons ago, long before even the white man ever dreamt of setting foot on the Atlantic shore

TATIME:


What a happy reconciliation!

I really love this!

adoyi8:
What will happen to your Igbo ancestors that did not know or believe in Jesus before they died. Remember that Jesus said he is the only way to God so it means that all your ancestors will be roasted in hell for not believing something they did not hear while you their descendant will be bowing day and night singing praises to the wicked being that is roasting your ancestors unjustly. I pity for you.

diridiri:
They died due to the white man's acts of barbarism, which he did in the name of this god whom you so fervently worship. Don't be ignorant.

MuttleyLaff:
They have been dying many moons and moons ago, long before even the white man ever dreamt of setting foot on the Atlantic shore

diridiri:
Yes, because people die, but the person I was replying to was acting like they died because of divine judgement from God the all forgiving. I was just pointing out that white men caused a lot of deaths in their attempt to "spread the good gospel of god" a god who would never have allowed something like that to happen if he were just.

petra1:


Read the book of jasher . It gives more details .

Also kindly Google historical books or Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimrod?wprov=sfla1

petra1:
Remember the bible didn't give details but summary. Book of JASHER is known for details . Even among biblical scribes.

Joshua 10:13
. . . Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven. .

petra1:
Rebbelion doesn't recognize covenant . We may leave that out for now then.

petra1:
Kindly read the verse yourself

Genesis 11:4
And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth

petra1:
It sure does. This is what led to Continental drift.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvwUAUJjIM0

petra1:
Yes the rebbellion decided to occupy in one location and dwell in a city of tower . As they multiply they would rise higher in the structure. God had to scatter them and broke the earth into continents in the days of Peleg

FOLYKAZE:
Oga Muttley, stop playing the ostrich game here. There is nothing in those verses that indicated descent of Shem and Japheth took any direction aside the East.

I am still challenging you, again and again, if you have any evidence from the Bible, you should drop it here.

FOLYKAZE:
That substance had better be magic mushroom dust... It is a natural substance that takes one into climax, where heaven and earth would be under your feat. I wish you can try magic mushroom, way better than green algae una dey line up to buy at molete.

Please drop "thr" cheap crack. It has led you into making typo errors, or dropping incoherent fancy twists.

In your own words
Your bible sub literacy is affecting you understanding Bible 101 basics, like what does East, imply and convey. If not you would have understood what in biblical language does it mean jot journey eastways away from God.

FOLYKAZE:
I didn't clearly don't understand what you meant or point you were trying to drive with the statement above. I only reconstructed and came with this:

FOLY, if you had understood the bible vividly, you would have seen that East, when used in the scripture, implies opposite direction of where God is.

FOLYKAZE:
Therefore, God is in the west, and satan is in the east.

FOLYKAZE:
This is why I asked if Eden in the east is in the ungodly foot of satan.

FOLYKAZE:
You are not supporting your claim with Bible or viewpoint of bible scholars.

FOLYKAZE:
1. The Bible didn't state particularly that Nimrod built the tower. That is simply the idea of Christian and Jewish traditions.

FOLYKAZE:
2. Gen 11:1 stated clearly that the people referred to are whole world populace. I have submitted view of Bible scholars to support this.

FOLYKAZE:
Oga stop bamboozling me with fancy words.

FOLYKAZE:
Gen 11:1 states that the whole world populace spoke one language.

At Gen 11:2, you deviated and said the people involved in building the tower are descendants of Ham, excluding Shem and Japheth.

Reading Gen 11:7, we found that the language of descents of Ham was confounded. Meanwhile, according to you, the language of the descent of Shem and Japheth were not tempered with.

This implies, unless at a point God tempered with the language of Shem and Japheth which you are yet to substantiate, the descent of Shem and Japheth should be speaking one language today. New language cannot just appear magically unless God has caused it.

And the absence of one language among the descent of Shem and Japheth buttress that they are involved in the building of the tower, and in that process got their own tongue confounded too

FOLYKAZE:
The letter is written in red color here. I be Learner na. Lol

FOLYKAZE:
It seems you ain't pleased with the commentary. Ok, here is another justifying my point

https://www.bibleref.com/Genesis/11/Genesis-11-2.html

Down the line at Gen 11:9, it reads
Genesis 11:9 (ESV): 9 Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the LORD confused the language of all the earth. And from there the LORD dispersed them over the face of all the earth.

1. The commentaries including another supporting bible verse stated that the language of the whole earth was confounded. This include all the three sons of Noah.

FOLYKAZE:
2. Descents of Shem and Japheth are all involved in the project. It was a collective efforts of people of one language.

FOLYKAZE:
There is no correlation between Eliphaz narration and tower of babel incident.
They are two different scenarios.

FOLYKAZE:
It is what it is.

MuttleyLaff:
Look here Ọga FOLY, I have already posited you that context is king. The whole gamut of correct/accurate Bible interpretation, exegesis and/or hermeneutics is summed up in the phrase "context is king".

Now if peradventure you had abided by that principle, you would have got the nerve to think of some ignorant challenging to do again and again, asking for evidence to be dropped anywhere. When you are reading bible verses in isolation, why would you think, there will be anything in the verses that indicated "descent of Shem and Japheth took any direction aside the East" sic

At this juncture, please, show me, where you found, I did ever type, that the descendants of Shem and Japheth took any direction at all and took aside the East.

MuttleyLaff:
"Yes, Nimrod and his company, attempted building the tower to get a name for themselves, have their own god(s) and be their own god, having no need for God and no need to call on His name."
Nimrod, united the people to gather together to profane God."
"Not according to me, my dear friend, but according to the bible narrative in Genesis 10:9-10, we read that Nimrod's kingdom began in the region of Shinar (i.e. Babylonia) and that he was a fearless hunter in defiance of God. Now fast forward to Genesis 11:2, we further read that, after began moving away from God, this metaphorically means, they journeyed from the East, as in meaning, moved away from the presence of God. This is not surprising, being that, they are descendants of Ham, relics, of the earlier time Nephilim gene pool"
"The people that Nimrod gathered together were descendants of Ham,

MuttleyLaff:
I immediately spotted and corrected the fat finger typo last night or in the early hours of the day when that post was hurriedly typed. I didnt know you are this nitpicking and a kofam bonafide hypocrite. There is a typo above in your quote and there's construct that don't make sense in the below quote of yours. He who lives in a glasshouse, ought not to throw stone. KMT. Mtcheew.

You've being behaving out of character since you've returned back from your hiatus. You've being employing all sorts of underhand tactics, so just to, by whatever means necessary, get an edge over. Smh.

Look at him, behaving as if, he isn't aware of what suggestive text and predictive text technology are. The word prediction or an assistive technology, kept changing my words and HTML tag typed. I am lucky I caught a few, but for the odd ones that slipped through the net, Ọga FOLY wants to hang me out, to dry, for it. If he had revisited the posts, he would have noticed that I had already corrected a few good ones, so to prevent misunderstandings.

Read the red emboldened and the underlined, do you clearly understand what you were trying to convey or understand the point you were trying to make with the above underlined construct, hmm? Yinmu. Smello firigbọn alatọle. KMT

CEB
When they traveled east, they found a valley in the land of Shinar and settled there.

CSB
As people migrated from the east, they found a valley in the land of Shinar and settled there.

CEV
but after some of them moved from the east and settled in Babylonia,

AMP
And as people journeyed eastward, they found a plain in the land of Shinar and they settled there.

ASV
And it came to pass, as they journeyed east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.

ESV
And as people migrated from the east, they found a plain in the land of Shinar and settled there.

GNT
As they wandered about in the East, they came to a plain in Babylonia and settled there.

ISV
As people migrated westward, they came across a plain in the region of Shinar and settled there.

MuttleyLaff:
Nope and capital NO, that God is in the west, and satan is in the east, because God, in fact, is in the east

MuttleyLaff:
Watch this, if you are already in the east, and then start to move to the east/eastward, what do you think you embarked there and then to be doing? Exactamundo! You’re moving away from God.

MuttleyLaff:
the [size=12pt]Bible scholars? Pfft. You make me laugh. Have you heard of the Spirit of Truth. Why not, out of curiosity, go find out from John 16:13 who He is and what He does

MuttleyLaff:
I agree with the Bible that Nimrod did not build the tower. I also know and agree that, it simply the idea of Christians that Nimrod physically built the tower. Now having said all that, you'll have a task on your hand trying to find any quote of me, ever alluding that Nimrod physically or actually built a tower

MuttleyLaff:
Are these your favourite Bible scholars better human being than you are? Do these Bible scholars you are sucking up have exclusivity monopoly of knowledge and information, huh? Would it be an element of inferiority complex that stops you from having a legitimate objective understanding of Genesis 11:1 and its context, that's totally independent of and free of favourite Bible scholars' cognitive distortions, huh?

You think, I am you, trying to bamboozle me by proof-texting with Lamentations 3:37, when you dont have a scooby doo what the import of Lamentations 3:37 is talking about

MuttleyLaff:
God "tempered"? Tempered indeed. Now mister, as I earlier typed, and repeating what I earlier asked you because you are repeating the same invalid sentiment.

Why should they descendants of Shem and Japheth today or even back then, remain speaking one language, huh? Are you God, to be dictating how things should pan out or develop ni? Does the sun only shine on good people alone without shinning on bad people, huh. Does rain only fall on your missus believer wife and not also on you a non believer, hmm? Then what will and who can stop God from tampering with the language of Shem and Japheth, just as much as He did with the the language of Ham's descendants, huh?

Smh. I kept drumming it into to your ears, but it goes in one ear and comes out the other. Why not stick your finger in one ear so the advice doesnt filter out through the other ear hole, hmm?

MuttleyLaff:
is You think you're being comical, but you've only with the irrational comment and lol, betrayed your ignorance.

Fyi, have this freely given education on me. Green L plates, indicates lack of experience, but yeah, as for you, a red L plate, indicating you're a learner and danger to others, suits you, fine. You actually should be sanctioned from typing the rubbish you heaped on this thread

MuttleyLaff:
Why not bring proof of me saying, that the language of the whole earth was not confounded or that it didn't include the three sons of Noah nah?

MuttleyLaff:
Since you love Bible scholars, why not try Matthew Poole's Commentary. It'll surprise you that it agrees nicely with the brief given me, that it was Nimrod and the descendants of Ham, led by Nimrod who were moving away from God (i.e. defiantly journeying eastward, away from God's presence and influence) When you move from the east, towards the east, like Nimrod & Co did, then, you are moving away, from the presence and influence of God.

Read Matthew Poole's Commentaries on Genesis 11:1 and Genesis 11:2 by clicking on this weblink below:
Matthew Poole's Commentary
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/poole/genesis/11.htm

MuttleyLaff:
The correlation is the aspect of "east".

Eliphaz is Job's contemporary, with Job being the greatest man among all the people of the East. I introduced the Eliphaz narration talking about the Noahide flood, that preceded the Tower of Babel infamous incident because of bringing you into knowing the implication, meaning and significance of "east" in the Bible?

I could share more into "east" but it'll be info overload, and besides that, will be out of scope

MuttleyLaff:
Yinmu.

Would "I focuses rather on philosophical and spirituality aspect of Isese only" sic, save your soul (i.e. your ''ori'') from eternal destruction?

Would "I focuses rather on philosophical and spirituality aspect of Isese only" sic, rid forever, once and for all, sin(s), and all the societal ills, calamities, affliction, pains, misery, destitution, plagues, sickness, poverty et cetera of this world, hmm?

FOLYKAZE:
Oh common! It is my label, my game.

FOLYKAZE:
Lagbaja has said it. A meat is reported missing in the pot, and lamori said the meat is not salty, commonsense should tell that lamori is the thief who stole the meat... Hahahaha

FOLYKAZE:
Some people built a tower. And they got punished for their action.

FOLYKAZE:
You claim Mr S and Mr J were not involved in the project, but shared from the punishment.

FOLYKAZE:
Matthew Poole is not conforming with your submissions at all.

FOLYKAZE:
1. He claimed Nimrod migrated from Assyria to Shinar. There is no evidence to this claim in the bible.
2. His migration pattern is from one geographical location to another point. It has no spiritual undertone as you suggested.

FOLYKAZE:
Please share

Share ko. Chair ni
I am not going to waste the share on undeserving you, bar than sign post you to Genesis chapter 10 (i.e. the first half) Good luck on the road that leads to satori

FOLYKAZE:
Leave the mudslinging for pigs, the blood bath is for big cats

You really have turned deplorable worse and disgracefully rotten sha and would use whatever tactic, so just to have one over.

Seem you have conveniently chosen to forget that it was you living in a glass house that was throwing stone, nitpicking on my fat finger typo(s) and omission(s), spotting errors, behaving as if, you yourself don't fart. Now when I, in return, ent on to, pick up and show all your grammatical errors, misspellings, your not able to be understood sentence constructions, you're now resorted to using this insincere sentimental claptrap

MuttleyLaff:
Pftt. Smh.
At the rate you're going, you'll soon by taking your bicycle and become Billy-no-mates, having no one to play with

MuttleyLaff:
Mtcheew. Shey ọrọ wa leleyi ni? KMT
If you have no proof to present of me saying, that the language of the whole earth was not confounded or that it didn't include the three sons of Noah, then please, shut the foxtrot uniform charlie kilo up jor ojaare

MuttleyLaff:
Smh. Ogbeni, mister man the tower was not physically built, it was a proposal that didnt get its foot off the ground. When would you start exactly reading what you see in the Bible, just they its printed, huh?

MuttleyLaff:

[size=12pt]So? Your point then is what?
Does rain fall on, both the good and bad?
Does the sun shine on both the good and the bad?

MuttleyLaff:
What makes you think it was punishment for Messers S, J and their descendants, hmm?

MuttleyLaff:
Oh yes he does. He corroborates my submission that the descendant of Ham led by Nimrod, he rebel moved east, symbolically meaning they move away, in defiance, from the influence, protection and covering of God

MuttleyLaff:
As you like it. If you dont agree, then watch to see, if I care

MuttleyLaff:
Share ko. Chair ni
I am not going to waste the share on undeserving you, bar than sign post you to Genesis chapter 10 (i.e. the first half) Good luck on the road that leads to satori

MuttleyLaff:
You really have turned deplorable worse and disgracefully rotten sha and would use whatever tactic, so just to have one over.

Seem you have conveniently chosen to forget that it was you living in a glass house that was throwing stone, nitpicking on my fat finger typo(s) and omission(s), spotting errors, behaving as if, you yourself don't fart. Now when I, in return, ent on to, pick up and show all your grammatical errors, misspellings, your not able to be understood sentence constructions, you're now resorted to using this insincere sentimental claptrap

FOLYKAZE:
[s]Quit this childishness. I am not available for the banter tradings.

You have long lost touch with the discussion on this thread. You were here telling us Ham descendants conspired with Nimrod to build a tower. Descendants of Shem and Japheth were excluded in your own thinking. However, you turned around and said these people who were not involved got equal and effective reaction of an action they are not partying in. How is it possible? It is basically illogical. I am giving you for an umpteenth time an opportunity to explain yourself, tell us when and how descent of Shem and Japheth got their language confounded if they weren't part of the construction of the tower.

Indeed you have lost touch with reality.

Genesis 11:5-6
5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building.
6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them

In the OP, I said they were progressing with actualisation of the project. The verses above showed they already made a progress.

And the progress gave birth to what we know today as Ziggurat. Ziggurat is a physical structure sir. And the Bible verse above shows they had physically and progressively built a structure in Babel.

Rain and sunshine, unless in rare conditions like in the days of Noah and Joshua, are natural/neutral occurrence by God, rather than been punitive measure caused by God for the action and inaction of men.

Confounding of human language only happened in Babel, as recorded in the bible. You have pointed out that descent of Shem and Japheth were not in Babel or took part in the tower building, but somehow, magically severally punished for an action they were not involved.

Genesis 11:8-9
8 So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city.
9 That is why it was called Babel[c]—because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.

From Babel, God scattered the whole human populace over all the earth. While rather you posit, contrary to what the Bible said, that descent of Shem and Japheth were not party in the babel construction, did not gather but spread out on their own, and magically lost their original tongue.

Verse 9 pointed out at Babel, the Lord confused the language of the whole world. The whole world populace were involved at the babel construction, and they equally got punished for their action.

Oga shatap abeg.

You have agreed there is no evidence Nimrod built the tower in the bible, and that claim are rooted only in Christian tradition.

It is what it is Muttley.

Mathew claim the people journeyed from Assyria without any evidence in the bible.

And the migration pattern is geographical, not having any spiritual undertone

Hahahahaha

I have read Genesis 10 over and over. All I found is heap of cowdung available for a pack on your doorstep.

Firstly, Genesis 10:20 These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, and in their nations.

If the incident in Genesis 10 predate Genesis 11, descents of Ham had multiplied in their thousands, spoke different language, spread over different countries and nations.

I would want Petra1 to understand Gen 10:25 doesn't imply continental shift. Gen 10:25 has been explained in Genesis 10:5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations. Tongues before babel.

A better translation holds that peleg is racial divide.

MSG
Arphaxad had Shelah and Shelah had Eber. Eber had two sons, Peleg (so named because in his days the human race divided) and Joktan.

TLB
Two sons were born to Eber: Peleg (meaning “Division,” for during his lifetime the people of the world were separated and dispersed), and Joktan (Peleg’s brother).

GNT
Eber had two sons: one was named Peleg, because during his time the people of the world were divided; and the other was named Joktan.

AMP
Two sons were born to Eber; the name of one was Peleg (division), for [the inhabitants of] the earth were divided in his days; and his brother’s name was Joktan.

I am not ready for mudslinging Muttley. And already told you what I thought you meant which you have already corrected... God is in the east.. And satan is in the west. Hahahaha[/s]

MuttleyLaff:

FOLYKAZE:
[s]Hahahaha

I have most time wondered, how old is this muttley guy that be wants mudslinging all his life?[/s]

FOLYKAZE:

Hahahaha
I have most time wondered, how old is this muttley guy that be wants mudslinging all his life?

FOLYKAZE:

.

I would want Petra1 to understand Gen 10:25 doesn't imply continental shift. Gen 10:25 has been explained in Genesis 10:5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations. Tongues before babel.

A better translation holds that peleg is racial divide.

MSG
Arphaxad had Shelah and Shelah had Eber. Eber had two sons, Peleg (so named because in his days the human race divided) and Joktan.

TLB
Two sons were born to Eber: Peleg (meaning “Division,” for during his lifetime the people of the world were separated and dispersed), and Joktan (Peleg’s brother).

GNT
Eber had two sons: one was named Peleg, because during his time the people of the world were divided; and the other was named Joktan.

AMP
Two sons were born to Eber; the name of one was Peleg (division), for [the inhabitants of] the earth were divided in his days; and his brother’s name was Joktan.

And the progress gave birth to what we know today as Ziggurat.

jamesid29:
Cc FOLYKAZE... So following the conversation for a while , I must say, it's a bit refreshing to see a critique of the scriptures that actually takes their time to read what the text actually says rather than what they remember from Sunday school.

Out of curiosity, since you already know what was been built at Babel was a ziggurat

Why do you still hold that God's action of scattering the people was because of their mere unity in building a tower?

FOLYKAZE:
It's Sunday today, would like to be in the church. So I picked the Sunday school book and saw the topic for the day, The Unity at Babel. The teaching was set around the account in Genesis 11 which tells about the origin of human language, astronomy, and architect. According to the Genesis 11, there were some human populace, who spoke one language, came to agreement within themselves and agreed to build a city with a tower that it top is in heaven. The project commenced immediately and progressively. However, this progress caught the attention of God. He quickly summoned his councils in heaven to a meeting and decreed that the project must be stopped by confounding human's language. In the account, one could find that the purpose of the project is exhibition of architecture designs, understanding and dominating sky, and showcasing that things are achievable through unity. However, God was furious that man wae uniting and reaching for the sky.

Legend has it that If there was a tower of Babel, it was Etemenanki: a massive, stone ziggurat at the center of Babylon, presently at the southern Baghdad, Iraq. Record has it that ziggurat is 91m high. This goes to show that God became angry because Human built a structure recording 91m im height. Today, the tallest building is Al Burj Khalifa in UAE, measuring 830m in height. This mean human have successfully built a structure that is higher than what angered God back then. This they did with unity of different engineers, labor, and finances from all across the world, cutting barriers of languages, and exhibiting brilliance and might of humankind.

Beyond the tip of Burj Khalifa, Man have dominated the sky by building Aeroplanes and jets which can fly way above 20,000m. The highest commercial airliner altitude was 18288m by Concorde. The highest military air-breathing engine airplane was the SR-71 — about 27432m. Humans have built International Space Station, a kind of home or lab in the low earth orbit. The ISS was successfully built by collaboration of multiple nations. Man has also travelled and walked in space, set boot and projecting to build base on the moon, and are annexing all resources to set boot on Mars before 2035. The farthest human material in space is the Voyager1 which has almost gone past our solar system. It has reached interstellar space and currently 11.7 billion miles away from earth. Humans have robotic probes, satellites, telescopes in our solar system, and beam lights into deepest parts of the universe. Soonest, human will build a colony on other planets, planetary bodies, and even mine asteroids. Imagine having sex on the moon? This is total dominance and colonisation of the sky and space. Not forgetting, this height was made successful by the collective efforts of man from different tongue, color, belief system and backgrounds.

Space exploration goes beyond understanding nature of the universe. It has provided us deep understanding of origin of universe, planets and the solar system. It has revealed human are stardust. It has helped us relate with the outside world and ourselves. Before now, we had preachers and Evangelists. Today, we have Televangelists who have adopted the technology of satellite communication and television. Evangelism has gone from door to door to worldwide reaches through satellite communications with radio, television, internet and telephone services. Omniscient God couldn't foresight the benefit of space exploration of Babel tower, he disrupted the project which later helped his ministry.

Advancement and unity in tech development have broken the barriers of tongue. Bible is now printed in more than 2500 languages. A simple lingua apps can break the barrier God created and expand on evangelism.

God was angry with human because they built a structure which reached the height of 91m. What would he supposedly do now that we have human built machine that is 11.7 billion miles deep into space?

God was angry human united to build the tower of Babel. Five nations came together to build and launch ISS into Earth low orbit, is God really against human unity and togetherness?

He confounded human language but man is breaking that barrier today with multi-lingua systems, helping expansion of evangelism. Does God not have foresight before creating this problem in the first place?


MuttleyLaff Budaatum, Emusan, Janosky, Maximus69 and all God soldiers on the forum



School dismissed, hurray!

Sunday school heya finish. Music section too don close. Abeg na house sure pass.

Csonice1:


hurray!

but you got a poor grade at the end.

God knows possibilities from the beginning. for the sake of the choice given to man; they can choose any path. God knows where each path will lead to, even though it may seem right unto a man, the end may be destruction vice versa.

The project wasn't the problem, the unity wasn't the problem; the motive behind it was.
they wanted to make a name for themselves and remain in a single place(but God's word must be fulfilled); they were not doing it to Glorify God but to make a boast of strength in themselves: God forbids that. God also knew what he had put in a man, and it was best to give them different languages.

jamesid29:
Cc FOLY... So following the conversation for a while , I must say, it's a bit refreshing to see a critic of the scriptures that actually takes their time to read what the text actually says rather than what they remember from Sunday school.

So out of curiosity, since you already know what was been built at Babel was a ziggurat

Why do you still hold that God's action of scattering the people was because of their mere unity in building a tower?

petra1:


The less is included on the greater. When languages were confounded. People regrouped according to tongues and separated and God splited the earth .


I don't think its proper to use the language "BETTER TRANSLATION "

Secondly they trsnslated according to their understanding. The word used "eres" in Hebrew means esrth ground. Not language

Eber was a prophet he already knew what was coming. And named his son Peleg- which means division or earthquake or division by earth quake. The esrth was broken . This triggered Continental drift

Maximus69:


The problem most Churchgoers have today is ignorance!

The divine name YAHWEH (JEHOVAH) simply means "He who causes to become"
The event @ Babel revealed how God outwitted Satan who wanted to gather all the people under his domain using the bait of a tower thought to have been a means of strength to imperfect humans, God proved his name beyond reasonable doubt that even without people speaking the same language he has the power to make them speak as one family!

Satan's reasoning that people can only unite if they're of the one literal language was excellently flaw, when we see deadly disputes within the same tribe or language like Ife/Modakeke crisis!

Well JEHOVAH has united people from different races, tongues, skin-colour, nationalities and caused them to form one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers. Isaiah 2:2-4
YES let them know that JEHOVAH has proven his Godship beyond all reasonable doubt, Jehovah's Witnesses Organization is the evidence of his power to do what seems impossible! John 17:21-23

jamesid29:

Okay sir... But this is not an answer to my question though. I'm guessing you were passing across your personal opinion... which is also ok

FOLYKAZE:


That is largely, what is stated in the bible. It could be something else, but I won't make claims outside what is in the bible.

Maximus69:


@bolded is a misconception!

Because there is well over 8.7 million individuals globally having the same mindset and there is no contradictions amongst them, they're having the same line of thought, so it's not some kind of PERSONAL opinion Sir!

jamesid29:

Yeah, you are right about it being a ziggurat and also that it's most likely the ziggurat named Etemenanki boss(I don't think there are many people in academia that would disagree with you on this).
I think where the misconception steams from is that you misunderstand the cultural significance of a ziggurat and what it is built for. I believe if you take a dive into what it is and it's significance in ancient mesopotamia, it would change your reading of Genesis 11.

Csonice1:
hurray!
but you got a poor grade at the end.

Csonice1:
God knows possibilities from the beginning. for the sake of the choice given to man; they can choose any path. God knows where each path will lead to, even though it may seem right unto a man, the end may be destruction vice versa.

Csonice1:
The project wasn't the problem, the unity wasn't the problem; the motive behind it, was.

They wanted to make a name for themselves and remain in a single place (but God's word must be fulfilled); they were not doing it to Glorify God but to make a boast of strength in themselves: God forbids that. God also knew what he had put in a man, and it was best to give them different languages.

MuttleyLaff:
"⁹He became a fearlessf hunter in defiance ofg the LORD.
That is why it is said, “Like Nimrod, a fearless hunter in defiance of and/or before the LORD.”
¹⁰His kingdom began in the regioni of Shinar with the cities of Babylon, Erech, Akkad, and Calneh."
- Genesis 10:9-10

Of course, we were given a preview of Nimrod's character, make up, earlier life and antecedents at Genesis 10:9-10 before that, the infamous event, that happened at Genesis 11:2-4.

Nimrod, was a badass person, so Genesis 10:9 tells us, so due to the sort of person he was, he was the person who led the "they" to go plan, to gather together and make a name for themselves etcetera

Canaan was Nimrod's uncle. True, Cush was Nimrod's father ‎and it was Canaan who was cursed to be a servants of servants to his brothers etcetera. It is probably partly trying to shake off the curse of association, with Canaan, his uncle and Ham his grandfather, that was what propelled Nimrod to be more rebellious, audacious and ambitious.

So, yup, Nimrod and Co, the descendants of Ham, that's Ham, who was neither blessed nor cursed by Noah, were envious of Shem, whose name has two meanings. The first meaning is, "renown", "be known", "make a name for self" "have a prominent name for self" et cetera. The second/alternate/parallel meaning of Shem, is, "dusky red", dusky complexion, complexion with some degree of dark coloration or olive coloured et cetera.

It is the first meaning, that's of particular interest here. The descendants of Ham, we're envious of Shem and his descendants' legacy. They, talking of Ham's descendants because of something in their gene, that still filtered through even after the flood destroying all bad people, coveted Shem and his descendants' heritage and so too, wanted to make a name for themselves, wanted to have name for themselves too, wanted to be renowned, be known all over the world, just the way Noah pronounced that blessing on Shem and his descendants. The descendants of Ham wanted all this, not because of God, not for the glory of God even not to glorify God by it, but was for the self centred reason of be known all over the place for themselves too. They wanted to make and have a name too for themselves.

Lastly and very significantly to note, is that, also, the erection of the tower, was going to typically reminiscence ‎Genesis 4:26b. It was literally them going to use the Tower to profane God's name. The final and successful erection of the high riding pointing in the sky tower, was going to be a symbol of sticking the middle finger up at God, with it, as if saying, go "F" yourself. God wasn't having any of that effrontery. He's had enough of Nimrod and the descendants of Ham's insolence and bad behaviour, that He came down to throw a spanner in their thoughts and so their plan effectively was disrupted.

Man looks at outward appearance, but God looks at the heart. God could see and smell them from 10 miles away, so before they got started, God came down to throw a spanner into their works.‎ Their plan was to make that the first tower and then replicate it to other places. That wasn't going to happen.

Yes, Nimrod and his company, attempted building the tower to get a name for themselves, have their own god(s) and be their own god, having no need for God and no need to call on His name.

FOLYKAZE:
Oh! I like that you don't give it unnecessary twist.
The project wasn't the problem, but even when it will be beneficial to God's ministrations, he never foresaw that and thwarted that brilliant project. We have today numerous modern architecture designs that followed the style of Ziggurat, these buildings are found across the world. The Ziggurat was designed as a doorstep into heavens, that is why it is called Etemenanki, the name for the structure, is Sumerian and means "temple of the foundation of heaven and earth". Etemenanki gives rises to space exploration and architectural revolutions we have today.

There are two problems in your submissions.

Firstly, why should God be given glory for what he didn't do by himself? It's like giving the glory for inventing airplane to God, when in fact, it is the Wright brothers who designed and innovated airplanes.

Secondly, I read through Genesis 9 to 10 and 11. What is wrong with civilizations? These people wanted to become city dwellers but God wanted them to wander around like animals in the bush. Is it God idea that human should live in isolation?

Genesis 10:5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

Genesis 10:20 These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, and in their nations.

If the incidents in Gen 10 predate Gen 11, these people are not isolated. They are already doing well in different countries, nations and cities. They also speak different languages.

jamesid29:
Cc FOLYKAZE... So following the conversation for a while , I must say, it's a bit refreshing to see a critic of the scriptures that actually takes their time to read what the text actually says rather than what they remember from Sunday school.

So out of curiosity, since you already know what was been built at Babel was a ziggurat

Why do you still hold that God's action of scattering the people was because of their mere unity in building a tower?

FOLYKAZE:
That is largely, what is stated in the bible. It could be something else, but I won't make claims outside what is in the bible

jamesid29:
Yeah, you are right about it being a ziggurat and also that it's most likely the ziggurat named Etemenanki boss (I don't think there are many people in academia that would disagree with you on this).
I think where the misconception steams from is that you misunderstand the cultural significance of a ziggurat and what it is built for. I believe if you take a dive into what it is and it's significance in ancient mesopotamia, it would change your reading of Genesis 11.

MuttleyLaff:
Smh. Ogbeni, mister man the tower was not physically built, it was a proposal that didnt get its foot off the ground. When would you start exactly reading what you see in the Bible, just the way its printed, huh?

Watch this. FOLYKAZE, lets go on a shopping spree. Please tell tomorrow, if we really and actually went on the shopping spree. Smh. KMT.

Oh yes he does. He corroborates my submission that the descendant of Ham led by Nimrod, the rebel, moved east, symbolically meaning, they move away, in defiance, from the influence, protection and covering of God

FOLYKAZE:


Oh! I like that you don't give it unnecessary twist. The project wasn't the problem, but even when it will be beneficial to God's ministrations, he never foresaw that and thwarted that brilliant project. We have today numerous modern architecture designs that followed the style of Ziggurat, these buildings are found across the world. The Ziggurat was designed as a doorstep into heavens, that is why it is called Etemenanki, the name for the structure, is Sumerian and means "temple of the foundation of heaven and earth". Etemenanki gives rises to space exploration and architectural revolutions we have today.

There are two problems in your submissions.

Firstly, why should God be given glory for what he didn't do by himself? It's like giving the glory for inventing airplane to God, when in fact, it is the Wright brothers who designed and innovated airplanes.

FOLYKAZE:

Secondly, I read through Genesis 9 to 10 and 11. What is wrong with civilizations? These people wanted to become city dwellers but God wanted them to wander around like animals in the bush. Is it God idea that human should live in isolation?

FOLYKAZE:

Genesis 10:5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

Genesis 10:20 These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, and in their nations.

If the incidents in Gen 10 predate Gen 11, these people are not isolated. They are already doing well in different countries, nations and cities. They also speak different languages.

Csonice1:


Who gives life?
if you are knowlegeable, you will keep quiet here.

Csonice1:
I don't want to sound arrogant; I could have said that you are daft.
For God's plan for humanity, start from Genesis Chapter 1, that's if you will understand.

Csonice1:
Read Genesis5, it is a very good summary of a few chapters. a kind of genealogy. Genesis10 is more or less the same.
I'm amazed at ur level of understanding.
Truly.