kkins25:
muttley:

[img]https://s8/images/MuttleyDriveLaff.gif[/img]
This life erhn. People that believe there aren't any freewill, after the guinea pig experiment test, learned the hard way, after ended up waking on the different and other side of eternity, with a shocking harsh reality of life.

We'll see how you and Blabbermouth will fare if you do have the bottle to actually take the freewill guinea pig experiment test full on, lmso

kkins25:
Me i don't see anything of these happening today.

Excellent! MuttleyLaff will respond to this im sure.

You seem to know me more than I know myself. Of course, you know, I'll throw in that, there is nothing that ever happens in the universe, that happens, without the consent of the Godhead, so affirmative, though God is responsible for allowing Satan to sin, is responsible for A&E's access to the TKGE, they ate the fruit off, responsible for permitting Pharaoh harden his heart, et cetera, God is not responsible for their bad behaviour, is not morally accounted for their behaviour, and they, you kkins25, Blabbermouth, every human being, including moi, all creatures/creation are answerable to God and not vice versa

kkins25:
interesting choice of words. Another way to put it, would be "God didn't expect things to turn out this way".

You didnt detect the irony in that "God didn't forsee it but He prepared a LAMB slain from the foundation of the world" shadeyinka comment

kkins25:
well i'll be a monkey's uncle...

Be my guest, not my circus, not my monkeys. To each his own monkeys, besides, I dont give a monkey's, seeing that again, you didnt detect the ironic tone in that shadeyinka comment

kkins25:
What is time? What is time?

"¹There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens:
²a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot,
³a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build,
⁴a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance,
⁵a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing,
⁶a time to search and a time to give up, a time to keep and a time to throw away,
⁷a time to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to to speak,
⁸a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace."
- Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

kkins25, here are a few for you to order on:
1/ How we are able to keep, track time and know time, huh?
2/ Do you know why we have seasons?
3/ How we are able to know when to plant, sow and harvest?
4/ FWIW, illumination, is not the only purpose of the sun, moon and stars, you know kkins25, hmm?
5/ You do know kkins25, that the moon's purpose, is not only for mere mark time, the seasons and days and years, erhn, lmso?
6/ Are you aware of the effect what an absent moon would do to Earth and its motion about its axis, huh?
7/ This now hypothetically speaking, if the sun, miraculously should disappear, do you have any idea, how long, we will survive for, before getting frozen to death because the sun is no longer there to give out its heat energy, hmm?
8/ Do you know what causes high and low sea tides, huh?
9/ Do you understand what "Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority." - Acts 1:7 means?
10/ Or even understand why the "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." - Matthew 24:36, being that Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ is Yah and vice versa, lmso

I can go on, into deeper and more details on biblical cosmology and/or celestial mechanics, but wouldnt, as it will turn the discourse into information overload

Fyi, the word "time" has so many meanings and has so many usage forms, aside how used in Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 above, lmso. Now here is the interesting point kkins25, the moon, created by God, is used to tell time with, lmso, many people also know we can tell the time and the season by the stars. Case in point, the Magi, used a sighted star to tell the birth of Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, or ''it wasn't time for the fig, to bear fruits'' or even, the time given in the Luke 13:6-8 narrative

shadeyinka:
Time is the measure of interval between two or more physical events.

"¹In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
²Now the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep.
And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.
The First Day
³And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
⁴And God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness.
⁵God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.”
And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day."
- Genesis 1:1-5

"¹³And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
¹⁴And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to distinguish between day and night and to mark the seasons and days and years,
¹⁵And let them serve as lights in the expanse of the sky to shine upon the earth.” And it was so
¹⁶God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night. And He made the stars as well.
¹⁷God set these lights in the expanse of the sky to shine upon the earth,
¹⁸to preside over the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
¹⁹And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day"
- Genesis 1:13-19

"He created the moon, which marks the seasons,
and the sun, which knows when to set"
- Psalm 104:19

"⁷He made the great lights—His loving devotion endures forever.
⁸the sun to rule the day, His loving devotion endures forever.
⁹the moon and stars to govern the night. His loving devotion endures forever."
- Psalm 136:7-8

Here's me complementing shadeyinka's comment where he responded to your "What is time?" asked twice question kkins25.

Remember Genesis 1:14 and the rest above, hmm? Of course, the sun, moon and stars are a link/bridge between the realm of the Spirit and physical, but not just that my dear friend beloved brother kkins25, but when God, on the fourth day, created the sun, moon and stars, God effectively was setting a clock, lmso.

Peterrio:


Did you read the scriptures following my quoted statements?

Whether evil pricks the hearts of some men isn't the issue, that he has specially picked some that no matter what, he has chosen them, and its final

Remember that among the others that he hasn't actually CHOSEN and HANDPICKED there a lot of good hearted people that love to do his will, they will CHOOSE on their own and follow

This is where it calls for discernment on the part of the reader!
God only focus on his own plans, so he is able to see anybody having to do with that arrangement even before they're born. It's like you are planning to renovate and decorate your house, surely you can foretell that bricklayers, painters, interior decorators, tilers, plumbers, electricians will work there and you can also foresee disturbing conditions like rain, windstorm and disappointments from the labourers. Certainly you have to plan ahead of all this if you're wise.

So the success of God's plan is a certainty it's those coming into the arrangement that he is creating chances for that's why he is like foreseeing so much about the Jews because the Christ is to be born from that lineage, anybody whether positively or negatively going to do anything to affect his plans is his concentration.
When professional foretellers of events try to do the same they're dealing with demons who will manipulate events to prove they're also gods even when their own predictions has nothing to do with God's plan for the earth. That's why the Covid19 pandemic came upon all foretellers of events as a shock because all those demons have no power to see it coming.

Peterrio:
[
Time isn't meaningless or irrelevant, a comparison is made here, making time to remain meaningful

A day in the life of a HUMAN is like a thousand years in the life of a MAYFLY

The question asked was in two parts
1. Definition of time from man's point of view
2. Definition of time from God's point of view.

Check the bolded: is the converse also true? Is A thousand years in the life of a HUMAN also like a day in the life of a MAYFLY?

The reference of
2Pet 3:8:
"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord [ as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

is with reference to the Lord and not to man even though man's time (day and years) were used.

MuttleyLaff:

We'll see how you and Blabbermouth will fare if you do have the bottle to actually take the freewill guinea pig experiment test full on, lmso

[img]https://s8/images/MuttleyDriveLaff.gif[/img]
Lee ma oo (in brother Shaggy's voice)
You will never never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever (× infinity) be able to prove that that EVERYONE has ABSOLUTE FREEWILL!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
JESUS: I don't want to take this cup, let it pass over me
Almighty: Take the cup son.
JESUS: I will place your will above mine. If you want me to take the cup, your unending love for me (and mine for you) has compelled me to place your will above mine, Father, I will take it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I'm 100% sure you will go the extreme and twist the definition of "will" and "freewill" in the long run, the same thing you did with Romans9.

AkinwaleJJ, in the exodus of the Israelites, Who hardened Pharaoh's heart?

AkinwaleJJ:


This is where it calls for discernment on the part of the reader!
God only focus on his own plans, so he is able to see anybody having to do with that arrangement even before they're born. It's like you are planning to renovate and decorate your house, surely you can foretell that bricklayers, painters, interior decorators, tilers, plumbers, electricians will work there and you can also foresee disturbing conditions like rain, windstorm and disappointments from the labourers. Certainly you have to plan ahead of all this if you're wise.

So the success of God's plan is a certainty it's those coming into the arrangement that he is creating chances for that's why he is like foreseeing so much about the Jews because the Christ is to be born from that lineage, anybody whether positively or negatively going to do anything to affect his plans is his concentration.
When professional foretellers of events try to do the same they're dealing with demons who will manipulate events to prove they're also gods even when their own predictions has nothing to do with God's plan for the earth. That's why the Covid19 pandemic came upon all foretellers of events as a shock because all those demons have no power to see it coming.

1. Who or what agent is responsible for this Covid-19 pandemic?
2. Can you list those events God foresaw of the Jews?

MuttleyLaff:
responsible for permitting[b] Pharaoh harden his heart[/b], et cetera, God is not responsible for their bad behaviour, is not morally accounted for their behaviour, and they, you kkins25, Blabbermouth, every human being, including moi, all creatures/creation are answerable to God and not vice versa

MuttleyLaff:
This is typical of a question not full of common sense asked. Smh.
God didn't not frigging influence Pharaoh by hardening his heart. Pharaoh was a willing participant to hardening his heart up. God gave Pharaoh ten set of circumstances to make and let him soften his heart. Ten times is was given. Ten times Pharaoh refused. He squandered the all ten softening his heart opportunities.

wee you kee kwayet!!! common sense ko, cum on sense ni!

The LORD instructed Moses, "When you go back to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders that I have put within your power. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go.Exodus 4:21
Exodus 10:1 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials, that I may perform these miraculous signs of Mine among them…

that's how they will go up and down, and be spreading lies in the name of frigging yaweh

16: Pharaoh quickly summoned Moses and Aaron and said, “I have sinned against the LORD your God and against you. 17 Now please forgive my sin once more and appeal to the LORD your God, that He may remove this death from me.”

muttleylaff, read this verse again, read am well well.. now ask yourself; 'Do i know the common sense i am talking about atall'? here we have[b] Pharaoh willingly [/b]repenting of his sins, now go back to my thread and ask yourself this frigging question;
"If it was me, and some random man claiming to be sent by a mighty God i have no idea of- comes to me to demand i release my slaves, would i believe him? Why didn't the almighty God talk to me directly?"
if you have the common sense you think you have, i'm sure you would also take pharaohs stance. Even in the animal kingdom, the cuckoo birds use other birds as slave to feed their young.

You didnt detect the irony in that "God didn't forsee it but He prepared a LAMB slain from the foundation of the world" shadeyinka comment

i did, hence "interesting choice of words"

Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

I don't see how it answers the question.

kkins25, here are a few for you to order on:
1/ How we are able to keep, track time and know time, huh? i should call students of mine to answer this your question. want to mock me ehn?
2/ Do you know why we have seasons?

3/ How we are able to know when to plant, sow and harvest?

This is an interesting question. we have superior senses to observe weather patterns. But- But birds, buffalows, etc can actually- in advance know of the changing environmental conditions even before the signs of the heavens are revealed. Maybe our 'senses' are not so superior. And indeed it is true.

4/ FWIW, illumination, is not the only purpose of the sun, moon and stars, you know kkins25, hmm?

illumination? hahah.. who said so in the first place? the Suns purpose is not to illuminate. it is simply a radioactive phenomenon that produces Electromagnetic waves which the life on earth has adapted to.
so you see, its not its purpose to illuminate, it is more of we -life- been that saw an opportunity to get a better view of things and took it-we did.

5/ You do know kkins25, that the moon's purpose, is not only for mere mark time, the seasons and days and years, erhn, lmso?

who is teaching you science self? there is no fuqing 'purpose'. chances have brought the moon in a condition that has kept it where it is- following the principles of unified theory which we know nothing of for now. Hold on though, the moon in the right position can be used to summon or channel the energy of celestial beings. Is that where you are getting too ehn?

6/ Are you aware of the effect what an absent moon would do to Earth and its motion about its axis, huh?

The solar system exist because each entity or celestial bodies in it contributes independently a gravitational, magnetic, etc effect on each other. consequently, this varying effects compounds and results to what we now know as the solar system. so if one entity is out of place, the compound effect would be affected.
Such beauty!!

7/ This now hypothetically speaking, if the sun, miraculously should disappear, do you have any idea, how long, we will survive for, before getting frozen to death because the sun is no longer there to give out its heat energy, hmm?

sure, it takes a whooping 8 minutes for the suns light to get to us. so we would not immediately notice it is gone until after about 8 minutes or so. when the sun disappears we would now be subject to other cosmic forces.
As you know the sun is the 'center of gravity' for our solar system, its disappearance would consequently lead to the displacement of all the celestial powers under its command. in fact it would be another tug of war, there would be another battle in heaven as the angels of God battle for power and the throne of God the Sun.

So to answer your question, it depends on the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of the sun.
1) if it explodes: if this occurs then our death would be much more quicker. the shock wave may forcefully displace the planets, increasing the chances of colliding with the moon and closer celestial bodies. asteroids trapped in the earths orbit may fall into the earth creating another scene of dinosaur extinction. only this time around we are the dinosaurs. all this could happen within a week, month, years, decades, centuries, millions of years even. the point is, we would die quicker and a much more horrible death. lets hope it doesn't even form a black hole.

2) disappear: now this is more preferable. They would be a battle for the throne, the largest planets may start to use their power to slowly pull the other ones, if we are lucky and the earth does not start spinning upside down, sideways down and all sorts. we may crash into other planets, we may become moon to the giant planets, or cosmic force may just blow us into another solar system entirely, but we would be dead by then.

In both scenarios, the absence of the sun is not the problem, its the conditions of the earth.

suppose the earths spin is somewhat stable:
Sun light is needed for Primary production of foo- of course by plants but also by photosynthetic microbe which are by far the largest and greatest producers of Oxygen with respect to body mass and volume ratio.

microbes which depend on the solar energy would be the first to die, i.e if they are unable to make food from the light coming from other stars in the galaxy. lower plants would follow because they are less adapted for stress and are mostly annual plants. organisms that rely on microbes and other lower plants have a few days to live. This is as a result of the increasing depletion of oxygen. no oxygen means the earth is getting loaded with CO₂. Lets skip and go to men, Men and a few other organisms will survive for a while.

After a week, the temperatures would approach 0 degrees. but we have that in northern hemisphere and southern hemisphere already, so its not new. we could simply burrow underground or rely on fuel for heat...

8/ Do you know what causes high and low sea tides, huh?

more mockery!!

9/ Do you understand what "Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority." - Acts 1:7 means?

And yet,the ants know when summer would transition to spring. i should slap Jesus!

10/ Or even understand why the "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." - Matthew 24:36, being that Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ is Yah and vice versa, lmso

so can He have different will from the father? bladdermouth.

I can go on, into deeper and more details on biblical cosmology and/or celestial mechanics, but wouldn't, as it will turn the discourse into information overload

im listening.. another thread perhaps.

Fyi, the word "time" has so many meanings and has so many usage forms, aside how used in Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 above, lmso. Now here is the interesting point kkins25, the moon, created by God, is used to tell time with, lmso, many people also know we can tell the time and the season by the stars. Case in point, the Magi, used a sighted star to tell the birth of Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, or ''it wasn't time for the fig, to bear fruits'' or even, the time given in the Luke 13:6-8 narrative

true but Yaweh is used to tell time. since he is always visible in the sky and takes 12 horus to reach the peak before descending again into death to be resurrected.

Genesis 1:1-

light? when the sun or stars were yet to be formed? clap for yourself.

"Genesis 1:13-19[/color]more jargons from the primitive man who was trying to deduce why the stars exist. we have made corrections, it would be wise of you to appreciate the effort of the primitive wise men of old, and study more of einstein. einstein is just a modern man with better description of how planetry body works. luckily for us he came at a time when people were no longer naming wise men as prophets who bring instructions from the mouth of God. Einstein, newton, hawkings, are all prophets of God greater than Moses, Solomon, etc.

Psalm 136:7-8

The moon doesnt mark seasons. it is the relationship of the earth with celestial bodies that determine seasons.

Time: what is time?
shadeyinka defines time as that which separates events into before and after. of course, my friend muttleylaff would subcribe to this definition since it is the same one i thought my students some 3 years ago in physics class.

what shade and muttley fail to put into consideration is the true relativity of time. so when you both define time, be sure to add "as relative to" whatever criteria or planet.

so kindly clarify time for us

kkins25:


wee you kee kwayet!!! common sense ko, cum on sense ni!
that's how they will go up and down, and be spreading lies in the name of frigging yaweh

muttleylaff, read this verse again, read am well well.. now ask yourself; 'Do i know the common sense i am talking about atall'? here we have[b] Pharaoh willingly [/b]repenting of his sins....

MuttleyLaff will rather twist God's word than admit that Everyone does not have absolute freewill.
Check Romans 9, Paul brought up the account again and explained the purpose for which God hardened Pharaoh's heart. Preemptively, he asked a question he was sure the people will want to ask him, "Will you ask me, why does He (God) then find fault? For who hath resisted his will (who can Go against his orchestration)?" (Romans 9:19)
I tendered all these to MuttleyLaff and all He could say was "Romans 9 was all about God's power bla bla bla"...
Romans 9 shot the belief in " absolute free will dead"!

so can He have different will from the father? bladdermouth.

How can the same person have different will? Can a line be straight and curved at the same time?
MuttleyLaff claimed Jesus is God (perhaps God 2). However in a twist of event, God 2 wanted (willed) something different from God 1. God 1 (willed) something different from God 2.
What makes a person a person? If blabbermouth were to be cloned (100%) into 3,000 persons, the whole 3,000 will have the same will!
Trinity will be MuttleyLaff's stumbling block. (He did not/could not attend to my question in that other thread. My brotherly advice will be for him to back down here, if he forces it, well...)

Blabbermouth:

MuttleyLaff will rather twist God's word than admit that Everyone does not have absolute freewill.
Check Romans 9, Paul brought up the account again and explained the purpose for which God hardened Pharaoh's heart. Preemptively, he asked a question he was sure the people will want to ask him, "Will you ask me, why does He (God) then find fault? For who hath resisted his will (who can Go against his orchestration)?" (Romans 9:19)
I tendered all these to MuttleyLaff and all He could say was "Romans 9 was all about God's power bla bla bla"...
Romans 9 shot the belief in " absolute free will dead"!

How can the same person have different will? Can a line be straight and curved at the same time?
MuttleyLaff claimed Jesus is God (perhaps God 2). However in a twist of event, God 2 wanted (willed) something different from God 1. God 1 (willed) something different from God 2.
What makes a person a person? If blabbermouth were to be cloned (100%) into 3,000 persons, the whole 3,000 will have the same will!
Trinity will be MuttleyLaff's stumbling block. (He did not/could not attend to my question in that other thread. My brotherly advice will be for him to back down here, if he forces it, well...)

hahahha
Thats why you and i,are here bro.
to make sure these people dont bend the bible to suit their beliefs.its funny how the bible bends like metal and is moulded into the imagination of the smith. it makes the bible such a powerful weapon in the hands of good and evil

kkins25:
Time: what is time?
shadeyinka defines time as that which separates events into before and after. of course, my friend muttleylaff would subcribe to this definition since it is the same one i thought my students some 3 years ago in physics class.

what shade and muttley fail to put into consideration is the true relativity of time. so when you both define time, be sure to add "as relative to" whatever criteria or planet.

so kindly clarify time for us

It seems you have a problem with this definition of time. Do you have a more precise definition? Of course, time, even though is the measure of interval between two events has to be measured from the SAME frame of reference.

Blabbermouth:
AkinwaleJJ, in the exodus of the Israelites, Who hardened Pharaoh's heart?

It was a metaphoric utterance, nobody hardened his heart. The God of the Jews wanted his name to go far and near, the only way this could be done is when Pharaoh lives and remains obstinate at heart. If God killed Pharaoh overnight the Israelites will leave without all those plagues having to come upon Egypt, so he allowed the stubborn ruler to keep living so that everything that happened will be declared and the fear of this deity will be upon all the inhabitants of the earth. Is that not the reason why most religionsists wants to relate with that same God today? Each nation has their own God but they've all thrown the names of their Gods into the trash bin because of the God of Moses, the God that delivered the Israelites!

Blabbermouth:

1. Who or what agent is responsible for this Covid-19 pandemic?
2. Can you list those events God foresaw of the Jews?

Covid19 resulted from scientific researches that's more advanced than our age.
They tried to travel faster than their shadows.
Don't pull my legs please, the reason why all this Pastors are trying to prophesy is because they've read about how Israelite prophets foretell events but ask any pastor to relate a Bible prophecy that has nothing to do with the Jews or God's future prospect for our planet.

Blabbermouth:
Lee ma oo (in brother Shaggy's voice)
You will never never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever (× infinity) be able to prove that that EVERYONE has ABSOLUTE FREEWILL!

Dont be in a hurry to meet your nemesis. I am banking on both you and kkins25 not to lose your bottle when I do send out the invite for you both to come participate in the life and death guinea pig test experiment, lmso.

Blabbermouth:
JESUS: I don't want to take this cup, let it pass over me
Almighty: Take the cup son.
JESUS: I will place your will above mine. If you want me to take the cup, your unending love for me (and mine for you) has compelled me to place your will above mine, Father, I will take it.

I am 100000% sure you must have at one time or the other in your so far short life on earth had at least an occasion to psych yourself up. Has the penny now dropped for you, lmso

Blabbermouth:
I'm 100% sure you will go the extreme and twist the definition of "will" and "freewill" in the long run, the same thing you did with Romans 9.

"¹⁸Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
¹⁹Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
²⁰Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
²¹Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
²²What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known"
- Romans 9:18-22 KJV

Let me break down Roman chapter 9 for you my beloved brother friend. It is just as I earlier had advanced to you before, in a couple of our earlier chatroom interactions, we had together. You see, I am sure that, if the shoe were on the other, and we have a reversal role, were it was you when it was time for Pharaoh to enter the world. You knowing ahead how wicked and all "bad mama jama" Pharaoh will be, you will definitely, not allow him to come into existence, and this mainly because you already know that he is bad news, but God isn't like us with a human being reasoning. God can handle and take anything that throws up. Besides, as I have always said in the past, every creation has the fundamental right to be allowed to come into existence and express itself/himself/herself. This is what Roman chapter 9 is talking about, it is talking about the sovereign choice of God and nothing at all, about the base choice of mortal human beings. I will slow down here and pause, so to give enough time to read this comment thoughtfully and to digest it well enough.

Listen, just go click on this link to read the entire Romans 9 contextually. You will see that it is talking about God's prerogative, about God's choice, about Him making choices https://biblehub.com/nlt/romans/9.htm. It is God's Sovereign Choice. He decided to allow Pharaoh, with his warts, pimples, acne and all to come into existence, though He knew Pharaoh is a bad apple. Like I said, if it was somebody like you being God, you wouldn't allow Pharaoh come into the world because of what you already know about him. This bit here is the naked truth, you dont like seeing, hearing or listening to, lmso

You tried bringing forward Romans 9:19, as if you are trying to dispute that Pharaoh was a "bad egg" like as if, you want to contest that now, lmso.

Blabbermouth, you also keep wailing and bleating about: "God said: I will harden Pharaoh's heart" and I have humbly asked you, to explain, how, in no uncertain terms, did God harden Pharaoh's heart, but what is your response. Your response Blabbermouth, was passing the buck, telling me, to go ask the Hardener. Imagine that. Smh, lmso.

MuttleyLaff:
[s]Dont be in a hurry to meet your nemesis. I am banking on both you and kkins25 not to lose your bottle when I do send out the invite for you both to come participate in the life and death guinea pig test experiment, lmso.

I am 100000% sure you must have at one time or the other in your so far short life on earth had at least an occasion to psych yourself up. Has the penny now dropped for you, lmso

"¹⁸Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
¹⁹Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
²⁰Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
²¹Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
²²What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known"
- Romans 9:18-22 KJV

Let me break down Roman chapter 9 for you my beloved brother friend. It is just as I earlier had advanced to you before, in a couple of our earlier chatroom interactions, we had together. You see, I am sure that, if the shoe were on the other, and we have a reversal role, were it was you when it was time for Pharaoh to enter the world. You knowing ahead how wicked and all "bad mama jama" Pharaoh will be, you will definitely, not allow him to come into existence, and this mainly because you already know that he is bad news, but God isn't like us with a human being reasoning. God can handle and take anything that throws up. Besides, as I have always said in the past, every creation has the fundamental right to be allowed to come into existence and express itself/himself/herself. This is what Roman chapter 9 is talking about, it is talking about the sovereign choice of God and nothing at all, about the base choice of mortal human beings. I will slow down here and pause, so to give enough time to read this comment thoughtfully and to digest it well enough.

Listen, just go click on this link to read the entire Romans 9 contextually. You will see that it is talking about God's prerogative, about God's choice, about Him making choices https://biblehub.com/nlt/romans/9.htm. It is God's Sovereign Choice. He decided to allow Pharaoh, with his warts, pimples, acne and all to come into existence, though He knew Pharaoh is a bad apple. Like I said, if it was somebody like you being God, you wouldn't allow Pharaoh come into the world because of what you already know about him. This bit here is the naked truth, you dont like seeing, hearing or listening to, lmso

You tried bringing forward Romans9:19, as if you are trying to dispute that Pharaoh was a "bad egg" like as if, you want to contest that now, lmso.

Blabbermouth, you also keep wailing and bleating about: "God said: I will harden Pharaoh's heart" and I have humbly asked you, to explain, how, in no uncertain terms, did God harden Pharaoh's heart, but what is your response. Your response Blabbermouth, was passing the buck, telling me, to go ask the Hardener. Imagine that. Smh, lmso.[/s]

This happens to be the first time your long write up made no single sense.
You can always reply whenever you are relaxed and very free, there is no point to hold here.

Blabbermouth:
[s]This happens to be the first time your long write up made no single sense.
You can always reply whenever you are relaxed and very free, there is no point to hold here.[/s]

[img]https://s1/images/MuttAmin.gif[/img]
Truth is a bitter pill to swallow

MuttleyLaff:

Truth is a bitter pill to swallow

[img]https://s1/images/MuttAmin.gif[/img]
You placed sentiments and warped reasoning before undiluted scriptural truths.
1/ You still cannot explain how God's spoken words created a physical universe
2/ How the same person (as you claimed) have different will (in the same setting and condition)
3/ Why Jesus' will was not done
4/ You are trying to hard to twist Romans 9 (that's so JW of you)

Blabbermouth:
MuttleyLaff will rather twist God's word than admit that Everyone does not have absolute freewill.
Check Romans 9, Paul brought up the account again and explained the purpose for which God hardened Pharaoh's heart. Preemptively, he asked a question he was sure the people will want to ask him, "Will you ask me, why does He (God) then find fault? For who hath resisted his will (who can Go against his orchestration)?" (Romans 9:19)
I tendered all these to MuttleyLaff and all He could say was "Romans 9 was all about God's power bla bla bla"...
Romans 9 shot the belief in " absolute free will dead"!

You see how unashamedly dishonest and desperate you are. You forgot that I still have the whole transcript of our chatroom discussion, and no where in it did I ever say: "Romans 9 was all about God's power ..." You fall my hand big time, for stooping so low in misquoting me this badly, merely for the sole reason on gaining cheap point(s). Smh. No wonder YOU didnt want me to publicly share the whole transcript, lmso.

Blabbermouth:
How can the same person have different will? Can a line be straight and curved at the same time?
MuttleyLaff claimed Jesus is God (perhaps God 2). However in a twist of event, God 2 wanted (willed) something different from God 1. God 1 (willed) something different from God 2.
What makes a person a person? If blabbermouth were to be cloned (100%) into 3,000 persons, the whole 3,000 will have the same will!

God was not clone though, hmm. God from divinity projected into become human. It was the humanity side of God conversing with the divinity side of God, Himself. You guys, meaning you and that kkins25, have quite a lot learning more to do, smh lmso.

Blabbermouth:
Trinity will be MuttleyLaff's stumbling block. (He did not/could not attend to my question in that other thread. My brotherly advice will be for him to back down here, if he forces it, well...)

Trinity has got nothing on me. I have killed trinity, cut trinity up, carved and dissected it to investigate and see what its fed on. Fyi, trinity is a means to an end, it isn't at all, the end itself. Trinity is a stop pit, if you know what that means, lmso.

Swoosh, I know this comment has gone right over your head, as if like a couple of Naira Airforce MiG fighter jets flying past, lmso.

Blabbermouth:
[s]You placed sentiments and warped reasoning before undiluted scriptural truths.
1/ You still cannot explain how God's spoken words created a physical universe
2/ How the same person (as you claimed) have different will (in the same setting and condition)
3/ Why Jesus' will was not done
4/ You are trying to hard to twist Romans 9 (that's so JW of you)[/s]

You dont disappoint with your trash post, do ya, even after all explanation previously given you, smh

Romans chapter 9 contextually read, is scripture my friend, it is plain in sight. Facts jumps out from the chapter as literally as they get, so please as I keep advising you, dont play the JW card with me. I am JW-atheist, lmso.

MuttleyLaff:
You see how unashamedly dishonest and desperate you are. You forgot that I still have the whole transcript of our chatroom discussion, and no where in it did I ever say: "Romans 9 was all about God's power ..." You fall my hand big time, for stooping so low in misquoting me this badly, merely for the sole reason on gaining cheap point(s). Smh. No wonder to didnt want me to publicly share the whole transcript, lmso.

Hence the "Bla bla bla" I added to it. I did not go back to the chatroom and I can't remember what you said word-for-word.

God was not clone though, hmm. God from divinity projected into become human. It was the humanity side of God conversing with the divinity side of God, Himself. You guys, meaning you and that kkins25, have quite a lot learning more to do, smh lmso.

If it were cloning, it would have even been better. However the one God did (as you claimed) is much more perfect and thus, the onus is still on you to explain how the projection is different from the image in the projector. Jesus' will was different from God's, how can the same person have different will? What makes a person a person.

Trinity has got nothing on me. I have killed trinity, cut trinity up, carved and dissected it to investigate and see what its fed on. Fyi, trinity is a means to an end, it isn't at all, the end itself. Trinity is a stop pit, if you know what that means, lmso.

Okay, we shall see.

Swoosh, I know this comment has gone right over your head, as if like a couple of Naira Airforce MiG fighter jets flying past, lmso.

Yes, you are right. I almost had an heart attack when I saw your name after I clicked "mention". By the way, I'm scared as to how you will put me in my place very soon. I'm cold sir Muttley, turn up the heat.




Hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha

MuttleyLaff:
You dont disappoint with your trash post, do ya, even after all explanation previously given you, smh

Keep it cool sir, thou art blazing hot today.

Romans chapter 9 contextually read, is scripture my friend, it is plain in sight. Facts jumps out from the chapter as literally as they get, so please as I keep advising you, dont play the JW card with me. I am JW-atheist, lmso.

Okay.
If time permits, I will take the romans 9 verse by verse.

Blabbermouth:

Keep it cool sir, thou art blazing hot today.
Okay.
If time permits, I will take the romans 9 verse by verse.

A JW-atheist he called himself!

Well i've told you that i myself wasn't born a JW, i converted after seeing the truth with my mind's eyes. So whoever hates that group can't make any sense to you. WHY?
Because you're subjecting all kinds of teachings to scrutiny and under such circumstances falsehood can't stand!

CC: MuttleyLaff
Read slowly, it sure needs some seconds to sink in

A BRIEF EXEGESIS ON THE BOOK OF ROMANS CHAPTER 9:9-23
9. For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac
11. (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
12. It was said unto her, the elder shall serve the younger.

Commentary: As at the time Rebecca conceived her first born (i.e Esau), even before they were born it was said unto the woman “the elder shall serve the younger”. This is not as a consequence of the evil done or a reward of the good deeds done neither was it by foreknowledge but that the purpose of God according to election might stand. So, Esau did not do anything to qualify him to serve his younger i.e Jacob. Also, Jacob did not do anything worthy for his elder brother to serve him, it was all of God who calleth.

13. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated
14. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

Commentary: The fact that Esau was actually predestined by God to serve his younger comes of as bias to any average person. Why should not God let things pan out on their own? Is it not unrighteous for God to meddle into the life and destiny of Esau? God forbid

15. For He saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy.

Commentary: The Lord God himself made note vividly of how a lot of things actually does not depend on the pen, but on the writer who holds the pen. That you are saved is not because you have a particular quality that makes you special, your salvation did not come because you were born to a particular household, your salvation never came because you were rich, your salvation came because God drew you to Christ.
John 6:44 –No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day
What precedes all is not your will, what precedes all is not your works (or your potential), what precedes all is the mercy of God. After the mercy has been shown by the Lord God, then your will and your works (potentials and all) come into play.

17. For the Scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth

Commentary: (The writer was giving a scriptural example of the point he raised in verse 15 and 16)
The Lord God moved to manifest himself as God of every man, and achieve his eternal long purpose and desire – He didn’t directly call unto the attention of everyone on earth, he started with a single man (Abraham). Then from a single man, He moved to a family. Then from a family, His relationship expanded to a nation (all for the purpose of intimacy, worship, redemption/salvation).
Israel were God’s own people right from the day he has vested his jealousy upon Abraham, however He permitted Egypt to take Israel captive that his purpose be achieved (for there was a lot of chiseling and work to be done in order for man’s redemption with God to take place). God is spirit, man was flesh – how can man who is spiritually dead understand the true purpose and content of salvation from the spiritual realm (this is where true salvation is), is it not wise for man (that understands the language of the flesh) to grasp salvation from a flesh realm before advancing to the spiritual salvation. Thus, there was need to first establish salvation from the physical (to prep. Mankind) then move on to the real salvation which is spiritual.


1 Corinthians 15:45-46
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual

Thus, the captivity of Israel and their enslavement to Egypt was a physical representation of how we are subjected and made slave to the power of death. The exodus of the Israelites was thus a physical representation of how we are saved by the outstretched, Mighty, fearful, saving, I-am-that-I-am arm of God. Thus there was need for a vessel that will serve as the model of man’s subjection to the power of death, and this was the boot and role Pharaoh filled. As the Lord himself saith – For this purpose (as explained above) have I (God) raised thee(Pharaoh) up, that I (God) might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Footnotes: Did God achieve His purpose? Hell Heaven Yes!
Exodus 14:13 – And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD, which he will show you today: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen today, ye shall see them again no more forever (Death (Egypt) is/was swallowed up in victory, halleluyah!)
-------
Exodus 14:31 – And Israel saw that great work which the LORD did upon the Egyptians: and the people feared the LORD and believed the LORD, and his servant Moses. (Now, the whole of Israel knew that they had a God that be for them, they Believed him and also got a revelation (a taste actually) of Who he is (Revelation of “who God is” is one of the most important pillar of salvation)

By God’s hardening of Pharaoh, all these were achieved;
1. Salvation was set in motion
2. God’s name was made manifest and glorified in all Israel, Egypt and the entire neighborhood (it was an important factor Israel banked upon in many occasions)
3. Isreal (God’s own people) Believed and feared the LORD

IF, If Pharaoh had not filled these boots (if he was not hardened or had willfully given up immediately), all these would have resulted:
1. Salvation won’t be set in motion
2. The Israelites may fall into another captivity pretty much soon
3. Israel won’t know the LORD, Believe Him and Fear him and many more which time will not permit, if we were to make mention.

Thus, it was 100% necessary and important that Pharaoh was hardened.

18. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth

Commentary: The writer of the book of Enoch said “I observed the constellations of the heavens, the luminaries, how everything happened and was in order and nothing irregular in appearing”. To whom he will have mercy on, God has his reason and purpose and to whom he will harden, God has his reason and purpose.

19. Thou wilt say then unto me, why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Commentary: The writer was like – I know you will want to ask me – Why does God find fault then, is it not his work that certain things happened the way they did? Them born anybody well to alter God’s orchestration?

20. Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21. Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?

Commentary: The writer himself was answering the question he was so sure the readers will ask him – It is not wise to take such up as a case against God, who has the say as to the kind of form the lump of clay will take? The potter or the clay? What does the clay know, how far does he see, can it mould itself by itself? No! The Potter is the one with the expertise here and He (alone) surely knows for what reason he will make a vessel unto honor and another vessel unto dishonor. If the basket (assume it is a work of art) prides itself for being the vessel used in taking home the harvest of the rain, will/can it measure up to an earthen pot when a vessel is needed for storing the rain water? If every vessel were made a basket, which one will the potter use to take in water when it rains?

22. What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction;
23. And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Commentary: As it was said in the book of revelations – all things were created for thy pleasure .

Blabbermouth, until, you are able, capable, equipped to state clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt how exactly, precisely, practically and particularly did God harden Pharaoh's heart as you're over and over again, constantly wailing, bleating, shouting upandan the forum, then all the above is just you playing to the gallery and pretend eye service.

Just explain in such a way that a 2 year old can understand how God hardened Pharaoh's heart? This shouldn't be a big deal or complex thing for you to describe now

PS: I lost my reply to your other post making reference to Genesis 5:3, when resource brought up the Mac wheel on me but I will asap re-do or re create my response back to it all over again

MuttleyLaff:
Blabbermouth, until, you are able, capable, equipped to state clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt how exactly, precisely, practically and particularly did God harden Pharaoh's heart as you're over and over again, constantly wailing, bleating, shouting upandan the forum, then all the above is just you playing to the gallery and pretend eye service.

Just explain in such a way that a 2 year old can understand how God hardened Pharaoh's heart? This shouldn't be a big deal or complex thing for you to describe now

I'm sorry MuttleyLaff, I don't owe you that one. The onus was not on me in the first place, so when you asked "how did God harden Pharaoh's heart?", I gave you my condition(s):
Tell me
A. How Did God spoken words create a physical universe

AND/OR

B. The diverse ways God can harden a human's heart

Until then, either you settle with the plain words " I will harden Pharaoh's heart " or know within you (sure, you might not want to admit because of ego and preconceived notions) that your view was unscriptural and false.

Have a Nice Day.

Blabbermouth:
I'm sorry MuttleyLaff, I don't owe you that one. The onus was not on me in the first place, so when you asked "how did God harden Pharaoh's heart?", I gave you my condition(s):
Tell me
A. How Did God spoken words create a physical universe

AND/OR

B. The diverse ways God can harden a human's heart

Until then, either you settle with the plain words " I will harden Pharaoh's heart " or know within you (sure, you might not want to admit because of ego and preconceived notions) that your view was unscriptural and false.

Have a Nice Day.

I never said you owe me anything, but you dont seem to understand you own it to yourself to come out to state clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt how exactly, precisely, practically and particularly did God harden Pharaoh's heart as you're over and over again, always and constantly wailing, bleating, shouting upandan the forum. All the above is just you playing to the gallery, doing pretend eye service and buying for time, lmso. Mic drop.

MuttleyLaff:
I never said you owe me anything, but you dont seem to understand you own it to yourself to come out to state clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt how exactly, precisely, practically and particularly did God harden Pharaoh's heart as you're over and over again, always and constantly wailing, bleating, shouting upandan the forum. All the above is just you playing to the gallery, doing pretend eye service and buying for time, lmso. Mic drop.

As usual, you chicken out when the going gets tough.
If only, if only God had not plainly said the words "I will harden Pharaoh's heart"... Ohh, if only Paul had penned down Romans 9 to show that the " I will harden Pharaoh's heart" was just some fancy speech or figure, we won't have someone here desperately twisting scriptures to suit his absolute freewill idea.

Ciao Muttley, you've lost your sauce on this hardening and freewill discussion.

ediama:


Dont let your heart be worried dear.

The ways of God are not our ways.

Trust in God and love him.

Love what He loves and hate what He does.

God have mercy on us.

Where is God
The Sky,My Heart?

ediama:


I dont know if you speak based on what is written in the Bible or based on your church doctrine.

You ask a question i made reference to revelations. i told u wat i read, that it maybe that God already has chosen his own based on my own undstding.

But u keep making reference to me, am i Bible? make your reference to the bible pls.

I dnt like it.

lol wahala

MuttleyLaff:
Did you understand what "know the end from the beginning" means and implies, hmm?

What make you think that God doesnt beforehand know what in the next 5 minutes you'll be doing next, huh? What do you take God for. What does God mean to you? How do you see God. Do you see God has losing control? Or He is never all time in control? He has lost the plot? Is He incapable, inefficient, and inept? Or maybe He hasn't a clue what He is doing? What really is your grievance my dear friend. What is bugging you?

SEEKING THE TRUTH AND KNOWLEDGE OF THIS WORLD!

AvsGot007:
SEEKING THE TRUTH AND KNOWLEDGE OF THIS WORLD!

"Getting wisdom is the most important thing you can do or get.
Whatever else you get, get insight
(i.e. with all thy getting, get understanding, intelligence, and/or develop good judgment)"
- Proverbs 4:7

Truth is always strange. Stranger than fiction.

Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom, is knowing, understanding and good judgment, not to put it, the tomato, in a fruit bowl or fruit salad. Wisdom comes from wise thinking, good information/knowledge processing, and then good judgement

Seeking the truth and knowledge of this world? What truth? Why seeking knowledge of this world and not knowledge of God, the Creator of this world?